Strib recruiting article

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Ole

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http://www.startribune.com/sports/236317501.html

Looks like the muck and sleeze part of recruiting has opened up shop in MN.
Read this and tell me this Levi guy isn't being paid by "grants" from SEC schools or their boosters.
This must be the "outside" influence Jones has pulling him away.
Wow, makes you wonder how long this guy has been here, and how many top prospects he's poisoned over the years.
 

I think it helps explain the "nationalizing" of recruiting as these advisers try to match the kids with opportunities wherever they may be and not just in their own geographic proximity. Must make it difficult for some staffs to actually reach recruits because they have to go through another relationship beyond the parents in some instances.

Like Iceland, I'm curious to know if these guys get any under the table crap from the institution that lands a kid.
 

50PoundHead said:
I think it helps explain the "nationalizing" of recruiting as these advisers try to match the kids with opportunities wherever they may be and not just in their own geographic proximity. Must make it difficult for some staffs to actually reach recruits because they have to go through another relationship beyond the parents in some instances.

Like Iceland, I'm curious to know if these guys get any under the table crap from the institution that lands a kid.
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Not to mention the coaches relationship with their players.
I think the fact that Jenkins, Grant, the Chanhassen coaches, and Scanlon all basically are not happy speaks volumes.
There's a reason this guy wants to take a "tour" of kids to the south, it's because he can get paid by schools or their boosters down there without anyone really questioning it. It's a cattle call tour, coaches take a look at the kids, pick out a few they might want to develop relationships with, and pay this guy through secondary sources.
Paid "by the grace of god" or "grants", riiiiight.
 

Sounds like Wille Lyles and Oregon. Good thing the NCAA put the hammer down to stop this LOL.
 

Well, the parents of Cornell, Jones, Ragnow, etc, are clearly fine with this guy's involvement. To some degree, I get it - as a parent, I'd like for my young sons to have options some day as well, whether its just for academics, sports, whatever. But at the same time, I don't foresee my wife and I having any desire whatsoever to involve some random third-party/guy to take my kids on pseudo political campaign-like buss tours across the country to advertise them to get 25 offers instead of 15 (or whatever).

So, I'm sure the kids and their parents have their reasons (and probably ones that I can't even imagine), but for me, without having any other information other than what's in this article, this just seems kind of gross.

At the risk of being classified as outdated (I'm in my mid-thirties, yet this would probably a fair assessment), times have definitely changed.
 


Here's what I don't understand.

This guy's working for a non-profit --- so why doesn't the company have to disclose where the money is coming from?

Why isn't the IRS or the NCAA all over this already?
 

50PoundHead said:
I think it helps explain the "nationalizing" of recruiting as these advisers try to match the kids with opportunities wherever they may be and not just in their own geographic proximity. Must make it difficult for some staffs to actually reach recruits because they have to go through another relationship beyond the parents in some instances.

Like Iceland, I'm curious to know if these guys get any under the table crap from the institution that lands a kid.
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Or, maybe even boosters? Just a thought...
 

Well, in general if it makes Mike Grant angry, I'm probably in favor of it.

That said, this sort of thing is the reality of college recruiting today, and it's been this way in the south for a long time, where football is more of a year round sport (they have spring football in high school), like basketball and hockey are here.

This sort of thing has been common in hockey for years. Most of the top players don't put on the skates for their high school because of the limitations on number of games. They go play for junior teams like Shattuck, or developmental teams in places like Grand Rapids and Omaha, living with host families.

Same with hoops. Basketball players put far more emphasis on AAU teams than their high school teams (it's really hurt the sport too).

This is reality today.
 

It's a bit different from past times due to the promoting himself a running a service, but persons of these types, known as street agents, have been around for years. There used to be a guy in Detroit named Vic Adams who would try to steer local high school hoopsters to Missouri, Doug Smith being the most notable one. In Rick Telander's "Heaven Is A Playground", about time he spent in mid 1970s Brooklyn following the local streetball scene, one of his associates was a local street agent type who tried to get players connected with college scholarships. These street agent types tend to fill voids left by others, whether that's the high school coach, the parents, or someone else. We haven't seen it locally as much due to this state turning out far fewer major football and basketball prospects until recent years.
 




I understand a potential need for an athlete to look for help in finding the right camps to go to and help putting together a highlight tape and getting that out. My questions is, if the person is looking out for the best interests of the player why is this guy only pushing south? There are a number of big time programs withing 6 hours. He wants to take the kids on a bus tour, but only through the south?

It obvious. He is getting paid by southern interests. That should send up a red flag for the parents. That means he is not really looking at the kids best interests, but the people he is representing. What if the kid really needs the discipline of an Airforce. Shouldn't the Handler point them that direction?
 

The street agent is from Florida. He likely has connections to recruiters and coaches in that part of the country, so that's why he pushes his players to that region. He has people willing to listen when he may not have a willing ear elsewhere. If he was from Chicago, he'd probably have lots of Big Ten and Big XII connections.
 

Seems folks (at least from reading the Strib comments section) are kind of split on whether what Bradley is doing is on the up and up. My impression is that it's not, mostly because those who speak well of the guy are either athletes or the athlete's parents. As such, I would say check back in a few years and then see what their impressions of Bradley are.

Right now, he seems great because he's helping these kids get out there. But there's the rub. And honestly, I'm not sure I'd trust the words of either a kid or their parents right now. Of course they like him; he's helping them out and even if something corrupt was happening, they wouldn't care as long as they got a schollie out of the deal. Sounds a lot like the same BS we hear all the time ("He's just trying to help the kids") when it comes to "mentors" or "advisors". Then, magically it turns out, that, well, he wasn't as much of a pure soul as we all thought. Need more background on this one, especially since the finances are so hush, hush.
 



Sports_Realist said:
The street agent is from Florida. He likely has connections to recruiters and coaches in that part of the country, so that's why he pushes his players to that region. He has people willing to listen when he may not have a willing ear elsewhere. If he was from Chicago, he'd probably have lots of Big Ten and Big XII connections.
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He's a washburn alum, he started working for a Florida based company 3 years ago.
 

I thought the article did a good job of saying what can be said about this type of case without getting into legal trouble. Obviously the parents think this is fine, which makes me wonder how objective they are. It's obvious to me that money is changing hands here, the difficult part is proving it. It's not a big enough deal for law enforcement to become involved so there is little that governing bodies like the NCAA can do. It's kind of like proving the Mafia exists. Many people are ignorant about organized crime, but that is how this thing operates - under the radar and under the table. Yuck.
 

wels0081 said:
Here's what I don't understand.

This guy's working for a non-profit --- so why doesn't the company have to disclose where the money is coming from?

Why isn't the IRS or the NCAA all over this already?
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It's an entity of a non-profit. I am not sure what the difference is, but I am hard pressed to find any information about Unsigned Preps other than their website. If you look up the parent organization (All Sports Community Service, Inc.), you can find a ton of information including their filings: http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/orgs/profile/593184150?popup=1#forms I'm not sure if a charity organization has to list who donated to them. Also, it's amazing how far the "income" of this charity has dropped since 2006ish.
 

There's a video of Jones' dad and Maynard's mom included in the article.
Jones' dad basically said the agent has opened doors and given Jeff exposure, that he'd seen many kids not get recruited simply because they went to a city school.

BS. Kids are found by schools if they have talent nowadays. They also have HS coaches to help them with this. Very few get left behind simply by not being seen.
Jones had exposure as a freshman, he had offers from BCS schools as a Soph.
This stinks to high heaven.
 

e.bigelow, yes, by extension the boosters as well as the institution. Good catch. I should have added that.

And I agree with TCF that the parents probably would be okay with this, at least initially, for the most part. Their kid goes from off the radar to on it and some of the exposure can likely be laid at the feet of the street agent or whatever the proper term would be. We always wonder about kids who don't have video up at one of the recruiting sites, and my guess is that these guys help get that recruiting package together to get the kid early exposure. But that's the benign part. It likely gets a bit messier when the kid (and his parents) start to zero in on a decision.
 

Ole said:
There's a video of Jones' dad and Maynard's mom included in the article.
Jones' dad basically said the agent has opened doors and given Jeff exposure, that he'd seen many kids not get recruited simply because they went to a city school.

BS. Kids are found by schools if they have talent nowadays. They also have HS coaches to help them with this. Very few get left behind simply by not being seen.
Jones had exposure as a freshman, he had offers from BCS schools as a Soph.
This stinks to high heaven.
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Not saying I agree with all of this stuff but your point isn't necessarily true. A ton of kids get 'left behind'. Lets use MN for example. Eric Murray said he didn't even think he'd play college football until MN offered him a scholarship. Why? Because he was playing at an inner city school in Milwaukee. He played WR and rarely touched the ball despite being a great athlete. He was basically ignored completely and the only reason he's playing B10 football is because one of his coaches decided to take him to the MN camp and he caught their eye. Now he's one of the better CBs in the conference. If his HS coaches had made it a point to get their kids out there he likely would've been attending a number of regional camps/combines and could very well have been a highly recruited guy. Devondre Campbell also didn't play the recruiting game and barely got a look despite looking like an NFL athlete a year removed from high school. Poock is 230 and looks and moves like a B10 LB already but he didn't play the recruiting game. A lot of HS coaches simply don't put much thought/energy/effort into getting their kids exposed to different schools. They may send out some tape sure but there are hundreds of D1 and D2 schools and they're all getting bombarded with tape and if the kid doesn't jump out quickly it gets tossed in the pile or the email gets deleted. I coached varsity a few years back in IL at a school that had a good amount of raw talent (inner city type). The HC was a great guy and he did a lot for the players but even they didn't really get out to any camps or combines for the most part they didn't get much help with it either. Remember Kill and Co make a living finding guys that look and move like the guys at the big schools but were completely overlooked. Murray, Campbell, Cochran, etc all could put on the [insert helmet school] jersey and fit right in. So in a place like MN that doesn't get much attention from recruiters I certainly think there's a gap and a number of kids that may be able to play CFB that aren't getting attention, especially MAC level kids.
 

My thoughts, I think it is interesting that the parents and athletes are okay with these guys making money off them to get the kids exposure and a free ride but they are not okay with the NCAA making money off them when they are providing the free education and way more exposure than the guy in the article can provide.
 

I don't think we're that far away from doing away with High School sports entirely. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but the winds are blowing strongly in that direction.
 

MRJ said:
Right now, he seems great because he's helping these kids get out there. But there's the rub. And honestly, I'm not sure I'd trust the words of either a kid or their parents right now. Of course they like him; he's helping them out and even if something corrupt was happening, they wouldn't care as long as they got a schollie out of the deal. Sounds a lot like the same BS we hear all the time ("He's just trying to help the kids") when it comes to "mentors" or "advisors". Then, magically it turns out, that, well, he wasn't as much of a pure soul as we all thought. Need more background on this one, especially since the finances are so hush, hush.
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If that's the case, and everyone is playing this game, then who exactly is hurt by this? The "integrity" of the game? Because if that's it, we're being incredibly naive by thinking that is even a thing. And if it's something else, I guess I just don't see it.
 

Gopherprof said:
If that's the case, and everyone is playing this game, then who exactly is hurt by this? The "integrity" of the game? Because if that's it, we're being incredibly naive by thinking that is even a thing. And if it's something else, I guess I just don't see it.
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Everyone's playing the game, but you're assuming these "agents" are looking out for the interests of the athletes, not their own.
It's more likely to me that a program using these "under the table" tactics is probably not the best place for most kids, but they likely pay better or give better benefits to the agent.
In most kids' cases if they are needing an outside source for support and advice, they're not better off going to a college program far away from home with a hired mercenary mentality.
The SEC's "medical retirements", grayshirts, oversignings, forced transfers, etc are about as underhanded and damaging to kids as can be, but for maybe a kid from an unstable background even moreso.
As a former coach this stuff drives me insane, and I don't buy that coaches can't help kids recruitments.
Really? Scanlon at CDH can't handle big time recruits like Cornell?
Jenkins had Hageman with multiple helmet school offers. Jones and Maynard were too much for him to help advise?

This is about a slimeball taking advantage of kids and their too trusting parents.
I'm not naive about this stuff, I just don't agree it's best for any party but the middleman sleaze "agents."
 

Gopherprof said:
I don't think we're that far away from doing away with High School sports entirely. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but the winds are blowing strongly in that direction.
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Do tell. Insurance reasons? Cost? Overshadowing by junior programs/AAU?
I don't see that happening for a very long time, but there's no question that the best of the best aren't going to be playing for their high school in most cases for much longer.

I mentioned Shattuck-St. Marys earlier. Becoming a hockey junior program was just the start. They're doing the same thing with figure skating, soccer, lacrosse and I think golf. Basically becoming a boarding school for athletic training.
 

Gopherprof said:
I don't think we're that far away from doing away with High School sports entirely. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but the winds are blowing strongly in that direction.
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preposterous. The vast majority of high school athletes have no shot of playing in college at any level. The vast majority of kids who do get recruited aren't going to feel the same need as Rashad Vaughn or Maynard/Jeff Jones to transfer schools in the pursuit of more exposure.
 

discochris said:
Do tell. Insurance reasons? Cost? Overshadowing by junior programs/AAU?
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All of the above, plus the continual draining of public funding that goes towards education and the privatization of the education model in the United States. I've read compelling arguments in both directions. The same could also be said for college athletics outside of the BCS schools, although for some different reasons.
 

Ole said:
Everyone's playing the game, but you're assuming these "agents" are looking out for the interests of the athletes, not their own.
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No I'm not. But I'm also not assuming that anyone else has that kid's interest in mind either. Does the NCAA? **** no. My God, you want to talk about leaches. Look at the salaries of administrators and coaches in the NCAA who make almost all of their money off the unpaid labor of these kids. I'll take the worst sleazeball agent in the world over Mark Emmert any day of the week.

It's more likely to me that a program using these "under the table" tactics is probably not the best place for most kids, but they likely pay better or give better benefits to the agent.
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As much as I dislike the SEC, I don't really look at programs as "good" or "bad". There are programs that get away with this **** and there are programs that wish they could.
 

Well this explains why Jones almost transferred and why Maynard did. If I was Jenkins, I would be really pissed off. It will be interesting if this article leads to any NCAA investigations.
 

Gopherprof said:
No I'm not. But I'm also not assuming that anyone else has that kid's interest in mind either. Does the NCAA? **** no. My God, you want to talk about leaches. Look at the salaries of administrators and coaches in the NCAA who make almost all of their money off the unpaid labor of these kids. I'll take the worst sleazeball agent in the world over Mark Emmert any day of the week.


As much as I dislike the SEC, I don't really look at programs as "good" or "bad". There are programs that get away with this **** and there are programs that wish they could.
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Well, I guess that settles it then. We're down to choosing one level of sleaziness over another. If that's truly the direction we're headed, it's time to do away with college and high school sports altogether. It's this kind of thinking that has convinced scholarship athletes that they're actually victims while also presenting supposedly justifiable reasons for breaking rules left and right. In other words, moral relativism at its finest.
 

MRJ said:
Well, I guess that settles it then. We're down to choosing one level of sleaziness over another. If that's truly the direction we're headed, it's time to do away with college and high school sports altogether. It's this kind of thinking that has convinced scholarship athletes that they're actually victims while also presenting supposedly justifiable reasons for breaking rules left and right. In other words, moral relativism at its finest.
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I mean....yeah it sucks. I want to love college athletics and be a socially conscious person, but that's really hard to do both sometimes. Look around you.

I don't think scholarship athletes in football and basketball are victims, but they are certainly exploited by any definition of the word. To blame these handlers for exploiting them, or to blame the athletes for really only caring about making money, without taking a deep look at the entire system seems hypocritical at best. Are people upset because they legitimately care about the best interests of these children, or do they care because they think that we're losing recruits because of it? That's not a rhetorical question; I honestly don't know.
 

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