STrib: Proctor HS football season canceled amid 'serious misconduct' investigation



Ewert86PC

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Do you really think when people are talking about typical hazing of HS students they are talking about what happened at Proctor? This is simply just sexual assault and I can't even begin to wrap my head around how anyone would think that was even close to okay.

I just think this is such an extreme example that insinuating this is tolerated by outdate coaches, or that this even falls into the category of hazing is way off. Frankly, if "hazing" could range from taping someone to a goal post to brutal sexual assault, the word is simply not precise enough to have any meaning.
I don't think it is hazing at all. But I know this kind of sexual assault happened over 45 years ago and NO ONE TALKED ABOUT IT which is why it continues to happen and ends up construed as hazing.
 
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Bob_Loblaw

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I don't think it is hazing at all. But I know this kind of sexual assault happened over 45 years ago and NO ONE TALKED ABOUT IT which is why it continues to happen and be mus construed as hazing.
I agree that if this type of stuff absolutely needs to be talked about but I don't think construing it as hazing is helpful at all. Most people associate hazing with much less egregious activity (carrying pads, embarrassing teammates by singing, etc.), so to lump this in with that doesn't make sense. There are plenty of people who will defend some forms of hazing, no one would defend this. When you choose to lump something as egregious as sexual assault into the same category as being taped to a goal post, it's not only counter productive but it feels forced.
 

coolhandgopher

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I agree that if this type of stuff absolutely needs to be talked about but I don't think construing it as hazing is helpful at all. Most people associate hazing with much less egregious activity (carrying pads, embarrassing teammates by singing, etc.), so to lump this in with that doesn't make sense. There are plenty of people who will defend some forms of hazing, no one would defend this. When you choose to lump something as egregious as sexual assault into the same category as being taped to a goal post, it's not only counter productive but it feels forced.
As you’ve said Bob, it needs to be called what it is—and if the rumors are accurate, that’s sexual assault. Calling it less than that (hazing, as example) minimizes the incident and softens the seriousness of the incident and plays into the aggressors’ favor, both in this instance and potentially for the future. As some have speculated on here, if this is a long standing tradition in a community, it’s been framed as hazing or a rite of passage which makes it acceptable and doesn’t sully the reputation of the boys/community because it’s lack of specificity keeps the offense vague enough for it to happen again.

Btw, my heart breaks for this poor kid -victimized once and if the family stays in the community, forever identified by this instance and for some, the blame will be shifted onto him for bringing this negative attention to the community. (you can already see the seeds of this mentality in the comments made by the father of the name of Becker). Very likely the family may have to leave the town, if it’s within their means to do so. I hope he has caring and empathetic parents and family who will be able to access a good therapist.
 



GoForGold

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The coach and the top administrators should be fired. Not knowing is no excuse. They've lost control and the buck stops with them.
 


Slim Tubby

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If what happened to this kid, happened to mine, and you did it, you would be lucky to have middle age punishment meted out by me.

I would go full Babylonian on not only the perpetrator, but their family, their friends, their pets, their neighbors, their teachers, their church, etc.
You sound like Keyser Soze. 😀
 



Ewert86PC

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I agree that if this type of stuff absolutely needs to be talked about but I don't think construing it as hazing is helpful at all. Most people associate hazing with much less egregious activity (carrying pads, embarrassing teammates by singing, etc.), so to lump this in with that doesn't make sense. There are plenty of people who will defend some forms of hazing, no one would defend this. When you choose to lump something as egregious as sexual assault into the same category as being taped to a goal post, it's not only counter productive but it feels forced.
The problem is that 2nd Gen Feminism and beyond has staked out sexual assault as a "women's issue" where women are solely the victims and men the perpetrators. This causes them to focus solely on getting women to report their attacks. This then skews the statistics to further in their assertion.

All of this effort to keep sexual assault a woman's issue drives male victims out of the conversation. Feminists can back up their assertion by throwing their skewed statistics in the faces of critics and passively supporting the "boys will be boys" argument when it comes to male on male sexual assault. This makes male victims of sexual assault seem even more freakish and confused about their part in the event.

Added to this passive messaging about sexual assault comes the absolutely black and white, overtly binary, irrefutable message in any discussion of addressing it: men are rapists. This message puts off anyone from believing a male victim of sexual assault. "Why would a criminal be a victim? He must be a liar, too."

This creates a toxic conflict in the male victim that not only was he weak because of being overpowered but he must have wanted it all along because only males instigate sexual assault.

The male victim of sexual assault has been conditioned by pervasive feminist theology to essentially "Sit down, shut up and never talk about it, ever." That is how this kind of thing gets swept under the rug and pushed into the dark corner behind a large bookcase.
 

Ewert86PC

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Full disclosure time. I am a survivor of this type of assault. My explanation above of how this gets buried is a large chunk of my story.

I came to the University of Minnesota to get away from my toxic memory, rise above it and prove that living well is the best revenge.

During my time at the U, I was involved with a woman who was a double major in Psychology and Women's Studies. She was ardent about "believing the victim" of a sexual assault and not allowing the excuse of "boys will be boys".

She also part of a crowd that fawned over Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon. This was a group that created the trope that all sex with men is rape based on their writings.

Our relationship came to an abrupt end as the memories of my assault started breaking through my compartmentalization one day and in the middle of it I was dismissed with the statement "That sounds like normal teenage male behavior."

Additionally, I am an alumni of a fraternity on the U campus, so I know the gradations between probationary membership, hazing and assault. I'm continually perplexed at how the Greek System is targeted on hazing when other groups at the U "get away with it".

The fact that things like what happened on the Proctor High School football team still occur disgust me. Equally disgusting is the willfully ignorance and complicity of high minded people when confronted with these kinds of issues.

That's all I have for now. I hope my boss is forgiving of my lateness today because of writing up my posts here.

Ski-U-Mah
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Don't bother telling the usual geezers. They won't hear it.
Most of those initial studies have actually been debunked too. The old geezers are the ones that still believe it has no impact.

The biggest issue in the initial studies was that they asked the wrong question - "do violent video games lead to aggressive behavior?" Most of the extreme violent action was not done by otherwise aggressive children. They've actually been considerably more passive types.

The link - if there is one- seems to be with the isolating effect that porn/video games can have on a developing mind especially one often pumped full of mood stabilizing drugs. Obviously, we're talking about the margins here and no one is saying that every kid who plays video games or is on some sort of anti-depressant is going to shoot up a school. However, it's extremely rare to find a kid who commits one of these horrendous acts who isn't/wasn't on mood stabilizers and who doesn't video games 8+ hours per game (outside the norm of kids playing video games).
 

UpAndUnder43

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So do we KNOW what happened or is there a lot of speculation? I haven’t read through the entire thread so maybe I missed the information.

Regardless—this is disgusting. I feel awful for the victim(s) and hopefully those involved will be punished appropriately
 



MNVCGUY

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So do we KNOW what happened or is there a lot of speculation? I haven’t read through the entire thread so maybe I missed the information.

Regardless—this is disgusting. I feel awful for the victim(s) and hopefully those involved will be punished appropriately
Don't think there have been specific details released but seems to be a fair amount of solid information as to what took place to fill in a lot of the blanks.

The simple fact that they went ahead and cancelled the rest of the season so quickly says a lot about how severe it must be. If it was something minor they wouldn't have cancelled and put other teams in a rough spot.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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So do we KNOW what happened or is there a lot of speculation? I haven’t read through the entire thread so maybe I missed the information.

Regardless—this is disgusting. I feel awful for the victim(s) and hopefully those involved will be punished appropriately
Nothing official but apparently some news outlets have talked to students who saw the video:

 



A_Slab_of_Bacon

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The problem is that 2nd Gen Feminism and beyond has staked out sexual assault as a "women's issue" where women are solely the victims and men the perpetrators. This causes them to focus solely on getting women to report their attacks. This then skews the statistics to further in their assertion.

All of this effort to keep sexual assault a woman's issue drives male victims out of the conversation. Feminists can back up their assertion by throwing their skewed statistics in the faces of critics and passively supporting the "boys will be boys" argument when it comes to male on male sexual assault. This makes male victims of sexual assault seem even more freakish and confused about their part in the event.

Added to this passive messaging about sexual assault comes the absolutely black and white, overtly binary, irrefutable message in any discussion of addressing it: men are rapists. This message puts off anyone from believing a male victim of sexual assault. "Why would a criminal be a victim? He must be a liar, too."

This creates a toxic conflict in the male victim that not only was he weak because of being overpowered but he must have wanted it all along because only males instigate sexual assault.

The male victim of sexual assault has been conditioned by pervasive feminist theology to essentially "Sit down, shut up and never talk about it, ever." That is how this kind of thing gets swept under the rug and pushed into the dark corner behind a large bookcase.
I'm pretty sure whatever happens they can call it sexual assault no matter who is involved ... wtf?
 


Go4

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Full disclosure time. I am a survivor of this type of assault. My explanation above of how this gets buried is a large chunk of my story.

I came to the University of Minnesota to get away from my toxic memory, rise above it and prove that living well is the best revenge.

During my time at the U, I was involved with a woman who was a double major in Psychology and Women's Studies. She was ardent about "believing the victim" of a sexual assault and not allowing the excuse of "boys will be boys".

She also part of a crowd that fawned over Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon. This was a group that created the trope that all sex with men is rape based on their writings.

Our relationship came to an abrupt end as the memories of my assault started breaking through my compartmentalization one day and in the middle of it I was dismissed with the statement "That sounds like normal teenage male behavior."

Additionally, I am an alumni of a fraternity on the U campus, so I know the gradations between probationary membership, hazing and assault. I'm continually perplexed at how the Greek System is targeted on hazing when other groups at the U "get away with it".

The fact that things like what happened on the Proctor High School football team still occur disgust me. Equally disgusting is the willfully ignorance and complicity of high minded people when confronted with these kinds of issues.

That's all I have for now. I hope my boss is forgiving of my lateness today because of writing up my posts here.

Ski-U-Mah

thank you for sharing. i am sorry you had to go through this and i hope you have gotten any help that you need, as i'm sure we all would in your situation. stay strong.
 

Ewert86PC

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I'm pretty sure whatever happens they can call it sexual assault no matter who is involved ... wtf?
Nope. Not in the 80s & 90s. It was women versus men. Liberals were for the women and all the rights and conservatives were trying to do sociological brakestands. The roots of today's wingnuts versus libtard polarizing ideologirs come out of that.

Andrea Dworkins book Innocent was published in the late 1980s while I worked in a scif/fantasy/art/progressive bookstore near campus. I experienced wannabe feminists talking about Dworkin's shunning heterosexual behavior and saying it was rape. It was this extremism that prompted the feminists backtracking and redefining rape to be sexual assault. That way they could still hold their misandrist bias and appear inclusive.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Nope. Not in the 80s & 90s. It was women versus men. Liberals were for the women and all the rights and conservatives were trying to do sociological brakestands. The roots of today's wingnuts versus libtard polarizing ideologirs come out of that.

Andrea Dworkins book Innocent was published in the late 1980s while I worked in a scif/fantasy/art/progressive bookstore near campus. I experienced wannabe feminists talking about Dworkin's shunning heterosexual behavior and saying it was rape. It was this extremism that prompted the feminists backtracking and redefining rape to be sexual assault. That way they could still hold their misandrist bias and appear inclusive.
You're saying you read this all in a book?
 


short ornery norwegian

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Unfortunately, a lot of men see anal penetration as a 'gay' activity. so this may - I say may - be some idiots' macho idea of showing the victim that they are perceived as being gay. In this macho version of masculinity, the worst possible thing you can say about another man is calling him gay.

of course, in reality, a lot of gay men are far from the stereotypical view of gay men as effeminate. I knew a gay man who was a heavy-equipment operator for a highway construction crew. he was the president of the local Jaycees.
 


Ewert86PC

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You're saying you read this all in a book?
No, it was stuff she wrote while at the U and taught in class, that was complied into a book. I was present when off campus discussions of it occurred.
 

GoldenRodents

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Don't bother telling the usual geezers. They won't hear it.
The floodgates of deviance produce a flood of deviants. This is part of the great unraveling, obvious to the old and wise, invisible to the young and foolish.
 



GoldenRodents

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because people haven't been acting like a$$holes before the advent of published porn and video games.

gotcha. don't forget to blame rap music, hoodies, and social media apps.

oh noes! my poor child had no idea that inserting a plunger into another person's anus was wrong! BLAME THE [porn/videogames/rapmusic/socialmediaapps]!!!

362177.jpg
Blame the absence of ordered freedom
 




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