STrib: P.J. Fleck is fast and furious with scholarship offers – outside of Minnesota

[principalguy]

St. Thomas has also been successful with guys passed over by Minnesota - should we have taken all of them too? NDSU benefits from the fact that MN produces a decent amount of talent that isn't quite good enough to play in the Big Ten. Your comparison would be like Harbaugh getting ripped for missing on some Michigan kids that went to WMU and had a better record (although, this is closer because the MAC is a much better conference/level than whatever ndsu plays in).

That is silly, comparing UST to NDSU. NDSU is DI and beating teams at same level. For most of the last 10 yrs, the Bison were better than the Gophers.

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[Sparlimb]

That is silly, comparing UST to NDSU. NDSU is DI and beating teams at same level. For most of the last 10 yrs, the Bison were better than the Gophers.

Not really. NDSU has won a game against D1 several times over the last 10 years. But if you put them in the Big Ten they'd be under .500 every one of those years. They won at the level they are at, happy for them. But they aren't FBS and so they aren't the same level.

 

[PMWinSTP]

No driving. What he said is that it was their priority area but they would go beyond that when they needed to. Good pragmatic approach.

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So essentially recruit the best players Gophs can get...from wherever Fleck can get them.

 

[GopherHomer]

That is silly, comparing UST to NDSU. NDSU is DI and beating teams at same level. For most of the last 10 yrs, the Bison were better than the Gophers.

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Umm...no. ndsu likes to celebrate their occasional victory over a power 5 school, but the vast majority of their victories are against teams that the Gophers would be criticized for playing against. The bison were absolutely not better than the Gophers for the majority of the decade. There's a debate to be had for the Brewster era, but starting with Kill's 2nd season the Gophers were unequivocally better than ndsu. I hate to break it to you, but the Gophers would have won just as many titles as ndsu (and more decisively) if they got to play in their version of "D1."

It's like arguing that if the Twins AAA affiliate was more successful than the Major League club, that they were better. I'm happy for Grand Forks and all their success, but they have accomplished nothing of import...probably helped the tourism industry at Mt. Rushmore, though.

 

[boatwagon]

So essentially recruit the best players Gophs can get...from wherever Fleck can get them.

Ok, splitting hairs here but my read is more recruiting activity in target area (H.S. Coach meetings, follow-up visits, etc., etc.) & if 2 prospects are equivalent take the one in the target area.

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[btowngopher]

I don't care if Fleck never recruits anyone from Minnesota, just win.

 

[principalguy]

Umm...no. ndsu likes to celebrate their occasional victory over a power 5 school, but the vast majority of their victories are against teams that the Gophers would be criticized for playing against. The bison were absolutely not better than the Gophers for the majority of the decade. There's a debate to be had for the Brewster era, but starting with Kill's 2nd season the Gophers were unequivocally better than ndsu. I hate to break it to you, but the Gophers would have won just as many titles as ndsu (and more decisively) if they got to play in their version of "D1."

It's like arguing that if the Twins AAA affiliate was more successful than the Major League club, that they were better. I'm happy for Grand Forks and all their success, but they have accomplished nothing of import...probably helped the tourism industry at Mt. Rushmore, though.

You need to do some research...Any would be good.

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[dpodoll68]

Not silly. NDSU, etc all are teeming with upgrades that were left behind by the Gophers--all from the 6-8 hr rim that Fleck speaks.

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Yes, silly. You said regardless of perceived talent. Some years, there are at least that many players (and more) worthy of Big Ten offers. Some years, there aren't. You don't take enough to fill a proximity quota without accounting for talent, which is precisely what you're advocating.

 

[principalguy]

Yes, silly. You said regardless of perceived talent. Some years, there are at least that many players (and more) worthy of Big Ten offers. Some years, there aren't. You don't take enough to fill a proximity quota without accounting for talent, which is precisely what you're advocating.

Wisconsin Badgers, 60 Sconnies, 14 Radius players. 74 out of 122 from their radius. I'm sure many of their players are not "starred". What's the argument? I asked for 8-10. That's actually low. We simply don't recruit enough of our perceived marginal players, they play at schools like NDSU and develop into better than average players w pride. Iowa has had success doing the same. I'm just observing differences. Predicting what a 17 yr old will become is very difficult as it is. Proximity gives you a core of maturing athletes. Think of the names Rallis and Sherels. They came and did way better than projected. Think also of Carson Wentz, Robbie Grimsley, Marcus Williams and Billy Taylor. They didn't.

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[RatherBeGolfing]

Wisconsin Badgers, 60 Sconnies, 14 Radius players. 74 out of 122 from their radius. I'm sure many of their players are not "starred". What's the argument? I asked for 8-10. That's actually low. We simply don't recruit enough of our perceived marginal players, they play at schools like NDSU and develop into better than average players w pride. Iowa has had success doing the same. I'm just observing differences. Predicting what a 17 yr old will become is very difficult as it is. Proximity gives you a core of maturing athletes. Think of the names Rallis and Sherels. They came and did way better than projected. Think also of Carson Wentz, Robbie Grimsley, Marcus Williams and Billy Taylor. They didn't.

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Listen, I think all of us gets your argument. Yes ideally we'd find some more of those guys and there have been some that have been misses (mainly during Brewster's tenure - more to come in a moment). The point still stands though that you don't just offer kids from here because they're from here. You get as much talent. Quite frankly, Wisconsin produces a ton more in state talent than us and hell for a limited population size, Iowa also produces on a level relatively similar to us. It's a rant for another day but it's pathetic how little talent a state with a metro area of 3.5 million people produces. This is one of the 15 largest markets in the country and we'll have what 3 D1 scholarship offers out of here for '18? 3! And one of them just happened to move here (Sapp)

Also there's a difference between scholarship guys and walk-ons. PWO's are where I lean on giving the marginal MN prospects a chance. Go through wisconsin's roster or Iowa's and tell me how many of them are guys that scholarship guys vs. PWO's out of HS. We have a lot of MN kids on the roster but majority are walk-ons.

The NDSU examples you provided were exactly the wrong ones to prove your point btw. No one knew Wentz existed, Grimsley was 160 pounds and Turner and Williams both had serious academic issues if I recall correctly. If you want to point to obvious misses by the staff (this is where Brew comes in), Vraa, Crockett, and Olson were 100% D1 football players but we didn't offer for some reason.

 

[oldauggie]

Quite frankly, Wisconsin produces a ton more in state talent than us and hell for a limited population size, Iowa also produces on a level relatively similar to us. It's a rant for another day but it's pathetic how little talent a state with a metro area of 3.5 million people produces. This is one of the 15 largest markets in the country and we'll have what 3 D1 scholarship offers out of here for '18? 3! And one of them just happened to move here (Sapp)

I have thought about this myself and I think it is due to the high number of D1 hockey players we produce in MN. These D1 hockey players are excellent athletes and of course, they are not going to play D line or O line but they are safeties, QB's, running backs, WR's and linebackers if they choose to play football in high school. WI or IA does not have the youth hockey program we do here. No state does.

 

[RatherBeGolfing]

I have thought about this myself and I think it is due to the high number of D1 hockey players we produce in MN. These D1 hockey players are excellent athletes and of course, they are not going to play D line or O line but they are safeties, QB's, running backs, WR's and linebackers if they choose to play football in high school. WI or IA does not have the youth hockey program we do here. No state does.

Indiana produces a boatload of basketball players. Doesn't stop Indianapolis from producing 20+ power 5 kids each year

 

[oldauggie]

Indiana produces a boatload of basketball players. Doesn't stop Indianapolis from producing 20+ power 5 kids each year

So now you are comparing MN to Indianapolis!! Well I was comparing MN to WI and IA. Actually you would have to consider the entire state of MN and see that Indy alone produces more D1 football talent. I have no idea why we are lacking D1 football talent compared to Indianapolis. Similar size cities too.

 

[alchemy2u]

Not silly. NDSU, etc all are teeming with upgrades that were left behind by the Gophers--all from the 6-8 hr rim that Fleck speaks.

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Yes it is silly. Does NDSU have a few late bloomers that we wish we had on our team, of course. But you can not field consistently winning B1G team with the players from NDSU or St Thomas!

Don't worry, Fleck has closed the borders. We has kept all of the instate recruits from the last staff and he already has some very good instate commitments. He will offer all the instate players that he feels can help us.


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[Word]

So now you are comparing MN to Indianapolis!! Well I was comparing MN to WI and IA. Actually you would have to consider the entire state of MN and see that Indy alone produces more D1 football talent. I have no idea why we are lacking D1 football talent compared to Indianapolis. Similar size cities too.

I think hockey is the reason. MN also has a lot of basketball players. Maybe not as many as Indiana but still plenty. Here if you are a hockey player you commit to the sport at age 5 and most likely will never play football. I don't think many sports outside maybe gymnastics require that kind of commitment. Minnesota produces more D1 hockey players than any other state and almost double Massachusetts. I am OK with that though. I like it that we are a hockey state. And I played football and basketball as a kid.

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[boatwagon]

I think hockey is the reason. MN also has a lot of basketball players. Maybe not as many as Indiana but still plenty. Here if you are a hockey player you commit to the sport at age 5 and most likely will never play football. I don't think many sports outside maybe gymnastics require that kind of commitment. Minnesota produces more D1 hockey players than any other state and almost double Massachusetts. I am OK with that though. I like it that we are a hockey state. And I played football and basketball as a kid.

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Really good point. I never thought of that before. Makes complete sense.

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[highwayman]

I agree about hockey. Very few HS kids play multiple sports now. Hockey takes the best athletes away from football. It is a limiting factor unique to Minnesota.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I agree about hockey. Very few HS kids play multiple sports now. Hockey takes the best athletes away from football. It is a limiting factor unique to Minnesota.

Hell few younger kids play multiple sports....

I put my seven year old in say soccer and all the kids are all full time soccer with camps and year round stuff.

Hockey.... basketball... it's all the same thing.

It's like people have to do everything 110% for as far as I can tell no good reason.

 

[Rog]

I agree about hockey. Very few HS kids play multiple sports now. Hockey takes the best athletes away from football. It is a limiting factor unique to Minnesota.

Good thought -

Maybe some one here could compare our state with others as to how many Div 1 all sports scholarships we produce and then compare. Maybe we would discover that MN isn't all that bad.

 

[RatherBeGolfing]

So now you are comparing MN to Indianapolis!! Well I was comparing MN to WI and IA. Actually you would have to consider the entire state of MN and see that Indy alone produces more D1 football talent. I have no idea why we are lacking D1 football talent compared to Indianapolis. Similar size cities too.

My point comparing to Indianapolis was it's a relatively similar sized city that's also in a state where one sport is considered king and takes away athletes to focus on year round (hockey for us, basketball for them).

My overall point is that the MSP area drastically underachieves in producing power 5 D1 talent compared to other states wig similar population sizes, metro areas, and geography and there's a lot more reasons for it than hockey being a major focus here or the state starting to emerge as a basketball hotbed. Those factors don't help but kids play other sports all over the country. Hockey is unique in the time commitment but it isn't the sole reason