STrib: Imagine a Gophers hoops team with mostly Minnesota talent; Ben Johnson's close to making it happen

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Kids from MN hated Pitino which caused Pitino to only take kids from outside MN. If I have the correct logic
 

GopherPlaya said:
Other than Cam Taylor, Leuer & Jordan Taylor who are the big misses that chose Wisconsin? I feel like the players we have lost to them aren’t the kids pushing the needle for them. Davison maybe
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Good point, I think it actually feels worse than it has actually been in the last decade.

Steven Crowl had a good year as a sophomore and will be a big part of their success the next couple years. Tyler Wahl was good. And yes I strongly dislike Davison but he has been important to them over his last what, 9 years of eligibility? Nate Reuvers had a strong junior year before regressing. Jared Berggren had good junior/senior years, Mike Bruesewitz (not a big stats guy but he would be a fun player to cheer for).

I think football adds to this perception when we lose highly ranked kids to Wisconsin. Riley Mahlman (#1) and Jake Ratzlaff this year, Kaden Johnson (#1) last year. We've done pretty well in Fleck's tenure until now on those guys though.
 





Lincoln gopher said:
My trouble with Tubby was the many seasons the Gophers would be ranked going into the B1G season and just fall apart for various reasons. They would then have a losing conference record and be a bubble team after looking great for 1/3 of a season
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I hear that. The 2013 season (his last) was the first one where I watched the Gophers faithfully throughout the season. The second half of the season, after a 15-1 start, was sickening.
 

Spottedmuskie said:
Brusewitz. The 3 starters they had this year, Ruevers
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Reuvers isn’t a miss to me neither are the starters they had this year as well. Maybe Crowl counts but the other 2 aren’t moving needles. We also had Minnesota kids that were here who were better than Brusewitz in my opinion
 

ecoperson said:
I just typed something similar in a post as you were writing this. We need to make the U of M as desirable to out of state recruits to balance the urge for locals to leave the state to see the world or go to a blue blood program, etc.
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I feel like this contradicts what you just said... Maybe kids don't have a poor perception of the U of M, maybe they want to experience another location/ play for a blue blood/ go to a school that has better academics in a chosen area/ etc., no matter what their parents or anybody else wants. In my opinion, that's not a poor perception issue. I'm not saying none of them have a poor perception, I just don't think they all do.

The best solution would for Ben to turn the Gophers into a blue blood, that would take one reason for leaving off the list at least 😎
 

bfriedrichs10 said:
I feel like this contradicts what you just said... Maybe kids don't have a poor perception of the U of M, maybe they want to experience another location/ play for a blue blood/ go to a school that has better academics in a chosen area/ etc., no matter what their parents or anybody else wants. In my opinion, that's not a poor perception issue. I'm not saying none of them have a poor perception, I just don't think they all do.

The best solution would for Ben to turn the Gophers into a blue blood, that would take one reason for leaving off the list at least 😎
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Some fans struggle with a local recruit leaving the state and view that as a failure on the part of the head coach to not keep them here. The issue I have with that is that if the coach recruits the kid and he still chooses to leave I really don't know what more these fans expect the coach to do (this applies to any coach not just Johnson and the basketball program). They can't force a kid to stay home and play for the home state school.

In theory the home state team should have an advantage when recruiting a kid due to proximity but there are so many factors that go into recruiting. You laid out a bunch of them in your post. In every state there are going to be kids that grow up dreaming of playing for the home town team and there are going to be kids where that isn't really a draw.

Johnson will obviously recruit the state of Minnesota hard and do what he can to keep the best players home each year, but when it is all said and done his job is to build a successful program regardless of where the players come from.

If we are winning at a high level in a few years nobody will give a crap where the players are from.
 



GopherPlaya said:
Reuvers isn’t a miss to me neither are the starters they had this year as well. Maybe Crowl counts but the other 2 aren’t moving needles. We also had Minnesota kids that were here who were better than Brusewitz in my opinion
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They went across the border and beat us with those guys. Those guys were better than who we put out there. Can we beat Wisconsin next year with Wahl and Crowl? Hopefully, I would take Payne as a recruit over either of them yes, but they continue to beat us with our guys..
 

maybe this has been said before - but -

IMHO, fans generally don't worry about "how many MN kids are on the roster" IF the Gophers are winning.

But, if the Gophers are losing, AND they're not getting MN kids, that is when the real complaining starts.

because when a team is losing, people look for reasons (or excuses). and one common reason (or excuse) is "all the good MN players went to out-of-state schools."
 

short ornery norwegian said:
maybe this has been said before - but -

IMHO, fans generally don't worry about "how many MN kids are on the roster" IF the Gophers are winning.

But, if the Gophers are losing, AND they're not getting MN kids, that is when the real complaining starts.

because when a team is losing, people look for reasons (or excuses). and one common reason (or excuse) is "all the good MN players went to out-of-state schools."
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Without a winning history how many 4* guys like Garcia are even going to consider Minnesota, Tubby was a good recruiter when he first came to Minnesota, how many 4* or 5* guys did he get from other states. Getting the top in state recruits builds a foundation and a winning tradition making it much easier to recruit top level guys from other states. That is why I think recruiting Minnesota is important.
 

bfriedrichs10 said:
I feel like this contradicts what you just said... Maybe kids don't have a poor perception of the U of M, maybe they want to experience another location/ play for a blue blood/ go to a school that has better academics in a chosen area/ etc., no matter what their parents or anybody else wants. In my opinion, that's not a poor perception issue. I'm not saying none of them have a poor perception, I just don't think they all do.

The best solution would for Ben to turn the Gophers into a blue blood, that would take one reason for leaving off the list at least 😎
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This was in response to the post where a Gopher fan's kids wouldn't even have the Gophers in their top 5. Nearly all of the 5 star athletes that leave at least include the Gophers in their top 5. This Gopher fan's children would not which tells you a little about the brand perception among the community at large.

There are a million reasons to leave the state. There are another million to stay in the state. I won't rehash either list but we need to move the needle towards more reasons to stay.

The Gophers are not as revered as they should be in the MSP community and across MN. Media and fans have lost hope which has created a downward spiral that feeds upon itself. As I posted sometime in the last few days, Gopher fans can play a vital role in promoting the brand and increasing relevancy of the University and the athletic programs through simple things like wearing Gopher gear and making it a priority to introduce children and newcomers to this institution.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
maybe this has been said before - but -

IMHO, fans generally don't worry about "how many MN kids are on the roster" IF the Gophers are winning.

But, if the Gophers are losing, AND they're not getting MN kids, that is when the real complaining starts.

because when a team is losing, people look for reasons (or excuses). and one common reason (or excuse) is "all the good MN players went to out-of-state schools."
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I will add that it is exacerbated when we see lower rated MN kids (Roddy, Wright, etc) flourishing at programs that are NOT blue bloods. Pitino lost a lot of respect for chasing recruiting ratings but missing out on home grown talent that likely would have loved to represent the U.
 

ecoperson said:
This was in response to the post where a Gopher fan's kids wouldn't even have the Gophers in their top 5. Nearly all of the 5 star athletes that leave at least include the Gophers in their top 5. This Gopher fan's children would not which tells you a little about the brand perception among the community at large.

There are a million reasons to leave the state. There are another million to stay in the state. I won't rehash either list but we need to move the needle towards more reasons to stay.

The Gophers are not as revered as they should be in the MSP community and across MN. Media and fans have lost hope which has created a downward spiral that feeds upon itself. As I posted sometime in the last few days, Gopher fans can play a vital role in promoting the brand and increasing relevancy of the University and the athletic programs through simple things like wearing Gopher gear and making it a priority to introduce children and newcomers to this institution.
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I read your other post about buying Gopher gear and read others mentioning it. I agree 100% so I thought I would reply to this one. Just for laughs.

I just got a granddaughter overseas. I've been steadfastly buying Gopher onesies and little dolls and just whatever I can find on Ebay and other places. Nobody over there even knows what a Golden Gopher is, but she will be the poster child for the Gophers in a country that doesn't even follow American college sports. They will now!!!!!

I really need to block myself from Ebay when I'm drinking.

Maybe we can dream up some photo contest (of course there probably already is one and I don't know how find it). Although people are probably understandably reluctant to post pictures of their family on the internet.
 
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jovs said:
Without a winning history how many 4* guys like Garcia are even going to consider Minnesota, Tubby was a good recruiter when he first came to Minnesota, how many 4* or 5* guys did he get from other states. Getting the top in state recruits builds a foundation and a winning tradition making it much easier to recruit top level guys from other states. That is why I think recruiting Minnesota is important.
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Tubby definitely brought in 4* kids from out of state. Tubby has back to back top 25 classes his first 2 years. Colton, Ralph & Devoe were highly recruited kids along with Justin Cobbs. Even Bostick n Carter were highly regarded juco guys. Dre Hollins was a 4* as well
 

jovs said:
Without a winning history how many 4* guys like Garcia are even going to consider Minnesota, Tubby was a good recruiter when he first came to Minnesota, how many 4* or 5* guys did he get from other states. Getting the top in state recruits builds a foundation and a winning tradition making it much easier to recruit top level guys from other states. That is why I think recruiting Minnesota is important.
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If it was that simple Monson would have been successful
 

GopherPlaya said:
If it was that simple Monson would have been successful
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The MN recruits during the Monson years were not at the same level as the last decade or so. Maybe all of the stars need to align for this program to flourish.

I know Monson was hampered by the negative media following the academic scandal. The negative coverage made MN less desirable for recruits from all over the country AND their parents.

Funny that these scandals don't seem to phase NC and other blue bloods who commit cardinal sins!
 

cjbfbp said:
He still won 20 or more games in 5 of his 6 years and never had a losing season.

In 8 years, his successor had 3 seasons of 20 or more wins and 4 outright losing seasons.

Of his six seasons, four truly were middle of the pack (as the other poster said) in the conference.

Tubby may not have been the coach of anyone's dreams but he was significantly more successful than his predecessor and successor.
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Tubby was fired after winning an NCAA tourney game. Man it was fun having some expectations lol
 

ecoperson said:
The MN recruits during the Monson years were not at the same level as the last decade or so. Maybe all of the stars need to align for this program to flourish.

I know Monson was hampered by the negative media following the academic scandal. The negative coverage made MN less desirable for recruits from all over the country AND their parents.

Funny that these scandals don't seem to phase NC and other blue bloods who commit cardinal sins!
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I mean Monson got two 5 star recruits from the state. Both who were originally committed to blue bloods. Monson was proof of needing a system and needing to be a good teacher. Recruiting locally wasn’t his issue.
Even if we recruited MN better in the last 6-7 years, we still would’ve needed to be taught better. We still would’ve needed a culture built on skill development and defense.
 

GopherPlaya said:
Other than Cam Taylor, Leuer & Jordan Taylor who are the big misses that chose Wisconsin? I feel like the players we have lost to them aren’t the kids pushing the needle for them. Davison maybe
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You gotta say Wahl was a miss.....don't like watching him play but he is incredibly successful and it's clear he has worked on his game to carve out his niche.
 


Gopher_In_NYC said:
True, however, I would question the logic of citing them.

Are they examples of?

Inferiority
Mediocrity
Superiority

Compared To an Average Righty?
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I love ALL the lefties…….but if you insist on accomplished player…I’ll start with Eric Hill, Vincent Grier, Hoffarber, McBrayer, Coffey (2) and…..DAWSON GARCIA.
 
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ecoperson said:
This was in response to the post where a Gopher fan's kids wouldn't even have the Gophers in their top 5. Nearly all of the 5 star athletes that leave at least include the Gophers in their top 5. This Gopher fan's children would not which tells you a little about the brand perception among the community at large.

There are a million reasons to leave the state. There are another million to stay in the state. I won't rehash either list but we need to move the needle towards more reasons to stay.

The Gophers are not as revered as they should be in the MSP community and across MN. Media and fans have lost hope which has created a downward spiral that feeds upon itself. As I posted sometime in the last few days, Gopher fans can play a vital role in promoting the brand and increasing relevancy of the University and the athletic programs through simple things like wearing Gopher gear and making it a priority to introduce children and newcomers to this institution.
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High talent kids don't need a million reasons to stay home or leave the state to play. They have one primary influencer -- TV.

They watch college games on TV. They know who is high profile and Big Time. They have announcers and commentators on ESPN to tell them which teams and schools are hot stuff.

If you are not winning you are never a national brand. Kids who are highly recruited want national recognition. Good Minnesota talent is no different.
 

Dakota2 said:
High talent kids don't need a million reasons to stay home or leave the state to play. They have one primary influencer -- TV.

They watch college games on TV. They know who is high profile and Big Time. They have announcers and commentators on ESPN to tell them which teams and schools are hot stuff.

If you are not winning you are never a national brand. Kids who are highly recruited want national recognition. Good Minnesota talent is no different.
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There are numerous examples of high profile athletes who go to their hometown school and CREATE their own buzz. If you are P5, the national TV media will find you and feature you.

The point of my post was to always be searching for MORE reasons to stay versus go. They may not all be weighted the same but they add up. If the blue bloods have an insurmountable advantage, it would seem that the only viable alternatives are either folding the program or accepting mediocrity.

Quitting is not my style and I will keep searching for solutions and every advantage I can to help the program succeed. I can only hope that Ben and his staff have that same mindset.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
I mean Monson got two 5 star recruits from the state. Both who were originally committed to blue bloods. Monson was proof of needing a system and needing to be a good teacher. Recruiting locally wasn’t his issue.
Even if we recruited MN better in the last 6-7 years, we still would’ve needed to be taught better. We still would’ve needed a culture built on skill development and defense.
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Monson backed into both Humphries and Rickert.

Here's the story about Kris' switch from Duke to the U.

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/kris-humphries-bizarre-recruiting-process

I found this interesting article about Rick's Arizona to Minnesota saga.

https://arizona.rivals.com/news/fathers-mistakes-lead-to-disappointed-kids

As for Pitino's tenure as coach... he wouldn't have been left grasping for straws of skill development and defense each year had he set the table with some high quality MN recruits versus chasing the stars and then settling for leftovers.
 

ecoperson said:
Monson backed into both Humphries and Rickert.

Here's the story about Kris' switch from Duke to the U.

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/kris-humphries-bizarre-recruiting-process

I found this interesting article about Rick's Arizona to Minnesota saga.

https://arizona.rivals.com/news/fathers-mistakes-lead-to-disappointed-kids

As for Pitino's tenure as coach... he wouldn't have been left grasping for straws of skill development and defense each year had he set the table with some high quality MN recruits versus chasing the stars and then settling for leftovers.
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Similar to his cbj backing into Garcia.
 

ecoperson said:
Monson backed into both Humphries and Rickert.

Here's the story about Kris' switch from Duke to the U.

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/kris-humphries-bizarre-recruiting-process

I found this interesting article about Rick's Arizona to Minnesota saga.

https://arizona.rivals.com/news/fathers-mistakes-lead-to-disappointed-kids

As for Pitino's tenure as coach... he wouldn't have been left grasping for straws of skill development and defense each year had he set the table with some high quality MN recruits versus chasing the stars and then settling for leftovers.
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I know both of those stories pretty well is I’m that age. He still got them. Pitino backed into Coffey. Tubby backed into Royce. Still think you give them credit for them all.

As far as coaching, it don’t matter where they are from of you don’t build the foundation imo. A little bit of a chicken or egg convo probably.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
maybe this has been said before - but -

IMHO, fans generally don't worry about "how many MN kids are on the roster" IF the Gophers are winning.

But, if the Gophers are losing, AND they're not getting MN kids, that is when the real complaining starts.

because when a team is losing, people look for reasons (or excuses). and one common reason (or excuse) is "all the good MN players went to out-of-state schools."
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Having Minnesota kids in the program builds a fan base. If a guy from your high school is on the team, don't you cheer for him just a little bit louder? If a small town sends a guy to Minnesota, I can promise you that entire town will watch the games (and subsequently become fans). I agree the typical fan doesn't care but if you want to build support throughout the state, it is important to have Minnesota guys on the roster year after year.
 

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