STrib: How about a 64-team basketball bracket for Minnesota's big schools?

[BleedGopher]

per STrib:

One thing is certain as high school basketball section tournaments begin this week: Some schools that should be included in Class 4A championship conversations won’t have an opportunity to fulfill their aspirations.

Three girls’ teams and four boys’ squads ranked in the top 10, according to Minnesota Basketball News’ ratings, will be ousted in section play because geography forced them into section tournaments with other rated teams.

If the coaches had their way, it would be different. Responding to an inquiry by the Star Tribune of all 62 boys’ and girls’ coaches in Class 4A, 74% of the boys teams’ and 82% of the girls’ squads were in favor of seeding the teams 1 through 64.

The result would provide “more excitement throughout the three weeks in March similar to the NCAA tournament,” said Minnetonka boys’ coach Bryce Tesdahl, who also has coached at Class 4A schools East Ridge and New Prague.

Making that happen is another matter. The state’s basketball coaches associations and the Minnesota State High School League, which runs state tournaments, have been at odds for nearly 15 years on the issue.

Various proposals have advocated seeding based on won-loss record, Class 4A results, head-to-head results, results against top-ranked teams, home and away results, strength of schedule, computer rankings and various polls.

“This is an absolute no-brainer,” St. Louis Park boys’ coach David Breitenbucher said. “This would increase interest in Minnesota high school basketball to a level that would reach far beyond basketball fans.”

March mayhem: How about a 64-team basketball bracket for Minnesota's big schools?

Coaches see suggested format as fairer than current section setup

www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Travel could be a major issue. Take a school like Duluth East, Bemidji, etc and have them travel 3-4-5 times for games in the metro/southern MN. It could be a real challenge. Now, I don't know how that compares to sections but sections are well...your "section" of the state. Duluth East doesn't play @ Moorhead for sections, they could in this scenario.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Travel could be a major issue. Take a school like Duluth East, Bemidji, etc and have them travel 3-4-5 times for games in the metro/southern MN. It could be a real challenge. Now, I don't know how that compares to sections but sections are well...your "section" of the state. Duluth East doesn't play @ Moorhead for sections, they could in this scenario.

Agreed, they'd probably have to make some geographic adjustments to a bracket purely seeded on perceived team strength to prevent multiple bus trips of 3-5 hours, but the vast majority of the 4A schools are in or close to the Twin Cities. Travel would be a bigger problem if they wanted to expand to other classes.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Travel could be a major issue. Take a school like Duluth East, Bemidji, etc and have them travel 3-4-5 times for games in the metro/southern MN. It could be a real challenge. Now, I don't know how that compares to sections but sections are well...your "section" of the state. Duluth East doesn't play @ Moorhead for sections, they could in this scenario.

How about just have each section get it down to two teams each, then do a sweet 16 bracket seeding them 1 through 16? Then you'd have two local games for sure.

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

Duluth East doesn't play @ Moorhead for sections, they could in this scenario.

Duluth is like 4+ hours from Moorhead but only 2 hours+ from most metro schools.

I don't really see the current format as a huge problem (well, having 4 classes for basketball is absurd but that's a different argument).

High stake games in the section playoffs are awesome.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Duluth is like 4+ hours from Moorhead but only 2 hours+ from most metro schools.

I don't really see the current format as a huge problem (well, having 4 classes for basketball is absurd but that's a different argument).

High stake games in the section playoffs are awesome.

All games in sections are high stakes regardless because it’s win or go home.

Duluth to north metro is 2+ hours. To south metro it’s nearing 3, especially on a school bus. I’m just pointing out it is far different than footballs largest class which has either 1 (Brainerd) or O outstate teams.

 

[Powder]

Travel is NOT a major issue. Minnesota-Scores.net has already made this proposal. Including how not to material increase travel. Schools like Duluth East and Bemidji already have teams in their sections from the north metro. It would work very easily.

There is a way to set it up so Bemidji doesn't play at Rochester.

 

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

Aren't there only around 64 AAAA teams as it is?

MSHSL had it right 25 years ago with two classes and the Sweet 16 format.

 

[theczar]

favors all metro teams....

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Travel could be a major issue. Take a school like Duluth East, Bemidji, etc and have them travel 3-4-5 times for games in the metro/southern MN. It could be a real challenge. Now, I don't know how that compares to sections but sections are well...your "section" of the state. Duluth East doesn't play @ Moorhead for sections, they could in this scenario.

Having grown up and played sports in South Dakota, it's kind of funny thinking travel would be an issue for large Minnesota schools. Every trip we had was a minimum of 1 hour, with 2, 3, even 5 hour trips done on a regular basis.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Having grown up and played sports in South Dakota, it's kind of funny thinking travel would be an issue for large Minnesota schools. Every trip we had was a minimum of 1 hour, with 2, 3, even 5 hour trips done on a regular basis.

What you’re describing is how I grew up. Metro schools are definitely different.

My concern was the outstate schools having to travel much further for games.

 

[GFBfan]

Travel is NOT a major issue. Minnesota-Scores.net has already made this proposal. Including how not to material increase travel. Schools like Duluth East and Bemidji already have teams in their sections from the north metro. It would work very easily.

There is a way to set it up so Bemidji doesn't play at Rochester.

Then it’s not a true 1 - 64 seeded tourney.
The first time a metro school has to travel to Duluth, Moorhead or Rochester, they will cry and want to change the rules again.

 

[Gopherholefan]

Since a lot of the posts here are about travel for the 1 team from Duluth, let’s take a look at East’s REGULAR SEASON non-conference schedule they made for themselves:
@Blaine
@St.Francis
@Osseo
@Buffalo
@Brainerd
3day holiday tourney in Hibbing
Lets not believe the travel issue excuse. East has proven that they are willing to travel just to get regular season games. I’m sure a trip to the metro for a playoff game wouldn’t bother them. (I believe their current section tourney is held in North Branch, it wouldn’t be that much further to come to the metro)

 

[Powder]

Then it’s not a true 1 - 64 seeded tourney.
The first time a metro school has to travel to Duluth, Moorhead or Rochester, they will cry and want to change the rules again.

Just like the NCAA tourney, this one wouldn't be seeded 1-64. There would be pods/regions for sites and 'groups' of seeds. There would be 4 #1's, 4 #2's etc. It would not necessarily be where 1 plays 64, 2 plays 63. Any #1 could play any #16 depending on some geographical considerations.

The math has already been done on this and a proposal was given. It would use a committee to seed, just like the NCAA. They could use head-to-head, season record, QRF or whatever criteria to seed everyone.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I've always thought that you still keep sections, let them play their first round and then reseed 1-32. It gives the best of both worlds. It allows some poor teams to not have to drive hours to go get murdered, but allows for top teams to have their chance. Sure there will be the Prior Lake section where a 5 seed will be better than a 2 seed in the NW suburban section, but so be it. I don't feel bad. For AAA I said sections for the 1 round (8 team sections), then reseed to 4 regionals in St. Cloud, MSP, Rochester, and somewhere else probably metro based and play it out to the state tournament or reseed state wide at 16 teams for AAA. Keep AA and A the same. I get that it's not always the best, but imo HS sports has some regional aspects to it that should be kept.

 

[Powder]

One more thing to clarify regarding travel. It could be set with 8 host sites/regions that are geographically reasonable. They would not play at high seeds. This would help eliminate long travel (to the extent possible). This would also allow for the teams to scout each other because the next team would be playing before or after them at the same site.

 

[Go Gophs]

I'd rather they pare it down. Winning or getting to a state tournament in the top 2 classes is much easier than the lower classes is.

Instead of 8 sections with 8 teams each, make it 4 sections with 16 so they have to play by the same rules the smaller schools do.
Some of these sections teams win 2-3 playoff games and they are in state.

All this said, the 64 team format would be fun. I don't like though how it only focuses on the top class, like the rest of the state beyond the metro or large cities don't matter.