STrib: Gophers coach Ben Johnson called the Nebraska win the most important of his career

Donate To GopherHole
Dakota2 said:
For a bad program, the bar is set low. As we improve the bar will rise.

And maybe Ben was not just talking about a home win against Nebraska but instead, coming back to win the second half 52-26 without his best player. Context matters, as Ivy League Presidents like to say.
Click to expand...
And then there is this...we are in year three....when you only have 8 wins total, the significance of most important win is a little soft or hollow. But, it is a welcome win, no doubt.
 


Strength of schedule (and success or lack thereof) in early season nonconferencen opponents may be a greater predictor of ultimate success and invitation to the dance Than these early B1G games. As we all know, Izzo often plays one of the toughest nonconf schedules and usually pulls things together, but this is not one of his better teams. In sharp contrast, the Gophers have played a too-soft early season schedule (which clearly hurt them in the first half at OSU): and B Johnson has his best team. A lot of season to go...
 

Dakota2 said:
You’re a bit confused. The moment is the past week, Nebraska and Florida Gulf Coast. You are holding on to lhe last two years. Must be more comfortable for you.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? So to you the measure of a coach is 2 games in one season and not the whole of his resume? You realize we didn't beat murderers row there right...we had a great comeback against a team who is not exactly lighting the world on fire (the MSU win changes that claculus a bit but I am talking at the time of my post) and Florida friggin Gulf Coast. They aren't Incarante Word or anything but they aren't exactly top end power conference talent either. I enjoy the wins greatly, but they don't by themselves offset everything that came before.

It is possible to have 2 thoughts about the same team. Here let me show you:

1) The wins are awesome, I am happy for the team and Coach Johnson and I hope they lead to something better

2) He still has a long ways to go to prove he is a Big Ten caliber coach

You seem to believe that because the past week was awesome that negates the past two years. That is ludicrous. Maybe if he beat a couple good to great teams I could see that but Nebraska and Florida Gulf Coast? Sorry but that is as ridiculous as the people who thought Josh Dobbs should get a multiyear contract and be the future of the Vikings because he won a couple games when he got here. Sure those wins were fun as hell, but he was a journeyman backup QB for a reason and as we can all see he regressed back to the mean. Doesn't mean the games weren't awesome and I wasn't glad I watched them and give him all the credit in the world for them. But those wins don't all of a sudden make him a franchise QB. These wins dont make me think Coach Johnson is a Big Ten level coach. We need more evidence than that. Doesn't make the wins any less fun though.

TL;DR: the only one confused here is you.
 
Last edited:

UpAndUnder43 said:
All valid points. Besides your final paragraph completely contradicting everything you said. Nebraska didn’t beat Michigan St (team history has no value!) they beat a 4-5 team.
Click to expand...

Well, you got me there! But, the result shows that at least Nebraska should be considered competitive within the conference (I'm not sure how competitive yet).
 


Dave H said:
What are you talking about? So to you the measure of a coach is 2 games in one season and not the whole of his resume? You realize we didn't beat murderers row there right...we had a great comeback against a team who is not exactly lighting the world on fire (the MSU win changes that claculus a bit but I am talking at the time of my post) and Florida friggin Gulf Coast. They aren't Incarante Word or anything but they aren't exactly top end power conference talent either. I enjoy the wins greatly, but they don't by themselves offset everything that came before.

It is possible to have 2 thoughts about the same team. Here let me show you:

1) The wins are awesome, I am happy for the team and Coach Johnson and I hope they lead to something better

2) He still has a long ways to go to prove he is a Big Ten caliber coach

You seem to believe that because the past week was awesome that negates the past two years. That is ludicrous. Maybe if he beat a couple good to great teams I could see that but Nebraska and Florida Gulf Coast? Sorry but that is as ridiculous as the people who thought Josh Dobbs should get a multiyear contract and be the future of the Vikings because he won a couple games when he got here. Sure those wins were fun as hell, but he was a journeyman backup QB for a reason and as we can all see he regressed back to the mean. Doesn't mean the games weren't awesome and I wasn't glad I watched them and give him all the credit in the world for them. But those wins don't all of a sudden make him a franchise QB. These wins dont make me think Coach Johnson is a Big Ten level coach. We need more evidence than that. Doesn't make the wins any less fun though.

TL;DR: the only one confused here is you.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you if you're talking about an appraisal of a coach's overall tenure but, for me, that isn't the relevant question here. Johnson's last two years are water under the bridge. The important question here is whether his team will be good enough for him to merit a fourth year. Next year the question will be whether the team does well enough for him to merit a fifth year.

Scott Drew began his tenure at Baylor with four consecutive losing seasons (yes, I know they were on probation when he began) but he hasn't had one since. In his fifth year, the team went to the NCAA tournament. Baylor would have been foolish to base a retain or fire decision after five years on Drew overall record instead of the team's improvement. I certainly don't expect Johnson to develop into a Scott Drew but I think the similar logic should be applied.
 


Go4POV said:
Strength of schedule (and success or lack thereof) in early season nonconferencen opponents may be a greater predictor of ultimate success and invitation to the dance Than these early B1G games. As we all know, Izzo often plays one of the toughest nonconf schedules and usually pulls things together, but this is not one of his better teams. In sharp contrast, the Gophers have played a too-soft early season schedule (which clearly hurt them in the first half at OSU): and B Johnson has his best team. A lot of season to go...
Click to expand...

Yes, I read that all the time around here but let me ask you: How well did our tougher non-conference schedules the last two seasons prepare us for conference play in those years?
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Well, you got me there! But, the result shows that at least Nebraska should be considered competitive within the conference (I'm not sure how competitive yet).
Click to expand...

One game doesn’t show that. Gophers won @ Ohio St last year. Didn’t mean they were competitive within the conference.

I think the entire conference is pretty down. Purdue likely the best team but they also lost in Evanston so it’s a crap shoot. All the more reason to think the gophers can compete though.
 



TwistingMyMelon said:
Yes, I read that all the time around here but let me ask you: How well did our tougher non-conference schedules the last two seasons prepare us for conference play in those years?
Click to expand...

Was the non-conference tougher the previous two seasons?

Ben Year 1: played 2 P6 teams. Pittsburgh went 11-22, Mississippi St went 18-12.

Ben Year 2: played 3 P6 teams. Lost all 3 by double digits. DePaul went 10-23, Va Tech 19-15, Miss St went 21-13 none of those teams finished top 1/2 of the conference.

So I’m not sure your argument holds water because the non-conference schedule has remained soft.
 

bc2211 said:
Ha, does anyone truly believe a home win against Nebraska cleans the slate for any coach?

Meanwhile Gard is over the border holding off the hot seat by beating the number three team in the nation with an awful awful roster.
Click to expand...
Huh?
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Michigan St is under .500

Nice win for Nebraska I guess. Still don’t see the Huskers finishing 6th-10th in the conference.
Click to expand...
TV
Dave H said:
What are you talking about? So to you the measure of a coach is 2 games in one season and not the whole of his resume? You realize we didn't beat murderers row there right...we had a great comeback against a team who is not exactly lighting the world on fire (the MSU win changes that claculus a bit but I am talking at the time of my post) and Florida friggin Gulf Coast. They aren't Incarante Word or anything but they aren't exactly top end power conference talent either. I enjoy the wins greatly, but they don't by themselves offset everything that came before.

It is possible to have 2 thoughts about the same team. Here let me show you:

1) The wins are awesome, I am happy for the team and Coach Johnson and I hope they lead to something better

2) He still has a long ways to go to prove he is a Big Ten caliber coach

You seem to believe that because the past week was awesome that negates the past two years. That is ludicrous. Maybe if he beat a couple good to great teams I could see that but Nebraska and Florida Gulf Coast? Sorry but that is as ridiculous as the people who thought Josh Dobbs should get a multiyear contract and be the future of the Vikings because he won a couple games when he got here. Sure those wins were fun as hell, but he was a journeyman backup QB for a reason and as we can all see he regressed back to the mean. Doesn't mean the games weren't awesome and I wasn't glad I watched them and give him all the credit in the world for them. But those wins don't all of a sudden make him a franchise QB. These wins dont make me think Coach Johnson is a Big Ten level coach. We need more evidence than that. Doesn't make the wins any less fun though.

TL;DR: the only one confused here is you.
Click to expand...
Congratulations for writing a book to claim I believe something I do not and have never said. Specifically, I have never said a big come-from-behind win over Nebraska negates two previous years of futility. Neither I nor anyone else believes that.

What I do believe is that Ben Johnson knows better than you what is important to the future of the program. He said the Nebraska win was his biggest. Based on the way it unfolded I would agree.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I don't disagree with you if you're talking about an appraisal of a coach's overall tenure but, for me, that isn't the relevant question here. Johnson's last two years are water under the bridge. The important question here is whether his team will be good enough for him to merit a fourth year. Next year the question will be whether the team does well enough for him to merit a fifth year.

Scott Drew began his tenure at Baylor with four consecutive losing seasons (yes, I know they were on probation when he began) but he hasn't had one since. In his fifth year, the team went to the NCAA tournament. Baylor would have been foolish to base a retain or fire decision after five years on Drew overall record instead of the team's improvement. I certainly don't expect Johnson to develop into a Scott Drew but I think the similar logic should be applied.
Click to expand...
Apples and Oranges. Scott Drew got hired (he also was a HC already albeit 1 season) in late August. Literally 60 days before first practice. No portal and on probation for the first 7 YEARS of his tenure at Baylor. His argument for not being fired is totally different from Ben's argument. IF Ben somehow manages to stick around as the Gophers HC for a total of 7 years, I highly doubt (though do hope) that the Gophers are in the final 8 in March of that season.
 




BarnBurner said:
One game changes your opinion, even with two historically bad seasons?

My word.
Click to expand...
If you see signs of improvement don’t be frightened to acknowledge it. It’s not that scary.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Yes, I read that all the time around here but let me ask you: How well did our tougher non-conference schedules the last two seasons prepare us for conference play in those years?
Click to expand...
You seem to miss (on purpose? Not sure) my main point which was that December B1G wins tend not to be a predictor of ultimate season success. It is not realistic (or fair) to compare this year’s team to last year’s or the 2021/22 team. This hopefully will be the first year with a full roster
 
Last edited:


Go4POV said:
It is not realistic (or fair) to compare this year’s team to last year’s or the 2021/22 team. This hopefully will be the first year with a full roster
Click to expand...

All right, I'll concede that but I get sick of the whining about this nonconference schedule. It is what it is and there are only four games left of it. If this team is on the bubble at the time of the Big Ten tournament and doesn't get in the tournament because the weak schedule, then I guess there is reason to gripe about it but I think few, if any, people thought they would be in that position when the schedule was assembled.
 
Last edited:

TwistingMyMelon said:
I don't disagree with you if you're talking about an appraisal of a coach's overall tenure but, for me, that isn't the relevant question here. Johnson's last two years are water under the bridge. The important question here is whether his team will be good enough for him to merit a fourth year. Next year the question will be whether the team does well enough for him to merit a fifth year.

Scott Drew began his tenure at Baylor with four consecutive losing seasons (yes, I know they were on probation when he began) but he hasn't had one since. In his fifth year, the team went to the NCAA tournament. Baylor would have been foolish to base a retain or fire decision after five years on Drew overall record instead of the team's improvement. I certainly don't expect Johnson to develop into a Scott Drew but I think the similar logic should be applied.
Click to expand...
Well of course...but we can't really say that yet. That is why there is nothing wrong with him and the fans being happy with the last two wins. But those wins in a vacuum dont prove anything we need to know more.

The time to decide on Ben is when the season is over. (figuratively or literally) Like I said if these games are harbingers of things to come and the team does better than most of us think then we can argue about whether it is enough or not. But you have to take the past into account when discussing a year 4 otherwise you are just hiring on recency bias and that can backfire quick. But either way, 2 games in November/December against not so great competition are not enough to say he has turned a corner and is finally taking steps in the right direction unless they are followed by a few bigger wins (and continued success against lower teams) going forward which is what I was saying to Dakota because he asked if my opinion has changed yet...which it hasn't. (but could)

For now I am just enjoying any wins we get...at the end of the season hopefully we have a definitive answer one way or another.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
All right, I'll concede that but I get sick of the whining about this nonconference schedule. It is what it is and there are only four games left of it. If this team is on the bubble at the time of the Big Ten tournament and doesn't get in the tournament because the weak schedule, then I guess there is reason to gripe about it but I think few, if any, people thought they would be in that position when the schedule was assembled.
Click to expand...
The schedule is sad...but as you say it is what it is and the team just needs to go out and win. People will always find a way to complain anyways. I will worry about how the schedule looks when it is the reason we don't make the NCAAs not our overall record.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
All right, I'll concede that but I get sick of the whining about this nonconference schedule. It is what it is and there are only four games left of it. If this team is on the bubble at the time of the Big Ten tournament and doesn't get in the tournament because the weak schedule, then I guess there is reason to gripe about it but I think few, if any, people thought they would be in that position when the schedule was assembled.
Click to expand...
Certainly the hc would be in that position.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
All right, I'll concede that but I get sick of the whining about this nonconference schedule. It is what it is and there are only four games left of it. If this team is on the bubble at the time of the Big Ten tournament and doesn't get in the tournament because the weak schedule, then I guess there is reason to gripe about it but I think few, if any, people thought they would be in that position when the schedule was assembled.
Click to expand...
You haven’t seen me whining about the non-conf schedule. I just got on this forum. Since I started going to games when John Kundla was the coach, I’ve seen my share of cupcakes. 🙂
 
Last edited:



"STrib: Gophers coach Ben Johnson called the Nebraska win the most important of his career"

It's good to see Captain Obvious is making story assignments at the Strib.
 

same core as last year
TwistingMyMelon said:
Well, then, I guess Gard and his players really deserve a lot of credit for how well they've done so far with their lousy core.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I agree, but the same core was 9-11 last year in big ten.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom