STrib: College, prep football in spring is unpopular option, but things are heading that way

[builtbadgers]

Plenty of scenarios I’ve heard of and personally seen where someone was “assumed to have covid” but wasn’t tested and their symptoms match countless other illnesses. Plenty of terminally ill people that would have died of other illnesses, but were listed as covid deaths. I don’t buy the covid death toll stats

Do you believe the highly conditioned athletes that got it, sharing their story of the viciousness of the disease and the longevity plus the real possibilities of long term organ damage, diminished motor. The flu might last two days or not and many would play through it. That will not be the case with Covid.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Plenty of scenarios I’ve heard of and personally seen where someone was “assumed to have covid” but wasn’t tested and their symptoms match countless other illnesses. Plenty of terminally ill people that would have died of other illnesses, but were listed as covid deaths. I don’t buy the covid death toll stats

Good grief. Plenty the other way too.

 

[Ope3]

Well that’s if you believe all 133K deaths attributed to covid are actually from covid. I don’t at all.

It's quite possible that the 133K reported is substantially lower than the actual number (meaning the number is > than 133K).

Sorry for the edits, clarified.

 

[MplsGopher]

And this is the latest analysis of the Swedish experiment.
I hope you statements are irony and the rest of us are too dense to understand that otherwise they show abysmal ignorance.

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale (Published 2020)

Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.

www.nytimes.com

“They literally gained nothing.”

 

[Some guy]

[l

“They literally gained nothing.”

i think there is a major danger to judging strategies while they’re still playing out.
we are months if not years away from this being “over”

whether Sweden’s strategy was good economically or health wise can’t be written until it’s over. But the last 2-3 weeks of data does seem to imply it was a bad strategy.

Although, we will all notice right now flare ups in California, Arizona, Florida, etc

not a huge surge for New York right now as they open up.

What does that mean? Maybe nothing. But as things reopen, places where the disease has run its course may have different 2021s than places the virus hasn’t hit yet.

 

[PMWinSTP]

And this is the latest analysis of the Swedish experiment.
I hope you statements are irony and the rest of us are too dense to understand that otherwise they show abysmal ignorance.

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale (Published 2020)

Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.

www.nytimes.com

Thanks for sharing. Well laid out article explaining Sweden's decision and economic impact.

 

[Taji34]

Plenty of scenarios I’ve heard of and personally seen where someone was “assumed to have covid” but wasn’t tested and their symptoms match countless other illnesses. Plenty of terminally ill people that would have died of other illnesses, but were listed as covid deaths. I don’t buy the covid death toll stats

Also plenty of people who never who never were tested and *did* have COVID, but were assumed to have died because of something else. That argument goes both ways.

If someone who is terminally ill dies, but provably would not have died then if they hadn't caught COVID, what killed them? Sure, maybe the actual thing that killed them in the end their illness, but COVID was a direct factor in their death.

And yes, you can say without their terminal illness they would have survived COVID. That can also be true, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be counted as a COVID death. If anything it just means 1 death is counted in 2 categories because both things alone would not have killed that person, but together they did.

 

[MplsGopher]

Also plenty of people who never who never were tested and *did* have COVID, but were assumed to have died because of something else. That argument goes both ways.

If someone who is terminally ill dies, but provably would not have died then if they hadn't caught COVID, what killed them? Sure, maybe the actual thing that killed them in the end their illness, but COVID was a direct factor in their death.

And yes, you can say without their terminal illness they would have survived COVID. That can also be true, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be counted as a COVID death. If anything it just means 1 death is counted in 2 categories because both things alone would not have killed that person, but together they did.

Good post.

Note that these types of arguments can also be bypassed if we simply look at excess deaths.

We know how many people should be dying each week/month on average, over the last 5-10 years. There is no possible way to hand waive away the number of people who are dying, from any cause. If you’re dead, you’re dead.

The only change is cv19, and therefore the excess is directly attributable to that.


2020 is likely to have somewhere between 100k-200k excess deaths, maybe more. And the subsequent years will go back to the average, assuming vaccine starts hitting late 2020.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Good post.

Note that these types of arguments can also be bypassed if we simply look at excess deaths.

We know how many people should be dying each week/month on average, over the last 5-10 years. There is no possible way to hand waive away the number of people who are dying, from any cause. If you’re dead, you’re dead.

The only change is cv19, and therefore the excess is directly attributable to that.


2020 is likely to have somewhere between 100k-200k excess deaths, maybe more. And the subsequent years will go back to the average, assuming vaccine starts hitting late 2020.

Correct. Excess deaths reports for the period of March-May show a number well beyond expected, with only 65% of that excess attributed to Covid-19.

 

[Ope3]

Correct. Excess deaths reports for the period of March-May show a number well beyond expected, with only 65% of that excess attributed to Covid-19.

Thanks for posting that, I was trying to convey that type of info in post #63.

Aside from that, in terms of the original article/post about moving football to the spring, the way that MLB has started things, my confidence level of the Big 10 starting in the fall is really low.

 

[bigticket1]

Correct. Excess deaths reports for the period of March-May show a number well beyond expected, with only 65% of that excess attributed to Covid-19.

I've seen reports that in some states, deaths attributed to pneumonia are 3 or 4 times the normal rate. A lot of these are people that died at home and never had a Covid test.

 

[MplsGopher]

Correct. Excess deaths reports for the period of March-May show a number well beyond expected, with only 65% of that excess attributed to Covid-19.

Hard for me to believe that 35% of the excess is actually due to some other cause of death, even if official reported COD’s have been mistakenly (or dare I say, purposely falsely) attributed to other causes.

I wonder if some amount of it is something like: person dies at home of cv19, but their body isn’t tested or tests negative because the virus wore out quickly in a dead body, so they legally or by protocol can’t officially attribute it to cv19?

 

[PMWinSTP]

I've seen reports that in some states, deaths attributed to pneumonia are 3 or 4 times the normal rate. A lot of these are people that died at home and never had a Covid test.

Yes, that as well. 14 states during that period had less than 50% of excess deaths attributed to Covid-19.

 

[Maverick]

Hard for me to believe that 35% of the excess is actually due to some other cause of death, even if official reported COD’s have been mistakenly (or dare I say, purposely falsely) attributed to other causes.

I wonder if some amount of it is something like: person dies at home of cv19, but their body isn’t tested or tests negative because the virus wore out quickly in a dead body, so they legally or by protocol can’t officially attribute it to cv19?

More likely this is due to regular checkups, chemo treatments other treatments being delayed due to covid restrictions. Hospitals were emptied out in anticipation of the huge covid crush that never materialized.

 

[Taji34]

More likely this is due to regular checkups, chemo treatments other treatments being delayed due to covid restrictions. Hospitals were emptied out in anticipation of the huge covid crush that never materialized.

This only happened if the delaying the treatment/checkup did not increase the recipients chance of death, i.e. elective treatments/procedures. To claim the delay of elective treatments/procedures lead to deaths of the recipients is just flat out absurd.

 

[Plato]

Lets hope that Trump had nothing to do with choosing and funding the latest drug companies hoping codevelop a vaccine.
The first one he chose because they promised very quick results even though they had not produced any therapy that made it to the public.
The world needs a safe and effective vaccine particularly if the H1N1 influenza virus emerges this fall and winter.

 

[howeda7]

What happens to HS baseball if they push football to the Spring. Will they play baseball this fall? Try to have them at the same time?

 

[MplsGopher]

What happens to HS baseball if they push football to the Spring. Will they play baseball this fall? Try to have them at the same time?

Part of the reason why they should just cancel, if it comes to that.

Ivy League just cancelled fall sports.

 

[howeda7]

Part of the reason why they should just cancel, if it comes to that.

Ivy League just cancelled fall sports.

Baseball is "lower risk" so there would be some logic to swapping them. But that's a decision that would need to be made ASAP if they're considering it. Bigger schools can possibly do them simultaneously in the Spring, but at smaller schools, there won't be enough guys to even field a baseball team if football is going.

 

[MplsGopher]

Lets hope that Trump had nothing to do with choosing and funding the latest drug companies hoping codevelop a vaccine.
The first one he chose because they promised very quick results even though they had not produced any therapy that made it to the public.
The world needs a safe and effective vaccine particularly if the H1N1 influenza virus emerges this fall and winter.

Yeah that was a bit strange. But I think they also pushed a lot of dollars at the Astra/Oxford candidate to get like 300M doses early.

 

[Gopher028]

Gotta hope beyond hope that the deaths line doesn't rise up like the cases line has. Even then, would that be good enough?

Im not an expert, but from listening to those who are, it's important to get it, we have now had time to learn to treat it better (aka not put everyone on ventilators right away). There are many other corona viruses out there, there are not vaccines for those...likely won't be an effective one for this. Our human bodies are the best defense against this. We will have to learn to adapt to this virus with a 96% survival rate.

 

[Maverick]

This only happened if the delaying the treatment/checkup did not increase the recipients chance of death, i.e. elective treatments/procedures. To claim the delay of elective treatments/procedures lead to deaths of the recipients is just flat out absurd.

This is absurd on it's own. I personally know people who should have gone to a Dr or ER and didn't for fear of being exposed to covid. One stroke victim and one heart attack. I guarantee that this attitude contributed to many deaths! Open your damn eyes to reality!

 

[MplsGopher]

Im not an expert, but from listening to those who are, it's important to get it, we have now had time to learn to treat it better (aka not put everyone on ventilators right away). There are many other corona viruses out there, there are not vaccines for those...likely won't be an effective one for this. Our human bodies are the best defense against this. We will have to learn to adapt to this virus with a 96% survival rate.

I don’t think nearly the attention/money has been poured into finding a vaccine for them, before this.

 

[Taji34]

This is absurd on it's own. I personally know people who should have gone to a Dr or ER and didn't for fear of being exposed to covid. One stroke victim and one heart attack. I guarantee that this attitude contributed to many deaths! Open your damn eyes to reality!

But that's not what you claimed in your original post:

"More likely this is due to regular checkups, chemo treatments other treatments being delayed due to covid restrictions."

You claimed scheduled checkups and treatments were delayed due to restrictions at hospitals and contributed to deaths NOT that people who should have gone to the hospital didn't out of fear. Those are two separate situations. Doctors and hospitals never told people who needed care to not come in. Keyword is needed.

Unfortunately the people you know didn't properly assess their need for care, but that is not the fault of doctors or hospitals. If they had contacted a hospital with their symptoms they would have been told to come in and receive treatment to prevent potentially life threatening issues.

 

[GFBfan]

Looking more and more like no football this fall at the HS and collegiate level. Maybe the NFL can pull it off for a few weeks.
I don’t think moving to the spring is a good idea at the level as too many kids play multiple sports. It might work at the college level though.

 

[oak_street1981]

Looking more and more like no football this fall at the HS and collegiate level. Maybe the NFL can pull it off for a few weeks.
I don’t think moving to the spring is a good idea at the level as too many kids play multiple sports. It might work at the college level though.

These HS and College age athletes have about the same likelyhood of getting killed by COVID as by a car accident (probabably a lot less, too lazy to look it up).

Normal school and normal athletics should happen;, at the college and K-12 level. All at risk teachers and support staff need to be isolated. All this BS about distancing and in school precautions is BS, the students are almost all not subject to COVID.

Maybe class sizes go up, and maybe a few teachers teach remotely to the in house students, but that is what would have happened anyway, in terms of the delivery.

The teacher unions and everyone else is playing politics with this. The students and working parents are being used as pawns here by the left.

 

[oak_street1981]

This is absurd on it's own. I personally know people who should have gone to a Dr or ER and didn't for fear of being exposed to covid. One stroke victim and one heart attack. I guarantee that this attitude contributed to many deaths! Open your damn eyes to reality!

No kidding, heart disease and cancer just took a hiatus for 4 months! WTF!

Now all those sick people are in the ICU beds now that should have been there before (while hospital ships in LA and NYC sat empty, and 100M field COVID hospitals in Central Park were unused). The media now lies about "90 percent full" ICU beds in TX, AZ and FL, like that is a COVID thing! ICU beds are meant to be full or the hospital economic model fails. The left and the media hate economics and never studied it.

Total liars!! Jim Acosta journalism 101.

 

[oak_street1981]

No kidding, heart disease and cancer just took a hiatus for 4 months! WTF!

Now all those sick people are in the ICU beds now that should have been there before (while hospital ships in LA and NYC sat empty, and 100M field COVID hospitals in Central Park were unused). The media now lies about "90 percent full" ICU beds in TX, AZ and FL, like that is a COVID thing! ICU beds are meant to be full or the hospital economic model fails. The left and the media hate economics and never studied it.

Total liars!! Jim Acosta journalism 101.

Okay , I reposted this to the OT sewer board.. that board seems to intersect a bit with the Football board when it comes to the upcoming season for understandable reasons. I try to not bring too much of that stuff over here, even though my defenses of TC, the banished ten (Tyrone Carter brought that back), and of course the Glen Mason firing were al; very polarizing, plus the year zero of PFJ.

Oh well:

These HS and College age athletes have about the same likelyhood of getting killed by COVID as by a car accident (probabably a lot less, too lazy to look it up).

Normal school and normal athletics should happen;, at the college and K-12 level. All at risk teachers and support staff need to be isolated. All this BS about distancing and in school precautions is a distraction, the students are almost all not subject to COVID, either as carriers or the at risk.

If we conducted business in the USA in such a risk adverse manner as we have done the last 4 plus months in the past nothing ever would have gotten done and we'd all be speaking German or Japanese right now.

Maybe class sizes go up, and maybe a few teachers teach remotely to the in house students, but that is what would have happened anyway, in terms of the delivery.

The teacher unions and everyone else is playing politics with this. The students and working parents are being used as pawns here by the left.



OK enough of that …. back to football!

 

[MplsGopher]

These HS and College age athletes have about the same likelyhood of getting killed by COVID as by a car accident (probabably a lot less, too lazy to look it up).

Normal school and normal athletics should happen;, at the college and K-12 level. All at risk teachers and support staff need to be isolated. All this BS about distancing and in school precautions is BS, the students are almost all not subject to COVID.

Maybe class sizes go up, and maybe a few teachers teach remotely to the in house students, but that is what would have happened anyway, in terms of the delivery.

The teacher unions and everyone else is playing politics with this. The students and working parents are being used as pawns here by the left.

When a high school athlete gets killed in a car accident ..... does it accidentally infect the coach and kill the coach too?

 

[short ornery norwegian]

covid does not have to kill people to disrupt sports seasons. if the star QB tests positive and has to sit out the big game, your whole season can go down the tubes real quick.