STrib: A year later, Vikings pay discounted bill to the U

[nsmike]

When your robbing Peter to pay Paul, like they did with the Tobacco bonds and school funding delays, you don't really have a surplus. This is just not a good time to be funding a stadium. All the money they claim to be bringing in is mostly illusory people will just shift their entertainment dollars else where.

 

[dpodoll68]

How is referring to them as the Queens offensive? Please explain (this should be good)

1. First, and most obviously, it's terribly misogynist. Duh.

2. As a Vikings fan, it offends me in at least 3 ways:
a. I am a fan of the Vikings. People who attempt to think up new and inventive ways to insult their own team aren't really fans.
b. Norm Van Brocklin sucked as a coach. Why should anyone take something he said and give it life over 4 decades later?
c. Norm Van Brocklin was an unmitigated a$$hole. Again, why anyone should continue the work of a huge prick is beyond me.

3. It's offensive to my sense of humor. I enjoy things that are funny. It's not even a little bit funny.

4. It's offensive to my intelligence. I enjoy clever and witty sayings. It's neither witty nor clever. It's just plain stupid.

5. It's offensive to my reputation as a wordsmith. The word "Viking" has about as much in common with "queen" as the Badgers do with class and dignity. Would it be funny if I said "Walqueen After Midnight" or "I got a job as a parqueen attendant"? No, those sayings are just stupid, not clever, and not funny, just like "Viqueens".

Shall I go on?

 

[Formo]

Those "surplusses" that they find from time to time have a way of disappearing pretty damn fast. After all, we don't want another bridge to fall down during rush-hour traffic, do we zambammer? Our infrastructure is falling apart. Roads need to be repaired. Bridges need to be repaired and rebuilt. We aren't out of the woods on any economic fronts. Building anohter new stadium or ball park for a billionaire just won't happen right now. Maybe some day. That nfl former expansion franchise is just going to have to wait for a better time to be built by the citizens.

Take a look around you zambamNOthankyoumaam/man-which ever your case may be: the State Government is just one little miscalculation away from being belly up. It is NO time for the state to be sinking money into a new stadium for that former nfl expansion team. Let that damn nfl poor-excuse of a football team play in that dome for a few more years...or decades...or, at least until the time they pack up and move out of state...JUST saying...ya' know...

; 0 )

Weird, because there hasn't been any notion that a funding program being established for the Vikings stadium. As it stands now, the only TRUE public dollars going towards the Arden Hills site is Ramsey county. Sucks for those that live there that don't wanna pay it, but that's hardly any more than what Minneapolis/Hennepin County residents have to pay for countless public 'entertainment' spots.

 

[station19]

Weird, because there hasn't been any notion that a funding program being established for the Vikings stadium. As it stands now, the only TRUE public dollars going towards the Arden Hills site is Ramsey county. Sucks for those that live there that don't wanna pay it, but that's hardly any more than what Minneapolis/Hennepin County residents have to pay for countless public 'entertainment' spots.

What public dollars are those?

 

[Formo]

What public dollars are those?

1% sales tax increase throughout the county.

 

[Rosemountian]

If the gopher brass was smart they'd tell the Vikings to move and get bent.

 

[station19]

1% sales tax increase throughout the county.

Since when and for what?

 

[station19]

If the gopher brass was smart they'd tell the Vikings to move and get bent.

That would be real smart.

 

[CrocShots]

Since when and for what?

1% sales tax increase throughout the county.

1%? Politics aside, my sales tax is like 9%. Pays for Blago's lawyers.

 

[Formo]

Since when and for what?

That was the number I recall (I very well could be off on it, though as I'm only going by memory at this point. Maybe it's an half-percent increase), since the last time I checked (probably a few weeks ago). For what? Uhh.. Did you see the previous comments? For the stadium.

 

[Formo]

I did a tiny bit of Googling and turns out that according to BusinessWeek.com, "Ramsey County board members hoped to raise a half-cent sales tax to pay a local share, but dropped that approach because it would have required a vote of approval by the public."

Which leads me back to my original point: The new Vikings stadium doesn't have any set funding yet, thus, so far does NOT have a single PENNY of public money going towards the new stadium. With the time they are taking on this issue, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the state money that may go toward the new stadium, where ever it may be, doesn't come from any new taxes.

 

[station19]

I did a tiny bit of Googling and turns out that according to BusinessWeek.com, "Ramsey County board members hoped to raise a half-cent sales tax to pay a local share, but dropped that approach because it would have required a vote of approval by the public."

Which leads me back to my original point: The new Vikings stadium doesn't have any set funding yet, thus, so far does NOT have a single PENNY of public money going towards the new stadium. With the time they are taking on this issue, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the state money that may go toward the new stadium, where ever it may be, doesn't come from any new taxes.

I wasn't sure if you were taking about something different.

The ramsey country proposed sales tax was .5% which the Ramsey County board passed. The State legislature needed to approve the action without the county residents having a referendum. The State declined. So now instead of the State coming up with $300 Mill, the need to come up with $650 Mill.

The State couldn't come up with the 300, so how are they going to come up with 650?

 

[Formo]

I wasn't sure if you were taking about something different.

The ramsey country proposed sales tax was .5% which the Ramsey County board passed. The State legislature needed to approve the action without the county residents having a referendum. The State declined. So now instead of the State coming up with $300 Mill, the need to come up with $650 Mill.

The State couldn't come up with the 300, so how are they going to come up with 650?

It's a stab in the dark, but my guess is that's why they are having all the meetings they've had and will probably continue to have. New stuff comes out daily. Not to mention, we don't even know for sure WHERE the new stadium will be. if it ends up in MPLS, then the total cost is going to change and according to MPLS leaders, they can come up with I think they said $200 mil in existing money (read: no new taxes) for the stadium.

 

[Go4Broke]

This assumes the U wants to allow for this. Not sold on the idea that they are. I'm not suggesting they are in cahoots to prevent it (I think the City is capable of being dumb on its own) but I wouldn't be surprised if the U wasn't pushing back against it.

The big thing to recall is that the Dome site is pretty much the least likely site. It's the worst of the Minneapolis based options (which is why its so perplexing that Rybak is still talking about it) and its the option the Vikings would hate the most (because of the need to lose money while playing in TCF).

GoAUpher, for such a smart guy it is amazing how wrong you can be sometimes. The new Vikings stadium is going to be built on the Dome site because: (1) it will be at least a couple of hundred million less expensive than Arden Hills and the two other Minneapolis sites; and (2) Minneapolis brings money to the table (their existing Convention Center tax) that Ramsey County will never be able to match.

Furthermore, the U will have to do whatever the Governor, State Legislature, and Taxpayers want regarding the use of the Gophers Stadium by the Vikings during construction of the new stadium on the Dome site. For these kinds of issues politics will always trump what is legal and what is fair. And every member of the Board of Regents is a political person in one way or another. Gopher fans should have learned that during the beer controversy at the Gophers Stadium.

 

[Rosemountian]

Minnesota has an $876 million surplus. Just sayin'

That's true. We are now 40% of the way to the 2 billion the state owes school districts.

 

[pharmacygopher]

GoAUpher, for such a smart guy it is amazing how wrong you can be sometimes. The new Vikings stadium is going to be built on the Dome site because: (1) it will be at least a couple of hundred million less expensive than Arden Hills and the two other Minneapolis sites; and (2) Minneapolis brings money to the table (their existing Convention Center tax) that Ramsey County will never be able to match.

Furthermore, the U will have to do whatever the Governor, State Legislature, and Taxpayers want regarding the use of the Gophers Stadium by the Vikings during construction of the new stadium on the Dome site. For these kinds of issues politics will always trump what is legal and what is fair. Every member of the Board of Regents is a political person in one way or another. Gopher fans should have learned that during the beer controversy at the Gophers Stadium.

Did you read the new Downtown 2025 plan that was just released? It goes against what the Mayor wants. Among MANY projects, they propose putting the Viking stadium by TC and TF. They want to basically build a lake where the metrodome is and make it housing to bridge downtown to the U. It seems like a stretch, but they do this plan every 15 years and essentially everything they proposed 15 years ago happened. Not calling it set in stone, but they are influential.

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/135554443.html

 

[Go4Broke]

Did you read the new Downtown 2025 plan that was just released? It goes against what the Mayor wants. Among MANY projects, they propose putting the Viking stadium by TC and TF. They want to basically build a lake where the metrodome is and make it housing to bridge downtown to the U. It seems like a stretch, but they do this plan every 15 years and essentially everything they proposed 15 years ago happened. Not calling it set in stone, but they are influential.

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/135554443.html

I think the new Vikings stadium absolutely belongs on one of the sites near Target Field and Target Center. But I don't think it is going to happen because they are running out of time to make those sites happen and they will be significantly more expensive than the Dome site.

The Arden Hills is by far the worst of the four sites. After spending multiple billions of dollars on mass transit in the metro area it is an absolutely absurd notion to build the Vikings Stadium in a black hole for mass transit. It borders on political malfeasance for a politician even to suggest the idea.

 

[Ole]

I think the new Vikings stadium absolutely belongs on one of the sites near Target Field and Target Center. But I don't think it is going to happen because they are running out of time to make those sites happen and they will be significantly more expensive than the Dome site.

The Arden Hills is by far the worst of the four sites. After spending multiple billions of dollars on mass transit in the metro area it is an absolutely absurd notion to build the Vikings Stadium in a black hole for mass transit. It borders on political malfeasance for a politician even to suggest the idea.

Gotta disagree here.
As a northeast metro guy this is the perfect place for a Vikings Stadium, absolutely perfect. Space to build a top notch facility, finally get the roads in that part of town figured out, and use a large piece of land that has sat vacant for way too long.
and the best thing is it gets a sporting/event center built away from god forsaken inner Minneapolis/St. Paul. The dome site is horrible, target field was barely squeezed into downtown, even the excel center is a pain to get to when it's busy.
IF you can get it done in Arden Hills, do it.

 

[nsmike]

The Wilfs are developers! Unless you come to them with a plan, that allows them to make money developing property, they'll walk. I don't see anyway politically this can come together in time to keep them from moving the team. The Arden Hills site would allow them to make a lot of money. Kill the Arden Hills plan, and they'll sell, to someone that will move the team.

 

[Go4Broke]

Gotta disagree here.
As a northeast metro guy this is the perfect place for a Vikings Stadium, absolutely perfect. Space to build a top notch facility, finally get the roads in that part of town figured out, and use a large piece of land that has sat vacant for way too long.
and the best thing is it gets a sporting/event center built away from god forsaken inner Minneapolis/St. Paul. The dome site is horrible, target field was barely squeezed into downtown, even the excel center is a pain to get to when it's busy.
IF you can get it done in Arden Hills, do it.

This is not going to be about whats good for Ziggy and Vikings fans unless he pays over 50% of the cost of the new stadium. If Minnesota taxpayers pay most of the costs then the location will be about what makes sense for taxpayers. The last thing the Twin Cities Metro Area needs is a third downtown drawing business from both downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul to an area which doesn't have light rail and good access roads.

If Minnesota offers Ziggy a reasonable financial deal on the Metro Dome site the NFL will never let him leave just because he prefers the Arden Hill site. The site for the new Vikings stadium is going to be the Dome site. Ramsey County has zero money to kick into the deal without new taxes which the Republican in the legislature will NEVER approve.

 

[GoAUpher]

GoAUpher, for such a smart guy it is amazing how wrong you can be sometimes. The new Vikings stadium is going to be built on the Dome site because: (1) it will be at least a couple of hundred million less expensive than Arden Hills and the two other Minneapolis sites; and (2) Minneapolis brings money to the table (their existing Convention Center tax) that Ramsey County will never be able to match.

This assumes the Vikings are willing to accept that deal (no guarantee). The convention center funding could also be used for the Basilica or Farmer's Market sites. Most importantly, that funding source is not a sure thing yet (nothing about any of the Minneapolis plans is a sure thing right now). But if you're talking about attractiveness of the possible sites the the current Dome location loses on every measure besides total cost. And when you're talking about a move like this going only on total cost means you'll end up with a crap product (just like when they did the Dome on the cheap).

Furthermore, the U will have to do whatever the Governor, State Legislature, and Taxpayers want regarding the use of the Gophers Stadium by the Vikings during construction of the new stadium on the Dome site. For these kinds of issues politics will always trump what is legal and what is fair. And every member of the Board of Regents is a political person in one way or another. Gopher fans should have learned that during the beer controversy at the Gophers Stadium.

No, they won't. The U has some power here if they choose to wield it. In order to force the U do to anything the legislature/gov would have to threaten to cut the U's funding unless they gave the Vikings whatever sweetheart deal is desired. I mean, you're talking about the legislature trying to strong-arm the state's flagship public university into great deal for a private company that stands to make great money regardless of what site they are on. The PR outcomes of that kind of a move aren't especially good for the Legislature/Gov. Add in the fact that you're unlikely to see any DLF support for such a move (which means no support from Dayton). Heck, would most Republicans even support that kind of a play? Especially since this would be a great source of revenue for the U at a time when budgets are tight.

The U would have every chance to get fair market rates for the use of TCF and to keep the revenue streams for themselves. I'm not saying the State can't go that route, I'm just suggesting they wouldn't unless they like a having a really bad PR situation on their hands.

The beer controversy isn't even in the same ballpark. While the U is losing revenue on that move, there are no other funding cuts tied to their decision not to serve alcohol and overall, they level of revenue they collect is still up simply because of football being on campus.

 

[GoAUpher]

If Minnesota offers Ziggy a reasonable financial deal on the Metro Dome site the NFL will never let him leave just because he prefers the Arden Hill site. The site for the new Vikings stadium is going to be the Dome site. Ramsey County has zero money to kick into the deal without new taxes which the Republican in the legislature will NEVER approve.

This is a big assumption on the NFL. You also keep assuming that total cost will drive the decision makers into choosing what you admit is the least ideal site.

 

[Buck_Buchanan]

This begs a 'What If' question.

What if the Vikes get a new stadium on the present dome site. The Vikes would need to play 3 years at TCF. What can the U expect to be paid? Currently the Vikes are paying $600,000 per game at the dome.

Interesting question you bring up. I tried finding answer for you but honestly don't know. I do know that, in 2002, the Chicago Bears leased Illinois University’s Memorial Stadium and had Chapman and Cutler (see Representative Transactions Section) involved. Perhaps they would be a good resource for both parties if that day does, in fact, come.

From a University's perspective, I would certainly hope they'd reach out and inquire with others that have been in somewhat similar circumstances. I'm sure they will.

Buck