Stop telling half of college football they don’t belong.

disco

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Couldn't agree more.
I agree 100%. I think the big thing missing for some people is this... the playoff is not designed to get the best 12 teams in the bracket. Or best 16. Or best 18. Or whatever it will expand to. That was never the intent. It's the same thing with a lot of tournaments. Take the NCAA basketball tournament as an example. It's not the best 64 (or 68) teams. Not even close. Look at the MN state high school hockey tournament. If teams participate in any sport, they want to feel like they have a realistic shot at getting to the year end tournament... and it is good for the game. The excitement generated at a school like Temple, JMU or South Florida if their team made the CFP far outweighs the need to have the 5th best SEC or Big Ten team included. And yes, I mean that even if the fifth best Big Ten team is our Gophers in any year.
 

It’s about giving an “outsider” a chance to be Cinderella. Absolutely should happen, otherwise what’s the point. One of these years one of those teams are going to make a run. F’ these dimwits that think college football should start and end with the SEC and BiG. Are they the conferences likely to win? Yes. But is there a chance a non G5 could, yep.
 


Well, it’s Finebaum and Lewan, so I don’t know what you’d expect.

If you don’t remember Taylor Lewan from his days at michigan, give him a search, it’s worth a google. POS
 

Who cares if a G5 team gets destroyed, the point of a playoff wasn’t to see if the 5th best SEC team can get hot and make a run.
What was the point then? Every year people were bitchin' about the #3 team not making it; they weren't upset the #13 team or where ever a G5 team ended up didn't make it.

Looking back from the time the BCS came along (late 90's) to when this 12 team playoff started, there is one time I can recall complaining about a G5 team, the 2006 Boise State team. And they needed miracles to just compete with Oklahoma, they weren't anywhere close to the best.

Some people just wanna see more football, or ignore the mammoth talent gap.

G5 teams are on par with the Gophers this year in terms of their ability to compete with tOSU and such.
 

I like the current system of 5 auto bids to conference champions. It awards a great season to teams that proved it on the field, not just in some pollster's mind (heavily swayed financially by the SEC/ESPN).

Heck, with the top of the BG10 & SEC pulling away from the pack, the ACC and Big 12 are starting to resemble G5. I still still want to see their top teams battle it out with the big dogs for a game or two in the playoffs.

It does make seeding more important, though. Last year's seeding sucked.
 

What was the point then? Every year people were bitchin' about the #3 team not making it; they weren't upset the #13 team or where ever a G5 team ended up didn't make it.

Looking back from the time the BCS came along (late 90's) to when this 12 team playoff started, there is one time I can recall complaining about a G5 team, the 2006 Boise State team. And they needed miracles to just compete with Oklahoma, they weren't anywhere close to the best.

Some people just wanna see more football, or ignore the mammoth talent gap.

G5 teams are on par with the Gophers this year in terms of their ability to compete with tOSU and such.

I remember disliking the BCS but now I look back with nostalgia. The big bowl games still mattered and stood on their own.
 




Counterpoint: Why exclude anybody? Why can't NDSU, Mankato State and St John's be in the tournament? There's a whole lot more than 1/2 of CFB being excluded from CFP.
 

The excitement generated at a school like Temple, JMU or South Florida if their team made the CFP far outweighs the need to have the 5th best SEC or Big Ten team included. And yes, I mean that even if the fifth best Big Ten team is our Gophers in any year.
What scale are you "weighing" with? How does the "excitement" at the campus of JMU or South Florida outweigh all the TVs that will turn off when the game is 28-0 in the first quarter?

Now I can't give a concrete example since a G5 team hasn't made the NC but how about TCU from a few years ago. Does the excitement at their campus outweigh the rest of the country giving up on the game? I'd have preferred a more deserving team make it.
 

Counterpoint: Why exclude anybody? Why can't NDSU, Mankato State and St John's be in the tournament? There's a whole lot more than 1/2 of CFB being excluded from CFP.
You forgot Northwestern State. Even though they didn't look so hot against our mighty Gophs, who knows how they'd do if they felt they had a shot at competing for the national championship? They would certainly be more focused, and in football anything can happen, right?

Expand to 128 teams, double elimination!
 



I remember disliking the BCS but now I look back with nostalgia. The big bowl games still mattered and stood on their own.
Keeping the Bowl system relevant was one of the reasons I prefer an 8 team playoff (5 conference auto bids, and 3 at large to not miss a deserving team).

But I did enjoy watching every game of the 12 team playoff last year. I doubt I’d be able to watch every game of a 16 team matchup.
 

One of these years one of those teams are going to make a run.

...the SEC and BiG. Are they the conferences likely to win? Yes. But is there a chance a non G5 could, yep.

Nope. Never will happen. Not to bring politics into this, but there is a better chance of a 3rd party winning the White House.
 

Nope. Never will happen. Not to bring politics into this, but there is a better chance of a 3rd party winning the White House.
I hate to bring up soccer, but are you familiar with Leicester City winning the English Premier League in 2015-16 season? 5000-1 odds. Yes Lloyd, I’m saying you have a chance
 

Counterpoint: Why exclude anybody? Why can't NDSU, Mankato State and St John's be in the tournament? There's a whole lot more than 1/2 of CFB being excluded from CFP.
That's comparing apples to oranges. There are different levels for a reason. We don't let Winona State into the D1 March Madness, because they are not a D1 school. They have their own tournament to play for the championship.

There is no official split between P5 and G5 conferences (or P4/G6 whatever). If that happens, fine. Then the G6 conferences can have their own national championship tournament. But as of now, all ten conferences fall under the designation of FBS football. They all have the same rules, same number of scholarships etc. Therefore, every team should have a chance on paper to win a natty.

That's how it works in every other level of college sports.
 

What scale are you "weighing" with? How does the "excitement" at the campus of JMU or South Florida outweigh all the TVs that will turn off when the game is 28-0 in the first quarter?

Now I can't give a concrete example since a G5 team hasn't made the NC but how about TCU from a few years ago. Does the excitement at their campus outweigh the rest of the country giving up on the game? I'd have preferred a more deserving team make it.
You're basically saying that you care more about TV ratings and your own idea of what is entertaining than having a level playing field for all the teams at the same level. I would argue that one single upset of say a MWC team beating a SEC team would bring far more attention to the game than some matchup between a third place SEC team and a second place B1G team.

There's a reason March Madness is so popular. People love seeing the underdog make a run.
 

Well, it’s Finebaum and Lewan, so I don’t know what you’d expect.

If you don’t remember Taylor Lewan from his days at michigan, give him a search, it’s worth a google. POS
He was hotly recruited by us and IIRC, seriously considered us.
EDIT - just checked he visited us before he committed to Michigan, I think he one of his parents was a native Mn.
 
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That's comparing apples to oranges. There are different levels for a reason. We don't let Winona State into the D1 March Madness, because they are not a D1 school. They have their own tournament to play for the championship.

There is no official split between P5 and G5 conferences (or P4/G6 whatever). If that happens, fine. Then the G6 conferences can have their own national championship tournament. But as of now, all ten conferences fall under the designation of FBS football. They all have the same rules, same number of scholarships etc. Therefore, every team should have a chance on paper to win a natty.

That's how it works in every other level of college sports.
The ASU playoff loss to Texas last year, was the most fun I had watching a CFB game last year and as a bonus, a nation fell in love with Cam Skataboo - perfect RB name.


Or Boise beating AP and Okie going even further back- those are the games you remember.
 

You're basically saying that you care more about TV ratings and your own idea of what is entertaining than having a level playing field for all the teams at the same level.

Respectfully, the counter to this is that you care more about some fans of an underdog school enjoying their invite more than having a competitive game on TV.

I think an easy compromise would be to have these teams play the top dogs in the OOC games. If JMU or South Florida can start beating tOSU/etc., or even still be in the game in the 4th quarter, then after a few years of seeing that level, then I'd consider changing my stance.

I would argue that one single upset of say a MWC team beating a SEC team would bring far more attention to the game than some matchup between a third place SEC team and a second place B1G team.

Sure, just like the Green Party candidate winning the White House would bring a lot more attention to our politics than always having the R/D win the thing. But we both know that, while the Green (and other party) candidates fight hard to just get on the ballot, they don't even pose a threat to actually winning the thing.

There's a reason March Madness is so popular. People love seeing the underdog make a run.
Yeah, but undersized teams in basketball have a chance because they can shoot 3's, and if they get hot, that's how they stick around. A similar concept doesn't exist for football. Scoring 3 points versus 2 points helps the underdog, scoring 3 points versus 7 points hurts the underdog.
 

I agree 100%. I think the big thing missing for some people is this... the playoff is not designed to get the best 12 teams in the bracket. Or best 16. Or best 18. Or whatever it will expand to. That was never the intent. It's the same thing with a lot of tournaments. Take the NCAA basketball tournament as an example. It's not the best 64 (or 68) teams. Not even close. Look at the MN state high school hockey tournament. If teams participate in any sport, they want to feel like they have a realistic shot at getting to the year end tournament... and it is good for the game. The excitement generated at a school like Temple, JMU or South Florida if their team made the CFP far outweighs the need to have the 5th best SEC or Big Ten team included. And yes, I mean that even if the fifth best Big Ten team is our Gophers in any year.
shit the nfl and mlb playoffs don't do that either. there are division winners every year who are mediocre compared to other teams playing in harder divisions.
 

Respectfully, the counter to this is that you care more about some fans of an underdog school enjoying their invite more than having a competitive game on TV.
It's more that winning your conference should provide a path to play for a national championship, because that's literally how it works for FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA. And pretty much every sport for that matter. There will always be weaker conferences/divisions in any given season.

And it's not fans of just the underdog school. A major upset occurring would be a huge deal and garner a lot of attention. Nobody would remember third place Ol' Miss playing second place USC or something. It would grow the game.
 

Respectfully, the counter to this is that you care more about some fans of an underdog school enjoying their invite more than having a competitive game on TV.

I think an easy compromise would be to have these teams play the top dogs in the OOC games. If JMU or South Florida can start beating tOSU/etc., or even still be in the game in the 4th quarter, then after a few years of seeing that level, then I'd consider changing my stance.



Sure, just like the Green Party candidate winning the White House would bring a lot more attention to our politics than always having the R/D win the thing. But we both know that, while the Green (and other party) candidates fight hard to just get on the ballot, they don't even pose a threat to actually winning the thing.


Yeah, but undersized teams in basketball have a chance because they can shoot 3's, and if they get hot, that's how they stick around. A similar concept doesn't exist for football. Scoring 3 points versus 2 points helps the underdog, scoring 3 points versus 7 points hurts the underdog.
tell me, what game was competitive during last year's CFP 1st round? if anything, you're arguing we should just put OSU, Bama, Georgia, and Oregon in the playoff every year because you think they're good. there were 2 one score games in the entire bracket (ASU, CFP autobid who finished behind Bama,-TX, PSU-ND). The SEC didn't make the title game and had losses by 14, 13, and 25 in the bracket. that plucky G5 team that didn't belong lost by 17 giving up a late TD in a game they turned it over 4 times, missed 2 FGs, and threw one of those picks in the end zone.

This whole notion that "well I just know the teams are better" is proven wrong year after year. we've already proven the 5th best B10 or SEC team is not the best in their conference. Why do I need to see it again? Everyone was pissed Bama didn't get in, who promptly went out and lost to Michigan team with pretty much all their stars sitting out.

your argument of TV viewership is also meh. TV viewership was as high for Texas-ASU as it was for ND-PSU. The Boise-PSU game was as popular as OSU-Tennessee. The joy is that ratings don't give a shit if you turn it off at halftime. They cite the peak viewership numbers and sell based on that. It's about reach to eyeballs when you're arguing advertising revenue

Previously its been mentioned Boise was a huge dog against Oklahoma. The spread was OK by 7.5pts. we've had national title games with odds in that range so even Vegas disagrees that they didn't belong in that game.
 

The ASU playoff loss to Texas last year, was the most fun I had watching a CFB game last year and as a bonus, a nation fell in love with Cam Skataboo - perfect RB name.


Or Boise beating AP and Okie going even further back- those are the games you remember.
And the stupid thing about that is that idiots like Finebaum would tell you that ASU didn't belong and that some fourth place SEC team deserved it more, despite ASU being a very good team who absolutely belonged.
 

It's more that winning your conference should provide a path to play for a national championship, because that's literally how it works for FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA. And pretty much every sport for that matter. There will always be weaker conferences/divisions in any given season.

And it's not fans of just the underdog school. A major upset occurring would be a huge deal and garner a lot of attention. Nobody would remember third place Ol' Miss playing second place USC or something. It would grow the game.
Agree. I would be much more likely to tune into a South Florida vs Ole Miss game than sime of the other matchup that might occur if we took 5 teams from both the SEC and BIG. Group of Five teams might never win the whole thing but they could absolutely pull an upset in first game.
 

And the stupid thing about that is that idiots like Finebaum would tell you that ASU didn't belong and that some fourth place SEC team deserved it more, despite ASU being a very good team who absolutely belonged.
Exactly
 

Agree. I would be much more likely to tune into a South Florida vs Ole Miss game than sime of the other matchup that might occur if we took 5 teams from both the SEC and BIG. Group of Five teams might never win the whole thing but they could absolutely pull an upset in first game.
yeah if you're that worried about it, just pick the teams that are in then straight seed them (byes determined by rankings, not top 4 conference winners).
 

What was the point then? Every year people were bitchin' about the #3 team not making it; they weren't upset the #13 team or where ever a G5 team ended up didn't make it.

Looking back from the time the BCS came along (late 90's) to when this 12 team playoff started, there is one time I can recall complaining about a G5 team, the 2006 Boise State team. And they needed miracles to just compete with Oklahoma, they weren't anywhere close to the best.

Some people just wanna see more football, or ignore the mammoth talent gap.

G5 teams are on par with the Gophers this year in terms of their ability to compete with tOSU and such.
I’m not a playoff fan. I prefer the old BCS format of picking two teams, hell I don’t even mind the old voting format. I mean the real point of the playoff was obviously just a money grab. But they sold it as a chance to give everyone a chance to remove any questions marks. To me though it could be argued that a lesser playoff is more pure as we watch all year and see who we think is the best, takes out the possibility of a flukes playoff loss removing the team that was the best that year.
 





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