Still have faith in Pitino?
- Thread starter sonnygarcia
- Start date
We lost 3 guards from last years team(Mav, Smith, and Austin) replaced them with 1 incoming(mason) and lost 1 more to legal(McNiel). Losing 4 guard from your rotation no matter the quality of player and replacing them with 1 will leave your team tired at the end of games. How many of of those missed 1 and 1's are because players are tired? I don't know. Interestingly enough though Andre Hollins actually has had a reduction of minutes played over last year. Maybe that theory is all wrong I don't know.
JoshuaT81
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2015
- Messages
- 364
- Reaction score
- 214
- Points
- 43
End of the year he was horrible, but here you go.......
Vs. Omaha 6-10 19pts
Vs. Syracuse. 5-8. 16pts
Vs. Arkansas. 5-10. 15pts
Vs. Michigan st. 6-13. 17pts
End of the year not very good stats.
But I still say solid option for a bench player.
Sorry, I actually posted his FIU stats. Here are his Gopher numbers:
GM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P%
77-222 .347 57-174 .328
Someone is really going to have to explain to me how it is the coaches fault when your current players are making careless turnovers and shooting horribly from the free throw line, something that they did not do last year. Is he showing them how not to do it right this year, as opposed to last year? Sometimes it simply gets down to the fact that the players just are not getting the job done and right now, there are no satisfactory replacements on the bench.
BINGO!!!
watertown 1987 guy n
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2008
- Messages
- 1,212
- Reaction score
- 429
- Points
- 83
Thank you. Good to see when someone can inject some classy humor.
There might be something to the fatigue theory. It's not just the guards. Players like Joey and Mo are playing more minutes, too. These conference games have been pretty stressful with no room for error and no breathing space. The game against Nebraska may have been ugly but it was a tough and hard nosed game as well. Some people keep saying that the Big Ten is much worse this year, but, if that's the case, how come we are only 1-6 with a mostly veteran team? Some of the conference teams may have stumbled against unheralded opponents but maybe that was just early season growing pains.
Part of being a coach is preparing his team to play their opponents. That includes getting them fired up and concentrated for what they need to accomplish. Lastly it's the coaches responsibility to find ways to exploit the other teams weaknesses while finding ways to limit the oppositions strengths.
I still have faith in Pitino by the way.
True. And we lost several contributing pieces from last year. It is not the same team as last year at all this year. Losing four guards and adding one is not comparable. Mc Neil's unexpected loss hurt far greater than than just 5 to 8 points you could count on. He was our best perimter defender on this year's team..pretty significant piece to winning. His loss effects overall minutes now. His loss effects competition for playing time and performance...in other words he pushed guys to have to be better to earn and keep minutes. It's human nature: our guards know nobody is taking their minutes no how bad they play. Everybody always thinks they are doing the best they can until somebody pushes them to do better. All that's gone and it was unexpected.
GophersInIowa
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2008
- Messages
- 44,441
- Reaction score
- 27,152
- Points
- 113
Nope, just one person. And there are people who react like this in every fan base. Honestly, this is pretty tame compared to some fan bases.
Yup, and if you are watching: Pitino puts the players in situations very often to be successful. He fits your definition. But when the players miss the easy shot, throw the ball away, miss free throws, or find lots of ways to sabotage the game plan there are not many short term fixes. The players have to execute better. This thread is putting all that responsibiilty on Pitino. Our players need to share some responsibility.
Yes player and coaches need to share in responsibility.
Post game of Nebraska Hollins was quoted as "we were missing free throws." He should be saying "I missed valuable free throws."
Could not agree more
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
station19
Moderator
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 22,605
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 36
Joshua, station19 forgot the sarcasm notation.
Actually I was being serious but I probably did a poor job wording it.
What I meant was MS had a good start to the year and contributed to several victories....especially his 3pt'ers. Plenty of talk about only missing Austin Hollins, but Malik was a contributor at the beginning of the year..........Not so much at the end.
Blitzkrieg
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2010
- Messages
- 728
- Reaction score
- 41
- Points
- 28
Interesting thread to say the least. Emotionally driven opinions on both sides of this argument.
What I find encouraging is that most of us are searching for rationale why this team has underperformed to date.
Most posters agree that inconsistent free throw shooting, an inability to box out and increase our rebounding advantage and being careless with possessions are all reasons for this teams lack of success. Where the blame lies is where disagreement lies.
Is it the lack of coaching and inexperience with Pitino or is it a lack of execution with the players. We either assume it's one or the other. Most games in the conference season thus far has come down to the wire with an outcome that is frustrating for the fans.
Most assume that it's one or the other and a few state it's the combination of both. For the few that want Pitino's head served on a platter, I hope that's emotionally driven and not a true assessment of what he's accomplished to date.
Winning an NIT championship in year one was an accomplishment we should all be proud of. And in year 2 trying to identify the right combination of players whom he recruited and inherited to win more games is a difficult task. Yes, expectations were higher this year and we are all disappointed with the results. That said, execution has been easier said than done.
My opinion is that Pitino can turn this team around. Does he spend practice time driving home the importance of each possession and practicing free throws, we can only assume. Does he instill the proper technique of boxing out on rebounds and during games this isn't realized. Who knows?
I'm as frustrated as everyone else in regards to the outcomes of our games, but quickly rushing to judgment and blaming the losses on the coach is an easy way out. Nobody knows what he teaches on a day to day basis. We can only assume and make our own opinions.
Like others have stated, it's about a combination of execution and coaching. None of us are at practice or in team meetings. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes, just the results on the court, which I agree add fuel to the fire.
I'm hopeful this losing streak ends and we start seeing positive results or more so, consistent improvement with our players. Hopefully we can all agree that we don't have a star studded roster and as Pitino moves forward with our team, the pieces begin to fit. As Pitino has pointed out recruiting is key. He needs time to fit his system and I'm willing to give him that space. Over-reacting emotionally by their lack of success is expected from die hard fans but not always a rationale conclusion.
I'm willing to give coach and the players time to succeed, no matter my frustration. My hope is that other posters begin to act a little more rationale and not jump to conclusions as to who is a fault. Changing to a winning culture takes time and buy in. Missing influential players like Austin Hollins aren't easily replaced. It's gonna take time...
What I find encouraging is that most of us are searching for rationale why this team has underperformed to date.
Most posters agree that inconsistent free throw shooting, an inability to box out and increase our rebounding advantage and being careless with possessions are all reasons for this teams lack of success. Where the blame lies is where disagreement lies.
Is it the lack of coaching and inexperience with Pitino or is it a lack of execution with the players. We either assume it's one or the other. Most games in the conference season thus far has come down to the wire with an outcome that is frustrating for the fans.
Most assume that it's one or the other and a few state it's the combination of both. For the few that want Pitino's head served on a platter, I hope that's emotionally driven and not a true assessment of what he's accomplished to date.
Winning an NIT championship in year one was an accomplishment we should all be proud of. And in year 2 trying to identify the right combination of players whom he recruited and inherited to win more games is a difficult task. Yes, expectations were higher this year and we are all disappointed with the results. That said, execution has been easier said than done.
My opinion is that Pitino can turn this team around. Does he spend practice time driving home the importance of each possession and practicing free throws, we can only assume. Does he instill the proper technique of boxing out on rebounds and during games this isn't realized. Who knows?
I'm as frustrated as everyone else in regards to the outcomes of our games, but quickly rushing to judgment and blaming the losses on the coach is an easy way out. Nobody knows what he teaches on a day to day basis. We can only assume and make our own opinions.
Like others have stated, it's about a combination of execution and coaching. None of us are at practice or in team meetings. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes, just the results on the court, which I agree add fuel to the fire.
I'm hopeful this losing streak ends and we start seeing positive results or more so, consistent improvement with our players. Hopefully we can all agree that we don't have a star studded roster and as Pitino moves forward with our team, the pieces begin to fit. As Pitino has pointed out recruiting is key. He needs time to fit his system and I'm willing to give him that space. Over-reacting emotionally by their lack of success is expected from die hard fans but not always a rationale conclusion.
I'm willing to give coach and the players time to succeed, no matter my frustration. My hope is that other posters begin to act a little more rationale and not jump to conclusions as to who is a fault. Changing to a winning culture takes time and buy in. Missing influential players like Austin Hollins aren't easily replaced. It's gonna take time...
march madness
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2009
- Messages
- 3,062
- Reaction score
- 335
- Points
- 83
You can teach players to do certain things better, or concentrate on something. But when it comes down to it, our pf options of King and Buggs will never be great at boxing out and will always be on the defensive end especially. Mix that issue with the undersized sf we are playing in morris, and a center in Mo who doesnt rebound well and its also a recruiting issue. WE absolutely need to get a physical juco player next year. The team will have the same issue next year. Having King and Morris as your starting forwards in the bigten will give us the two worst physical rebouding players in the league. I am not ripping on them, they have their talents im ripping on the build of the team. Morris could be a great sg, king is a great stretch 4 in spurts, they are horrible together.
TheBulldog
Banned
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2014
- Messages
- 161
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 16
Why isn't he banned for having an opinion, and posing a question? I hope this is sarcasm or some kind of joke. Otherwise, "how come you ain't," banned for being an irrational homer with awful grammar?
I mean, he has a valid point if you take off your blinding homer glasses:
Just because he's Rick Pitino, Jr. doesn't mean squat for his abilities. What has he done to show you that he deserves to be considered an elite college bball coach at this point? Even a good bball coach at the B1G level? The fact that he led FIU to roughly a .500 record in the Sun Belt? Wow, impressive. Do you really think the NIT was his doing? That he had that much to do with Mighty Mouse and Austin Hollins completely out of their gords in the NIT tournament? (and let's not forget, they played some bad teams in the NIT tournament, very bad. They beat an American conference team in the finals). If so, why doesn't he get the blame for tanking three easy wins (Nebraska, NW, Purdue) to blow their tournament hopes? Is it his 9-16 career B1G record, with losses in teh barn to Northwestern, Purdue, and an awful Michigan team? He hasn't been able to beat Nebraska yet. Nebraska. We're talking about basketball here. He's lost to Purdue 2 of 3 times. He has 3 wins against ranked teams in 13 tries.
That's all he's got on his resume at this point. I'm sorry, if you're consistently losing to Purdue and Nebraska at this point, with a better team (I don't care how much they've improved since 2012-13, the Gophers should be a much better program at this point) you're not doing a very good job as a coach. I don't care how close the losses are, it doesn't change the standings. Recruits don't care about moral victories, and close losses to bad teams don't get you on ESPN. This isn't horseshoes, it's B1G basketball. They're all dogfights. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about moral victories, and how "close" they are. Bottom line, they're 1-6 in the B1G right now, and their schedule has NOT been tough.
I believe he will be a great coach someday, I'm only saying that I can definitely see the other side of this argument. It's not as cut and dried as all you uber-homers think. But, it doesn't matter, he'll be gone within a couple years anyway. It's basically common knowledge to anyone familiar with the program that he hates it here. Those who don't believe the "rumors" are in absolute denial. He's already as good as gone, whether he succeeds here or not. In my opinion, I give it an absolute maximum of three more seasons, after this one. You don't think other schools competing for the same recruits as Pitino know this? That's why he'll never get a big-time top 25-50 prospect in here (just watch Coffey and Trent go elsewhere).
I'll tell you this, the next coach won't have a big name like Richard Pitino. If they can't capitalize on this, and bring the program back to national prominance, and/or build some elite facilities, before he leaves, I think the program is as good as doomed. They will slink back near the bottom of the B1G for a sustained period of time.
I think there is definitely a reasonable concern about the speed at which he can rebuild this program. Especially when he has apparently already made it known to people close to the program that he really doesn't enjoy it here. There's a short window. At the rate elite kids are leaving MN, and top 100 players avoid us like the plague, it could be a rough ride if Pitino doesn't bring the program back to recruiting respectability before he leaves.
Since when? I don't think anyone's under the illusion that he's here for life, but 'hates it'? Please, we heard the same BS about Tubby, and he stayed for 6 years and only left when he was forced to. If a clearly better job comes calling, I think Richard will leave, but he's no more likely to leave for the Auburn's and LSU's of the world than Tubby was.
What's there to "rebuild"? we have had 1 good season in my lifetime(I'm 27) and that year was invalidated because we cheated on academics. We've had a lot of average ones. We are one of the only BIG programs to not have a practice facility. There is no rebuilding. There is only building.
We didn't think Tubby was the guy to do that. So we moved on. We thought that to build a program we should go young and get an up and coming coach(you even admitted to thinking he'll be good or even great one day). Point is if he leaves to go somewhere better than I'm happy for that. I don't want to fire another coach I want the team to be so good coaches come here and then succeed.
lastly "At the rate elite kids are leaving MN" Pitino had less than a year on the Big 3 or 4. Jarvis is the 2nd best recruit in the state! we got him. Michael hurt in 2016 is the 2nd best in that year too. So 2 years in a row we will get the 2nd best with a shot at the best in 2016 still. That is not bad considering how few players stay home for college in the country as a whole.
Based on how you seam to be remembering the glory days I will end this with:
Get over yourself old man and welcome to reality. Pitino(name or not given his recommendation from Billy Donovan) is probably the best coach we could have gotten and I don't think we could get better right now if we got rid of him.
SelectionSunday
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 25,183
- Reaction score
- 6,017
- Points
- 113
Refresh my memory, who's ahead of Jarvis Johnson in-state for 2015? Illikainen or someone else?
Alex Illikainen
SelectionSunday
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 25,183
- Reaction score
- 6,017
- Points
- 113
Thanks.
I have never heard this one before. I assume you think you are someone who is "familiar with the program."
It boils down to this- if he fails here he won't have a better place to go- and we will have to take a different direction with perhaps a more conservative style coach.
If he succeeds here- he will have choices. But if he succeeds, maybe he won't hate it-eh?
Right now I bet he hates the idea that it is so hard to get recruits. But this is the deal he signed up for and he knows it and that doesn't mean he hates it here. He has made recruiting progress and I am convinced he will make more. When he gets his players in place- I'm guessing we are going to have some very good years. Then he will have choices but regardless of what he does from there we will be better off for it.
And the Gophers- at that time did not have a spot left for him. We already had Gaston, King, and Martin and Buggs at the PF. They felt C was a greater position of need and took Nwankwo. I'm sure they wish they had him inked now, but it's not like he turned them down flat- as Bulldog would have us believe.
watertown 1987 guy n
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2008
- Messages
- 1,212
- Reaction score
- 429
- Points
- 83
If the stories were correct at the time, his stock was dropping from a poor AAU season and he was scratching for a spot at Wisconsin. Don't how much truth there was to the story. Water under the bridge, wish him the best.
tinyarch
Banned
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2012
- Messages
- 9,367
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 36
I'm sorry, can you refresh us on when this program had national prominence? This program has two B1G championships with one being stricken from the record books. This program has been like a mid-major program that gains relevance once every 15 years or so. There is no way that Pitino will "doom" this program, even if he isn't successful. Look at the trail of mediocrity to failure that came after Clem's scandal. We have no other choice but to move up cause we've been dwelling at the bottom for a long time.
Pitino is doing fine. At minimum, he'll have this program where it normally is...bottom/middle. At best...our 15 year window of opportunity is coming soon! Kick back and enjoy the ride...or get off...your choice.
bemidjigopher
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2011
- Messages
- 7,148
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 38
Disagree. Depends what you value. I think Jarvis will have more control of the game and thus more upside. Illk. Will be good too but Jarvis has more potential
I'm just basing that on the various rating agencies. I don't have enough knowledge to differentiate who is better between a good Forward and a good Guard.