Stewart Mandel is Not Rowing Anything

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MennoSota said:
A team that is one of the youngest in all division one football, with no quarterback that has ever thrown a collegiate pass and a defense with only one legitimate consideration for a B1G award says otherwise.
I get the optimism and hope that fans have at the beginning of every season, but this squad doesn't have the strength nor the experience to compete in most B1G games. People need to tamp down the expectations for this season. It's going to be long and ugly before it gets better.
I am believing Fleck when he says this team won't really be competitive until 2020.
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You can drop the bit with me I know you're smart enough to see through the bull ****. Our non con is garbage, Indiana is garbage, Illinois is garbage, that's five wins right there, Purdue can't stop anyone and Maryland a mess as well. . Going to bowl is not optimism there are 40ish bowl games now, it's kind of pathetic if you're P5 and you don't go to a bowl

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Not a bad assessment from Mandel - especially from a national perspective.

I do think he is selling Minnesota a little short, but he also acknowledges the extremely young roster and the fact that PJ Fleck has acknowledged they are rebuilding and following a process.

I could see them taking a small step back and going 4-8 but it also wouldn't surprise me if they go 8-4. Those first 2 conference games at Maryland and home with Iowa could very well end up defining the season.

If you can bring Floyd home and head into that Ohio State game at 5-0, that would get some fans talking. Then you have winnable games with Indiana, Illinois, Purdue and Northwestern on the schedule.

You need to take care of those non-conference games at home but the key to a 7 or 8 win season is going to be those Maryland and Iowa games to open the Big Ten schedule.

Very disappointing loss at home to Maryland last year so that would be nice to go into Maryland and get some revenge this year.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
The 2004 Michigan loss at the Big House is rarely brought up, but that was another absolute crusher
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That game was much closer. They won it on a TD scored on crossing route after a well fought 2nd half. MI won the 2004 game fair and square. We literally gave 2003 away.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I wouldn't call Leidner a poor runner. They should have been ready to go right away with a QB sneak, then take a timeout right away if they didn't make it. Still have 14-15 seconds left, enough time to run 3 more plays.
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Leidner was an average runner at best. He was just asked to do it a lot. His 40 time at the combine was almost 5 seconds - that is poor. His running ability has been overestimated on this board. I think the sneak call would have been fine coming out of the review, but you don’t let him take it with only one shot left.

Agree with others that the drive to that point was nice, but that is mostly irrelevant given the sequence that followed. If only Woli could have gotten across the goal line on the catch prior.
 

SamSquatch said:
The head coach has to own clock management in this situation. It’s honestly worth a three minute watch (the whole game is available on YouTube) if you need to get lathered up before a workout. The absurdity of the sequence is just the epitome of MN football in the recent past.

Also agree with others on the 2003 Michigan game. More devastating in terms of potential season. But the end of that Michigan game in 15 and the look on Tracey’s face as he tried to understand a simple situation was just a paragon of his coaching tenure.
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+1

I was good with Claeys until that game.
If there was no timeout and you had that confusion is one thing, but that was a total disaster and if you are going to be a Head Coach, you need to control that situation.
 


SamSquatch said:
Leidner was an average runner at best. He was just asked to do it a lot. His 40 time at the combine was almost 5 seconds - that is poor. His running ability has been overestimated on this board. I think the sneak call would have been fine coming out of the review, but you don’t let him take it with only one shot left.

Agree with others that the drive to that point was nice, but that is mostly irrelevant given the sequence that followed. If only Woli could have gotten across the goal line on the catch prior.
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you wanted Leidner to throw the ball? we didn't have the horses and havent had them in 60 years. PJs trying to change that.
 

SamSquatch said:
Leidner was an average runner at best. He was just asked to do it a lot. His 40 time at the combine was almost 5 seconds - that is poor. His running ability has been overestimated on this board. I think the sneak call would have been fine coming out of the review, but you don’t let him take it with only one shot left.

Agree with others that the drive to that point was nice, but that is mostly irrelevant given the sequence that followed. If only Woli could have gotten across the goal line on the catch prior.
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I think he was pretty good running near the goal line though. Bigger guy that generally fell forward when he ran.

What a rollercoaster of emotions there were in the last 30 seconds of that game.
 





SamSquatch said:
Leidner was an average runner at best. He was just asked to do it a lot. His 40 time at the combine was almost 5 seconds - that is poor. His running ability has been overestimated on this board. I think the sneak call would have been fine coming out of the review, but you don’t let him take it with only one shot left.

Agree with others that the drive to that point was nice, but that is mostly irrelevant given the sequence that followed. If only Woli could have gotten across the goal line on the catch prior.
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Ugh.

I literally leaped out of my chair when he caught that ball. I was thinking "TD! We're gonna win!"

Then the review, I'm thinking "whatever you jerks, we're just gonna punch it in right here". Then twelve motions and an incompletion later, I'm thinking "run a damn sneak! you've got a 2xx lbs QB!" And I hear the whole stadium start yelling "Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!" and I'm thinking "Yeah!! No f-ing way they don't get this!!"

Then ..................
 

MennoSota said:
A team that is one of the youngest in all division one football, with no quarterback that has ever thrown a collegiate pass and a defense with only one legitimate consideration for a B1G award says otherwise.
I get the optimism and hope that fans have at the beginning of every season, but this squad doesn't have the strength nor the experience to compete in most B1G games. People need to tamp down the expectations for this season. It's going to be long and ugly before it gets better.
I am believing Fleck when he says this team won't really be competitive until 2020.
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Recievers can easily prop up a mediocre to poor qb and I think we have enough improvement in that area to surprise some this year. Penn State a few years ago was in a similar situation with Mcsorely as a freshman and was fine. 3-9 would be a major disappointment.


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I have been around Gopherhole for a while now and it has actually taught me something about myself: I always get irritated when the national predictions are often much more pessimistic than my own prediction. Then, more often than not, the national people are closer to reality than me or most other gopherholers. My own prediction for this year is another missed bowl trip and more QB problems. So, 3-9 isn't actually that far off from what I am anticipating. It would be nice to be pleasantly surprised with a breakout year. My heart will still pull for that while my head tells me the team will continue to struggle. As always, I can easily see the bright side and envision all the "maybe" items working out to once again put Fleck in all the national college football discussions.
 



Hockeytown said:
you wanted Leidner to throw the ball? we didn't have the horses and havent had them in 60 years. PJs trying to change that.
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I did not want him to throw the ball necessarily. That is not what was said. If you run Leidner, you do it right out of the break, maybe even again right after, but not on the last play when it was completely predictable given the Kill situation. I think you give it to your lead back with as much momentum as possible. I think there are a matrix of plays that may have been appropriate.
 

everybody knows my name said:
I can't take any part of your post seriously when you write something this ridiculous. Is your head cracked?
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No - normal head. You can disagree but I do not think Leidner was a skilled physical runner. I think he had a decent ability to do the read-option.
 

Thomasthetank said:
That game was much closer. They won it on a TD scored on crossing route after a well fought 2nd half. MI won the 2004 game fair and square. We literally gave 2003 away.
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I'm not disputing that it was a hard fought game, simply saying it was yet another crushing blow to drop that one after scoring the 17 consecutive points etc
 

SamSquatch said:
No - normal head. You can disagree but I do not think Leidner was a skilled physical runner. I think he had a decent ability to do the read-option.
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This is very different from your earlier post, in which you said he was a poor runner. Like it or not, the guy compiled a career's worth of statistics (1495 yards and 33 TDs) that show he was an effective runner. Getting stuffed on a lame playcall at the end of an disappointing game doesn't invalidate four years of successful running.
 

as far as the season - I think we will all know a lot more after the first three games.

At this point, we've only seen Morgan and Annexstad take snaps in the spring game. That is not the same as taking snaps in a real game against another D1 opponent, with crowd noise, etc.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being total failure and 10 being total success, if the QB play is at a 5 level this year, I can easily see the team winning 6 or 7 games and going to a bowl game. If the QB play is below 5, no bowl game. If the QB play is at a 6 or 7 level, then maybe an 8-win season is possible.

I hate to put it all on the QB's, but it's such a key position. competent QB play opens up room for the RB's. poor QB play dooms the RB's to stacked defenses all season. Certainly, the WR's have a role to play, but they can't throw the ball to themselves. (altho- Tyler Johnson was a HS QB - how about an end-around flea-flicker pass play......)
 

I do not agree there is dissonance. Leidner could adaquetely read the run option, but had almost no speed or elusiveness. For his career, he averaged 3.4 yards per carry, and in 2015, averaged 2.5 on more than 100 carries. Compiling career stats does count for something, but I do not believe it proves he was a skilled runner. His speed has been time tested, and it is below average.

His main asset was his size, which in a read option could be an asset in falling forward against an LB or DB. In a goal line situation, that is somewhat mitigated. Combined with the predictability of the play call, the call to end the Michigan game was a poor one.
 

SamSquatch said:
Leidner was an average runner at best. He was just asked to do it a lot. His 40 time at the combine was almost 5 seconds - that is poor. His running ability has been overestimated on this board. I think the sneak call would have been fine coming out of the review, but you don’t let him take it with only one shot left.

Agree with others that the drive to that point was nice, but that is mostly irrelevant given the sequence that followed. If only Woli could have gotten across the goal line on the catch prior.
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He did, the refs ****ed it up

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SamSquatch said:
The head coach has to own clock management in this situation. It’s honestly worth a three minute watch (the whole game is available on YouTube) if you need to get lathered up before a workout. The absurdity of the sequence is just the epitome of MN football in the recent past.

Also agree with others on the 2003 Michigan game. More devastating in terms of potential season. But the end of that Michigan game in 15 and the look on Tracey’s face as he tried to understand a simple situation was just a paragon of his coaching tenure.
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To me Wisconsin at Minnesota 2005: Blocked Punt was the worst defeat. Punter drops the snap and all he had to do was get a safety and we win. Instead he tries to punt it and it gets blocked for a TD. Afterwards they asked Mason if he prepared his punter for what to do in that situation and he said, "I don't want them thinking about negative things." SAY WHAT?????
 

SamSquatch said:
I do not agree there is dissonance. Leidner could adaquetely read the run option, but had almost no speed or elusiveness. For his career, he averaged 3.4 yards per carry, and in 2015, averaged 2.5 on more than 100 carries. Compiling career stats does count for something, but I do not believe it proves he was a skilled runner. His speed has been time tested, and it is below average.

His main asset was his size, which in a read option could be an asset in falling forward against an LB or DB. In a goal line situation, that is somewhat mitigated. Combined with the predictability of the play call, the call to end the Michigan game was a poor one.
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So was Leidner good at reading the run option?
Or running the read option?

Mitch was incredibly efficient at running the QB sneak. He was tough as nails and had the size of a college DE. Running it once was absolutely a good call. The issue was we should have had 2 additional plays.
 

Halsey Hall said:
To me Wisconsin at Minnesota 2005: Blocked Punt was the worst defeat. Punter drops the snap and all he had to do was get a safety and we win. Instead he tries to punt it and it gets blocked for a TD. Afterwards they asked Mason if he prepared his punter for what to do in that situation and he said, "I don't want them thinking about negative things." SAY WHAT?????
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Yep! As pissed as I've ever been. Maroney and Russell ran up and down the field all day and then couldn't get 10 yards at the most crucial time. Think Maroney was stopped on about a third and one. Also, the damn ball ended up way back there because we couldn't field the onside kick and it kept bouncing back towards our goal line. God, I hate the Badgers.
 

SamSquatch said:
I do not agree there is dissonance. Leidner could adaquetely read the run option, but had almost no speed or elusiveness. For his career, he averaged 3.4 yards per carry, and in 2015, averaged 2.5 on more than 100 carries. Compiling career stats does count for something, but I do not believe it proves he was a skilled runner. His speed has been time tested, and it is below average.

His main asset was his size, which in a read option could be an asset in falling forward against an LB or DB. In a goal line situation, that is somewhat mitigated. Combined with the predictability of the play call, the call to end the Michigan game was a poor one.
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To be fair, in college sacks are included in their running stats. In 2015 for instance, if you take out the sacks, he averaged a little over 4 yards a carry. Not a great runner by any means, but I think he did pretty well around the goal line. Either way, we agree the play calling and time management at the end was horrible.
 

John Galt said:
So was Leidner good at reading the run option?
Or running the read option?

Mitch was incredibly efficient at running the QB sneak. He was tough as nails and had the size of a college DE. Running it once was absolutely a good call. The issue was we should have had 2 additional plays.
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Mitch had the mental ability to make the right read on the run most of the time. This doesn’t change whether he had any ability if he chose to keep the ball and run it himself. Too slow, not shifty. Not a skilled runner.

I’ve already said I don’t mind the play call assuming it’s the first out of the review, or even second of three. Calling it on the last play of the game in a very predictable situation was a bad call. These exact things were already covered. The primary point here was the loss was on the coach (or coaches) and that is for the same clock management reasons you cite.
 

4 or 5 wins. This year is a gimmee for everyone and everyone knows it. As long as the Gophers win at least 1 game nobody's getting fired. At least two wins and there will be no heat on anyone at all. Maybe the Gophers will overachieve (I hope they do!) but this season simply doesn't matter a whole lot.
 

SamSquatch said:
I do not agree there is dissonance. Leidner could adaquetely read the run option, but had almost no speed or elusiveness. For his career, he averaged 3.4 yards per carry, and in 2015, averaged 2.5 on more than 100 carries. Compiling career stats does count for something, but I do not believe it proves he was a skilled runner. His speed has been time tested, and it is below average.
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He actually had better 3 cone drill and 20 yard shuttle times than Marqueis Gray. Almost identical to Deshaun Watson too.

Leidner's shuttle time would have been 3rd best for quarterbacks for the 2018 combine.

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Word said:
He actually had better 3 cone drill and 20 yard shuttle times than Marqueis Gray. Almost identical to Deshaun Watson too.

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These are good callouts and support Mitch. That said, his game film showed a player that could grind out 3-4 yards between the tackles, if the right read was made. Too often, this failed in important situations. He did not have the speed to get outside. I think his longest run as a Gopher was like 35 yards, so with more than 400 carries, he never really broke one. Didn’t have the speed to. I would be interested in his avg YPC against The B1G broken out against non-con.

I would contend he was a poor runner, and at best an average athlete. Others disagree and that is fine.

Marquies was on another level as an athlete and a runner. We haven’t had a cat like him since. Watching him run around against OSU and MSU level defenses was insane. Not that the plays he was executing were good, but it was clear he was as good or better than everyone on the field in pure athletic talent. That just doesn’t happen for us against helmet schools.
 

I think they were both good runners and average passers. I'm a big fan of Q too.
SamSquatch said:
These are good callouts and support Mitch. That said, his game film showed a player that could grind out 3-4 yards between the tackles, if the right read was made. Too often, this failed in important situations. He did not have the speed to get outside. I think his longest run as a Gopher was like 35 yards, so with more than 400 carries, he never really broke one. Didn’t have the speed to. I would be interested in his avg YPC against The B1G broken out against non-con.

I would contend he was a poor runner, and at best an average athlete. Others disagree and that is fine.

Marquies was on another level as an athlete and a runner. We haven’t had a cat like him since. Watching him run around against OSU and MSU level defenses was insane. Not that the plays he was executing were good, but it was clear he was as good or better than everyone on the field in pure athletic talent. That just doesn’t happen for us against helmet schools.
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Even while being on board with PJ, I don't expect a good season. The QB situation is murky at best. The saying is along the lines of, if you say you have 2 QB's, you don't have 1. The things said about the two freshmen recently are reminiscent of last year with Rhoda and Croft.

That said, 3-9 is not a good prediction. I'm thinking 5-7 wins. I'd be okay with 5, I'd be content with 6, I'd be impressed with 7...Not trying to be negative, the truth is PJ just hasnt had the time to get his own recruits up to speed, and he will be relying too heavily on freshmen, which includes the QB position.

Admittedly, I have nothing to base this off of as neither freshmen QB's have played a game, but I also have concerns about the future of the QB spot. I'm concerned or worried that neither QB will be good enough for the Big Ten, and next season another freshman may be forced into a starting role. Feeling they need a grad transfer badly.
 

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