State tourney thoughts?

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Facts34 said:
If you don't think Hopkins still influences young players directly, then your head is in the sand. You are correct that they have to do less of the blatant recruiting that they did in years gone by.

These days, it can as simple as the Novak clan and Friends of the Program getting word to a kid that they are interested in him wearing the Hopkins colors. It's not conspiratorial. It happens.
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Sounds like a pretty vast conspiracy!

With your line of thinking...with all of the big-time young players they must've reached out to (because they've had so many over the past 20 years), why haven't they ever gotten caught? As in, ONCE? I've never read of a single player that has said, "I was contacted by the Hopkins coaching staff, but decided not to go because I love my team. They called me on this day, at this time, approached me here, etc."

With all of the hoopla around the conspiracy theories, you'd think we'd have even one example in the past 20 years? :rolleyes:

But I guess it just must be a huge conspiracy, and since they are such masterminds, they've figured out a way to cover up any instance that could come out over a couple of decades? Facts34, you're an EP grad, and the same is said of Mike Grant? However, again, absolutely no proof. Or is it just a Hopkins basketball thing?

The bottom line is that EP football, AV wrestling, Hopkin basketball, etc. don't have to recruit. Their programs recruit themselves...kids just want to play under arguably the best coach in the MN, where they can be seen and play on the best team in the state (for whatever sport they're in; football, hockey, basketball, wrestling, etc.). They may choose to transfer when they are entering junior high, or move into the district, or whatever; but it's not that people are actively out visiting their homes, calling or texting these kids to come there...THAT is asinine.
 

P.S. Regarding the Hopkins coach, I can't really think of anyone off the top of my head that may be better? I think Klingsporne (sp?), McDonald, Thorson, etc. are good coaches, but Novak has something 7-8 state titles (in 4A no less) and like 700 wins and 100 losses or something ridiculous like that.

I don't know of any other coach that is really close to the amount of titles & winning percentage? There may be, but I can't think of any?
 

wow youre all stupid. anyone can be called the best coach and win all the time if they have the best players in the state consistantly. Calipari for example, really not that great of a coach, wins all of the time because he has NBA players on a college roster. Novak=college players on a high school roster
 

tell me the name of a coach who cant go undefeated with trent lockett, royce white, mike broghammer, cowels, williams. etc....
 

Go Gophs eh? said:
anyone can be called the best coach and win all the time if they have the best players in the state consistantly. Calipari for example, really not that great of a coach, wins all of the time because he has NBA players on a college roster. Novak=college players on a high school roster
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And how many national titles has Calipari won with all of that superior talent? Oh yeah, zero.

You can argue chicken vs. egg all day with coaches and their players; does the coach make the players, or do the players make the coach? There have been many talented teams in the state that haven't won a single state title, much less 7 or 8 like Novak. This year, they had one player that is going to a high-major school, and that player (Coleman) has his limitations.

Put it this way, you take 10-15 former Hopkins players that have gone D1, put them in a different district/school grades 7-12, and it's my opinion that they wouldn't have been nearly as good (whether it is fundamentals, understanding of the game, etc.).

If Novak had a player like Rodney Williams go through his program from the 7th grade on, he would've been a one and done lottery pick in my opinion. Instead, he stays at Cooper, and is just now trying to learn the fundamentals of shooting, spacing, passing, etc. nearly 7-8 years later.

Have you ever seen a Hopkins player that lacks basic fundamentals or an understanding of the game? I haven't. But I've seen many SUPER talented kids around the state never realize their full potential because they've had absolutely terrible coaches growing up.
 


ShowinGoldyLove said:
And how many national titles has Calipari won with all of that superior talent? Oh yeah, zero.

You can argue chicken vs. egg all day with coaches and their players; does the coach make the players, or do the players make the coach? There have been many talented teams in the state that haven't won a single state title, much less 7 or 8 like Novak. This year, they had one player that is going to a high-major school, and that player (Coleman) has his limitations.

Put it this way, you take 10-15 former Hopkins players that have gone D1, put them in a different district/school grades 7-12, and it's my opinion that they wouldn't have been nearly as good (whether it is fundamentals, understanding of the game, etc.).

If Novak had a player like Rodney Williams go through his program from the 7th grade on, he would've been a one and done lottery pick in my opinion. Instead, he stays at Cooper, and is just now trying to learn the fundamentals of shooting, spacing, passing, etc. nearly 7-8 years later.

Have you ever seen a Hopkins player that lacks basic fundamentals or an understanding of the game? I haven't. But I've seen many SUPER talented kids around the state never realize their full potential because they've had absolutely terrible coaches growing up.
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Exactly, it's the same argument people make against Phil Jackson being one of the greatest NBA coaches of all time. "Yeah but he had MJ and now he has Kobe." Obviously a coach will be directly influenced by the talent he has but at some point you need to also credit a coach for consistently meeting/exceeding expectations. Any coach could win a lot of games with Lockett/Royce/Broghammer etc but to repeat the next year after losing his top 6 players with a bunch of players who had minimal roles the year before (Joe Coleman was used almost exclusively during running time/in mop-up duty), that's the sign of a great coach. There might be some brilliant under the radar coach somewhere in 2A basketball but as far as known commodities go I would put Novak as #1.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Sounds like a pretty vast conspiracy!

With your line of thinking...with all of the big-time young players they must've reached out to (because they've had so many over the past 20 years), why haven't they ever gotten caught? As in, ONCE? I've never read of a single player that has said, "I was contacted by the Hopkins coaching staff, but decided not to go because I love my team. They called me on this day, at this time, approached me here, etc."

With all of the hoopla around the conspiracy theories, you'd think we'd have even one example in the past 20 years? :rolleyes:

But I guess it just must be a huge conspiracy, and since they are such masterminds, they've figured out a way to cover up any instance that could come out over a couple of decades? Facts34, you're an EP grad, and the same is said of Mike Grant? However, again, absolutely no proof. Or is it just a Hopkins basketball thing?

The bottom line is that EP football, AV wrestling, Hopkin basketball, etc. don't have to recruit. Their programs recruit themselves...kids just want to play under arguably the best coach in the MN, where they can be seen and play on the best team in the state (for whatever sport they're in; football, hockey, basketball, wrestling, etc.). They may choose to transfer when they are entering junior high, or move into the district, or whatever; but it's not that people are actively out visiting their homes, calling or texting these kids to come there...THAT is asinine.
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Tell me this, why than does Hill Murray give out athletic scholarships? Are you trying to tell me they give just anyone those scholarships? Feel free to elaborate. And Apple Valley wrestling....you are just beyond yourself now. Yeah, having kids move in from Alaska, South Dakota, North Dakota and Wisconsin isn't very alarming. I'm sure the coach welcomed them with open arms...I'm sure he was shocked to find out they had entered the districts parameter.
 

JackiO said:
Tell me this, why than does Hill Murray give out athletic scholarships? Are you trying to tell me they give just anyone those scholarships? Feel free to elaborate. And Apple Valley wrestling....you are just beyond yourself now. Yeah, having kids move in from Alaska, South Dakota, North Dakota and Wisconsin isn't very alarming. I'm sure the coach welcomed them with open arms...I'm sure he was shocked to find out they had entered the districts parameter.
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This discussion has been about public schools and the idea of open enrolling vs recruiting. Private schools are exempt from that and therefore have more options. I don't think you'll find anybody who thinks that private schools like Hill-Murray or Shattuck St Mary's don't actively seek out hockey players.

As for Apple Valley I don't really know much about the school or the wrestling community but I have to believe that similar to EP in football and Hopkins in basketball more than anything it's kids trying to put themselves in the best situation for their future. If you were a middle schooler who was a talented wrestler with aspirations of wrestling at a D1 and possibly olympic level why wouldn't you enroll in a school that has a proven program that develops kids for the next level. Plus I'd assume their coach has contacts with just about every collegiate wrestling program in the country. Again it's not that this is good for high school athletics but who can blame these kids (or assume it's all because of behind the scenes recruiting). This is just one of the less attractive consequences of allowing kids (and parents) choose where to attend school.
 

Trying to get back on topic: I thought the PG from Columbia Heights has some great potential- Ben Glover, that is. Glover seemed very calm and collected and took care of the ball. A little lazy on D at times but he definitely was a lock down defender at other times, picking pockets using his length and quickness, etc. Drove the lane well and got to the free throw line. I believe he is a junior.
 



JackiO said:
Yeah it really does. After watching the 4 O.T game in which each team scored 2 points in each over time because they literally held onto the ball for two minutes at a time, I couldn't even stand watching the game. That is ridiculous. At one point, there was 2:30 left in the 3rd o.t and the other team held onto the ball the whole time for the last shot.....I mean come on.
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Didn't the Gophers and iowa play a game like that before the shot clock? I am trying to remember a game that went into multiple overtimes with each team scoring a couple of time early, and then just dribbling in the corner for a late shot...which was made a couple of times.

Might have been a dream, but it seems real. Don't know how to research that.
 

Stahl is a Chaska kid. Played with them all the way through 8th grade. Somehow wound up at Hopkins his Freshmen year playing JV.

Chambers IS a Hopkins kid.
 

thebarnsback said:
Stahl is a Chaska kid. Played with them all the way through 8th grade. Somehow wound up at Hopkins his Freshmen year playing JV.
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Probably because his dad has been the Hopkins assistant and JV coach for 15+ years if I remember correctly?
 




CourtneyJames4 said:
the coleman family hasn't moved since Dan transferred into Hopkins from the Southwest school district. So, even though Joe has always been at Hopkins he is not from the Hopkins school district.
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I think that is what you have to look at, how many of the Hopkins kids that play actually live in the Hopkins school district. It is basically a traveling team.

I'm not 100% sure but I have heard that Eden Prairie football is basically Eden Prairie kids. I think it is pretty much the same in all of their sports. I have a feeling that they don't encourage athletes from other districts to transfer in and the makeup of their teams reflect this.
 

State tournament thoughts as opposed to Hopkins thoughts, though I realize this is a Gopher forum and the only Gophers are from Hopkins, but...

Just another perspective. St. Thomas won the NCAA D3 this year, Winona won a couple D2 titles in '06 and '08, Mankato and St. Cloud got to the Final Four the past 2 years. I think MN small college ball is in good shape, it's just a question of who is going to end up being the next Tyler Nicolai, Marcus Hill, Jefferson Mason, David Zellman, Trevor Witt, et al. My guess:

Seth Hinrichs comes back from Lafayette and ends up at Mankato. Kevin Kuefler, wherever he is going is going to have a lot of success unless it's Lafayette or Northern Iowa. Michael Busack, unless he ends up at Northern Iowa. Estan Tyler maybe comes back from Missouri and ends up at Concordia St. Paul. Jordan Smith, dunno where he is going. Simon Krych, ditto. Vaughan Thada. Dylan Stewart. Raijon Kelly, no doubt a Tommie to be. Alex Richter.
 

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