State tourney thoughts?

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balds

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I'll preface this with saying that this is the first time I've seen every one of these players this year. I would love some more informed feedback.

Coleman - Certainly looked the part. Physical, confident, quick, good/quick hops. Seemed to have decent touch. Has all the makings of a very good D1 player. Knocks have been outside shooting/size. Didn't see enough to knock his shooting, obviously a 6'4 guy will face taller players at the next level. I'm glad he's on our side!

Lofton - Hard to compare him and Coleman. Obviously he can score and has quicks and a great shot. Joe has such a command of the game and game smarts. Not sure I can say the same for ZL.

Chambers - Obviously very short. Has good quickness and handles, but I'm not sure he could defend and effectively penetrate on a Big Ten level. Love his toughness and effort. I can see why Tubs and co. are waiting. I don't mean this as a slight in any way, but if PG recruiting falls apart, I would take him with open arms.

Singleton - I mean the next Trent Locket. The guy can play, has size, physicality and skills. Too bad we don't have 5 scholarships a year.
 

Coleman, etc..

Good inside game but I don't see any tremendous outside shooting. Barry Wohler's kid was terriffic tonight. Lofton needs to learn to arch his shots - outside shot need a lot of work. Pretty good games but h.s. needs the shot clock big time. Too mant one and half stalling for the final shot, etc...
 

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Says my cat, Paddy Ol' Boy before I wrestled him off my key.
 

Coleman is a beast around the rim. fundamentally sound, strong. moves well without the ball. He definitely needs to development a more consistant jumper and ball handling skills to be the high impact player the gophers expect...

Lofton's usually reliable jump shot was off, I read he injured his hand the day before the tourney. He is a game changer on both ends, carried Heights on his back all year. to deliver the best season in Columbia Heights history. When focused, he is the best player in the state with the ball in his hands. needs to work on managing his emotions.

Chambers- excellent vision, controls the pace of the game very well, quick n strong for his size.

Singleton- beastly undersized big man, if he was 2 or 3 inches taller, he would definitely be playing for a big school next year.
 

book said:
Good inside game but I don't see any tremendous outside shooting. Barry Wohler's kid was terriffic tonight. Lofton needs to learn to arch his shots - outside shot need a lot of work. Pretty good games but h.s. needs the shot clock big time. Too mant one and half stalling for the final shot, etc...
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Could not agree more. It's not only boring for the viewers when teams sit on a lead late, but it is pretty unfair to not allow the team to have any real chance of coming back other than fouling. Reward teams for playing 35 seconds of solid defense.
 


Attitude problem?

Looks like the case with Lofton. Did you watch his body language during the awards? He isolated himself from the team. On the individual second place awards he pretty much shunned the guy handing them out.
Joe Coleman: If we had the depth next year, he should be RS. By most accounts he will play the wing. He needs to work on his shot 15 ft out and his ball handling. His dribble is way to high. Like his brother Dan he has great hops and finishes around the basket really well. He is not the Dickie V
"diaper dandy", but he will be a good BT player.
Singleton: Northern Iowa got a good kid. Strong and aggressive. Just what the Gophers needed if he were 2 inches taller.
 


Jessica Alba Fan Club said:
Congrats to the Minneapolis,Robbinsdale,Golden Valley...I mean Hopkins Royals.
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Mike Rand's article in the Star Tribune points out that there isn't one transfer on the entire Hopkins team?

RE: Lofton, if that actually happened, that is terrible. I can't imagine a kid pulling a stunt like that. He's got some major issues; good job to the MSHL for pulling him off the All-Tourney team for his actions.
 

P.S. High school definitely needs a shot clock. You'd think it'd be cost prohibitive for a lot of smaller schools though.
 



Re: the michael Rand thing, hopkins is so well known that kids switch school districts from a very early age. If you are a big deal in 8th grade, you can bet you'll be playing for hopkins. 2nd, if hopkins has no transfers of any kind, is it plausible that the 10 of the top 50 players in the state were born and raised in the hopkins/golden valley area? I find that hard to believe.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Mike Rand's article in the Star Tribune points out that there isn't one transfer on the entire Hopkins team?

RE: Lofton, if that actually happened, that is terrible. I can't imagine a kid pulling a stunt like that. He's got some major issues; good job to the MSHL for pulling him off the All-Tourney team for his actions.
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Yeah, Lofton didn't want anything to do with the postgame stuff.

And no, HS basketball does NOT need a shot clock.
 

GopherRock said:
Yeah, Lofton didn't want anything to do with the postgame stuff.

And no, HS basketball does NOT need a shot clock.
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Yeah it really does. After watching the 4 O.T game in which each team scored 2 points in each over time because they literally held onto the ball for two minutes at a time, I couldn't even stand watching the game. That is ridiculous. At one point, there was 2:30 left in the 3rd o.t and the other team held onto the ball the whole time for the last shot.....I mean come on.
 

Jessica Alba Fan Club said:
Congrats to the Minneapolis,Robbinsdale,Golden Valley...I mean Hopkins Royals.
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First off, post more often...I love your avatar.

Your comment about Hopkins is pretty lame, though. Open enrollment has led to this scenario in all sports. I'm fine with it because it allows public schools to compete with the all-star teams that are the private schools...not to mention that Golden Valley is in the Hopkins school district. It's a level playing field. If EP or Minnetonka had a coach staff of Hopkins' level, they could get the same kids. The education at Hopkins was gone down a little over the years, but still offers a much better opportunity than a lot of inner city options. I think it's a positive all-around, especially because Hopkins has a history of feeding players to the U. It's not like Cretin or Eden Prairie football that lures kids in, and ships them out of state.
 



Go Gophs eh? said:
Re: the michael Rand thing, hopkins is so well known that kids switch school districts from a very early age. If you are a big deal in 8th grade, you can bet you'll be playing for hopkins. 2nd, if hopkins has no transfers of any kind, is it plausible that the 10 of the top 50 players in the state were born and raised in the hopkins/golden valley area? I find that hard to believe.
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It is absolutely possible.

If Hopkins is a rich area, which it seems to be.

Parents can get their kids in basketball with the best coaches, etc. from a young age.

Believe it or not, the coaching you get when young is a big factor when you are older (Hence why so many NBA kids are good at basketball - its not all genetic)

If Hopkins puts the most money into elementary school, middle school, and high school basketball it is reasonable to assume they would have the best teams and players. Doesn't it?
 

good run CH

four fouls with 11:58 left in the game I'd been a lil upset too...you work your whole life to get somewhere and then your stripped of your real chance...Loftons been snubbed from everything can't say I wouldn't have walked off the court...did you see how hard he was on hisself after the 31 point effort in a win?when he gets his *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# together he's gonna be a force to be reckoned with..attn:gopherhole staff I been waitin for that thread to be opened back up Young zach visiting the campus in april...along with Iowa Iowa state and northwestern BIG10 or bigger skys the limit
 

if thats your explanation, wayzata, edina, and eden prarie should be nationally ranked every year. Singleton should be going to some MPLS school from what ive heard. I think south but im not sure, but i dont buy that all of their players were born and raised in hopkins district. so the "they transferred before 9th grade" still looks stupid to me, they deffinately take players from other schools.
 

Go Gophs eh? said:
if thats your explanation, wayzata, edina, and eden prarie should be nationally ranked every year. Singleton should be going to some MPLS school from what ive heard. I think south but im not sure, but i dont buy that all of their players were born and raised in hopkins district. so the "they transferred before 9th grade" still looks stupid to me, they deffinately take players from other schools.
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Like you can even argue the point...where was Royce White from again???
 

Hopkins recruits and they aren't the only school to do it. Kids are recruited in 6th and 7th grade to play on schools traveling teams even though they still go to school in the school district that they live in. I personally know a kid who was recruited to play for another schools traveling team even though he lives goes to a school in his own district. He goes to the other schools basketball games, wears their jerseys and next year will probably going to that school because they will want him to play up.
 



i was talking to scher, who said that teams who put the most money into their programs win the most, so i said wayzata, edina, and eden prarie should be just as good if not better than hopkins, meaning just becuase they pour money into their programs doesnt make them good. so i was making your exact point? i think. but sure you're "right"
 

Go Gophs eh? said:
i was talking to scher, who said that teams who put the most money into their programs win the most, so i said wayzata, edina, and eden prarie should be just as good if not better than hopkins, meaning just becuase they pour money into their programs doesnt make them good. so i was making your exact point? i think. but sure you're "right"
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I wasn't saying it was true, I was just saying it was in fact possible, you had said it was not.

Eden Prarie is ALWAYS good at Football (and was in the Basketball championship this year). Could be from recruiting, could also be from just having a great program.
 

If anybody really cares, here's how the "transfer" (or anti-transfer) rule works. 1st, you gotta understand that it works within the context of "open enrollment." Kids can go to school wherever they want, it's the law (based on the assumption that some schools suck, and so kids need to be able to bail if needs be. I'm not sayin' whether that's accurate or not, but it is the reality on which the law and the anti-transfer rule are based).

Well, under open enrollment, kids started transferring for athletic purposes and people said, "That's wrong." So they decided that if you're an athlete you shouldn't have the same rights as everybody else. So if you transfer AFTER the 1st day of 9th grade, you lose a year of athletic eligibility.

But on the 1st day of 9th grade you can go wherever you want. So if you wrestle, you go to Apple Valley. If you play football you go to EP. If you play hoops, you go to Hopkins.

When Rand reported that there are no transfers on the Hopkins roster, he wasn't lying, he just wasn't telling the truth. Because of course people assumed he meant that all of the kids on the roster live in Hopkins, which they of course do not. Coleman is from Mpls., for one. But on the other hand, when Hopkins folks say they don't recruit, I believe them. They don't have to. Kids are not stupid.

But here's the deal. It used to be that kids tranferred to Hopkins after 9th or 10th grade, like Dan Vander Vieren did, after his soph year. He and other kids figured out by then that they were good enough to go to Hopkins and get playing time. Or they figured out that they weren't. But they started at home and they transferred (or not) later on. Now they have to be there for 9th grade.

So, no, the anti-transfer rule doesn't say you can't transfer, just that you have to do it for the 9th grade, when you don't really know yet if you're going to be good enough to play or not. So in other words MORE kids transfer to Hopkins (et al) under the so-called anti-transfer rule than did before the rule went into effect. They just do it younger. Great rule. so what the rule really does is prevent the kid who finds out he or she isn't good enough to play for Hopkins from transferring back home.
 

sunnyday2 said:
If anybody really cares, here's how the "transfer" (or anti-transfer) rule works. 1st, you gotta understand that it works within the context of "open enrollment." Kids can go to school wherever they want, it's the law (based on the assumption that some schools suck, and so kids need to be able to bail if needs be. I'm not sayin' whether that's accurate or not, but it is the reality on which the law and the anti-transfer rule are based).

Well, under open enrollment, kids started transferring for athletic purposes and people said, "That's wrong." So they decided that if you're an athlete you shouldn't have the same rights as everybody else. So if you transfer AFTER the 1st day of 9th grade, you lose a year of athletic eligibility.

But on the 1st day of 9th grade you can go wherever you want. So if you wrestle, you go to Apple Valley. If you play football you go to EP. If you play hoops, you go to Hopkins.

When Rand reported that there are no transfers on the Hopkins roster, he wasn't lying, he just wasn't telling the truth. Because of course people assumed he meant that all of the kids on the roster live in Hopkins, which they of course do not. Coleman is from Mpls., for one. But on the other hand, when Hopkins folks say they don't recruit, I believe them. They don't have to. Kids are not stupid.

But here's the deal. It used to be that kids tranferred to Hopkins after 9th or 10th grade, like Dan Vander Vieren did, after his soph year. He and other kids figured out by then that they were good enough to go to Hopkins and get playing time. Or they figured out that they weren't. But they started at home and they transferred (or not) later on. Now they have to be there for 9th grade.

So, no, the anti-transfer rule doesn't say you can't transfer, just that you have to do it for the 9th grade, when you don't really know yet if you're going to be good enough to play or not. So in other words MORE kids transfer to Hopkins (et al) under the so-called anti-transfer rule than did before the rule went into effect. They just do it younger. Great rule. so what the rule really does is prevent the kid who finds out he or she isn't good enough to play for Hopkins from transferring back home.
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Pretty good summary here. Hopkins does identify kids early and gets them in the feeder programs early on. Probably not a coincidence that one of the AAU programs (Chris Carr) is also located in Hopkins. This way they can "claim" that they do not recruit and none of the players transfer. I think the kids figure out who is going to make it fairly early, then transfer somewhere else (or return to their home district) in 9th or 10th grade, leaving them 2yrs to play for their new/old school. Or they can just go play at MN Transitions.....
 

gogopher said:
four fouls with 11:58 left in the game I'd been a lil upset too...you work your whole life to get somewhere and then your stripped of your real chance...
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His third foul (the reach in before half court) was really, really stupid.

His fourth foul (the charge) was definitely a questionable call
 

the coleman family hasn't moved since Dan transferred into Hopkins from the Southwest school district. So, even though Joe has always been at Hopkins he is not from the Hopkins school district.
 

Look at the enrollment at EP, Wayzata, and Hopkins. They are three of the biggest schools in the state. If Lakeville hadn't opened a second school, they would be just as good as those schools in every sport.
 

heres an example of how hopkins gets all their kids in the youth programs.
my 5th grade team was a powerhouse.
5th grade-we smoked hopkins by 30 pts everytime we played them.
6th grade-they added a couple new kids but we still won by 5 pts
7th grade-we split games but they had many different kids than the year before
8th grade-they smoked us.
 

WHB Brewer said:
Pretty good summary here. Hopkins does identify kids early and gets them in the feeder programs early on. Probably not a coincidence that one of the AAU programs (Chris Carr) is also located in Hopkins. This way they can "claim" that they do not recruit and none of the players transfer..
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So let me get this straight, Chris Carr is working with Hopkins basketball boosters (or the high school equivalent) to draw talent to Hopkins in an attempt to convince them to transfer to Hopkins. Chris Carr as in Eden Prairie girls head coach Chris Carr. Sounds a little conspiratorial to me. Hopkins does not need to recruit directly, indirectly or otherwise. Kids are smart enough to realize that playing for the best program in the state with the most exposure in the state and the best coach in the state is in their best interest if they think they're good enough to land a D-1 scholarship. Not saying it's right/wrong but let's stop pretending there's some massive recruiting conspiracy.
 

North Country said:
So let me get this straight, Chris Carr is working with Hopkins basketball boosters (or the high school equivalent) to draw talent to Hopkins in an attempt to convince them to transfer to Hopkins. Chris Carr as in Eden Prairie girls head coach Chris Carr. Sounds a little conspiratorial to me. Hopkins does not need to recruit directly, indirectly or otherwise. Kids are smart enough to realize that playing for the best program in the state with the most exposure in the state and the best coach in the state is in their best interest if they think they're good enough to land a D-1 scholarship. Not saying it's right/wrong but let's stop pretending there's some massive recruiting conspiracy.
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If you don't think Hopkins still influences young players directly, then your head is in the sand. You are correct that they have to do less of the blatant recruiting that they did in years gone by.

These days, it can as simple as the Novak clan and Friends of the Program getting word to a kid that they are interested in him wearing the Hopkins colors. It's not conspiratorial. It happens.

Call Novak a good coach. Call him among the best in the state, if you like. This is clearly subjective, but it is asinine to definitively call him "the best coach in the state."
 

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