St. Thomas' football opener as D1 canceled because of COVID-19 protocols at St. Francis (Ill.)

I'm actually pretty interested to see how St. Thomas does in the Pioneer League. It gives some insight in how a perennial top 20 D3 team stacks up against non-scolly D1.
 

St. Thomas will be in the top 3 of the PL soon. The UNI at Cedar Falls IA game will be interesting, and if I was not going to to be in Boulder that day I"d check it out.

i cannot wait to hear all the whining when St John's keeps beating teams in the MIAC 70-7 again like they did under Gags. St John's will win the next 10 titles and it will not even be close. St John's could probably win the Pioneer League some years. St John's gets high level D2 talent, and low level D1A talent, just like St Thomas used to/ still does. Remember when SJU was skewered for not hiring Mke Grant, what a joke that was.

Gustavus has a chance to be competitive as does Bethel if they hire the right coach, otherwise it is a long hill to climb for the rest of the MIAC.

So what did St. Thomas ever do to piss off that HarleyGopher Fstick? Got ousted from the Seminary for being a Pedo? That would explain the hatred
St. Johns has dominated in football before, nobody cared.

WTF is that last line about?
 


As long as this thread keeps getting bumped, it reminds me to ask…. Has St. Thomas found a replacement game yet? I’m real curious to see how they do in their jump to D1, and I wonder if they will also eventually make the jump to scholarship D1 football.
It would have to be funded by boosters who want to use it to raise the profile of the school.

Doubt they'll ever get enough fans to make it come close to breaking even that way, like NDSU does for example.

FCS costs, to do it well, are in the upper seven figures per year.


And then whatever Title IX implications may exist from the 63 scholarships.
 

Remember it is not God's will, but the choices of men that is of free will. The church like the law they are institutions, that are run by men, not God. There are a lot of freaks out there. But it is the collection of the majority that will carry the common good and clarity of free will, that reflects God's will. I just had a stream of clarity. Have a great day.
 
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That big new practice facility being added next to what was already a sparkling new stadium at Gustavus shows they either have great timing (considering UST’s departure) by accident, or a longer term vision of competing at or near the top of the MIAC. St. John’s isn’t going to come back to the pack, so if other schools want to compete they are going to have to do what GAC is doing. Does GAC have the right coach to take advantage of the investments? I don’t know enough about him but they have had pretty decent teams in recent years.
 
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SJU has 210 kids out this year, with two Div 1 transfers, the WR from Orno, that was a PWO with the gophers and a 5'11" QB from Minnetonka that went out to Colorado. I think they were neighbors growing up. SJU put up a new score board that looks as big as the Gophers in order to compete against Macalester and Carleton. They should move up, they beat UST most of the time.
 

St. Thomas will be in the top 3 of the PL soon. The UNI at Cedar Falls IA game will be interesting, and if I was not going to to be in Boulder that day I"d check it out.

i cannot wait to hear all the whining when St John's keeps beating teams in the MIAC 70-7 again like they did under Gags. St John's will win the next 10 titles and it will not even be close. St John's could probably win the Pioneer League some years. St John's gets high level D2 talent, and low level D1A talent, just like St Thomas used to/ still does. Remember when SJU was skewered for not hiring Mke Grant, what a joke that was.

Gustavus has a chance to be competitive as does Bethel if they hire the right coach, otherwise it is a long hill to climb for the rest of the MIAC.

So what did St. Thomas ever do to piss off that HarleyGopher Fstick? Got ousted from the Seminary for being a Pedo? That would explain the hatred

Concordia should be in that mix too with some built in advantages in that neck of the woods but they refuse to abandon the dumb high school flex-bonish type offense. It helps them win games vs. inferior opponents but limits their upside IMO. It's gotta be tough to recruit top notch QBs and receivers running an option offense.
 

I disagree (SJU moving up idea). SJU is the type of institution that is a perfect match for D3. They shouldn’t be penalized for being good at football. UST was another matter. Much much larger institution and dominant in all sports across the board. UST had become a bad fit for the MIAC. Becoming dominant in one sport isn’t grounds for leaving. GAC’s tennis program has been more dominating than SJU’s football program. The institutions are similar, and that is why they match up well to share an athletic conference with other similar schools.
 



St. Thomas will be in the top 3 of the PL soon. The UNI at Cedar Falls IA game will be interesting, and if I was not going to to be in Boulder that day I"d check it out.

i cannot wait to hear all the whining when St John's keeps beating teams in the MIAC 70-7 again like they did under Gags. St John's will win the next 10 titles and it will not even be close. St John's could probably win the Pioneer League some years. St John's gets high level D2 talent, and low level D1A talent, just like St Thomas used to/ still does. Remember when SJU was skewered for not hiring Mke Grant, what a joke that was.

Gustavus has a chance to be competitive as does Bethel if they hire the right coach, otherwise it is a long hill to climb for the rest of the MIAC.

So what did St. Thomas ever do to piss off that HarleyGopher Fstick? Got ousted from the Seminary for being a Pedo? That would explain the hatred
Contrary to popular belief, MIAC probably wanted UST out for about 20 reasons BEFORE football. Though football was a reason. ST John’s has been better than UST in football even in the last 3-4 years. St. John’s has been running up 80 on people too.

ST Thomas wants to be regional like Drake, Creighton, Butler, Marquette. That’s why they want to move up.
The MIAC wanted them out because of every single women’s sport and about half the guys sports.
 

I disagree (SJU moving up idea). SJU is the type of institution that is a perfect match for D3. They shouldn’t be penalized for being good at football. UST was another matter. Much much larger institution and dominant in all sports across the board. UST had become a bad fit for the MIAC. Becoming dominant in one sport isn’t grounds for leaving. GAC’s tennis program has been more dominating than SJU’s football program. The institutions are similar, and that is why they match up well to share an athletic conference with other similar schools.
When you combine St. Ben's/John's undergrad population, it's pretty close to St. Thomas.
 

I disagree (SJU moving up idea). SJU is the type of institution that is a perfect match for D3. They shouldn’t be penalized for being good at football. UST was another matter. Much much larger institution and dominant in all sports across the board. UST had become a bad fit for the MIAC. Becoming dominant in one sport isn’t grounds for leaving. GAC’s tennis program has been more dominating than SJU’s football program. The institutions are similar, and that is why they match up well to share an athletic conference with other similar schools.
I agree.
 

Concordia should be in that mix too with some built in advantages in that neck of the woods but they refuse to abandon the dumb high school flex-bonish type offense. It helps them win games vs. inferior opponents but limits their upside IMO. It's gotta be tough to recruit top notch QBs and receivers running an option offense.
They are getting a transfer QB from Moorhead State this year.
 



I disagree (SJU moving up idea). SJU is the type of institution that is a perfect match for D3. They shouldn’t be penalized for being good at football. UST was another matter. Much much larger institution and dominant in all sports across the board. UST had become a bad fit for the MIAC. Becoming dominant in one sport isn’t grounds for leaving. GAC’s tennis program has been more dominating than SJU’s football program. The institutions are similar, and that is why they match up well to share an athletic conference with other similar schools.
Yeah I remember SJU voted one way but some comments from their administration echoed that they understood the concerns about the other schools too...

And SJU didn't go chasing St. Thomas either.

Completely different situations and SJU has dominated football in the past and nobody cared.
 

I disagree (SJU moving up idea). SJU is the type of institution that is a perfect match for D3. They shouldn’t be penalized for being good at football. UST was another matter. Much much larger institution and dominant in all sports across the board. UST had become a bad fit for the MIAC. Becoming dominant in one sport isn’t grounds for leaving. GAC’s tennis program has been more dominating than SJU’s football program. The institutions are similar, and that is why they match up well to share an athletic conference with other similar schools.

Agreed. The top national D3 teams, and D2 for that matter, routinely beat weak opponents by high single digit touchdowns. It's that way across the nation and has been for some time. The top teams just want to make it through conference play, with maybe a couple challenging games, before they hit their true direct competition with other top teams in the playoffs. BCS probably isn't that different.
 

When you combine St. Ben's/John's undergrad population, it's pretty close to St. Thomas.
Not really, (closer to half, along with St. Olaf) and institutionally you can’t just ignore grad students because that lends to the type of school you are talking about. Basically a full third of UST enrollment is grad students. Here are enrollments with breakdown between grad and undergrad students. St. John’s/St. Bens combined are a good fit. UST is not.

 
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Not really, (closer to half, along with St. Olaf) and institutionally you can’t just ignore grad students because that lends to the type of school you are talking about. Basically a full third of UST enrollment is grad students. Here are enrollments with breakdown between grad and undergrad students. St. John’s/St. Bens combined are a good fit. UST is not.

Enrollment is really only a disadvantage when your school is so small, maybe less than 1000 undergrads, that you don't have a typical variety of majors. St. Thomas wasn't one of the bigger D3 schools, they just recruited better than most. Many other factors besides enrollment went into that recruiting advantage.
 

Enrollment is really only a disadvantage when your school is so small, maybe less than 1000 undergrads, that you don't have a typical variety of majors. St. Thomas wasn't one of the bigger D3 schools, they just recruited better than most. Many other factors besides enrollment went into that recruiting advantage.
At ~10K students St Thomas appears to have been on of the larger D3 schools. Having looked at the enrollments of the schools at D3 there are two conferences of public colleges / universities in NY and WI that have schools in the 6-15 thousand range. Otherwise most schools were between 1500-4000 students, save for large public institutions like UT at Dallas and UC Santa Cruz and elite universities like Johns Hopkins and RIT which were above 20K students.
 

They can give athletic scholarships, right?
From what I've heard from parents whose kids have been recruited to NAIA schools, there's a lot less oversight than from NCAA schools, so there's a lot of funny business going on (not that there isn't in NCAA ball)
 

I imagine the hardest part of the transition period is recruiting these first couple years. How do you get someone to commit when there's no chance to compete for a championship no matter how slim?
I thought the same thing would happen to NDSU, but it didn't.
 


It does seem like there would be recruiting disadvantages for a D1 school that cannot yet participate in post season play. And yet NDSU is a great example of a school that did did not experience those disadvantages when they were in UST’s situation.

I wonder what some of our more passionate contributors like @harley_gopher feel about this?
 

It does seem like there would be recruiting disadvantages for a D1 school that cannot yet participate in post season play. And yet NDSU is a great example of a school that did did not experience those disadvantages when they were in UST’s situation.

I wonder what some of our more passionate contributors like @harley_gopher feel about this?
I mean their worst two years in D1 were years 5-6

rhey did well in years 1-4 but were playing against a considerably weaker schedule than they are now.


to me that indicates they probably have really stepped up recruiting in year 7+ of d1
 

I mean their worst two years in D1 were years 5-6

rhey did well in years 1-4 but were playing against a considerably weaker schedule than they are now.


to me that indicates they probably have really stepped up recruiting in year 7+ of d1
It's interesting to go back and look at those 2003-2006 NDSU schedules. A few of the opponents also moved to D1 around that time so not much change there from D2. Also, the top of the old NCC was very strong so they probably matched up OK with lower FCS. I've always thought that the best teams in one division could usually compete with mediocre/bad teams in the division above.
 

When you combine St. Ben's/John's undergrad population, it's pretty close to St. Thomas.
St. Thomas has more under grads than Notre Dame. Now let that sink for a minute.
 


It's interesting to go back and look at those 2003-2006 NDSU schedules. A few of the opponents also moved to D1 around that time so not much change there from D2. Also, the top of the old NCC was very strong so they probably matched up OK with lower FCS. I've always thought that the best teams in one division could usually compete with mediocre/bad teams in the division above.
I think the skill level and coaching across CFB land has started to blend together more than in the past ... unless you're talking about the tip top teams.
 


NAIA school in the Chicagoland conference.

You'd think they could do better than that?
Not that uncommon when App State was FCS and upset Michigan in 2007, they played a D 2 team the following week. Personally I've always thought the Bison would be better off scheduling an old NSIC rival once a year than some of the garbage teams like Butler or Incarnate Word that have appeared on their schedule.
 

Not that uncommon when App State was FCS and upset Michigan in 2007, they played a D 2 team the following week. Personally I've always thought the Bison would be better off scheduling an old NSIC rival once a year than some of the garbage teams like Butler or Incarnate Word that have appeared on their schedule.
The difference is not many NCIS teams need the payout to take the beatdown
 




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