Spencer Tollackson: Minnesota "needs a new arena and practice facility"

Donate To GopherHole
Here are my list of needs in order of importance.

1. New Coach
2. New Practice Facility
3. New Arena

I love the Bbarn but I care more about a winning program. Recruits RARELY care about the nostalgia of the Barn unless they are from MN. If the Barn is what is holding us back from being a consistent national contender, then it is time to replace it. I am not saying it is, but I am saying it needs to be considered and not just taken off the list of consideration because it was built in 1928 and has a raised from. Frankly as an arena and the sight lines, it is a mediocre building. Keep the raised floor in a new building if that is what everyone is concerned with.
 

Eye of the Gopher said:
I like the idea of renovating the pavilion to turn it into the practice facility; considering it is already connected to Williams Arena this makes perfect sense to me. To build an entirely different structure over that existing parking lot is a bad idea in my opinion, the "U" is short enough on parking already. I'm not in favor of completely getting rid of Williams Arena, however I do feel it is in need of some significant upgrades, i.e. sound system, scoreboard, seat obstructions etc. Could we renovate the pavilion and do the needed renovations to Williams Arena for under $40 million or in that ballpark?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the proposed practice facility is planned to stand separately so that when time comes to replace Williams Arena or do major renovations it will not be affected.
 

howeda7 said:
Specifically to the raised floor, I'm sure they can find a way to keep that. The other parts that are 40 years past code probably don't need to be kept. The overall design can still be similar.

I have no hate for the Barn and I do think the impact on recruiting can be mimized with a nice practice facility. I just think it's short-sighted to exhaust ourselves raising the funds for that without adressing both, because it seems pretty unlikely to me that they'll be playing in the Barn 15-20 years from now either way. I fear they'll dither around and get the practice facility done around 2018 and by 2025 we'll be talking about tearing it down as part of building the new arena.
Click to expand...

I'd argue that the things that are 40 years past code ARE the only things worth keeping. Otherwise you are getting a Kohl Center.
In my book I will probably be fine with anything they decide to do down the road (keeping Williams or not), but I guess I don't want to jump to a conclusion based on a couple comments from people that really don't have a clue (Spencer T.). I personally think there is a ton of potential in making Williams Arena THEEE college basketball arena in the country. Mixing both modern amenities with the charm of yesterday. Right now its chalk full of charm with little or no modern amenities. Maybe when a new AD gets in over at the U things won't move at such a snails pace and the jumping from project to project (sort of like putting one fire out while another's burning) will end and a more comprehensive plan can emerge where EVERY facility is important and taken care of.
 

Golden Shower said:
Here are my list of needs in order of importance.

1. New Coach
2. New Practice Facility
3. New Arena

I love the Bbarn but I care more about a winning program. Recruits RARELY care about the nostalgia of the Barn unless they are from MN. If the Barn is what is holding us back from being a consistent national contender, then it is time to replace it. I am not saying it is, but I am saying it needs to be considered and not just taken off the list of consideration because it was built in 1928 and has a raised from. Frankly as an arena and the sight lines, it is a mediocre building. Keep the raised floor in a new building if that is what everyone is concerned with.
Click to expand...

You can spin the Barn into something that's attractive and an asset. You can't spin the lack of competitive practice and meeting facilities. It's a gaping hole.
 



station19 said:
I'm guessing the proposed practice facility is planned to stand separately so that when time comes to replace Williams Arena or do major renovations it will not be affected.
Click to expand...

it will be separate and connected by a tunnel
 

GoGophers2005 said:
But yet Indiana can recruit to Assembly Hall? Probably the worst arena in the country? I think we are putting wayyyy too much on speculation that Williams Arena is the problem.

In the end, in order for Williams Arena to be successul for the next 10 years and more importantly the next 50 years is its flexibility. Like I said earlier, bring in a design team that can give us a 25-50 year plan (outside of standard upkeep) for Williams Arena and its surroundings. There is no doubt in my mind you could make Williams Arena be what everyone on this board wants (new arena, charm, bridge to the past, recruiting gem, etc.) all in one building. It takes a vision and a commitment to do that.
Click to expand...

Why do you say that? Assembly Hall isn't even remotely close to the worst arena in the country. Plus, you want history? That building has it. The Barn? Not so much.

Build a new one. Check out Mizzou Arena or the Galen Center. Outstanding new buildings with old-time charm, yet all the modern amenities. "Relatively" inexpensive (between $75-$150 million).

Obviously, I love the Barn, but I have to side with the "time for a new one" campaign. And, I fully understand many will disagree.

As for the code issues, there are reasons for code. God forbid if that place ever caught fire during an event. Or, a tress gives out.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
I'd argue that the things that are 40 years past code ARE the only things worth keeping. Otherwise you are getting a Kohl Center.
In my book I will probably be fine with anything they decide to do down the road (keeping Williams or not), but I guess I don't want to jump to a conclusion based on a couple comments from people that really don't have a clue (Spencer T.). I personally think there is a ton of potential in making Williams Arena THEEE college basketball arena in the country. Mixing both modern amenities with the charm of yesterday. Right now its chalk full of charm with little or no modern amenities. Maybe when a new AD gets in over at the U things won't move at such a snails pace and the jumping from project to project (sort of like putting one fire out while another's burning) will end and a more comprehensive plan can emerge where EVERY facility is important and taken care of.
Click to expand...

You know what I like about Spencer? He's an ex Gopher that has passion for the program. We need as many of him as we can get. Otherwise I agree with you.
 

tjgopher said:
Why do you say that? Assembly Hall isn't even remotely close to the worst arena in the country. Plus, you want history? That building has it. The Barn? Not so much.

Build a new one. Check out Mizzou Arena or the Galen Center. Outstanding new buildings with old-time charm, yet all the modern amenities. "Relatively" inexpensive (between $75-$150 million).

Obviously, I love the Barn, but I have to side with the "time for a new one" campaign. And, I fully understand many will disagree.

As for the code issues, there are reasons for code. God forbid if that place ever caught fire during an event. Or, a tress gives out.
Click to expand...

Assembly Hall might have the history but it also has pull out bleachers for seating and some of the worst sight lines of any arena in the Big Ten. The 1970's were not the golden age of arena architecture. It was all about craming as many sports into one facility.

That steel that is holding up the roof and stands at Williams Arena is probably 5 times the sizes that it needed to be. The technology today to size beams and structure are much more elaborate.
 



GoGophers2005 said:
Assembly Hall might have the history but it also has pull out bleachers for seating and some of the worst sight lines of any arena in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

Boy, I'd disagree. I've been to a handful of games at AH in Bloomington. I think the sight lines are really good. The sideline seating actually curls around the floor to maximize the seat sight line. In other words even near the baseline, the seat faces center court; unlike the Barn where if I'm on the baseline, I am facing straight at the baseline and need to turn my head toward the center of the floor and that's if I'm lucky enough to not have a beam in front of me. The only problem with AH is how far away some of the upper deck seats are away from the floor (which, of course, is a strong suit of the Barn).

As for pullout seating, it is no worse than the bench seating in the student section and upper seating in both levels at Williams.
 

Golden Shower said:
Here are my list of needs in order of importance.

1. New Coach
2. New Practice Facility
3. New Arena

I love the Bbarn but I care more about a winning program. Recruits RARELY care about the nostalgia of the Barn unless they are from MN. If the Barn is what is holding us back from being a consistent national contender, then it is time to replace it. I am not saying it is, but I am saying it needs to be considered and not just taken off the list of consideration because it was built in 1928 and has a raised from. Frankly as an arena and the sight lines, it is a mediocre building. Keep the raised floor in a new building if that is what everyone is concerned with.
Click to expand...

Shower- I think you ahve the right idea- the order is wrong IMO:

New AD
New vision and plans for facilities- with dates for deliverables
Then go get your new coach- once you have something to sell him on. That way you get a good coach that's here for the right reason.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
but I guess I don't want to jump to a conclusion based on a couple comments from people that really don't have a clue (Spencer T.).
Click to expand...

Great point. Like Spencer has a clue. You have so much more invested in Gopher Basketball and Williams Arena than Spencer. It's not like he grew up in Minnesota going to games, had the opportunity to compare the program/facility with others that were recruiting him, spent almost every day in the arena for four years and then continued to be involved in the program as a radio analyst. What does he know?
 

Leave WA alone!

There was not a problem putting 18,000 fans in the Barn during the Bill M era.
 




Maximus said:
Great point. Like Spencer has a clue. You have so much more invested in Gopher Basketball and Williams Arena than Spencer. It's not like he grew up in Minnesota going to games, had the opportunity to compare the program/facility with others that were recruiting him, spent almost every day in the arena for four years and then continued to be involved in the program as a radio analyst. What does he know?
Click to expand...

I guess my statement was more towards a 24 year old kid making a general comment about an 80 year old building and wanting to flush it down the toilet for what reason? He doesn't have a clue what could be done, and not done, to Williams to make it a better arena. I don't doubt his Gopher pride, I just doubt his architecture skills.
 

One minor issue with Spencer's logic: If the Gopher plays at Target Center, it's not a home game. It's a road game. Clem said so.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
I'd argue that the things that are 40 years past code ARE the only things worth keeping. Otherwise you are getting a Kohl Center.
In my book I will probably be fine with anything they decide to do down the road (keeping Williams or not), but I guess I don't want to jump to a conclusion based on a couple comments from people that really don't have a clue (Spencer T.). I personally think there is a ton of potential in making Williams Arena THEEE college basketball arena in the country. Mixing both modern amenities with the charm of yesterday. Right now its chalk full of charm with little or no modern amenities. Maybe when a new AD gets in over at the U things won't move at such a snails pace and the jumping from project to project (sort of like putting one fire out while another's burning) will end and a more comprehensive plan can emerge where EVERY facility is important and taken care of.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I think it's a long way from that. Certainly it's possible a major renovation could work. But when you're talking about a building that's approaching 100, I'm inclined to think a complete re-do with efforts to keep the things that made is special is better.

Either way, a new AD with a real vision is what is needed most. Joel's still trying to measure hose and find water to put out fires from 5 years ago, he certainly has not time for comprehensive plans.
 

For those that want to keep the barn, get your checkbooks out. After replacing the floor, they now have to replace the roof. Deck chairs on the Titanic.
 

Maximus said:
For those that want to keep the barn, get your checkbooks out. After replacing the floor, they now have to replace the roof. Deck chairs on the Titanic.
Click to expand...

Yep, tear the building down because it needs a new roof. Are you going to tear your house down when it needs a new roof?
 

It would feel pretty nostalgic if they had been winning the last 10 years..
 

GoGophers2005 said:
Yep, tear the building down because it needs a new roof. Are you going to tear your house down when it needs a new roof?
Click to expand...

Well, if my house was nearly 100 years old and all of my neighbors had brand new, fancy houses with all of the amenities, I would likely doing more to it than replace the eroding roof, yes. Especially when the cost of a brand new house would likely be around the same cost as a major renovation of my old house.

The Crisler Arena project is approaching $100 million for everything. I am guessing the Barn renovation would be in that neighborhood (although you seem to be the architectural expert, so maybe you can help us on that estimate). I think it suits things better to just go to a nice, new retro arena like Missouri, USC, Virginia, and others have done. Brand new arenas have been built for around $80-$150 million.

And, assuming we'd need to play away from Williams Arena for a season or two, I would actually just go across the street and play them at Mariucci, keeping revenue in-house, saving on rent, and continuing to play on campus. It'd be a pain in the ass logistically for a year or two with scheduling, ticketing, etc., but it is possible. They've played hoops in that building before.
 

The fact that people are talking about needing/getting a "new" barn while the school doesn't have money for a practice facility is priceless.
 

tjgopher said:
Well, if my house was nearly 100 years old and all of my neighbors had brand new, fancy houses with all of the amenities, I would likely doing more to it than replace the eroding roof, yes. Especially when the cost of a brand new house would likely be around the same cost as a major renovation of my old house.

The Crisler Arena project is approaching $100 million for everything. I am guessing the Barn renovation would be in that neighborhood (although you seem to be the architectural expert, so maybe you can help us on that estimate). I think it suits things better to just go to a nice, new retro arena like Missouri, USC, Virginia, and others have done. Brand new arenas have been built for around $80-$150 million.

And, assuming we'd need to play away from Williams Arena for a season or two, I would actually just go across the street and play them at Mariucci, keeping revenue in-house, saving on rent, and continuing to play on campus. It'd be a pain in the ass logistically for a year or two with scheduling, ticketing, etc., but it is possible. They've played hoops in that building before.
Click to expand...

That is your decision to make to tear down the house (and a decision the U needs to make at some point on Williams Arena) but I guess my response was directed at how the sky was falling because the roof needed to be replaced. Target Center just got a new roof 2 years ago. Roofs do not last forever. Nothing does, everything requires some form of upkeep. A brand new spanking arena will need a new roof in 20-30 years and probably a renovation around the same time. Are we in the buisiness of just throwing old things out and building brand new all the time? I suppose that is an easy frame of mind in the United States but that isn't the case in 98% of the world. As I said, get Populous in here and put together a 50 year plan for Williams Arena and put together some sketches to release to the public. It will take sketches and pretty pictures to convince all the anti-Williams people what it could look like.

If they UofM spent $100 million on Williams Arena we would all be very happy people.
 

tikited said:
The fact that people are talking about needing/getting a "new" barn while the school doesn't have money for a practice facility is priceless.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If the Vikings stadium solution is going to be an ongoing fund of gambling money, the U may want to get in on it. They hitched TCF to the Twins wagon, they could hitch new Williams Arena with practice facility to the Vikings. As before, you know the Legislature can't say 'Yes' to $600 million for Ziggy while saying 'No' to $150 million for the U, so it's an easy sell. But I don't think anyone at the U is actually talking about this, so it's not happening.
 

tikited said:
The fact that people are talking about needing/getting a "new" barn while the school doesn't have money for a practice facility is priceless.
Click to expand...

tikited- it sounds odd, but sometimes you can sell a big ticket, big dream item better than you can sell something smaller. In this day of naming rights, ticket licenses, executive boxes you can find some financial justifications that are easier to make at the 100 million than you can at the 15 million level. You need the right person making the pitch at the right time. Maturi is not the guy. If they had any sense they would be over talking with the legislature about tagging along with the Vikings bill for 25 to 50 million of the cost.
 

howeda7 said:
Not necessarily. If the Vikings stadium solution is going to be an ongoing fund of gambling money, the U may want to get in on it. They hitched TCF to the Twins wagon, they could hitch new Williams Arena with practice facility to the Vikings. But I don't think anyone at the U is actually talking about this, so it's not happening.
Click to expand...

Not to mention, some key folks believe it will be 'easier' to raise money for a major project like this. You're probably looking at $25-$40 million in naming rights, $10-$15 million in student generated fees, some state tax dollar contributions, etc.

Raising money for only a 'practice facility' is hard at a place like Minnesota in an economic climate like this. Although, there seems to be little doubt that the fundraising efforts have somehow been mishandled to this point.

EDIT - bga - you and I were posting at the same time, same point.
 

Interim

tjgopher said:
And, assuming we'd need to play away from Williams Arena for a season or two, I would actually just go across the street and play them at Mariucci, keeping revenue in-house, saving on rent, and continuing to play on campus. It'd be a pain in the ass logistically for a year or two with scheduling, ticketing, etc., but it is possible. They've played hoops in that building before.
Click to expand...

When the time comes for the Gophers to play in temporary arenas, my guess is that they would use various arenas in the TC area (much like UCLA is doing this year). For the Exhibition games, they could be played in the Pavalion (assuming it isn't razed for the upgrade/remodel/redo), otherwise they surely could use Mariucci, Target Center, Xcel and possibly even the Dome (or whatever new incarnation exists at that time) depending on availability/opponent.

Personally, I think something needs to happen by the end of this decade. The upper deck is a complete joke, no restrooms, no concessions, no elevators, mostly bench seating.

To quote Spencer from last week on ESPN 1500, "Someone needs to light a match and walk away."
 

Ope3 said:
When the time comes for the Gophers to play in temporary arenas, my guess is that they would use various arenas in the TC area (much like UCLA is doing this year). For the Exhibition games, they could be played in the Pavalion (assuming it isn't razed for the upgrade/remodel/redo), otherwise they surely could use Mariucci, Target Center, Xcel and possibly even the Dome (or whatever new incarnation exists at that time) depending on availability/opponent.

Personally, I think something needs to happen by the end of this decade. The upper deck is a complete joke, no restrooms, no concessions, no elevators, mostly bench seating.

To quote Spencer from last week on ESPN 1500, "Someone needs to light a match and walk away."
Click to expand...

Add a significant addition along University Ave. and I see escalators and as many elevators as you would ever want connecting to the second deck. A nice concession area could be added as well as restrooms ALL UP ON THE SECOND LEVEL. I could also see the U going towards making a whole side of the 2nd deck a 'Club' with its own seating (similar to TCF Bank and Mariucci). I know they currently have a club, but lets be honest its a joke and needs to be totally rethought out.
 

bga1 said:
tikited- it sounds odd, but sometimes you can sell a big ticket, big dream item better than you can sell something smaller. In this day of naming rights, ticket licenses, executive boxes you can find some financial justifications that are easier to make at the 100 million than you can at the 15 million level. You need the right person making the pitch at the right time. Maturi is not the guy. If they had any sense they would be over talking with the legislature about tagging along with the Vikings bill for 25 to 50 million of the cost.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but I really believe this would be one of those times where we look back five years into the "new" era and wonder..."why did we ever do that?"


Finding a point guard could make a lot of people forget this whole thing imo.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom