Sparty Postgame Reactions thread 1/25

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Coleman is pretty fearless, Austin, not so much. I find it difficult to fathom Austin comes out of a game like this with 0 personal fouls. Green was too much for Williams to handle and it wasn't like Rodney didn't try. Impressive atmosphere. Congrats to Izzo. 400 is a lot of W's. He's obviously a good coach who gets good players and runs a successful program. Seems like his players appreciate him, which I think is important and sometimes overlooked in the whole scheme of things. I think it might win you a big game or two over the course of a season. Bring on the Illini.
 

tap said:
izzo gets away with murder on the sidelines at home. I think the refs are scared of his 5' 5" frame. In his mind msu never fouls or turns the ball over much like the grinch at sconnie. His goons tonight never left the lane but again with the msu education they probably can't count to three.
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Crean was the worst offender I saw this season. He was always on court. I love Tubby and I'm happy he's the coach here, but he should really take a cue from other coaches around the league. When you get in the faces of refs, yell and scream, you get more calls, especially when you're at home. It makes you look like a jerk, but sometimes you do what you've got to do.
 

Winnipegopher said:
Random thoughts:

-Izzo should get a T when he comes on the court during play. 10 minutes left in the first half, he came within three feet of a Gopher player while the Gophers were running their O.
-How is it that Michigan State is able to give so much prime seating to students? It must be a revenue loss but what a great atmosphere.
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I like what Jason Kidd did a couple years ago in the NBA when he saw the opposing coach on the floor- he dribbled right into him and got the technical called on the coach. Would have been cool to see a Gophers guard back up four feet and run into Izzo. The refs would have had to have a 5 minute conference to see if they can T up Izzo especially on his special night.

- That crowd last night was better than any I have seen in a couple of years. That would have been really fun to be there. It looked like they had a couple rows behind the Gophers bench for the Gophers fans and another section across from the Spartans bench for their high rollers but other than that about 15 rows of kids. Hard to do in the Barn but maybe when they build the new PoleShed.
 

Beat the teams on a given night you're capable of beating. All you had to do was "look" at MSU and you can see we don't matchup well on the physical side.
They had 7 putbacks in the first half ( 14 points) We can beat Illinois at home and we can beat Iowa on the road if we have an "Indiana" type of performance.
On a side note. We really do miss the size and strength of Mo Walker.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Beat the teams on a given night you're capable of beating. All you had to do was "look" at MSU and you can see we don't matchup well on the physical side.
They had 7 putbacks in the first half ( 14 points) We can beat Illinois at home and we can beat Iowa on the road if we have an "Indiana" type of performance.
On a side note. We really do miss the size and strength of Mo Walker.
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+1
 


ruppertflywheel said:
Beat the teams on a given night you're capable of beating. All you had to do was "look" at MSU and you can see we don't matchup well on the physical side.
They had 7 putbacks in the first half ( 14 points) We can beat Illinois at home and we can beat Iowa on the road if we have an "Indiana" type of performance.
On a side note. We really do miss the size and strength of Mo Walker.
Click to expand...

We can beat Nebraska on the road and Wisconsin at home as well.

A 4-Game win streak is not out of the question (7-5). I assume a loss against tOSU (7-6). Win at NW (8-6) lose to MSU at home (8-7). Beat Indiana at home (9-7). Lose at Wisconsin (9-8) and beat Nebraska at home (10-8) to close the season with an NCAA tourney bid and above .500 in the B1G. 9-9 or 10-8 is still not out of the question for me and doesn't seem terribly unreasonable. Gotta start Saturday though, with a win over Illinois.
 

Atl Gopher said:
Dre 0 for 5, Austin 0 for 2, Mav 0 for 2, Julian 2 for 8. That adds up to 2 for 17 - 12% from your guards. Many of those shots were open some were not. They did work hard, but you are not going to win too many games with that type of productivityj; Trevor or no Trevor; Mo or no Mo.
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one of Julian's makes was a pass that missed it's mark, too
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Nope. Last year was our year & things didn't work out. We'd already beaten Mich/Purdue/UNC & WVU. The toughest part of our schedule was over. We were ranked #15 in the nation & getting Devoe Joseph back. Then Devoe transferred & Nolen got hurt, season over. You can't say Tubby didn't have us position to do some serious damage, because he did & it didn't work out. Sucks.

Now he has the youngest team in the B1G, where 7 of 10 in his rotation are underclassmen & we're rebuilding. This young nucleus will be very good if the fans can be patient, allow them to take some lumps & learn together. Or, we could fire Tubby, lose half our players to transfer, hire a new coach & start the rebuilding process again.
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Yeah, for some reason, people like making blanket statements about a tenure as though there have been ZERO extenuating circumstances that have influenced the position we are in. Regardless to whether you blame Tubby for all of the transfers or not, he has had some ridiculously bad fortune the last couple years. All it has left us in rebuilding mode, yes. But at least we're rebuilding with a core of young guys that could develop into something pretty darn good.

Regarding this game, MSU just had too much in the paint. That Coleman steal turned into flagrant foul was definitely that "turning" point that really hurt momentum. It happens, that's why MSU is so good, that's why Izzo has 400 wins, his teams are tough, well-coached, and especially at home, they are hard to make runs on. I'll be curious how the re-match at the Barn goes, I think we could have a shot at them there.

Nothing about this game soured my thoughts on the potential that is there with this squad the rest of the year. Just makes the Illinois game all the more crucial to get.
 

Monty519 said:
Yeah, for some reason, people like making blanket statements about a tenure as though there have been ZERO extenuating circumstances that have influenced the position we are in. Regardless to whether you blame Tubby for all of the transfers or not, he has had some ridiculously bad fortune the last couple years. All it has left us in rebuilding mode, yes. But at least we're rebuilding with a core of young guys that could develop into something pretty darn good.

Regarding this game, MSU just had too much in the paint. That Coleman steal turned into flagrant foul was definitely that "turning" point that really hurt momentum. It happens, that's why MSU is so good, that's why Izzo has 400 wins, his teams are tough, well-coached, and especially at home, they are hard to make runs on. I'll be curious how the re-match at the Barn goes, I think we could have a shot at them there.

Nothing about this game soured my thoughts on the potential that is there with this squad the rest of the year. Just makes the Illinois game all the more crucial to get.
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Very good post.

And to those saying that Tubby "Can't Coach" for all the comments about Izzo's great coaching because he got 400 wins, Tubby got 400 wins in 2007-2008 during his 17th season. Izzo got it here in 2011-2012 during his 17th season. While I'd still say Izzo is the better coach, people need to stop acting like Tubby is chopped liver.
 



I haven't read this entire thread so excuse me if this was already mentioned.

I do wonder what would've happened if Joe hadn't fumbled the ball right after that steal when we were down 5. That was THE momentum killer.
 

Atl Gopher said:
Dre 0 for 5, Austin 0 for 2, Mav 0 for 2, Julian 2 for 8. That adds up to 2 for 17 - 12% from your guards.
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12% from THOSE guards. We did have other guards play that took and made shots.
- Joe Coleman. Guard. 2-5
- Chip Armelin. Guard. 2-5

But good job selectively choosing data to make a point!
 

this notion that Minnesota has the youngest team in the conference is all how you want to look at it. if average class year per minute is used than Ohio St, Illinois and Penn St rotations are all younger than Minnesota's.
 

scools12 said:
this notion that Minnesota has the youngest team in the conference is all how you want to look at it. if average class year per minute is used than Ohio St, Illinois and Penn St rotations are all younger than Minnesota's.
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Tis true. Using this method, MN averages a Sophomore who is 3-4 months into college. Ohio State averages a sophomore entering their 2nd month of college.

MathBusters verdict: Confirmed!
 



scools12 said:
this notion that Minnesota has the youngest team in the conference is all how you want to look at it. if average class year per minute is used than Ohio St, Illinois and Penn St rotations are all younger than Minnesota's.
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Being in the rotation or being a contributor to me is someone who plays every night (unless they are hurt) and average 10+ minutes. We have 10 guys in our rotation, 9 for Ohio St. and 8 for Illinois. Penn St. is younger than us for sure. Ohio St. it depends on how you look at it. Illinois, virtually every way you look at it is not younger than us (and it's not even close in my opinion).

By using your method, Illinois is about 2-3 months more experienced than us. Using players who average 10+ minutes a game, the following are the percentage of minutes played by class.

Illinois
Seniors: 13.4%
Juniors: 41.6%
Sophomores: 24.7%
Freshman: 14.7%

Ohio St.
Senior: 16%
Junior: 6.1%
Sophomores: 45.5%
Freshman: 11.4%

MN
Senior: 11.6%
Junior: 27.6%
Sophomore: 29.4%
Freshman: 26.9%

Of the three, we have the least amount of rotation minutes coming from seniors, and by far the most from freshmen. 56.3% of our minutes come from underclassmen, 56.9% for Ohio St., and just 39.4% for Illinois.

Disclaimer: I know the percentages don't equal 100%. That's because I'm not including minutes from players who don't play much or are in mop up situations.
 

Anyone else brought up the inbounds play where chip turned it over by not passing it in to anyone even though we had people open? I am still pissed about that one. We need to play smarter than that. I think we gave M. St. 5 possessions in a row while we didn't even get a shot at the basket.
 

scher215 said:
Very good post.

And to those saying that Tubby "Can't Coach" for all the comments about Izzo's great coaching because he got 400 wins, Tubby got 400 wins in 2007-2008 during his 17th season. Izzo got it here in 2011-2012 during his 17th season. While I'd still say Izzo is the better coach, people need to stop acting like Tubby is chopped liver.
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Izzo's record is a product of what he built. Tubby's record is more a product
of what he was given.
 

To those who keep saying that the Gophs played hard and just didn't matchup with Sparty,
you are correct. But why is it so hard to see that as long as Tubby is coach, that will ALWAYS be the situation? Unable to matchup with teams that will contend for the conference. If having a decent team that beats the non-con nobodies(and a sched. that contains few if any non-con somebodies)
and if injuries don't hurt can threaten for .500, is your thing, then he's the right man. But if we want to see the Gophs challenge for a B10 title, or make some kind of NCAA run, he can't get it done.
 

Whathavewedone said:
Izzo's record is a product of what he built. Tubby's record is more a product
of what he was given.
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It still takes a good coach to maintain that success, and he did that for most of his career at Kentucky. If it were easy, then Billy Gillispie would have been more successful than he was.
 

Whathavewedone said:
Izzo's record is a product of what he built. Tubby's record is more a product
of what he was given.
Click to expand...

Gosh, you know, you are so right here.

I can't believe I didn't realize the world beating Tulsa team that Tubby was given and accounted for 20% of those 400 wins. Or even that absolutley dominant Georgia team he inherited that got 11% of those 400 wins. And, god bless Rick Pitino for giving Tubby all of those players who completely coached themselves through practice and games. He even kept providing those wonderful self coaching players to Tubby for his entire 10 year tenure. He really came through for ole coach Smith in year 5 when he went undefeated in the SEC and to the elite 8. What. A. Guy.

I sure hope Tubby sends fruit baskets to all of those people every christmas.

Now that I'm done being sarcastic with you (BTW, can you PLEASE just go back to the UK board and enjoy your last year of Cal before he jumps for the Wizards and you are stuck replacing yet another coach?)

Record from year 5 forward (When we assume they no longer were "given" any recruits from the prior regime.)

Tom Izzo: 312 - 124 .716 (12 1/2 years at MSU)
Tubby Smith: 168 - 56 .750 (6 years at UK, 1/2 year at MN)

But hey, good try!

As I said, I still give the nod to Izzo as he has had more tourney success than Tubby, but to say that Izzo has been better with his own recruits in terms of winning percentage than Tubby has is completely and utterly wrong. And that program that Izzo "built" (I agree he has done a lot to advance that program) but the coach before Izzo, won a national championship at MSU as well. He didn't exactly inherit a crap program.

In fact, feel free to compare their careers here:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/compare?add=tom-izzo&c1=tubby-smith
 

Whathavewedone said:
To those who keep saying that the Gophs played hard and just didn't matchup with Sparty,
you are correct. But why is it so hard to see that as long as Tubby is coach, that will ALWAYS be the situation?
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What you fail to understand is that is the case this year only because Trevor and Big Mo are hurt. If we had both of them healthy, I think we match up quite well with Michigan St.. We have one "banger" healthy right now and he's a freshman.

Just because people disagree with your statements does not mean they all are satisfied with the results we've seen so far.
 

GophersInIowa said:
What you fail to understand is that is the case this year only because Trevor and Big Mo are hurt. If we had both of them healthy, I think we match up quite well with Michigan St.. We have one "banger" healthy right now and he's a freshman.

Just because people disagree with your statements does not mean they all are satisfied with the results we've seen so far.
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X is hurt, Y tnasferred, Z went somewhere else. It's ALWAYS the same.
ALWAYS an alibi, ALWAYS an excuse. It's not going to change. If he stays
and no one's hurt, then it will be m and n couldn't get along, or b and c
couldn't grasp the offense. Looks to me like no one should be content
to contend for the middle of the pack every year as the best of outcomes.
 

scher215 said:
Gosh, you know, you are so right here.

I can't believe I didn't realize the world beating Tulsa team that Tubby was given and accounted for 20% of those 400 wins. Or even that absolutley dominant Georgia team he inherited that got 11% of those 400 wins. And, god bless Rick Pitino for giving Tubby all of those players who completely coached themselves through practice and games. He even kept providing those wonderful self coaching players to Tubby for his entire 10 year tenure. He really came through for ole coach Smith in year 5 when he went undefeated in the SEC and to the elite 8. What. A. Guy.

I sure hope Tubby sends fruit baskets to all of those people every christmas.

Now that I'm done being sarcastic with you (BTW, can you PLEASE just go back to the UK board and enjoy your last year of Cal before he jumps for the Wizards and you are stuck replacing yet another coach?)

Record from year 5 forward (When we assume they no longer were "given" any recruits from the prior regime.)

Tom Izzo: 312 - 124 .716 (12 1/2 years at MSU)
Tubby Smith: 168 - 56 .750 (6 years at UK, 1/2 year at MN)

But hey, good try!

As I said, I still give the nod to Izzo as he has had more tourney success than Tubby, but to say that Izzo has been better with his own recruits in terms of winning percentage than Tubby has is completely and utterly wrong. And that program that Izzo "built" (I agree he has done a lot to advance that program) but the coach before Izzo, won a national championship at MSU as well. He didn't exactly inherit a crap program.

In fact, feel free to compare their careers here:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/compare?add=tom-izzo&c1=tubby-smith
Click to expand...

Try looking at what he inherited. At Tulsa a team that was used to winning its conference and going to the NCAA as its rep quite a bit. he didn't have to rebuild there. he stepped in and it stayed at about the same level. At Georgia he inherited a team that was on average about a 19-12 program that got NCAA bids every other
year or two. It didn't get any better. At Kentucky he was handed a turnkey
team with several further pro players that he didn't have to build. At no place
did he have to do what's required here, build up something from the bottom.
And at his longest stop, he took the program from near the top to the bubble.
That winning percentage you cite there was declining precipitously.

I don't see any NCAA vets, or solid All-American candidates here. So I don't
expect him to do something now he's never done before: BUILD a contending
program. And the job is only going to get harder. And contrary to what the idiot media want to believe, the B10 has been down the last 3 seasons. IU looks like it's finally getting back. Iowa is no longer abysmal. Purdue has also suffered from
injuries as the "fans" at MSU reminded everyone. Now that Nebraska is in, they may start developing their program. Illinois has shown some signs of life this year,
and Michigan is flirting with returning to relevance. He's had little success in a weak environment, why expect a new development from him, in an even tougher situation?
 

Whathavewedone said:
Try looking at what he inherited. At Tulsa a team that was used to winning its conference and going to the NCAA as its rep quite a bit. he didn't have to rebuild there. he stepped in and it stayed at about the same level. At Georgia he inherited a team that was on average about a 19-12 program that got NCAA bids every other
year or two. It didn't get any better. At Kentucky he was handed a turnkey
team with several further pro players that he didn't have to build. At no place
did he have to do what's required here, build up something from the bottom.
And at his longest stop, he took the program from near the top to the bubble.
That winning percentage you cite there was declining precipitously.

I don't see any NCAA vets, or solid All-American candidates here. So I don't
expect him to do something now he's never done before: BUILD a contending
program. And the job is only going to get harder. And contrary to what the idiot media want to believe, the B10 has been down the last 3 seasons. IU looks like it's finally getting back. Iowa is no longer abysmal. Purdue has also suffered from
injuries as the "fans" at MSU reminded everyone. Now that Nebraska is in, they may start developing their program. Illinois has shown some signs of life this year,
and Michigan is flirting with returning to relevance. He's had little success in a weak environment, why expect a new development from him, in an even tougher situation?
Click to expand...

So izzo inheriting a team that's prior coach had a 20+ year tenure. Won a national title. Finished top 5 in the B1G 10 times, the year before Izzo takes over finishing 2nd in the conference at 22-6 (14-4) is a "rebuilding" job huh?

No doubt izzo advanced the program and had great tournament success, but to say he "built" MSU is a little off, IMO. They were already pretty good before him. Compare what he inherited at MSU to Tubby at Minnesota and it isn't even close.
 

Monty519 said:
Yeah, for some reason, people like making blanket statements about a tenure as though there have been ZERO extenuating circumstances that have influenced the position we are in. Regardless to whether you blame Tubby for all of the transfers or not, he has had some ridiculously bad fortune the last couple years. All it has left us in rebuilding mode, yes. But at least we're rebuilding with a core of young guys that could develop into something pretty darn good.

Regarding this game, MSU just had too much in the paint. That Coleman steal turned into flagrant foul was definitely that "turning" point that really hurt momentum. It happens, that's why MSU is so good, that's why Izzo has 400 wins, his teams are tough, well-coached, and especially at home, they are hard to make runs on. I'll be curious how the re-match at the Barn goes, I think we could have a shot at them there.

Nothing about this game soured my thoughts on the potential that is there with this squad the rest of the year. Just makes the Illinois game all the more crucial to get.
Click to expand...

+1
 

Whathavewedone said:
Try looking at what he inherited. At Tulsa a team that was used to winning its conference and going to the NCAA as its rep quite a bit. he didn't have to rebuild there. he stepped in and it stayed at about the same level. At Georgia he inherited a team that was on average about a 19-12 program that got NCAA bids every other
year or two. It didn't get any better. At Kentucky he was handed a turnkey
team with several further pro players that he didn't have to build. At no place
did he have to do what's required here, build up something from the bottom.
And at his longest stop, he took the program from near the top to the bubble.
That winning percentage you cite there was declining precipitously.

I don't see any NCAA vets, or solid All-American candidates here. So I don't
expect him to do something now he's never done before: BUILD a contending
program. And the job is only going to get harder. And contrary to what the idiot media want to believe, the B10 has been down the last 3 seasons. IU looks like it's finally getting back. Iowa is no longer abysmal. Purdue has also suffered from
injuries as the "fans" at MSU reminded everyone. Now that Nebraska is in, they may start developing their program. Illinois has shown some signs of life this year,
and Michigan is flirting with returning to relevance. He's had little success in a weak environment, why expect a new development from him, in an even tougher situation?
Click to expand...

You are wrong about Tulsa. Tubby's 4 seasons at Tulsa are below. He didn't inherit an NCAA tournament team. But it did go to the NIT the previous 2 years before his arrival.
But these numbers suggest that after 2 years of coaching and recruiting things looked pretty good as I am sure he didn't recuit a single player that played in the NCAA tournament for 2 years in a row. Please Take 5 minutes to look at Wikipedia before saying stupid stuff

1991-92 17-13 12-6 none none
1992-93 15-14 10-8 none none
1993-94 23-8 15-3 MVC Regular Season NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1994-95 24-8 15-3 MVC Regular Season NCAA Sweet Sixteen
 

notagopherfan said:
You are wrong about Tulsa. Tubby's 4 seasons at Tulsa are below. He didn't inherit an NCAA tournament team. But it did go to the NIT the previous 2 years before his arrival.
But these numbers suggest that after 2 years of coaching and recruiting things looked pretty good as I am sure he didn't recuit a single player that played in the NCAA tournament for 2 years in a row. Please Take 5 minutes to look at Wikipedia before saying stupid stuff

1991-92 17-13 12-6 none none
1992-93 15-14 10-8 none none
1993-94 23-8 15-3 MVC Regular Season NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1994-95 24-8 15-3 MVC Regular Season NCAA Sweet Sixteen
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Seems like you're not grasping the point here. Tubby stepped into
a Tulsa program that was NOT in the basement as he did here in
Gopherland. It was a program that was on solid foundation and was
no stranger to NCAA bids, nor big winning seasons and conference
titles. And was seen as a good stepping stone job for coaches.
He didn't come in to a train wreck there and have to rebuild it.
And at UGA, Hugh Durham had a solid program in place, that annually
flirted with NCAA bids and chalked up 20 wins seasons or close.
And at Kentucky he stepped in to a ready made championship team.

At no location did he have to build anything up, and at the only
location he stayed 5 years, he had the program in drastic decline.
This is 5 years here. It's up from his starting point, but how could
is not have improved for virtually any new hire? And excuse and alibi
all you want, it's NOT getting better. The Gophs don't have a history that
says they should be a regular FF treat. They do have a history that
says they should be competitive for the top of the B10 occasionally.
And IT AIN'T HAPPENIN!
 

Whathavewedone said:
Seems like you're not grasping the point here. Tubby stepped into
a Tulsa program that was NOT in the basement as he did here in
Gopherland. It was a program that was on solid foundation and was
no stranger to NCAA bids, nor big winning seasons and conference
titles. And was seen as a good stepping stone job for coaches.
He didn't come in to a train wreck there and have to rebuild it.
And at UGA, Hugh Durham had a solid program in place, that annually
flirted with NCAA bids and chalked up 20 wins seasons or close.
And at Kentucky he stepped in to a ready made championship team.

At no location did he have to build anything up, and at the only
location he stayed 5 years, he had the program in drastic decline.
This is 5 years here. It's up from his starting point, but how could
is not have improved for virtually any new hire? And excuse and alibi
all you want, it's NOT getting better. The Gophs don't have a history that
says they should be a regular FF treat. They do have a history that
says they should be competitive for the top of the B10 occasionally.
And IT AIN'T HAPPENIN!
Click to expand...

Ok genius..in the last 40 years all time, the Gophers have been to NCAA tournament 11 times.. if you throw the ones for academic, because they really don't count it's 7. 2 of those by Tubby, So in reality Tubby is resonsible for 29% of the programs NCAA appearances. They haven't won the Big Ten but twice in the last 40 years.. throwing 1997 because it doesn't count. So they don't have a history of a whole lot of success at all, except for the cheating years and again, those don't count.

So if Tubby gets them to an NCAA tournament again this year, he'd have to be considered one of the most successful coaches they've ever had.
 


zambam said:
If the early 1900s are all you count as history.
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funny how the history of an prgoram only matters when it backs an argument. when this comes up on the football board the history of that program pre 70's seems to matter awhole lot.
 

scools12 said:
funny how the history of an prgoram only matters when it backs an argument. when this comes up on the football board the history of that program pre 70's seems to matter awhole lot.
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I don't think it matters at all. But that's just me.
 

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