Sparty had Hawks beat in Kinnick until Dejean returned punt

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Defense cannot be expected to play nearly flawlessly for entire games. They did vs Iowa, but also their abysmal offense had something to do with that.

Gopher (passing) offense has to take massive steps forward the next three weeks.
 

MplsGopher said:
Defense cannot be expected to play nearly flawlessly for entire games. They did vs Iowa, but also their abysmal offense had something to do with that.

Gopher (passing) offense has to take massive steps forward the next three weeks.
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Passing offense is unlikely to take massive or lesser step forward unless the utilization of said offense changes.

Keep defense honest. They have to be prepared for pass on first down and second down, not just third and long.

Throw the medium and deep ball on early downs once in awhile. There are three good things that can happen. At minimum you show the defense they have to be ready for it even on "running" downs. Second, you can complete the pass for good yardage. Third a good route runner (Daniel Jackson for certain) is going to draw a PI or holding flag on about 20% of his deep routes. That is a far higher percentage than interceptions.

If we throw the ball about 30 times and keep them guessing as to when and where it's coming -- use Tyler on swing and wheel routes too -- the passing game will look good. The bonus is a defense forced to cover the field only improves the running game.

Extra bonus ... defense enjoys much of the game on the sidelines and when put into action brings it all just like against Iowa.
 



FredCoxRocks said:
I'm still perplexed by the terrible tackling on punt returns. Whatever that nonsense was that Minnesota did agains DeJean on Saturday was a frickin' embarrassment.
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Well Coleman Bryson makes a gigantic mistake getting pulled inside and letting DeJean get the sideline. That said.....we had four other guys standing there.....and I'm fairly sure that at least a couple of them were expecting the play to be called dead. It doesn't make sense that they'd all be that flat footed and out of position otherwise.
 

stocker08 said:
Well Coleman Bryson makes a gigantic mistake getting pulled inside and letting DeJean get the sideline. That said.....we had four other guys standing there.....and I'm fairly sure that at least a couple of them were expecting the play to be called dead. It doesn't make sense that they'd all be that flat footed and out of position otherwise.
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Not really. They all were running toward him & tried tackling him. They may have been expecting him to let the ball go but nobody was expecting the play to be called dead including PJ.
 

stocker08 said:
Well Coleman Bryson makes a gigantic mistake getting pulled inside and letting DeJean get the sideline. That said.....we had four other guys standing there.....and I'm fairly sure that at least a couple of them were expecting the play to be called dead. It doesn't make sense that they'd all be that flat footed and out of position otherwise.
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Maybe. I have seen Gopher players caught flat footed over the years for no reason. I guess that it would be necessary to be in our players heads to know what they were thinking. It is certain the #37 did not think that the play was dead, he over-committed and whiffed terribly on the tackle. We clearly dodged a bullet and were lucky to benefit from a rule, a fairly obscure rule at that. Go Gophers! Let's take advantage of our good fortune.
 

Xerxes_ said:
Not really. They all were running toward him & tried tackling him. They may have been expecting him to let the ball go but nobody was expecting the play to be called dead including PJ.
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There were a few guys that stopped or slowed down. That can make a difference in your punt coverage.
 



FredCoxRocks said:
I'm still perplexed by the terrible tackling on punt returns. Whatever that nonsense was that Minnesota did agains DeJean on Saturday was a frickin' embarrassment.
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I've been hearing that the NCAA now limits the amount of full contact practice which in turn limits the ability teach and learn good tackling. The only way to become a good tackler is to practice live, simple as that.

Maybe someone who has direct knowledge of current college football rules could speak to this.
 

Xerxes_ said:
Not really. They all were running toward him & tried tackling him. They may have been expecting him to let the ball go but nobody was expecting the play to be called dead including PJ.
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I call BS. Tariq Watson stops running altogether for a couple seconds. Several of the other guys slow down.....where they could have smoked him the second he touched the ball. Why did nobody light him up? Even the initial attempt was a little arm tackle that was easily broken. Sure looked to me that several guys were slowing up to make sure they didn't get called for a unnecessary roughness if the play had been blown dead. 15 yards from there would have put Iowa very close to FG range. So that arm waving definitely impacted the way the Gophers played it.
 

MplsGopher said:
Defense cannot be expected to play nearly flawlessly for entire games. They did vs Iowa, but also their abysmal offense had something to do with that.

Gopher (passing) offense has to take massive steps forward the next three weeks.
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Defense wasn't flawless against Iowa. 4 defensive penalties handed Iowa their only TD of the game. No penalties and that drive ends with 0 or maybe 3 points. Don't get me wrong, Defense was amazing for most of the game but they weren't perfect. Also came out of the gates slow on Iowa's first drive before adjusting and shutting them down (early struggles have been an issue with our D).

As for MSU/Iowa.....MSU had them beat until their punter boomed a punt to DeJean in one of the stupidest decisions I have ever seen a special teams group make. DeJean was able to catch the ball with nobody near him and we saw what he is capable of in tight spaces.....with open turf it is no contest. How MSU didn't kick that out of bounds or do what we did and put it right along the sidelines is beyond me.
 

stocker08 said:
I call BS. Tariq Watson stops running altogether for a couple seconds. Several of the other guys slow down.....where they could have smoked him the second he touched the ball. Why did nobody light him up? Even the initial attempt was a little arm tackle that was easily broken. Sure looked to me that several guys were slowing up to make sure they didn't get called for a unnecessary roughness if the play had been blown dead. 15 yards from there would have put Iowa very close to FG range. So that arm waving definitely impacted the way the Gophers played it.
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You can call it whatever you want but no players, coaches, fans, or even the refs excepted the play to be blown dead.
 



Xerxes_ said:
You can call it whatever you want but no players, coaches, fans, or even the refs excepted the play to be blown dead.
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I'll calling BS. #24, the lead gunner, stopped dead in his tracks the moment DeJean starting waving. Go back and watch the film. #27 almost fully stopped. #37 starting jogging. Every Gopher player let up until DeJean made his first move, then they realized no whistle had been blown. DeJean totally meant to sucker the Gopher players into letting up. The invalid fair catch rule is meant exactly for this moment.
 

Xerxes_ said:
You can call it whatever you want but no players, coaches, fans, or even the refs excepted the play to be blown dead.
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You are flat out wrong that the players or coaches didn't expect it to be waived dead. Cooper pulled this earlier in the game.
 

I didn't intend to start an argument and rehash the punt return in Iowa City. It just seems like tackling on kick and punt returns is a lost art form and guys are out of position often.
 

Xerxes_ said:
Not really. They all were running toward him & tried tackling him. They may have been expecting him to let the ball go but nobody was expecting the play to be called dead including PJ.
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Not necessarily true. Looks like as soon as Dejean started his full 5-cycle illegal FCC, they slowed way down. They expected him to let the ball roll dead like the other three he did during the game.

That doesn't mean that their kinetic energy stopped. Like a car when you take your foot off the gas but don't brake.

Their instinct is to tackle, but if you're trained to not tackle a guy that waves his arm, strange brain processes occur.

Edit: I forgot that it is difficult to have a logical answer for you that fits your paradigm. My fault entirely.
 
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Xerxes_ said:
You can call it whatever you want but no players, coaches, fans, or even the refs excepted the play to be blown dead.
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Ask #17 from iowa why when he turned, looked at cheater and immediately ran towards the iowa sideline, taking him out of the play, if he thought it was a live ball. He was covering the gunner on the Minnesota side of the field.

Ask #4 from iowa why he tuned and exited the field, on the Minnesota sideline, no less, when cheater fields the ball, if he thought it was a live ball.

#42 of iowa also gives up on the play, but re-engages after cheater starts returning the ball.

Take the L and GTFOOH
 

Look ..... none of this happens if ...

Brady Weeks just friggin tackles him, instead of being spun on like a top!!!!! Come on long snapper!!

:cool:
 


FredCoxRocks said:
I'm still perplexed by the terrible tackling on punt returns. Whatever that nonsense was that Minnesota did agains DeJean on Saturday was a frickin' embarrassment.
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Some of them were uncertain if it could be run back or not. That is the point of the invalid fair catch rule.

To your larger point, special teams coverage and tackling has not been good as a general rule.
 

denguegopher said:
Maybe. I have seen Gopher players caught flat footed over the years for no reason. I guess that it would be necessary to be in our players heads to know what they were thinking. It is certain the #37 did not think that the play was dead, he over-committed and whiffed terribly on the tackle. We clearly dodged a bullet and were lucky to benefit from a rule, a fairly obscure rule at that. Go Gophers! Let's take advantage of our good fortune.
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Where’s the dodged bullet? The second he touched the ball the play is over. No different than a false start. There is no play,
no bullet to dodge.

DeJean can run back punts at halftime or on Tuesday. They still don’t count on the Saturday scoreboard.
 

Xerxes_ said:
You can call it whatever you want but no players, coaches, fans, or even the refs excepted the play to be blown dead.
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Why not? The rule says it can’t be advanced. Nearest official should have blown it dead when he touched it and marked the spot to determine LOS for Iowa’s possession.
 


Ho Jon said:
It was tied 16 - 16 when the punt return happened. How did they have them beat?
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MSU was outplaying them....literally the only thing they could not afford to do in that situation was boom a punt down the middle of the field to DeJean and give him like 10 yards to get a full head of steam going. I suppose Iowa still could have won but it felt like MSU was on their way to pulling it out until they did that.
 

Dakota2 said:
Where’s the dodged bullet? The second he touched the ball the play is over. No different than a false start. There is no play,
no bullet to dodge.

DeJean can run back punts at halftime or on Tuesday. They still don’t count on the Saturday scoreboard.
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Could you be any more pedantic?
 


Dakota2 said:
Where’s the dodged bullet? The second he touched the ball the play is over. No different than a false start. There is no play,
no bullet to dodge.

DeJean can run back punts at halftime or on Tuesday. They still don’t count on the Saturday scoreboard.
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The dodged bullet comes from the fact that had they play occurred in the middle of the field there would have been no review to see if he stepped out of bounds. Therefore they would not have seen the hand wave that caused the play to ruled dead.

You mentioned a false start. What happened Saturday night was the equivalent of a RB running down the sideline for a 55 yard TD on an offensive play. But when the replay official made sure the RB stayed in bounds on the run they noticed an offensive lineman moving a pinky prior to the snap. So then the decided to call a penalty.

Also very interesting that they didn't penalize DeJean. It should have been a 5 yard mark off. And the conference also didn't fine Ferentz for his post game comments.
 

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