Sources: Ben Howland to be fired Sunday
- Thread starter scher215
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Or today ... That didn't take long.
@BryanDFischer: RT @JeffEisenberg: Along with @SpearsNBAYahoo, Y! Sports reports that UCLA coach Ben Howland has been notified that he has been fired
Is it still cool to make the Tubby to UCLA rumors? Or is it Shaka / Stevens now?
BarnBurner
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One can only hope.....
Some of you people are just *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ing relentless.
Buttcheeks McGaffigan
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Shaka should seriously consider taking the UCLA job. A school with a strong history, located in a great recruiting area and his style fits well with the Pac 12.
positively4thstreet
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Two openings in L.A.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, especially if UCLA can't get Shaka Smart.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, especially if UCLA can't get Shaka Smart.
Yup. I don't think Stevens is even in play there. Would have to feel comfortable he could change his style of play. They won't go for the way Butler plays in LA, home of lob city.
Agreed. He would destroy the PAC 12. He'd have to convince top flight top recruits to play defense like that though.
Slim Tubby
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Howland's demise is due to the "one-and-done" recruiting philosophy in a way. Do you think he would've been fired if Love, Westbrook, Holiday and soon to be Muhammad had stuck around for 2-4 years? Probably not IMO.
Yes he would have. He wasn't fired due to one and done rules.
Read the SI article on him and Reeves Nelson. He was a good coach by all accounts, but a terrible manager of egos and personalities, no discipline, and very socially awkward. His players don't like him and guys constantly underachieve for him.
As soon as Love, Holiday, and Westbrook left the wheels fell off the bus and would have regardless of when they did. And even those teams had tons of internal issues.
From the article, I'd suggest all give it a read:
...
"UCLA's fall has been something of a mystery. It has most often been blamed on players jumping early to the NBA (six Bruins have done so in the last four years, including Love and fellow first-round picks Russell Westbrook and Jrue Holiday), players transferring (five have departed) and even a supposed dearth of quality big men coming out of high schools on the West Coast. Inside the team, however, more fundamental problems have been at work, eroding the sense of unity, leading some players to leave the program and sending the blocks of Wooden's Pyramid tumbling down.
Over the last two months SI spoke with more than a dozen players and staff members from the past four Bruins teams. They portrayed the program as having drifted from the UCLA way as Howland allowed an influx of talented but immature recruits to undermine team discipline and morale. Fistfights broke out among teammates. Several players routinely used alcohol and drugs, sometimes before practice. One player intentionally injured teammates but received no punishment.
...
In an era in which coaches spend considerable time managing athletes with inflated egos, Howland assembled a mostly selfless group. The players were also mature beyond their years, a vital attribute given that Howland was neither a nurturer nor a player's coach. Other than during practices and games, he had little contact with his athletes, according to players. He showed up moments before a workout began and was gone before players paired off to shoot free throws at the end. Several team members say that his approach was how they imagined an NBA coach would run a team.
...
The task of indoctrinating a new player -- such as Westbrook, another unranked recruit, who enrolled in 2006 -- fell to the veterans. It was a team of prefects, the protectors of the UCLA dynamic, who looked out for each other, making sure that no one got into trouble, that no one threatened what they were trying to accomplish or what UCLA has always been about. They were a tight group. If they went out, to the movies or a party, they were 15 strong.
That kind of camaraderie is not unusual on good teams, but Howland's former players say he had very little to do with instilling it. He focused on basketball strategy, not team building. Each of the players who spoke to SI said they found Howland socially awkward and disapproved of the verbal abuse they say he directed at his staff, the student managers and the weakest players. One player said if he saw Howland waiting for the elevator he would take the stairs.
The players were puzzled by some of their coach's idiosyncrasies. Howland seemed obsessed with the temperature in the film room. If it was not exactly 76º a student manager was certain to feel Howland's wrath. The water bottles handed to him had to be just cold enough and not too large.
He occasionally kicked players out of pregame walk-throughs held in hotel ballrooms if the players weren't executing properly. Two players recall being tossed, on different occasions, for failing to get low enough on defense even though they were wearing jeans that constricted their movements.
In a game during the 2007-08 season, several players on the bench noted Howland's frustration with the shot selection of Westbrook, whose freelancing had resulted in several baskets. But rather than substituting for him, Howland informed one of the officials that Westbrook was wearing socks bearing an NBA logo, which violated NCAA uniform guidelines. Howland told the official he had an obligation to remove Westbrook from the game because of his socks. The official claimed to be unaware of the rule and let play continue.
And that is all just the tip of the ice berg.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/magazine/02/28/ucla/index.html#ixzz2OQ6vmbX0
...
"UCLA's fall has been something of a mystery. It has most often been blamed on players jumping early to the NBA (six Bruins have done so in the last four years, including Love and fellow first-round picks Russell Westbrook and Jrue Holiday), players transferring (five have departed) and even a supposed dearth of quality big men coming out of high schools on the West Coast. Inside the team, however, more fundamental problems have been at work, eroding the sense of unity, leading some players to leave the program and sending the blocks of Wooden's Pyramid tumbling down.
Over the last two months SI spoke with more than a dozen players and staff members from the past four Bruins teams. They portrayed the program as having drifted from the UCLA way as Howland allowed an influx of talented but immature recruits to undermine team discipline and morale. Fistfights broke out among teammates. Several players routinely used alcohol and drugs, sometimes before practice. One player intentionally injured teammates but received no punishment.
...
In an era in which coaches spend considerable time managing athletes with inflated egos, Howland assembled a mostly selfless group. The players were also mature beyond their years, a vital attribute given that Howland was neither a nurturer nor a player's coach. Other than during practices and games, he had little contact with his athletes, according to players. He showed up moments before a workout began and was gone before players paired off to shoot free throws at the end. Several team members say that his approach was how they imagined an NBA coach would run a team.
...
The task of indoctrinating a new player -- such as Westbrook, another unranked recruit, who enrolled in 2006 -- fell to the veterans. It was a team of prefects, the protectors of the UCLA dynamic, who looked out for each other, making sure that no one got into trouble, that no one threatened what they were trying to accomplish or what UCLA has always been about. They were a tight group. If they went out, to the movies or a party, they were 15 strong.
That kind of camaraderie is not unusual on good teams, but Howland's former players say he had very little to do with instilling it. He focused on basketball strategy, not team building. Each of the players who spoke to SI said they found Howland socially awkward and disapproved of the verbal abuse they say he directed at his staff, the student managers and the weakest players. One player said if he saw Howland waiting for the elevator he would take the stairs.
The players were puzzled by some of their coach's idiosyncrasies. Howland seemed obsessed with the temperature in the film room. If it was not exactly 76º a student manager was certain to feel Howland's wrath. The water bottles handed to him had to be just cold enough and not too large.
He occasionally kicked players out of pregame walk-throughs held in hotel ballrooms if the players weren't executing properly. Two players recall being tossed, on different occasions, for failing to get low enough on defense even though they were wearing jeans that constricted their movements.
In a game during the 2007-08 season, several players on the bench noted Howland's frustration with the shot selection of Westbrook, whose freelancing had resulted in several baskets. But rather than substituting for him, Howland informed one of the officials that Westbrook was wearing socks bearing an NBA logo, which violated NCAA uniform guidelines. Howland told the official he had an obligation to remove Westbrook from the game because of his socks. The official claimed to be unaware of the rule and let play continue.
And that is all just the tip of the ice berg.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/magazine/02/28/ucla/index.html#ixzz2OQ6vmbX0
Scoreboard
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Without discipline you have nothing. Especially with kids growing up today. Children in recent years have often been allowed to do as they will as long as they are not a burden to their parents or in half the cases, parent. They make many of their own choices at a young age and are accustom to it. Without a relationship in which they know they are cared for and there are clear expectations of how they are to perform, they will do as they please. Kids want and need structure and discipline. Kids know they are cared for and someone is watching out for them. Stepping off soap box now.
Slim Tubby
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Wow....didn't know any of that. I retract my statement. It seems odd that he was able to get these recruits to begin with...must have been one hell of a snow job during the recruiting process or just simply the lure of UCLA.
I don't think Howland is 100% to blame though, the fact that any human being regardless of age can act like some of those players did and have such screwed up priorities is awful. Howland didn't help the team by keeping them around, but man. Such immaturity. Makes me happy though to hear about Love, Holiday, Westbrook, Lee, etc. being good citizens despite all of the drama.
Love posted the following on Twitter after the article came out:
@kevinlove: I stay in full support of Coach Howland and the UCLA Basketball program. I enjoyed my time immensely while playing under coach. #UCLA
@kevinlove: It's unfortunate that a few bad eggs can ruin an entire batch. Coach should not be blamed for the wrongdoing of those players.
@kevinlove: I stay in full support of Coach Howland and the UCLA Basketball program. I enjoyed my time immensely while playing under coach. #UCLA
@kevinlove: It's unfortunate that a few bad eggs can ruin an entire batch. Coach should not be blamed for the wrongdoing of those players.
Not sure who UCLA would actually get. Whoever it would be would be dealing with a very unhappy fan and alumni base, which creates added pressure. Brad Stevens seems like a definite reach. Waiting for somebody to inevitably bring up Mark Few again with him being a west coast guy and all. Shaka Smart has a pretty good gig at VCU and it would take a lot for him to move imo. But if there is one school that could do it, it's probably UCLA.
Buttcheeks McGaffigan
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One of my biggest complaints when did have Love and Westbrook was a mediocre offense. Only 85th in the country and it that hurt them in the tournament.
Right, except didn't Shaka turn down big-time money from N.C. State a couple of years back? Of course, UCLA is a name program, so maybe that would factor in a little more this time around.
Gopher Warrior
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Mediocre offense? 85th?! They easily had a top 10 offense in the nation. (Although it was Collison, not Westbrook, who was their second biggest contributor on offense behind Love.)
The UCLA job is TOUGH. Unless they paid well I'd find it to be a... not so great... job. But, Tubby's compensation package with Minnesota is more valuable than Howland's with UCLA's is/was... which is a bit crazy, but that's the truth.
goldengophers
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Jeez this should put it in perspective for the mediocrites.
Minnesota has to pay more for coaches than UCLA does. That shouldn't be surprising.
Johnnyboy18
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Johnnyboy18
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That's not a word.
goldengophers
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Oh that makes sense, Tubby must make more than Coach K, Williams, and Self.
goldengophers
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Not a lot going on between the ears there Johnnyboy.
Johnnyboy18
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You must really think that's a word don't you?
Depends. Very unhappy group of folks out there right now. The microscope would be glaring and unrelenting, kind of like what Tubby was dealing with at Kentucky before he came here.
An interesting note for those that like to claim Minnesota has "bad" fans: UCLA's attracted more than 10,000 fans to the newly remodeled Pauley Pavilion just FIVE times this year. FIVE crowds of over 10K for a team that WON that PAC 12!
I'm guessing the UCLA football program is not a cash cow relative to its peers and they've spent major $$ on both Neuheisel and Mora Jr.