Source tells Chad Hartman that Flip Saunders has now emerged as the leading candidate

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station19 said:
Reusse saying one of the reasons Teague and Ellis wanted Tubby gone was because they felt 'he didn't work at it'.
y.
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Is the sky blue? Flip already has put forth more effort.
 

G0 4 said:
John Galt said:
ISU would have missed out on Hoiberg with that criteria.
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Yep. Flip and a whole host of candidates could turn out to be great, solid or bad. I think for anyone to understand expectations around the hire, we first have to agree why Tubby was fired and what we're hoping to accomplish:

a. We just needed to move on from Tubby. Another solid coach who can win 20 games a year and go .500 in the Big Ten is what we need.
b. We were already a solid team. We fired a HOF coach, so the the replacement has to be someone who can take us from good to very good/great. The candidate needs to have already shown they can do this on the college level.

If your expectation is (a), Flip, Grant, Enfield, Ben Howland, and 20 others guys would be fine. If the expectation is (b), it needs to be someone else.
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I don't know if Flip would be a great hire or not, but there are reasons to be optimistic (at least to me):

> First and foremost, he is likely to be HUGELY popular with the portion of the fan base that writes the checks. (sorry 20-30-somethings, this is mostly not you)

> Recruiting? As Flip said in a recent interview, recruiting is selling. It's not a science and it's not exclusive to those who have extensive experience doing it. I'm not worried about his recruiting

> Lastly, and most importantly, if there are gaps in Flip's game, he's not doing this alone. He'll be working with a staff that he is likely comfortable with, and that complements or makes up for the shortcomings he may have. He'll have help, and he'll have very capable help.

Similarly to Kill: hiring Kill alone would have probably be a train wreck and I would have hated it. He brought his entire staff with him, and that's why I thought (and still think) he would be successful in MN. Flip is no idiot. He'll hire a supporting staff that will help him to be successful.
 

If Flip is hired it is because of one thing and one thing only: they couldn't get anybody else. If Flip's career wasn't at the U but was at Illinois or Cal or NC State, would we even be considering him? Of course not. It'll be a sad, pathetic, couldn't-get-anybody-else pick. It'll also show that Villa 7 is the ultimate farce. Flip hired = Teague fired.
 

True

Bob_Loblaw said:
That must be it. . . (when the numbers to fit your argument, the numbers LIE)

No, you're just spouting out nonsense. I'm not even ripping on Flip. I'm ripping on your take about Steph Marbury. There isn't a single person who watched the Wolves under Flip who wouldn't concede that his offense was based on the jump shot. That's not a rip on him, it's a fact.
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Flip is not perfect. And it is Easter week...neither is Shaka, Stevens, Buzz etc
I would like to see more evidence of an emphasis to attack the basket in the half court
from Flip's teams. Maybe he'll adapt? I do believe he'll do well if given the opportunity but that is a valid analysis of how his teams did play.
 


60's Guy said:
Flip is not perfect. And it is Easter week...neither is Shaka, Stevens, Buzz etc
I would like to see more evidence of an emphasis to attack the basket in the half court
from Flip's teams. Maybe he'll adapt? I do believe he'll do well if given the opportunity but that is a valid analysis of how his teams did play.
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I made a thread about Flip's offenses in the NBA. Statistically, they didn't attack the basket a whole lot. It's not really a rip on him, he had effective offensive teams, they were just built on the midrange jumpshot.

He could very well adapt, I'm just pointing out what he did in the NBA. He's a smart guy, I expect him to adapt.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
All you're doing is stating an opinion as if it were fact.

The fact that a small minority of people on here aren't into the hiring shouldn't be surprising. Like Flip or not, he has question marks. He hasn't coached college ball in a really long time. I'm not saying it's a bad hiring, I don't really like it, but I can understand why some people do. It shouldn't take much stretching of your imagination to understand why people wouldn't be ecstatic about Flip either. I mean, people wouldn't be pumped here if Mike Fratello got hired. That doesn't make my opinion right and your opinion wrong, but both opinions should at least be able to be comprehended.
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Wasn't stating it as fact; that is my opinion. I truly believe that he is passionate about the U, which is a huge upgrade from someone who was collecting an annuity
 

TopCat said:
If Flip is hired it is because of one thing and one thing only: they couldn't get anybody else. If Flip's career wasn't at the U but was at Illinois or Cal or NC State, would we even be considering him? Of course not. It'll be a sad, pathetic, couldn't-get-anybody-else pick. It'll also show that Villa 7 is the ultimate farce. Flip hired = Teague fired.
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You are what people call a straight up HATER.

Let me fill you in on something genius, if Saunders was an Illini alum, the Illini would pursue him, if he was a Cal alum, Cal would pursue him, if he was a NCSU alum, NCSU would pursue him. Its that simple.

Why are we pursueing him? Because we actually think we have a shot with him. Name me 1 other university that would have a shot with Flip? Just 1. It's not like we are his only option, the T-Pups seem to want him as to be their GM.

So why don't you GO AWAY troll and stop hating?!


And the other IDIOTIC thing you said, was that if Flip is hired, Teague will get fired?! Are you mentally retarded?! I'm serious, what kind of mental process comes to this kind of ridiculous conclusion?! The impression I get, is that if Teague actually goes with Flip and not one of his Villa 7 guys, it will impress the Gopher faithful EVEN MORE!!! It will show that he's truly out to find the "best fit" for the U, not necessarily who is the best fit for him.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I made a thread about Flip's offenses in the NBA. Statistically, they didn't attack the basket a whole lot. It's not really a rip on him, he had effective offensive teams, they were just built on the midrange jumpshot.

He could very well adapt, I'm just pointing out what he did in the NBA. He's a smart guy, I expect him to adapt.
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Bob, I am going to say, I am not the kind of person to come to a conclusion and then change my mind easily. But I was convinced that you were a stone cold Flip hater, but you are surprising me. You are being very honest and while sticking to your original statements, you are also making the kinds of admissions that "haters" don't make.

So if I misjudged you, I am sorry, and I apologize. Truly. And I hope you can forgive me as well.
 



TopCat said:
If Flip is hired it is because of one thing and one thing only: they couldn't get anybody else. If Flip's career wasn't at the U but was at Illinois or Cal or NC State, would we even be considering him? Of course not. It'll be a sad, pathetic, couldn't-get-anybody-else pick. It'll also show that Villa 7 is the ultimate farce. Flip hired = Teague fired.
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Are we certain this isn't the common man? Flip hired= Teague fired. Sounds like a common chant to me.
 

There are a lot of legitimate questions with Flip that I think many people on this thread are just dismissing out of hand.

Will Flip's coaching skills translate to the college game? Flip is used to coaching elite talent that works at their craft as their primary job. In college the talent will be a lot less and the amount of time the kids will have to learn will be less as well. Can Flip adapt his offensive and defensive game plans to the college level and get that information across in the small amount of practice time?

Flip hasn't recruited anyone in close to 30 years. Just because he has shown up a few games here and there doesn't make him a great recruiter. I think a lot of people are really over estimating the weight his name will carry. These kids would have been under 10 years old when he was FIRED from the Wolves. They weren't even born when he played here. People seem to think that his NBA credentials will just make a kids eyes pop but I think it's more impressive when Coach K walks in and says something to the effect of "Yeah, Flip Saunders might have coached in the NBA but do you know how many players he's helped get there? Zero. Let me tell you about the 23 kids I have had drafted (or whatever the number is, it's high for sure). Oh yeah, I've also been to the Final Four six times and won the championship twice. Did I mention I coached Team USA to the Gold Medal in the Olympics?"

When you're done for the day in the NBA you let the team go on their way knowing they are adults and can make their own decisions or suffer the consequences as adults. That's not how things are in College though. Does Flip have the desire to not only coach the team but also do all the other things that go with a college program? Is he ready to be their father, disciplinarian, cheerleader, task master, academic adviser (I understand players will have academic help but Flip would need to be a part of this equation as well) and all the other things college coaches must take on? Is he ready to mold these kids not just on the court but off the court as well?


These are just some of the legitimate questions that surround Flip. For Flip there are some potential questions touching almost every aspect of a college coaching job. Many people on this forum just seem to sweep these under the rug as if they don't exist. I don't know if this is because compared to other T-Wolves coaches he looks like John Wooden or if it is because he was a former Gopher player. Regardless the questions are there. As Bob has asked/stated several times, "Would you be excited with , Mike Fratello?" I think the answer to that is a pretty clear no.
 

GopherGack said:
There are a lot of legitimate questions with Flip that I think many people on this thread are just dismissing out of hand.

Will Flip's coaching skills translate to the college game? Flip is used to coaching elite talent that works at their craft as their primary job. In college the talent will be a lot less and the amount of time the kids will have to learn will be less as well. Can Flip adapt his offensive and defensive game plans to the college level and get that information across in the small amount of practice time?

Flip hasn't recruited anyone in close to 30 years. Just because he has shown up a few games here and there doesn't make him a great recruiter. I think a lot of people are really over estimating the weight his name will carry. These kids would have been under 10 years old when he was FIRED from the Wolves. They weren't even born when he played here. People seem to think that his NBA credentials will just make a kids eyes pop but I think it's more impressive when Coach K walks in and says something to the effect of "Yeah, Flip Saunders might have coached in the NBA but do you know how many players he's helped get there? Zero. Let me tell you about the 23 kids I have had drafted (or whatever the number is, it's high for sure). Oh yeah, I've also been to the Final Four six times and won the championship twice. Did I mention I coached Team USA to the Gold Medal in the Olympics?"

When you're done for the day in the NBA you let the team go on their way knowing they are adults and can make their own decisions or suffer the consequences as adults. That's not how things are in College though. Does Flip have the desire to not only coach the team but also do all the other things that go with a college program? Is he ready to be their father, disciplinarian, cheerleader, task master, academic adviser (I understand players will have academic help but Flip would need to be a part of this equation as well) and all the other things college coaches must take on? Is he ready to mold these kids not just on the court but off the court as well?


These are just some of the legitimate questions that surround Flip. For Flip there are some potential questions touching almost every aspect of a college coaching job. Many people on this forum just seem to sweep these under the rug as if they don't exist. I don't know if this is because compared to other T-Wolves coaches he looks like John Wooden or if it is because he was a former Gopher player. Regardless the questions are there. As Bob has asked/stated several times, "Would you be excited with , Mike Fratello?" I think the answer to that is a pretty clear no.
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You make some really good points GopherGack. You're right on the money about it being more than just coaching. The only part of your post I might question is about Coach K. Not that you're incorrect about his accomplishments, but who could the U hire that would surpass what the Duke coach has done? He can run that shtick against anyone that is seriously considering coming to coach the University of Minnesota. (Shoot, he can run it on most of the coaches in the nation. Also, we just had a coach that could walk into a house and say he won the national championship and has sent kids to the NBA.) You do state things we, or more specifically I, do tend to forget or as you put "sweep under the rug".
 

GopherGack said:
There are a lot of legitimate questions with Flip that I think many people on this thread are just dismissing out of hand.

Will Flip's coaching skills translate to the college game? Flip is used to coaching elite talent that works at their craft as their primary job. In college the talent will be a lot less and the amount of time the kids will have to learn will be less as well. Can Flip adapt his offensive and defensive game plans to the college level and get that information across in the small amount of practice time?

Flip hasn't recruited anyone in close to 30 years. Just because he has shown up a few games here and there doesn't make him a great recruiter. I think a lot of people are really over estimating the weight his name will carry. These kids would have been under 10 years old when he was FIRED from the Wolves. They weren't even born when he played here. People seem to think that his NBA credentials will just make a kids eyes pop but I think it's more impressive when Coach K walks in and says something to the effect of "Yeah, Flip Saunders might have coached in the NBA but do you know how many players he's helped get there? Zero. Let me tell you about the 23 kids I have had drafted (or whatever the number is, it's high for sure). Oh yeah, I've also been to the Final Four six times and won the championship twice. Did I mention I coached Team USA to the Gold Medal in the Olympics?"

When you're done for the day in the NBA you let the team go on their way knowing they are adults and can make their own decisions or suffer the consequences as adults. That's not how things are in College though. Does Flip have the desire to not only coach the team but also do all the other things that go with a college program? Is he ready to be their father, disciplinarian, cheerleader, task master, academic adviser (I understand players will have academic help but Flip would need to be a part of this equation as well) and all the other things college coaches must take on? Is he ready to mold these kids not just on the court but off the court as well?


These are just some of the legitimate questions that surround Flip. For Flip there are some potential questions touching almost every aspect of a college coaching job. Many people on this forum just seem to sweep these under the rug as if they don't exist. I don't know if this is because compared to other T-Wolves coaches he looks like John Wooden or if it is because he was a former Gopher player. Regardless the questions are there. As Bob has asked/stated several times, "Would you be excited with , Mike Fratello?" I think the answer to that is a pretty clear no.
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You seem to dismiss the fact that Flip sent 20+ players to the NBA when he was a CBA coach. In fact I believe it was a record number. Also, wouldn't actual coaching at the highest level be the ultimate selling point? Flip knows what it takes to get the NBA. I would say you make good points, but I completely disagree with your logic.
 



And whoever said we need to compete with Duke? Heck I'd be happy just competing with Wisconsin for recruits.
 

Flip makes perfect sense, don't understand the skepticism. Basketball is basketball. Plus if you've ever listened to flip you'll know he'll have no difficulty recruiting.
 

burton34 said:
You seem to dismiss the fact that Flip sent 20+ players to the NBA when he was a CBA coach. In fact I believe it was a record number. Also, wouldn't actual coaching at the highest level be the ultimate selling point? Flip knows what it takes to get the NBA. I would say you make good points, but I completely disagree with your logic.
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Outside of kids from Minnesota, coaching at the highest level is the ONLY selling point right now. That said, its a big one. If we hire Flip, he has to use his NBA pedigree early and often to get in the door and land recruits from around the country. Then, we need to win..if we win, that will also sell recruits. Its not unlike when Tubby came here. His national title and reputation got him in the door of recruits and he landed quite a few I think. Soon, his style, etc and lack of winning consistently made it harder to land the top recruits. I think Flip has the same challenges. If he wins consistently, then its starts to build itself.

Also, the Big Three for 2014 is great and all, but Minnesota, while much deeper in D1 talent than 10 years ago, does not produce enough blue chip guys to make a living on in state recruiting. Flip will need to bring in lots of national guys from Chicago, Atlanta, Florida, etc. His NBA pedigree will get him in the door. Heck, any kid who watches ESPN knows Flip as he is on ESPN from time to time. Its what Flip does the first couple years which matters. Trurthfully, this is why the 2014 class is huge. Sadly, Flip would not have a head start.. but hopefully his name can help him land a couple of those guys. That is what is needed to get a quick start, win some games and build momentum. I think it would actually hurt Flip more than another "Villa 7" type coach if he loses all the Big Three as Flip's name means a lot more locally than a guy who has already been recruiting for a long time..meaning they can pluck some guys from other parts of country to ease blow of losing big three.

Regardless, I think it would be fun to have Flip as our coach. He is not my #1 choice (Buzz or Marshall) but he is a top 3 guy for me. Watching his staff develop would be even more fun... a local who's who?
 

Torres9 said:
Flip makes perfect sense, don't understand the skepticism. Basketball is basketball. Plus if you've ever listened to flip you'll know he'll have no difficulty recruiting.
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He was recruiting before Tubby was fired.
 

he enjoys watching high level highschool games he has been at several local games over last 2 years like thousands of other fans...so no he has not been recruiting
 

GopherGack said:
There are a lot of legitimate questions with Flip that I think many people on this thread are just dismissing out of hand.
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So what Coach is out there, looking to move, who doesn't have "legitimate questions" attached to him?
 

goldengophers said:
He was recruiting before Tubby was fired.
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I like Flip, but watching a high profile hoops game...while it could be considered recruiting by having your face there.. is the tip of the ice berg. Recruiting is flying to some backwoods town on a weds night in the middle of the country to watch a game and then again that following weekend. Calling and texting and flying and flying and flying...and knowing which players to even watch, which means knowing who to trust about some recruit in Athens, GA, etc. Hopefully, Flip can do that..

I think he has it in him for a few years...
 



GopherGack said:
There are a lot of legitimate questions with Flip that I think many people on this thread are just dismissing out of hand.

Will Flip's coaching skills translate to the college game? Flip is used to coaching elite talent that works at their craft as their primary job. In college the talent will be a lot less and the amount of time the kids will have to learn will be less as well. Can Flip adapt his offensive and defensive game plans to the college level and get that information across in the small amount of practice time?

Flip hasn't recruited anyone in close to 30 years. Just because he has shown up a few games here and there doesn't make him a great recruiter. I think a lot of people are really over estimating the weight his name will carry. These kids would have been under 10 years old when he was FIRED from the Wolves. They weren't even born when he played here. People seem to think that his NBA credentials will just make a kids eyes pop but I think it's more impressive when Coach K walks in and says something to the effect of "Yeah, Flip Saunders might have coached in the NBA but do you know how many players he's helped get there? Zero. Let me tell you about the 23 kids I have had drafted (or whatever the number is, it's high for sure). Oh yeah, I've also been to the Final Four six times and won the championship twice. Did I mention I coached Team USA to the Gold Medal in the Olympics?"

When you're done for the day in the NBA you let the team go on their way knowing they are adults and can make their own decisions or suffer the consequences as adults. That's not how things are in College though. Does Flip have the desire to not only coach the team but also do all the other things that go with a college program? Is he ready to be their father, disciplinarian, cheerleader, task master, academic adviser (I understand players will have academic help but Flip would need to be a part of this equation as well) and all the other things college coaches must take on? Is he ready to mold these kids not just on the court but off the court as well?


These are just some of the legitimate questions that surround Flip. For Flip there are some potential questions touching almost every aspect of a college coaching job. Many people on this forum just seem to sweep these under the rug as if they don't exist. I don't know if this is because compared to other T-Wolves coaches he looks like John Wooden or if it is because he was a former Gopher player. Regardless the questions are there. As Bob has asked/stated several times, "Would you be excited with , Mike Fratello?" I think the answer to that is a pretty clear no.
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Many good points in this post about the questions / concerns if Flip was hired. If he hangs around Izzo and the Michigan St program as much as it appears he does by what he says when on KFAN I would assume that the talk isn't only about the Xs and Os but also about the day to day running of a college basketball program.

Again I am making an assumption but I would have to believe that Flip would know what he is getting into if he takes the job and what comes with it. Whether he can do all that is up for debate.
 

scools12 said:
Many good points in this post about the questions / concerns if Flip was hired. If he hangs around Izzo and the Michigan St program as much as it appears he does by what he says when on KFAN I would assume that the talk isn't only about the Xs and Os but also about the day to day running of a college basketball program.

Again I am making an assumption but I would have to believe that Flip would know what he is getting into if he takes the job and what comes with it. Whether he can do all that is up for debate.
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The bold would be my biggest concern. I'm not too worried about the X's and O's
 

Rouser said:
I like Flip, but watching a high profile hoops game...while it could be considered recruiting by having your face there.. is the tip of the ice berg. Recruiting is flying to some backwoods town on a weds night in the middle of the country to watch a game and then again that following weekend. Calling and texting and flying and flying and flying...and knowing which players to even watch, which means knowing who to trust about some recruit in Athens, GA, etc. Hopefully, Flip can do that..

I think he has it in him for a few years...
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I would have far more concerns about this if he were a football coach. Basketball recruiting is much much different then football. You are recruiting far fewer players every year and while you have to do your due diligence you don't have to look under nearly as many rocks as you do to find football talent. You just need to establish some strong connections at key points around the country. With the AAU system it is much easier to identify the top talent year in and year out.

Also someone made a comment about Flip not being able to out recruit Coach K.....yeah that goes for Flip and 99.9% of the coaches out there right now. Flip would be a great ambassador for the University, is a proven coach, and I think would get people pretty fired up. Can he land any of the Big 3, tough to say but if he turns out to be the guy I would be fully on board with that hire.
 

Yeah the idiot thinks he has been recruiting for a job that did not exist ,that may not open, that may not be his if it opened....all in violation of NCAA rules during a time when Tubby Smith was head coach
 

THE SCOUT! said:
Yeah the idiot thinks he has been recruiting for a job that did not exist ,that may not open, that may not be his if it opened....all in violation of NCAA rules during a time when Tubby Smith was head coach
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To clarify he was scouting in preparation for a job he knew was almost certainly going to be open.
 

I say make it happen with Flip Monday morning and let's get the fence mending, recruiting, building (i.e. facility) and rebuilding started.

Marshall essentially says in nationally published article in Star Trib he likes Wichita State and isn't moving (not that I'd prefer him over Flip). Note that Marshall is 50 years old so the age difference with Flip is not significant. We'd be taking a major risk in going with mid major coach or major assistant fishing expedition at this point.

Let's move forward with Flip and deactivate indecision.
 

If Flip is the coach on Monday, schedule immediate meetings with the families of the big 3 and show them how this program can grow now andthat they are a major focus thereof. Program needs to show that it's no longer indifferent, mutinized or in stasis.
 

goldengophers said:
To clarify he was scouting in preparation for a job he knew was almost certainly going to be open.
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Yeah, SCOUT is being the idiot. And who is to say that Flip may not have been simply doing some voluntary scouting for the U. Why not? His mind set could be that the UMn job might come available soon, and it might have also been in his mind that scouting these top recruits NOW, could help him if he got a GM job as well, as he would be able to then compare other top recruits he goes to watch with the guys from Minnesota that he's already seen. And, the bonus part of the whole thing is he probably thought it would just plain ole be fun. He probably, like many have said, simply loves bb and went as much for the entertainment value as anything else.
 

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