Souhan: The problems with the men’s program began with disgraced athletic director Norwood Teague.

[BleedGopher]

Per Jim:

The problems with the men’s program began with disgraced athletic director Norwood Teague. Teague thought so highly of his basketball connections that he fired future Hall of Famer Tubby Smith shortly after Smith had won an NCAA tournament game.

Can you imagine the Gophers basketball program firing a future Hall of Fame coach after he won an NCAA tourney game?

Later in column:

For all of the problems with these programs, today there is hope, because the Gophers men are learning to lean on their star, and the Gophers women are learning to play without theirs.

Souhan: There’s hope at Williams Arena as the Gophers basketball teams are playing better, led by a nationally ranked women’s team

The Gopher women could build a national reputation, while the men could save their coach’s job.

www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!

 

[Spaulding!No!]

I read here things slipped in 1986.

 

[howeda7]

Per Jim:

The problems with the men’s program began with disgraced athletic director Norwood Teague. Teague thought so highly of his basketball connections that he fired future Hall of Famer Tubby Smith shortly after Smith had won an NCAA tournament game.

Can you imagine the Gophers basketball program firing a future Hall of Fame coach after he won an NCAA tourney game?

Later in column:

For all of the problems with these programs, today there is hope, because the Gophers men are learning to lean on their star, and the Gophers women are learning to play without theirs.

Souhan: There’s hope at Williams Arena as the Gophers basketball teams are playing better, led by a nationally ranked women’s team

The Gopher women could build a national reputation, while the men could save their coach’s job.

www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!

Pitino was 54-96 in the B1G (36%). According to Jim he did "remarkably well". That's why Jim is the local sports media's #1 expert in college basketball. And why they collectively think we should run it back with the current 17-50 (25%) coach. He's a nice guy. We can't do any better anyway.

Man our standards are low. For sports media and basketball coaches.

 

[dbmn]

I read here things slipped in 1986.

When they made Jim Dutcher resign as head BB coach after 3 players were accused of sexual assault in Madison, WI, during a trip to play the Badgers. All 3 players were acquitted of all charges. Dutcher was a good coach and person. Then came Clem Haskins, also forced to resign after the school-work scandal. One of the next 4 coaches, Tubby Smith was successful, and they fired him too. Have had season tickets since '86 and this year was on the fence about renewing but did. Expectations are so low that even 2 wins in a row gives me hope, however delusional that hope may be.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Norwood was a disaster but he was hired 13 years before the Gangelhoff scandal and resigned 6 seasons before we hired Pitino Ben Johnson.

He is a footnote in the history of ineptitude, he certainly isn't the cause of it.

 

[howeda7]

Norwood was a disaster but he was hired 13 years before the Gangelhoff scandal and resigned 6 seasons before we hired Pitino.

He is a footnote in the history of ineptitude, he certainly isn't the cause of it.

What? Norwood hired Pitino.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

What? Norwood hired Pitino.

Oops. Meant 6 years before hired Ben Johnson.

 

[GopherOhana]

nothing excuses the hiring of coach johnson

 

[tjgopher]

Norwood was a disaster but he was hired 13 years before the Gangelhoff scandal and resigned 6 seasons before we hired Pitino Ben Johnson.

He is a footnote in the history of ineptitude, he certainly isn't the cause of it.

Also, think you mean 13 years after the Gangelhoff scandal.

 

[SelectionSunday]

Exactly what I would expect from Souhan. ... deflect any blame from Ben that he can possibly muster up. That's weak. ... how long has Mega Tongue been gone from the U now?

But he's right about Teague, he's a human turd (just like Souhan).

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Norwood was a disaster but he was hired 13 years before the Gangelhoff scandal and resigned 6 seasons before we hired Pitino Ben Johnson.

He is a footnote in the history of ineptitude, he certainly isn't the cause of it.

Teague was AD at MN from 2012 to 2015.

FWIW, it was during the Teague regime when MN adopted the "preferred seating" plan that required season-ticket holders to make required donations in order to keep their traditional seats.

men's basketball attendance:
2013-14: 236,345
2014-15: 219,389
2015-16: 185,256
2016-17: 206,171
2017-18: 201,454
2018-19: 183,153
2019-20: 163,712
------
2021-22: 154,006
2022-23: 160,670
2023-24: 162,795

in 2014-15, avg attendance was 12,188 for all games and 13,013 for conference games. in 15-16, that dropped to 11,479 for all games and 11,163 for conference.

 

[GopherJake]

Teague was AD at MN from 2012 to 2015.

FWIW, it was during the Teague regime when MN adopted the "preferred seating" plan that required season-ticket holders to make required donations in order to keep their traditional seats.

men's basketball attendance:
2013-14: 236,345
2014-15: 219,389
2015-16: 185,256
2016-17: 206,171
2017-18: 201,454
2018-19: 183,153
2019-20: 163,712
------
2021-22: 154,006
2022-23: 160,670
2023-24: 162,795

in 2014-15, avg attendance was 12,188 for all games and 13,013 for conference games. in 15-16, that dropped to 11,479 for all games and 11,163 for conference.

Well, I wanted to look at attendance during the heyday of the Clem seasons, but apparently those seasons never happened. This is a trite refrain, but I want my God-damned money back. You can't even keep the attendance figures on the web site? Are you kidding me? WTAF?!?!?

Williams Arena Attendance Figures - University of Minnesota Athletics

Year G Attend. Avg. BT G BT Attend. BT Avg. High 1946-47 11 132,949 12,087 7 107,399 15,343 16,519 1947-48 11 136,692 12,427 7 104,764 14,967 16,690 1948-49 ...

gophersports.com

92-93 avg: 14,876
No games apparently played for the next 6 years
99-00: 13,767

23-24: 8,140

 

[Roland Brooks]

A couple of Norwood’s minions in the athletic department we’re also a bit too friendly…

 

[Strongazzoffer]

Problems started long before Norwood. Ultimately this comes down to your ability to get players. Clem could get players, we've had that issue on a consistent basis for about 25 years now. Souhan was one of the tools that called Coyle out on diversity in the department he knows hed have to admit he was wrong if he became critical of Ben, a lot of guys in the basketball area going to have egg on their face because they complained about Pitino not recruiting the state hard enough, Coyle gave them their pound of flesh and the results are all time bad for this program

 

[BarnBurner]

Another short sighted view.

 

[STPGopher]

When they made Jim Dutcher resign as head BB coach after 3 players were accused of sexual assault in Madison, WI, during a trip to play the Badgers. All 3 players were acquitted of all charges. Dutcher was a good coach and person. Then came Clem Haskins, also forced to resign after the school-work scandal. One of the next 4 coaches, Tubby Smith was successful, and they fired him too. Have had season tickets since '86 and this year was on the fence about renewing but did. Expectations are so low that even 2 wins in a row gives me hope, however delusional that hope may be.

You raise some interesting points. Perhaps it isn't as easy for us to bring in a top notch experienced head coach. Coyle may need to press for a big check to lure the guy he wants.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

a lot of guys in the basketball area going to have egg on their face because they complained about Pitino not recruiting the state hard enough, Coyle gave them their pound of flesh and the results are all time bad for this program

No they won't. Are you forgetting that Pitino was here for eight seasons and four of them resulted in overall losing seasons including one that actually was slightly worse than Ben's worst season? Pitino got a fair shake here. He was here two seasons longer than Tubby and his last four years actually were worse than his first four.

The fact that Ben has performed worse than Pitino to this point in their tenures doesn't make Pitino's record better than it was. At least if Ben is fired after this season, he didn't make us suffer as long as Pitino did.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I'm still fine with Pitino getting let go but at the same time, I don't think the program was that far from having good success several times under him. If Mason wasn't hurt in 16-17 tournament. If Carr gets immediate eligibility like he should have in 18-19.

I know it's stupid to play the "what if" game but I don't think the problems are that hard to overcome. A good coach that can get the best out of the talent he has will attract better talent, even with the NIL disadvantages.

 

[howeda7]

I'm still fine with Pitino getting let go but at the same time, I don't think the program was that far from having good success several times under him. If Mason wasn't hurt in 16-17 tournament. If Carr gets immediate eligibility like he should have in 18-19.

I know it's stupid to play the "what if" game but I don't think the problems are that hard to overcome. A good coach that can get the best out of the talent he has will attract better talent, even with the NIL disadvantages.

Pitino's problem is that he never recruited/kept enough depth, so they were always one or two injuries away from disaster. Happened in 2018 and 2020.

 

[Go4POV]

I’m one of the old guys here. I’ve had tickers since Musselman was a coach and went to games when I was a kid and John Kundla coached Lou Hudson. I’ve said it before on this forum and I get pounced on and laughed at by the Ben haters, but I think it’s a pipe dream that a coach can rescue this program. The team’s current problems result from losing 3 of 5 starters, 1 to the NBA which is by no means a coaching failure. Blaming Ben for Payne and Hawkins being lured away for twice the $$ they were offered here is simply not realistic. It would have happened very likely irregardless of who the coach was.

We are not going to lure a big-name marquee coach to this school who is going to turn it around.

Recruiting problems at the U go way back. Many kids do not want to be on a large urban campus, they want to be in a college town. We are the coldest campus in the B1G. Kids want to play for an established winner with a good likelihood of going to the Dance.

You fire Ben, you start all over again. Right now he’s got one of the top recruiting classes in the country coming in. Asuma is a solid freshman. The kids like playing for Ben. Look how they’ve responded to adversity and handled the last couple games. Let’s see what happens with shared revenue and hopefully a diminished role for NIL Let’s not go through another firing and rebuilding. I won’t live long enough.

 

[FinnGopher]

Right now he’s got one of the top recruiting classes in the country coming in.

What alzheimers induced fantasy are you living in? (I say with snark, having watched a parent die with Alzheimers)
Ben's fresh out of high school class may or may not be any good. All we know is that Asuma has played well. Our other high school recruits haven't seen the light of day and the gray hairs on the team are mostly one dimensional players. If you imagine Ben is the best we can get, then just high tail it over to St Thomas because they'll be in more Dances than Ben will ever see.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Ben recruited Jack Wilson. I am happy with the team winning 2 in a row but some of his choices over the years are not big ten players.

 

[howeda7]

Starting over

I’m one of the old guys here. I’ve had tickers since Musselman was a coach and went to games when I was a kid and John Kundla coached Lou Hudson. I’ve said it before on this forum and I get pounced on and laughed at by the Ben haters, but I think it’s a pipe dream that a coach can rescue this program. The team’s current problems result from losing 3 of 5 starters, 1 to the NBA which is by no means a coaching failure. Blaming Ben for Payne and Hawkins being lured away for twice the $$ they were offered here is simply not realistic. It would have happened very likely irregardless of who the coach was.

We are not going to lure a big-name marquee coach to this school who is going to turn it around.

Recruiting problems at the U go way back. Many kids do not want to be on a large urban campus, they want to be in a college town. We are the coldest campus in the B1G. Kids want to play for an established winner with a good likelihood of going to the Dance.

You fire Ben, you start all over again. Right now he’s got one of the top recruiting classes in the country coming in. Asuma is a solid freshman. The kids like playing for Ben. Look how they’ve responded to adversity and handled the last couple games. Let’s see what happens with shared revenue and hopefully a diminished role for NIL Let’s not go through another firing and rebuilding. I won’t live long enough.

Starting over from Ben scares you? Starting over from what? At the end of the season we will be 5-15 + or - and Ben's four year record will be ~ 20-59. The only meaningful returning player is Asuma. You couldn't have less reason to retain a coach over fear of starting over than that.

 

[USAF]

I’m one of the old guys here. I’ve had tickers since Musselman was a coach and went to games when I was a kid and John Kundla coached Lou Hudson. I’ve said it before on this forum and I get pounced on and laughed at by the Ben haters, but I think it’s a pipe dream that a coach can rescue this program. The team’s current problems result from losing 3 of 5 starters, 1 to the NBA which is by no means a coaching failure. Blaming Ben for Payne and Hawkins being lured away for twice the $$ they were offered here is simply not realistic. It would have happened very likely irregardless of who the coach was.

We are not going to lure a big-name marquee coach to this school who is going to turn it around.

Recruiting problems at the U go way back. Many kids do not want to be on a large urban campus, they want to be in a college town. We are the coldest campus in the B1G. Kids want to play for an established winner with a good likelihood of going to the Dance.

You fire Ben, you start all over again. Right now he’s got one of the top recruiting classes in the country coming in. Asuma is a solid freshman. The kids like playing for Ben. Look how they’ve responded to adversity and handled the last couple games. Let’s see what happens with shared revenue and hopefully a diminished role for NIL Let’s not go through another firing and rebuilding. I won’t live long enough.

You're giving us old guys a bad name with this nonsense.

 

[FinnGopher]

You're giving us old guys a bad name with this nonsense.

I always wondered if you were in a dogfight with the Red Baron. No?

 

[Go4POV]

What alzheimers induced fantasy are you living in? (I say with snark, having watched a parent die with Alzheimers)

Such a class-less comment, hidden behind the anonymity of a forum. Disagreeing is one thing, I expected that.

 

[Strongazzoffer]

No they won't. Are you forgetting that Pitino was here for eight seasons and four of them resulted in overall losing seasons including one that actually was slightly worse than Ben's worst season? Pitino got a fair shake here. He was here two seasons longer than Tubby and his last four years actually were worse than his first four.

The fact that Ben has performed worse than Pitino to this point in their tenures doesn't make Pitino's record better than it was. At least if Ben is fired after this season, he didn't make us suffer as long as Pitino did.

I never said Pitino didn't get a fair shake here, he definitely used all mine of his lives. Ben's hiring has nothing to do with Pitinos firing other then the events happened right next to each other, plenty of qualified coaches were interested in the job. you can't deny that the media has been far kinder to Ben despite the results and it's pretty obvious why, surprised Souhan is doubling down in his passive aggressive way. Get ready for the U is racist articles in two months. Remember all the bullshit post on social media from guys like Jalen Suggs and Matthew Hurt claiming they were going to come here if Ben was the coach ROTFLMFAO

 

[Strongazzoffer]

I’m one of the old guys here. I’ve had tickers since Musselman was a coach and went to games when I was a kid and John Kundla coached Lou Hudson. I’ve said it before on this forum and I get pounced on and laughed at by the Ben haters, but I think it’s a pipe dream that a coach can rescue this program. The team’s current problems result from losing 3 of 5 starters, 1 to the NBA which is by no means a coaching failure. Blaming Ben for Payne and Hawkins being lured away for twice the $$ they were offered here is simply not realistic. It would have happened very likely irregardless of who the coach was.

We are not going to lure a big-name marquee coach to this school who is going to turn it around.

Recruiting problems at the U go way back. Many kids do not want to be on a large urban campus, they want to be in a college town. We are the coldest campus in the B1G. Kids want to play for an established winner with a good likelihood of going to the Dance.

You fire Ben, you start all over again. Right now he’s got one of the top recruiting classes in the country coming in. Asuma is a solid freshman. The kids like playing for Ben. Look how they’ve responded to adversity and handled the last couple games. Let’s see what happens with shared revenue and hopefully a diminished role for NIL Let’s not go through another firing and rebuilding. I won’t live long enough.

As the saying goes it's not his fault but it's his problem, and Ben failed to find adequate replacements, which is not impossible to do in this environment of free transfers. End of the day it's easier to win here in hoops then it is in football, if PJ can get competent NIL to compete in that sport it's definitely possible in hoops

 

[dlnavra]

I’m one of the old guys here. I’ve had tickers since Musselman was a coach and went to games when I was a kid and John Kundla coached Lou Hudson. I’ve said it before on this forum and I get pounced on and laughed at by the Ben haters, but I think it’s a pipe dream that a coach can rescue this program. The team’s current problems result from losing 3 of 5 starters, 1 to the NBA which is by no means a coaching failure. Blaming Ben for Payne and Hawkins being lured away for twice the $$ they were offered here is simply not realistic. It would have happened very likely irregardless of who the coach was.

We are not going to lure a big-name marquee coach to this school who is going to turn it around.

Recruiting problems at the U go way back. Many kids do not want to be on a large urban campus, they want to be in a college town. We are the coldest campus in the B1G. Kids want to play for an established winner with a good likelihood of going to the Dance.

You fire Ben, you start all over again. Right now he’s got one of the top recruiting classes in the country coming in. Asuma is a solid freshman. The kids like playing for Ben. Look how they’ve responded to adversity and handled the last couple games. Let’s see what happens with shared revenue and hopefully a diminished role for NIL Let’s not go through another firing and rebuilding. I won’t live long enough.

I see where you're coming from, but like it or not, adapting to and working in/with the NIL era is part of the coaches job. You are hoping for a diminished role for NIL, rather than thinking about fact Gophers lost their talented PG to Texas Tech, as if there will never be any way the Gophers can compete (NIL-wise) with Texas Tech. Ben has an experienced SR-laden roster. They shoot free throws at an embarrasing percentage. No doubt they have looked good the past two games. But he'll be starting all over again after this year, other than Asuma.

 

[SelectionSunday]

I never said Pitino didn't get a fair shake here, he definitely used all mine of his lives. Ben's hiring has nothing to do with Pitinos firing other then the events happened right next to each other, plenty of qualified coaches were interested in the job. you can't deny that the media has been far kinder to Ben despite the results and it's pretty obvious why, surprised Souhan is doubling down in his passive aggressive way. Get ready for the U is racist articles in two months. Remember all the bullshit post on social media from guys like Jalen Suggs and Matthew Hurt claiming they were going to come here if Ben was the coach ROTFLMFAO

Truth bomb.

The exact moment I knew the Strib was 100% full of (poop) was when in the aftermath of all the George Floyd stuff, the Strib -- including Souhan -- started applying the pressure to the U to hire a black men's basketball coach, which I found quite ironic. While the Strib was ripping the U for its poor record of hiring minority head coaches IN ALL SPORTS (a valid conversation), it completely underplayed the fact the BEST 2 MEN'S BASKETBALL COACHES at the U since the mid-1980s were Clem Haskins & Tubby Smith (black men). ... and the white guys (Monson, Richard) were not even close.

The U's hiring history of black men's head basketball coaches should have been a 100% non-issue after Richard was fired, but turds at the Strib like Souhan made sure it was. They lumped men's basketball into the U's overall (poor) history of hiring black head coaches even though recent evidence (in a specific sport) suggested (last 4 coaches 2 black, 2 white) that was not an issue.