Souhan on PSU game: "perhaps biggest game since Murray Warmath was coaching"

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RememberMurray said:
Huh?

None of this has anything at all to do with your original statement, which is that it would "shock the college football world" if Minnesota beat Penn State.

I don't think it would "shock the world" at all, or at the very least it shouldn't be a "shock", for the objective reasons I already gave you in my previous post.
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Honestly, you’re trying too hard or like somebody else said this has to be a bit (which is growing increasingly irritating). Find out how many non-homers are willing to take MN straight up and get back to me.
 

MnplsGopher said:
It would be beating a top 5 ranked team, for whatever that is worth.
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I get that.

Auburn was 11.5 point underdogs to LSU last week, would you have been shocked if they won?

I would have been surprised, but I wouldn't have been shocked.

This argument is kind of semantics, so I think it's probably just a matter of your definition of what is "shocking".
 

Again, a 7 point underdog winning a home game is not a major upset.

A 35 point underdog winning a home game is a shocking upset.

It ain't complicated.
 

Point spread aside, it would REALLY start opening up peoples' eyes outside the state of Minnesota.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Honestly, you’re trying too hard or like somebody else said this has to be a bit (which is growing increasingly irritating). Find out how many non-homers are willing to take MN straight up and get back to me.
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That's a pretty bad test for what is or what is not shocking.

The overwhelming vast majority of people will think every single favorite is going to win a game (it's kind of why they're the favorite). So you're shocked every time an underdog wins?
 


RememberMurray said:
Huh?

None of this has anything at all to do with your original statement, which is that it would "shock the college football world" if Minnesota beat Penn State.

I don't think it would "shock the world" at all, or at the very least it shouldn't be a "shock", for the objective reasons I already gave you in my previous post.
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It really shouldn't. Say what you want about the Gophers' schedule. Have you looked at PSU's schedule so far?? They played a then struggling Michigan and a decent Iowa team and St. Mary's school for the blind 6 times (mild exaggeration).

But, that doesn't matter. PSU is inherently "better" than MN until proven otherwise. I truly believe if our schedules and results were flipped our rankings would be the same.

I believe that many fans think MN is a mirage. That as soon as they play a good team they will fold. Hell, many MN fans think that! So I do think it would "shock the world" to some extent. Not 1999 extent, but still.
 

So you’re all wadded up again over a bit of hyperbolic phrasing. A 9-0 Minnesota upsetting a top 5 team is not shocking to you - fine. How about slightly exceeding expectations? Does that work for ya? Don’t get all excited or anything. We’re only 7 point dogs for cripes sake!
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Honestly, you’re trying too hard or like somebody else said this has to be a bit (which is growing increasingly irritating). Find out how many non-homers are willing to take MN straight up and get back to me.
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I'll wait for you to address the point at hand first.

Here it is: Is it really likely, in your mind, that a 7 point underdog winning a home game would "shock the football world" (your original statement)?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
That's a pretty bad test for what is or what is not shocking.

The overwhelming vast majority of people will think every single favorite is going to win a game (it's kind of why they're the favorite). So you're shocked every time an underdog wins?
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See my post above. I think you guys are once again falling into that classically thin-skinned Minnesotan fan stereotype Reusse loves to make fun of (deservedly).

I’m glad you guys are as confident as you seem to be. I expect a very tough game.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
See my post above. I think you guys are once again falling into that classically thin-skinned Minnesotans Reusse makes fun of (deservedly).

I’m glad you guys are as confident as you seem to be. I expect a very tough game.
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The discussion wasn't about that. We all know it's going to be a tough game.

Football is always tough when the goalposts are constantly being moved.
 
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RememberMurray said:
I'll wait for you to address the point at hand first.

Here it is: Is it really likely, in your mind, that a 7 point underdog winning a home game would "shock the football world" (your original statement)?
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Yes, I think an undefeated Minnesota team nobody thinks is in the top tier (yet) defeating PSU will surprise most non-homers. You’re disputing this?

PSU is viewed as a possible CFP contender. MN isn’t getting that respect (that I’ve seen but feel free to share).
 

RememberMurray said:
Football is always tough when the goalposts are constantly being moved.
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The options are you’re expecting a MN win, could see it going either way, or you’re not. Most rational people look at a 7 point line and see that that implies a non PICK EM game.

And, you’re assuming anyone nationally knows anything about MN (they don’t). Read some of the PSU commentary, they don’t know much about us either.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Yes, I think an undefeated Minnesota team nobody thinks is in the top tier (yet) defeating PSU will surprise most non-homers. You’re disputing this?

PSU is viewed as a possible CFP contender. MN isn’t getting that respect (that I’ve seen but feel free to share).
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I'm curious: why do you keep shifting?

"Shock the football world" suddenly becomes "surprise most non-homers".

Not exactly the same thing, is it?
 



Pompous Elitist said:
The options are you’re expecting a MN win, could see it going either way, or you’re not. Most rational people look at a 7 point line and see that that implies a non PICK EM game.

And, you’re assuming anyone nationally knows anything about MN (they don’t). Read some of the PSU commentary, they don’t know much about us either.
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Sigh.

What does any of that have to do with "shocking the football world"?
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
I get that.

Auburn was 11.5 point underdogs to LSU last week, would you have been shocked if they won?

I would have been surprised, but I wouldn't have been shocked.

This argument is kind of semantics, so I think it's probably just a matter of your definition of what is "shocking".
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Yes

Also, the core of the argument is that CFB fans who don't follow Gophers football would be shocked, not that GH posters (or other fans of Gopher football) would be shocked.
 
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RememberMurray said:
I'm curious: why do you keep shifting?

"Shock the football world" suddenly becomes "surprise most non-homers".

Not exactly the same thing, is it?
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They are the same thing, only shock is like "very surprised". So you admit that there would be some level of surprise amongst the CFB world that doesn't follow Gophers football. Simply, the level of surprise is at question. But that's subjective and semantics, so not worth discussing IMO.

That goes against your "bit" on here, of trying to get in everyone's face about how Gophers fans should view our program like Alabama and Ohio State fans view theirs, and admonishing anyone who doesn't for any reason.
 


MnplsGopher said:
They are the same thing, only shock is like "very surprised". So you admit that there would be some level of surprise amongst the CFB world that doesn't follow Gophers football. Simply, the level of surprise is at question. But that's subjective and semantics, so not worth discussing IMO.

That goes against your "bit" on here, of trying to get in everyone's face about how Gophers fan should view our program like Alabama and Ohio State fan view theirs, and admonishing anyone who doesn't for any reason.
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Of course there is some level of surprise LOL. Why is this a diffcult thing to understand.

There is a certain level of surprise every single time a favorite loses a game, the amount of surprise varies depending upon the situation.

For example, I'd be surprised if Penn State beat Ohio State. I would be shocked if Maryland or Rutgers beat Ohio State.

I think the overwhelming vast majority of people would consider "shock" to be more extreme version of "surprise".

So yes, I understand that Penn State is the higher ranked team and the favorite and I would also be surprised if the Gophers pulled off the upset. If I was forced to bet on it straight up, I would bet on Penn State (just like I would bet on just about every single favorite if I was forced to bet straight up).

For me, a 7 point underdog winning does not rise to the level of "shock".

It's a pretty simple and uncontroversial concept.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Of course there is some level of surprise LOL. Why is this a diffcult thing to understand.

There is a certain level of surprise every single time a favorite loses a game, the amount of surprise varies depending upon the situation.

For example, I'd be surprised if Penn State beat Ohio State. I would be shocked if Maryland or Rutgers beat Ohio State.

I think the overwhelming vast majority of people would consider "shock" to be more extreme version of "surprise".

So yes, I understand that Penn State is the higher ranked team and the favorite and I would also be surprised if the Gophers pulled off the upset. If I was forced to bet on it straight up, I would bet on Penn State (just like I would bet on just about every single favorite if I was forced to bet straight up).

For me, a 7 point underdog winning does not rise to the level of "shock".

It's a pretty simple and uncontroversial concept.
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For you.

Again - the core of the argument specifically had not to do with GH posters or other Gophers fans. Not all CFB fans will follow your surprised/shocked rubric.


And -- any level of surprise, goes against RM's bit. Which is a minor tangential thing, but it is true per my observation and I like calling a spade a spade. Even if his intention is good (raise morale, etc.) as opposed to bad (take pleasure from frustrating other posters).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You use the word "surprise" and "shock" interchangeably?

I am surprised by that, not shocked, but surprised.
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There seems to be a bit of a forced obtuse outlook here. I mean what percentage of football fans know:

1. Minnesota is even ranked 13th
2. Minnesota is undefeated
3. Minnesota is a 7 point dog

Even among those aware the general feeling is they haven’t played anyone and will be fortunate to win the west with the upcoming schedule.

I’d advise Murray to avoid other media sites or his blood pressure may precipitate an unfortunate event.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
There seems to be a bit of a forced obtuse outlook here. I mean what percentage of football fans know:

1. Minnesota is even ranked 13th
2. Minnesota is undefeated
3. Minnesota is a 7 point dog

Even among those aware the general feeling is they haven’t played anyone and will be fortunate to win the west with the upcoming schedule.

I’d advise Murray to avoid other media sites or his blood pressure may precipitate an unfortunate event.
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Correct. I was trying to get at this, but apparently did a poor job.

GH posters know that Minnesota is all of those, and so would not be shocked or probably not even that surprised.
 

Please arrange the synonyms for surprised in order of magnitude as general use in North America. Somehow surprise the world just doesn’t have the same ring to it. Can we also decide on a betting line that would qualify as surprising vs shocking should the underdog win? Would the Gophers defeating Ohio State qualify? I genuinely don’t know, I guess... moderate surprise? Lightly shocked?
 

Panthadad2 said:
I have no football related comments.

But I would take brisket over wild rice soup six days a week and twice on Sunday.
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Yes, but what about Wild Rice and Brisket Soup? Sounds tasty to me and I think I just might make.
 

Only on Gopherhole does a thread devolve into differences between the terms "shocked" and "surprised" for an afternoon. :p
 

The semantics discussed don't bother me either way.
I think conventional wisdom says it's Penn State's game to lose, & that the Gophers must over-perform for victory.
My thinking is that they have to come in here & take it from us, & they will have to over-perform for that to happen.
All the numbers, stats, & talk don't mean squat at the end of the day. Can they come in our house & take victory from us?
I don't think so...
 

Pompous Elitist said:
There seems to be a bit of a forced obtuse outlook here. I mean what percentage of football fans know:

1. Minnesota is even ranked 13th
2. Minnesota is undefeated
3. Minnesota is a 7 point dog

Even among those aware the general feeling is they haven’t played anyone and will be fortunate to win the west with the upcoming schedule.

I’d advise Murray to avoid other media sites or his blood pressure may precipitate an unfortunate event.
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My outlook is "forced obtuse" on this? You sited a thesaurus as you pretended to not understand the difference between being "shocked" and being "surprised".

I think we just have to agree to disagree that we use the word "shock" differently.

I also am aware that you are talking about casual college football fans and my point stands. I am fully aware App St. lost last night (it was on the front of ESPN this morning), I know SMU and Baylor are undefeated. . . so yes, I think college football fans know it is a good year for MN. So no, I don't think they would be shocked if MN beat Penn State. Surprised, yes. I wouldn't use the term "shocked".
 

Panthadad2 said:
Only on Gopherhole does a thread devolve into differences between the terms "shocked" and "surprised" for an afternoon. :p
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It's only on Gopherhole where people would pretend to need to have the discussion.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
As much as I love Minnesota, I must confess that in general terms the food is not good, specifically lacks spice and flavor. I couldn't imagine choosing my mothers wild rice soup over my 20 hour smoked brisket. And don't even get me started on the lack of Mexican (Tex-Mex) food in Minnesota, sorry Taco Bell doesn't count.

If the MN/PSU is a blowout, it will be the Gophers on the winning side. I expect a close game, but Gophers will not get blown out.
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While I agree in general on the brisket, the tex/mex stuff? meh! I'd much rather go straight Mexican! Plenty of that here in good ole Minnesota.

Thanks for the Idea! I think I'll go have some authentic tacos and or a burrito. That's just me.

Now Texas Chili with no beans! The only Minnesota chili that tops that is the chili we are cooking on game day!!! Is it really still 7 days plus before the game?

I'm dying here!
 

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