Souhan: Gophers' football success now gets truest test in Badgers

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"Quote Originally Posted by cmart102 View Post
"Already said I was just giving you guys a hard time.
Anyway I'm a Minnesota sports fan, grew up in Uptown. Went to UW hence the Badger fandom. Tbh I think Souhan is right more than not. MN sports teams aren't held accountable by the fans like they should be. That being said with this gopher team I get the reason for optimism, they've put together an admirable season and have something to build on"


GophersInIowa said:
I never really understand this type of statement. It kinda goes hand in hand with those who say so many fans accept mediocrity and they are part of the problem.

How would a fan being more upset and mad while on a message board or while talking to your buddies change anything? Should we all grab our pitchforks and head on over to Leslie Frazier's house? Should we stop going to games when things are bad?

If it takes the fan base to hold a coach, team, or program accountable, then that's indicative of a much larger problem in my opinion: the people in charge don't know what they are doing because they are relying and reacting to what the fans say/do.

Edit: And just to make it clear, most people don't think Souhan is a doosh because of the message (he probably is right many times), it is how he is delivering it.
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It's really become a cliche hasn't it? Now it's used by many people to justify their snakiness and superiority to anyone who doesn't take a "it's ALL crap" approach to life. Often it just underlines their complete ignorance of facts.

Are there teams that it honestly does apply to? Sure; the Toronto Maple Leafs, Chicago Cubs and Washington Redskins come to mind first. Their stadiums are full and their local TV ratings through the years are probably pretty good too.

Minnesota teams? Seriously, how can anybody with at least a cursory knowledge of the situation even think of that let alone put it out there in public for people to read and say "You must be an idiot!"

Not held accountable? Really?

- Take a look at the attendance numbers for all but a handful of the last 50 years of Gopher Football.
- How about attendance at Williams Arena in the last say 10-15 years? Think there have been some tickets available?
- Timberwolves? Are people kidding? When was the last time they sold out more than a half dozen or so games a year. When was the last time they sold-out more than TWO? This year they have sold about 8,000 to 9,000 Season Tickets. That means before single game tickets were sold they had ten thousand available for every game. That's over half Target Center's capacity!

Oh, and the TV numbers? Let's say there are probably a number of reality shows that beat them.

- The Wild? People certainly have been filling that arena, no argument there. TV numbers? Virtually non-existent.
- The Twins have filled-up Target Field. How about the 15 years before that in the Dome or nearly every year in Bloomington? And their TV numbers the last 2 years show that people are abounding ship. How long before that happens at the ballpark?
- Now the Vikings. Whiners may have something here. Attendance has for most part held-up even in bad years. TV numbers are also always strong. Now for criticism?

Hasn't seem to have had much of an affect has it?

Long damn post for the 15-20 people that will read it huh? :cool:
 

cmart102 said:
Went to UW hence the Badger fandom. Tbh I think Souhan is right more than not.
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These 2 phrases might be the two worst things I have ever read in my life. But then, they might just be very compatible mindsets.

Anyways, worthless, unsolicited BADger fan weighing in aside, my biggest gripe with his article is this:
"When a punter dropped a snap and the Gophers lost in shocking fashion to Wisconsin in 2005, fans judged that play to be an indictment of Glen Mason’s program."

I couldn't disagree with this more. I do not recall this being the mindset at all. The 2003 loss to Michigan and the bowl loss to Texas Tech were the far bigger biggest indictments of Mason's program.
 


Here is a front page cbssports article that includes an excerpt of Jerry essentially cussing out Souhan.

"The awareness of his condition has given Kill a cause. He admits to being driven by a local columnist who suggested in September the coach "is not healthy enough to lead."

"Kiss my ass," Kill said, growing agitated behind his desk. "I'm going to show you. I'm a Division I coach, OK? I've got epilepsy. I've been doing this [expletive] and winning for a long time. I'll show you.""

I love it.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...s-own-conflicts-as-minnesota-keeps-on-winning
 

cmart102 said:
Already said I was just giving you guys a hard time.

Anyway I'm a Minnesota sports fan, grew up in Uptown. Went to UW hence the Badger fandom. Tbh I think Souhan is right more than not. MN sports teams aren't held accountable by the fans like they should be. That being said with this gopher team I get the reason for optimism, they've put together an admirable season and have something to build on
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Are you the same "cmart102" who riddled off like 30 troll comments on The Daily Gopher in the span of an hour? You clearly have an exciting, fulfilling life outside of the internet.
 


Section2 said:
There is no way to take issue with an opinion piece unless there are factual inaccuracies?
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Here's one. I've had vertigo, and you don't need to be off the ground to know.

I will never click one of his columns.
 


killme said:
I don't click on the Tribune. Haven't since he vomited up the awful collection of words earlier in the year. If it's not pasted here, I don't know what he says. After reading this, I know I'm better off. What a dis-likable person. Wish he'd go find something important to cover instead.
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Same here. The guy is a piece of s&*# and I encourage everyone else to avoid clicking on ANY of his articles. That's the only way the Strib potentially ever gets it. Everything else to them is just noise. In fact, they probably like it since it brings them publicity, clicks, and in turn revenue.

On a personal note, I believe the "why" is mostly because many in the local media got their feelings hurt. Things didn't go they way they expected, or wanted them to so they've decided to pout. They expected Kill to fail miserably. He hasn't. They all crowed about how the epilepsy and seizures would SURELY lead to him resigning or being fired. They didn't. Then they weren't pleased with the fact the U didn't respond to the issues in a way that made their jobs easier, so they've been bitter.

Souhan is by far the worst, but Zulgad is also extremely bitter. He has called for Kill to be fired and even now continues to get his cheap shots in whenever possible while also minimizing the Gophers success this year.
 

g1976b said:
Same here. The guy is a piece of s&*# and I encourage everyone else to avoid clicking on ANY of his articles. That's the only way the Strib potentially ever gets it. Everything else to them is just noise. In fact, they probably like it since it brings them publicity, clicks, and in turn revenue.

On a personal note, I believe the "why" is mostly because many in the local media got their feelings hurt. Things didn't go they way they expected, or wanted them to so they've decided to pout. They expected Kill to fail miserably. He hasn't. They all crowed about how the epilepsy and seizures would SURELY lead to him resigning or being fired. They didn't. Then they weren't pleased with the fact the U didn't respond to the issues in a way that made their jobs easier, so they've been bitter.

Souhan is by far the worst, but Zulgad is also extremely bitter. He has called for Kill to be fired and even now continues to get his cheap shots in whenever possible while also minimizing the Gophers success this year.
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Souhan is very blatant about it. Zulgad is passive aggressive about it. He downplays Kills accomplishments constantly and tries to give Tracy Claeys all the credit. Yet, Tracy Claeys is sharing the credit so it makes Zulgad look like a buffoon.
 




Zulgad's a nobody.

I used to like Dubay during his KFAN days, but Zulgad & Dubay together are un-listenable.
 

Amazing contrast between the material put out by ESPN and CBS today, vs what Souhan wrote. It is like day and night.
 

Souhan on the 1500 morning show is also a joke. They have him on and ask him questions as if he is an expert. He has proven in his writing that he is far from an expert. I was excited when Dubay came back, but he has become unlistenable with his new side kick. Which is too bad, I was a big fan.
 



Schnauzer said:
Amazing contrast between the material put out by ESPN and CBS today, vs what Souhan wrote. It is like day and night.
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I had the same thought. Kinda sad that Souhan writes that crap and somebody from out of town comes in and covers the story 3,4874,524 times better than Souhan does. He probably could write an outstanding article. The man chooses not to.
 

RochesterGopher said:
I had the same thought. Kinda sad that Souhan writes that crap and somebody from out of town comes in and covers the story 3,4874,524 times better than Souhan does. He probably could write an outstanding article. The man chooses not to.
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How did you arrive at that number? Seems a little low to me. JMHO
 



Agree that the Judd & Dubay show is incredibly boring. It is a radio version of Dumb and Dumber. When Judd asks a guest a question he always gives his take before he allows the guest to answer. This then prompts to guest to say they agree. Even the despicable "The Herd" was better.
 

GoldAlum said:
Agree that the Judd & Dubay show is incredibly boring. It is a radio version of Dumb and Dumber. When Judd asks a guest a question he always gives his take before he allows the guest to answer. This then prompts to guest to say they agree. Even the despicable "The Herd" was better.
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Very annoying.
 


GopherFanatic19 said:
So you don't have to give this guy clicks to read it!

Gopher Nation is right to be angry at ESPN for refusing to bring College GameDay to the Minnesota campus. Without the GameDay staff, how will Gopher Nation fill the stadium?

Lost amid the reported euphoria surrounding the Gophers football team’s four-game winning streak are two facts:

1. Huge swaths of seats at TCF Bank Stadium have gone unfilled for victories over two of the big names in college football, Nebraska and Penn State.

2. The Gophers have beaten four teams that, in retrospect, rank somewhere between mediocre and outright lousy.

That’s why this Saturday’s game, against Wisconsin at The Bank, is so important to the Gophers program.

The stage isn’t just set. It’s also empty.

The Vikings are a clown car rolling downhill with burning tires. The winter sports are mired in their early-season slog of uninteresting games. For the first time in years, the Gophers have the most captivating football team in town, the better record, the better quarterbacks, the better coaching staff.

For the first time in decades, Gophers-Wisconsin is more compelling than Vikings-Packers.

These moments don’t arrive often, and it’s incumbent on the Gophers to take advantage of this.

And for Gophers football, the bar is low. All they have to do is avoid getting embarrassed.

Everyone in town understands that Wisconsin has the superior program and team. A competitive loss might actually gain the Gophers more credibility than some of their victories.

Now that the Gophers have climbed the ladder to national respectability, they have to worry about falling. You don’t find out you have vertigo until you get off the ground.

Their 20-17 victory over Northwestern provided sweet relief for a program that seemed a loss or two away from reassessing Jerry Kill’s employability. The Gophers celebrated like they had won the Rose Bowl.

Now we know that Northwestern was dependent on its two star offensive players who missed the Gophers game and that Northwestern might have to win its last game, at Illinois, to avoid going winless in the Big Ten.

The Gophers’ 34-23 victory over Nebraska shocked because of the history of, and between, the two programs. It was correctly judged to be Kill’s signature victory, as his staff easily outcoached Bo Pelini.

Now we also know that Nebraska has yet to beat a good team this season, unless you count Michigan, which has lost three of its past five.

The Gophers’ 42-39 victory over Indiana provided a hint of karma, as a Minnesota football team actually caught a break when the Hoosiers killed a potential game-winning drive by not covering a lateral. It was correctly viewed as an important victory, because the Gophers rarely win at Indiana, and because it elevated the Gophers’ chances of a winning Big Ten record and a desirable bowl.

Now we also know that Indiana has lost four of its past five and last week lost to Wisconsin 51-3.

Likewise, the Gophers’ 24-10 victory over Penn State should be considered more important than impressive.

Penn State is 3-3 in the Big Ten. Like Nebraska, its only supposedly impressive victory came against a now-suspect Michigan team in four overtimes.

Beat Wisconsin, and Kill can replace the Nebraska win with a true signature victory over an undeniably good team and power program.

Gophers fans hate to admit it, but Wisconsin is their role model, a formerly laughable football program that hired one power coach, Barry Alvarez, and became forever transformed.

That’s why even a victory on Saturday isn’t necessary. If Kill’s players can handle the pressure of playing well after having raised expectations for the program and look like a well-run squad against a superior team in Kill’s third year, they will have served notice to their rivals and the nation that better days are ahead.

Here’s how much the standards have changed for the Gophers football program, thanks to the inane tenure of Tim Brewster:

When a punter dropped a snap and the Gophers lost in shocking fashion to Wisconsin in 2005, fans judged that play to be an indictment of Glen Mason’s program.

If the Gophers lose on Saturday because of a dropped snap, they will be praised for making so much progress.
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Have you ever heard of copyright laws?
 

Tough to read. While very little of it was factually inaccurate, it was looking at everything from the most negative viewpoint possible. The B1G is undeniably down this year, so who really counts as a "good" win? Ohio State, Michigan State, and Wisconsin? It's tough for the teams the Gophers have beaten to have a good win when tOSU and MSU are undefeated in conference play and Wisconsin has lost just once. The comment about Northwestern being win less is also factually correct, but leaves out the fact that they played tOSU tougher than anyone and have had a number of heart breaking losses. I don't agree with the point that a respectable showing will do much for the program in terms of increased interest, that's only going to appease hard core message board posters. The general public needs to see a win against Wisconsin and a real bowl game before buying in to the Gophers.

I do continue to be amazed by the number of people who thought the Gophers lost that game against Wisconsin because of a dropped snap. The Gophers were punting from deep in their own territory and Wisconsin needed only a fg to force that game in to OT where they had all the momentum. The Gophers had just allowed a brutal (I looked it up) 7 play 71 yard TD drive in just 1:14 and Wisconsin's previous drive was a 4 play 44 yard TD drive that took all of 1:24. The Gopher defense was MELTING DOWN and I remember feeling like a loss was going to happen as soon as the Gophers failed to get the first down and were going to have to give the ball back to Wisconsin. Gophers were favored that day too
 

EG#9 said:
I do continue to be amazed by the number of people who thought the Gophers lost that game against Wisconsin because of a dropped snap. The Gophers were punting from deep in their own territory and Wisconsin needed only a fg to force that game in to OT where they had all the momentum. The Gophers had just allowed a brutal (I looked it up) 7 play 71 yard TD drive in just 1:14 and Wisconsin's previous drive was a 4 play 44 yard TD drive that took all of 1:24. The Gopher defense was MELTING DOWN and I remember feeling like a loss was going to happen as soon as the Gophers failed to get the first down and were going to have to give the ball back to Wisconsin. Gophers were favored that day too
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Even before the snap, I think taking the safety would have been the correct play there. Realistically, the badgers were going to win if they got another fg (as they alluded to). Might as well give the two points and punt from a much more advantageous field position and situation. Of course, this is all quite easy to say in hindsight.
 

EG#9 said:
Tough to read. While very little of it was factually inaccurate, it was looking at everything from the most negative viewpoint possible. The B1G is undeniably down this year, so who really counts as a "good" win? Ohio State, Michigan State, and Wisconsin? It's tough for the teams the Gophers have beaten to have a good win when tOSU and MSU are undefeated in conference play and Wisconsin has lost just once. The comment about Northwestern being win less is also factually correct, but leaves out the fact that they played tOSU tougher than anyone and have had a number of heart breaking losses. I don't agree with the point that a respectable showing will do much for the program in terms of increased interest, that's only going to appease hard core message board posters. The general public needs to see a win against Wisconsin and a real bowl game before buying in to the Gophers.

I do continue to be amazed by the number of people who thought the Gophers lost that game against Wisconsin because of a dropped snap. The Gophers were punting from deep in their own territory and Wisconsin needed only a fg to force that game in to OT where they had all the momentum. The Gophers had just allowed a brutal (I looked it up) 7 play 71 yard TD drive in just 1:14 and Wisconsin's previous drive was a 4 play 44 yard TD drive that took all of 1:24. The Gopher defense was MELTING DOWN and I remember feeling like a loss was going to happen as soon as the Gophers failed to get the first down and were going to have to give the ball back to Wisconsin. Gophers were favored that day too[/QUOTE]


It's all conjecture, but if the rules would have been the same then as they are now, the Gophers probably win that game. Tony Mortensen was the Gophers' QB that day and I distinctly remember a 4th quarter play (I think it was at the 5:00 mark or so where he was running hear the sideline and got knocked out of bounds stopping the clock. I think the clock starts again in that same situation now (could be wrong on that). I remember thinking when it happened, "I hope that doesn't come back to bite us."

But that was an ending to all endings. Dom Jones' personal foul on the TD pass to Williams that allowed Wisconsin to kick off from mid-field also contributed. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion on Mason, but most everyone has to agree that he wasn't the luckiest coach to stride the Gopher sideline.

Speaking of Mason, anyone seen wren? Not trying to be snarky, but I haven't seen him post in a bit.
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Before we punted I believe it was 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 1. I am not sure if the handoff was to Maroney or Barber but if we got a first down the game would have been over.
 

The remarkable thing about that game was the number of things that had to go wrong to get the Gophers to that point. On Wisconsin's touchdown on the previous drive, the Gophers got a facemasking penalty which was obviously unintentional but also obviously blatant enough that it had to be called; this moved Wisconsin 15 yards closer for the ensuing onside kick. Then, in the scramble for that kick the ball was knocked 20 or so yards towards the UM goal line before the Gophers recovered it. It was those two fluky things that led to the Gophers punting from the end zone after they inevitably failed to make a first down. I don't think it's stretching things to say Kucek felt more pressure and was likelier to drop a snap in the end zone than if he had been punting from, say, his 35 yard line.
 


EG#9 said:
Tough to read. While very little of it was factually inaccurate, it was looking at everything from the most negative viewpoint possible. The B1G is undeniably down this year, so who really counts as a "good" win? Ohio State, Michigan State, and Wisconsin? It's tough for the teams the Gophers have beaten to have a good win when tOSU and MSU are undefeated in conference play and Wisconsin has lost just once. The comment about Northwestern being win less is also factually correct, but leaves out the fact that they played tOSU tougher than anyone and have had a number of heart breaking losses. I don't agree with the point that a respectable showing will do much for the program in terms of increased interest, that's only going to appease hard core message board posters. The general public needs to see a win against Wisconsin and a real bowl game before buying in to the Gophers.

I do continue to be amazed by the number of people who thought the Gophers lost that game against Wisconsin because of a dropped snap. The Gophers were punting from deep in their own territory and Wisconsin needed only a fg to force that game in to OT where they had all the momentum. The Gophers had just allowed a brutal (I looked it up) 7 play 71 yard TD drive in just 1:14 and Wisconsin's previous drive was a 4 play 44 yard TD drive that took all of 1:24. The Gopher defense was MELTING DOWN and I remember feeling like a loss was going to happen as soon as the Gophers failed to get the first down and were going to have to give the ball back to Wisconsin. Gophers were favored that day too
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All we needed was a first down was correct. On the kickoff Maroney got hammered on the 5 by about 10 guys... He was completely exhausted. I was there looking at him. Mase then gave him the ball 3 straight times. He had about 40 carries that day. Gary Russell was sitting on the bench. If he gives it to him we get a first down. I have no idea how he couldn't see Maroney had nothing left. Then not coaching the kid about taking a safety if a bad snap. Not a good coaching effort at the end of that game.
 

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