Souhan: As for Pitino, Gophers fans should stop treating him like he ruined the program. Don't blame him. Blame Teague

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BleedGopher

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per Souhan:

Given how he was hired and by whom, Pitino should be remembered as an overachiever.

Remember, he was hired by a now-disgraced athletic director, Norwood Teague, who sold himself as a college basketball guru but couldn't get anyone to take the job after he fired Tubby Smith on the heels of a victory in the 2013 NCAA tournament.

Pitino was Teague's eighth choice or so. He was hired because Teague ran out of options. Pitino was hired to take over for a coach who would go into the Hall of Fame, hired to take over a program that, ever since Clem Haskins was revealed as a cheater, has been mostly cloudy with moments of sunshine.

Pitino was hired to compete with the titans of the Big Ten when he should have been apprenticing for one of them.

www.startribune.com

Why we should remember Richard Pitino as an overachiever in Minnesota

Pitino won only 36% of his Big Ten games, which sounds terrible unless you consider modern Gophers basketball history.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!
 

I don't blame Pitino and I never did. He was in over his head here in a job that given his lack of experience was just too big for him. That's not his fault. It's just a shame that we (speaking in terms of the U administration) wasted 8 far too long years in coming to that determination.
 

I do not think he ruined the program. He simply did not improve it and did not succeed at his job. Teague was a fool for hiring him. This is a tough job but a great job. Finding and hetting the right person is the hard part.
 

I think he was hired five years too soon in his career. He didn't have the foundation to grow into the job and he hadn't developed the network of contacts to make recruiting easier. He had a great understanding of the PR side of the program.
 



builtbadgers said:
I do not think he ruined the program. He simply did not improve it and did not succeed at his job. Teague was a fool for hiring him. This is a tough job but a great job. Finding and hetting the right person is the hard part.
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jamiche said:
I think he was hired five years too soon in his career. He didn't have the foundation to grow into the job and he hadn't developed the network of contacts to make recruiting easier. He had a great understanding of the PR side of the program.
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This and this.

We were hoping he was a coaching prodigy, but he simply came to us under-cooked, and the Big Ten is a tough place to cut your teeth.

I wish him success, but it's going to be up to him to develop himself into a well-rounded professional. That's what each and every person faces in their professional life, and being born on whatever base only gets you so far. When you get thrown in the deep end of the pool, you're on your own.
 

I am not buying the Suggs and Hurt argument that the gophers never had a chance with them because of Gonzaga and Duke are premiere programs. Richard had 8 years to build relationships with local recruits and coaches and he didn't do it. By year 4 he should have been competitive for the elite prospects from MN like the Jones brothers, Suggs, and Hurt and so many others.

I also think Whalen should be held accountable for Bueckers never seriously considering the gophers.
 


Feels like Souhan is trying to create a complaint that doesn't really exist to justify his take. Have heard very few people ever claim Pitino ruined the program. The general consensus was that he wasn't the right fit for what the program needed but he didn't destroy anything.

The school was patient and gave him time to get it sorted out. But at some point, when the results aren't there you just have to move on and try something different.
 



Ruined the program?

Pitino inherited a middle to bottom of the B1G program and they are still a middle to bottom of the B1G program.
 

Ralph said:
I am not buying the Suggs and Hurt argument that the gophers never had a chance with them because of Gonzaga and Duke are premiere programs. Richard had 8 years to build relationships with local recruits and coaches and he didn't do it. By year 4 he should have been competitive for the elite prospects from MN like the Jones brothers, Suggs, and Hurt and so many others.

I also think Whalen should be held accountable for Bueckers never seriously considering the gophers.
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I don't know if Whalen should be held accountable for Bueckers. However, nobody knows better what's really going on inside of a program than recruits, especially local recruits, and their families. My guess is that the grapevine is pretty reliable and if you aren't getting premier recruits it's not just because the elite programs are involved.
 

jamiche said:
I don't know if Whalen should be held accountable for Bueckers. However, nobody knows better what's really going on inside of a program than recruits, especially local recruits, and their families. My guess is that the grapevine is pretty reliable and if you aren't getting premier recruits it's not just because the elite programs are involved.
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What I remember hearing is that she definitely wasn't staying here before the Whalen hire, but the new coaching situation at least made her think twice for a moment. It was realistically too late by that time.
 

Part of the reason he was hired was connections to his dad and Billy Donovan, he had two all time greats to lean on for advice and improvement. Great guy but had zero clue how to elevate his own performance or the program's.
 



Ralph said:
I am not buying the Suggs and Hurt argument that the gophers never had a chance with them because of Gonzaga and Duke are premiere programs. Richard had 8 years to build relationships with local recruits and coaches and he didn't do it. By year 4 he should have been competitive for the elite prospects from MN like the Jones brothers, Suggs, and Hurt and so many others.

I also think Whalen should be held accountable for Bueckers never seriously considering the gophers.
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You will be disappointed if you think the next coach will all of a sudden start landing the five star players out of Minnesota. Maybe things will change but currently this isn't the state of college basketball. Any of these guys would look good in a Gopher uniform but it isn't a guarantee of changing the trajectory of the program. Jalen Suggs wouldn't have brought this team to a final four. Matthew Hurt was option 1A on the first Duke team to not make the tournament in 30 years. Romeo Langford was a disaster for Indiana. Kris Humphries led the Gophers to one of their least enjoyable teams to watch in recent memory (at least for me).

We would be much better served to try to emulate a program like Wisconsin, Virginia, or even Iowa. Develop a defensive identity. Get a bunch of solid 3/4 star players and most importantly find a coach.
 

Teague spent to much time trying to hire Shaka Smart. When that failed the job fell to Pitino as he had no other options.
 

golfing18now said:
You will be disappointed if you think the next coach will all of a sudden start landing the five star players out of Minnesota. Maybe things will change but currently this isn't the state of college basketball. Any of these guys would look good in a Gopher uniform but it isn't a guarantee of changing the trajectory of the program. Jalen Suggs wouldn't have brought this team to a final four. Matthew Hurt was option 1A on the first Duke team to not make the tournament in 30 years. Romeo Langford was a disaster for Indiana. Kris Humphries led the Gophers to one of their least enjoyable teams to watch in recent memory (at least for me).

We would be much better served to try to emulate a program like Wisconsin, Virginia, or even Iowa. Develop a defensive identity. Get a bunch of solid 3/4 star players and most importantly find a coach.
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Good points, but keep in mind that UW wouldn't have contended for the national title those couple years if it hadn't been for the 5-stars Butch and Dekker respectively. Getting that caliber of player from time to time must be an objective.
 

Ruining a program implies taking a highly successful program and completely tanking it. Obviously that didn't happen under Pitino, so it is true to say he didn't "ruin" the program. And it is also true that he shouldn't have been hired in the first place, which falls on Teague.

The issue I have is making an argument against something that never existed. Who are these folks claiming he ruined the program? Since the news came down last night, I've seen a lot of local media members on social media trying their hardest to imply either 1. He did a pretty good job here or 2. Even when he failed, it wasn't really his fault due to bad luck (injuries) etc...Here's a little insight: It's possible he was an earnest, honest and forthright representative of the program that was well-liked but was still bad at his job.

Some of it isn't necessarily his fault due to the fact he was always in over his head at the U, but Richard isn't a victim here. He tried his best, wasn't good enough at his job and made a ton of money in the process, all of which is just the way it goes. He isn't some tragic figure.

With that said, I'll wish him all the best moving forward in whatever future endeavors his coaching career might hold.

But man there is a lot of fawning over Richard going on at the moment.
 

He didn’t grow as a coach fast enough to warrant coaching this long in the B1G.

He also had some very bad luck and didn’t know how to coach around it.
 

Souhan is a complete dope. We all agree with the main point of the article - Pitino was hired way too soon. Most of us actually like the guy, it just didn't work out here. He had 8 seasons and we are at the same (actually somewhat lower) position we were before he was hired.

The funny thing about Souhan's argument is that he pieces it together in such stupid fashion that it's actually more insulting than how most Gopher fans have worded it. He is essentially saying "don't blame Pitino, blame Norwood Teague for being so incompetent that he would hire Pitino.". Could you imagine being dumb enough to think that's defending Pitino?
 

Gophers fans should stop treating him like he ruined the program​


I love it when these guys (Barreiro does it a lot) toss out statements like this as if they have a pulse on what a whole fan base is saying or feeling. Then they proceed to lecture the fan base on how much of an idiot they are.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Souhan is a complete dope. We all agree with the main point of the article - Pitino was hired way too soon. Most of us actually like the guy, it just didn't work out here. He had 8 seasons and we are at the same (actually somewhat lower) position we were before he was hired.

The funny thing about Souhan's argument is that he pieces it together in such stupid fashion that it's actually more insulting than how most Gopher fans have worded it. He is essentially saying "don't blame Pitino, blame Norwood Teague for being so incompetent that he would hire Pitino.". Could you imagine being dumb enough to think that's defending Pitino?
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Souhan is a less talented, "fit" Reusse.
 

Largely agree with most of what soupcan wrote but not the main premise that he was to blame for something. There is nothing to blame him for at all except a record that wasn't good enough. By and large Pitino was a good caretaker of the program. He didn't turn us into a perennial doormat and somewhere nobody wanted to play. We're still a decent team capable of beating top teams in the country and have good student athletes.
 

GoldenUMNGopher said:

Gophers fans should stop treating him like he ruined the program​


I love it when these guys (Barreiro does it a lot) toss out statements like this as if they have a pulse on what a whole fan base is saying or feeling. Then they proceed to lecture the fan base on how much of an idiot they are.
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That's a good deal of his schtick: set up those straw-man arguments against a fictional idiot fan and then attack the entire fan base as being that fictional character.
 

I think Souhan missed the mark in his wording.

Rather, I think what he meant to say was something like "ruined the potential of the program".

That I could buy. Obviously not ruined the program itself. That's way too far.
 

Tubby Smith was run out of KY because after his recruits were on the team it did not match the expectations of KY fans.
Having his son on the team was not helpful.
KY is a school like many others who do not have any reputation for scholarship and depend on sports for national recognition.
To me his time at MN was semi retirement for Smith.
He seemed more interested in his missions to Africa than recruiting.
So he was fired without a certain replacement.
That was a serious failure of the AD.
I hope Coyle has a certain replacement in hand.
 

Plato said:
KY is a school like many others who do not have any reputation for scholarship and depend on sports for national recognition.
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So true.

Great thing about the Big Ten, and what sets it apart.
 

I have not heard anyone, even on Gopherhole, say he ruined the program.

Setting up a strawman is the laziest argumentative tool.
 

What is this quibbling about Either/Or? Why can't we blame both of them?
 

Of course, Pitino didn't "ruin" the program. He simply made us miserable for at least five of his eight seasons.
 

From what I have seen and heard from RP is that his philosophy and program ID has not been established nor effective. He came her touting tough, aggressive D, press and up temp offense. Teague bought in. Problem is we saw none of the above. We all saw a different and ineffective, predictable version of PitinoBall. Opposing coaches always knew how to game plan against the Gophers as RP was predictable and seldom adjusted his approach. NM saw PitinoBall in action and somehow hired him in spite of his ineffective program ID and jack of success. Strange.
 

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