Soucheray: U of M player of character would have cleared the building helped woman

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justthefacts said:
The Yale case seems pretty similar:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...onduct-was-consensual/?utm_term=.6354b9615942

In fact, it seems the accused may even have a stronger case in that one.

EDIT: I'm not saying there's no racism on the Minnesota campus. There probably is; I'd have no idea. I'm just saying that your argument seems ill-considered at best.
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Yale is not Minnesota. We are discussing Minnesota's policy and behavior. In the last year, we have African American men getting tossed out for having sex with white women.

Show me a case of white men or white women being suspended and expelled from the University of Minnesota.
 

Maximus said:
How many white U of M students were in attendance that night?
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Who knows? The U of M didn't investigate them.
Can you see the racism and culturalism at the University? Or are you just conveniently ignoring it?
 

MennoSota said:
Yale is not Minnesota. We are discussing Minnesota's policy and behavior. In the last year, we have African American men getting tossed out for having sex with white women.

Show me a case of white men or white women being suspended and expelled from the University of Minnesota.
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Well they videotaped it and put it on Twitter....so not exactly...

Plus were the basketball players expelled?
 

MennoSota said:
Yale is not Minnesota. We are discussing Minnesota's policy and behavior. In the last year, we have African American men getting tossed out for having sex with white women.

Show me a case of white men or white women being suspended and expelled from the University of Minnesota.
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Considering that information is all confidential and protected by law I'm guessing you don't have any real information on how often white people are investigated by EEOA, how often those investigations lead to disciplinary actions or how the facts would compare to this case to conclude whether white people have it easier. You're just spouting random nonsense.
 

Genious said:
Considering that information is all confidential and protected by law I'm guessing you don't have any real information on how often white people are investigated by EEOA, how often those investigations lead to disciplinary actions or how the facts would compare to this case to conclude whether white people have it easier. You're just spouting random nonsense.
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Ignore the racism at the U of M if you wish. This case sheds light on it and you wish to cover up the light.
 


MennoSota said:
Ignore the racism at the U of M if you wish. This case sheds light on it and you wish to cover up the light.
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Explain how to get to the conclusion that the U of M is racist in matters of student discipline. Please.
 


So, after all the legalities, the due processes arguments and everything else, we are still left with Soucheray's point.

The best information we have about the behavior of the players is unequivically repulsive. Period. For the police, consent matters to determine if there is a basis for a successful prosecution. They decided there wasn't a basis for prosecution and I can accept that. Just as I believe players should get a fair hearing. If the report turns out to be highly inaccurate in its descriptions of the event, I will change my mind, but that appears very doubtful. And some parts of the handling of this by the University is troubling.

None of that changes what appears to be revolting behavior on the part of the players. I am disgusted by the serial sexual exploitation of a woman, even if that woman had fully consented.

And if you look at the assumptions made about her, and the hostility she has no doubt endured, I think it should surprise no one that so many sexual assaults go unreported. The decision not to prosecute due to a lack of evidence sufficient for a conviction is NOT evidence that she lied. I hope she can put her life back together and get beyond this.

But I still agree with Soucheray's point: Cut through the process and and legalities, and you still have what appears to be disgusting behavior by players on our team. Without a strong reason to believe otherwise, that simply can't be rationalized away.
 

Maximus said:
Didn't investigate who?
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Unnamed, non-existent white people. MennoSota went off the rails somewhere along the way in this thread and randomly, baselessly concluded that the investigation was a racist witchhunt conducted by women of color on the EEOA to systematically protect white men.
 



Genious said:
Unnamed, non-existent white people. MennoSota went off the rails somewhere along the way in this thread and randomly, baselessly concluded that the investigation was a racist witchhunt conducted by women of color on the EEOA to systematically protect white men.
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Are there no white people at the U of M or do white people at the U of M only have missionary style sex with their wife/husband?

What we do know is that black men have been put on social trial in front of the public and no other group of people have been treated similarly.
You seem to think that it's just the norm and you are ambivalent to any others.
Yep, that's a racist attitude you share. You are a shining example of supporting institutional racism. The sad thing is you can't see it.
Take your cultural goggles off.
 

MennoSota said:
Yale is not Minnesota. We are discussing Minnesota's policy and behavior. In the last year, we have African American men getting tossed out for having sex with white women.

Show me a case of white men or white women being suspended and expelled from the University of Minnesota.
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Something tells me not all of these people were black:

http://www.mndailyprojects.com/sex-assault/

I'd also point out that just last year this happened:

Hewitt "proactively contacted the Athletics Department to initiate discussions on whether reports of sexual assault and harassment constituted a broader pattern. All of these reports were fully investigated to the extent that they could be and the Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action (EOAA) did not substantiate any sexual assault allegations. The EOAA Office substantiated one allegation of sexual harassment," Goetz said in a statement Thursday.

I suppose all of those cases could have involved white players.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/15/university-of-minnesota-sexual-harassment
 


MennoSota said:
Are there no white people at the U of M or do white people at the U of M only have missionary style sex with their wife/husband?

What we do know is that black men have been put on social trial in front of the public and no other group of people have been treated similarly.
You seem to think that it's just the norm and you are ambivalent to any others.
Yep, that's a racist attitude you share. You are a shining example of supporting institutional racism. The sad thing is you can't see it.
Take your cultural goggles off.
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Disagreeing with your utterly unsupported conclusion (fantasy) that a panel of multi-racial, multi-cultural women is racist in favor of white males makes me racist. Where's my therapist's phone number!?!
 



MennoSota said:
Shall we count up the number of UM students by race and see what the percentage is regarding those who are suspended or expelled?
No matter how you slice it, the U of M is a racist institution.
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You need to step away from your keyboard. You are so unhinged it's becoming creepy. If you're not currently institutionalized at least tell the board your county of residence so proper precautions can be taken.
 

Genious said:
Disagreeing with your utterly unsupported conclusion (fantasy) that a panel of multi-racial, multi-cultural women is racist in favor of white males makes me racist. Where's my therapist's phone number!?!
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Where do I make that claim. You take a huge leap in illogic.
What I do claim is that 10 black men have been socially lynched by Minnesotans.
I claim that the U of M has targeted black males at a much higher rate than other groups. I claim that is because of institutional racism, of which you seem to approve.
 

Genious said:
You need to step away from your keyboard. You are so unhinged it's becoming creepy. If you're not currently institutionalized at least tell the board your county of residence so proper precautions can be taken.
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LOL, that is how racists talk. Nice job. When do you intend to get out the water canons? [emoji41]
 

Genious said:
Unnamed, non-existent white people. MennoSota went off the rails somewhere along the way in this thread and randomly, baselessly concluded that the investigation was a racist witchhunt conducted by women of color on the EEOA to systematically protect white men.
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He's always been off the rails. Never made sense. It's best to just ignore him.
 

MennoSota said:
Shall we count up the number of UM students by race and see what the percentage is regarding those who are suspended or expelled?
No matter how you slice it, the U of M is a racist institution.
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Total BS. Let me get this straight... 5 black guys are involved in group sex with a drunken co-ed at 3:00 a.m. Another five are involved in one way or another. Plus a recruit (not sure of his race, I haven't seen anything). Police investigate (at least one of the investigating officers was white). They find not enough evidence to bring charges. Players are reinstated by white coach. Complaint is filed with EEOC, one of the most leftist leaning organizations on campus. Led by woman of color, they find that there was wrongdoing somehow in the drunken g-bang. Huh... imagine that. Questionable activity included group texts with the aforementiomned group of players referring to women as "b**thes" and "h*es"). EEOC decides to give out penalties. The team, led by a couple of whitey spokespeople "locks arms" as a brotherhood. White coach stupidly tweets support, risking his job doing so. Yeah... that sounds like a lynch party to me. Ridiculous.
 

Crosby said:
Total BS. Let me get this straight... 5 black guys are involved in group sex with a drunken co-ed at 3:00 a.m. Another five are involved in one way or another. Plus a recruit (not sure of his race, I haven't seen anything). Police investigate (at least one of the investigating officers was white). They find not enough evidence to bring charges. Players are reinstated by white coach. Complaint is filed with EEOC, one of the most leftist leaning organizations on campus. Led by woman of color, they find that there was wrongdoing somehow in the drunken g-bang. Huh... imagine that. Questionable activity included group texts with the aforementiomned group of players referring to women as "b**thes" and "h*es"). EEOC decides to give out penalties. The team, led by a couple of whitey spokespeople "locks arms" as a brotherhood. White coach stupidly tweets support, risking his job doing so. Yeah... that sounds like a lynch party to me. Ridiculous.
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Spoken like a racist.

You think racism is an individualistic prejudice. It's not. It's an institutional method of inequity against a group of people.
You cannot deny that black men have been targeted and socially castigated by a society that is racist by culture.
The issue of immorality is something other. That is defined by the teachings you have accepted. We can both state that these guys did something we find morally wrong. But, because we hold a personal opinion, does that give us the right to enforce that morality on others? If you say yes, then make sure you enforce that morality on all humans.
 

MennoSota said:
Spoken like a racist.

You think racism is an individualistic prejudice. It's not. It's an institutional method of inequity against a group of people.
You cannot deny that black men have been targeted and socially castigated by a society that is racist by culture.
The issue of immorality is something other. That is defined by the teachings you have accepted. We can both state that these guys did something we find morally wrong. But, because we hold a personal opinion, does that give us the right to enforce that morality on others? If you say yes, then make sure you enforce that morality on all humans.[/QU

There it is... right on cue... the individual "racist" accusation. Thanks for telling me what I think. You cannot be white (I am) and participate in a discussion on race related issues without being called a racist. Not much of a "discussion," is it? You either agree, or you're racist. Love the open dialogue. Thanks.
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Crosby said:
MennoSota said:
Spoken like a racist.

You think racism is an individualistic prejudice. It's not. It's an institutional method of inequity against a group of people.
You cannot deny that black men have been targeted and socially castigated by a society that is racist by culture.
The issue of immorality is something other. That is defined by the teachings you have accepted. We can both state that these guys did something we find morally wrong. But, because we hold a personal opinion, does that give us the right to enforce that morality on others? If you say yes, then make sure you enforce that morality on all humans.[/QU

There it is... right on cue... the individual "racist" accusation. Thanks for telling me what I think. You cannot be white (I am) and participate in a discussion on race related issues without being called a racist. Not much of a "discussion," is it? You either agree, or you're racist. Love the open dialogue. Thanks.
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Talk to me when you wish to open your eyes.
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I'm not buying racism here. I think the agenda of the EOAA is obvious and we shouldn't take the focus off of the CF it is by looking for other reasons. It waters down the rightful outrage many have for the EOAA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

minny01 said:
Couldn't agree more. This topic has really put some strange bedfellows together. You have the far right and the far left teaming together, who already have the case closed with a conviction, against the middle ground who wants the facts to play out (consent?) and wait for due process to be determined fairly.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Look no further than the muslim community turning away from the republican party after 9/11 due to the middle eastern interventions and islamophobia. Meanwhile a religion that is uniquely backwards and anti-LGBT, anti-feminism was embraced by the progressives. A stranger partnership has probably never been seen.
 

MennoSota said:
I claim that the U of M has targeted black males at a much higher rate than other groups.
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Can you point to something that provides evidence of this? It may well be true, but claims like these ought to be proved with something other than an assertion.
 

justthefacts said:
Can you point to something that provides evidence of this? It may well be true, but claims like these ought to be proved with something other than an assertion.
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He's several pages into this. He obviously can't. Time to Judy ignore that line of conversation.
 

justthefacts said:
Can you point to something that provides evidence of this? It may well be true, but claims like these ought to be proved with something other than an assertion.
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The report we have accuses 10 black males. Do you see any other persons being accused?

I have asked others to prove I am wrong and not one person can show where similar judgment falls upon white students at the U. Show me reports of white women and white men being expelled or suspended at the U.
 

MennoSota said:
The report we have accuses 10 black males. Do you see any other persons being accused?

I have asked others to prove I am wrong and not one person can show where similar judgment falls upon white students at the U. Show me reports of white women and white men being expelled or suspended at the U.[/QUOTE

Wow. You should get back on your meds. I hope you don't have a job requiring objective reasoning.
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beavergopher said:
MennoSota said:
The report we have accuses 10 black males. Do you see any other persons being accused?

I have asked others to prove I am wrong and not one person can show where similar judgment falls upon white students at the U. Show me reports of white women and white men being expelled or suspended at the U.[/QUOTE

Wow. You should get back on your meds. I hope you don't have a job requiring objective reasoning.
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LOL, attack me rather than the issue. I hope you realize such an argument shows you have no valid stance on this issue. Thanks for tossing in the white flag. I accept your admission of institutional racism at the U of M.
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