Some positives

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zambam said:
So everyone in the world may as well stop practicing anything they do once they hit 20 because clearly they won't improve? Gotchya. Guys never ever improve anything at all once they get passed 20.
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Oto isn't 20. He turns 22 on the 19th. He, Sampson, and Welch are all the same age.

zambam said:
Btw, Welch is not redshirtted. He played one year at UC-Davis, then one year JuCo, then one year here.
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Welch redshirted his first year at UC-Davis.
 


Plinnius, get ready to have your intelligence, allegiance and personal traits attacked. We can't have bad comments about our coach on here without repercussions. How dare you question this team's talent. Just wait till next year....again.
 

minngg said:
Plinnius, get ready to have your intelligence, allegiance and personal traits attacked. We can't have bad comments about our coach on here without repercussions. How dare you question this team's talent. Just wait till next year....again.
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Questioning the teams talent has nothing to do with Tubby and everything to do with knocking a kid who is playing his first season of big 10 ball an is working his tail off for this university. Hate Tubby, fine. But I find it inappropriate and rude to write off a 21/22 year old after his first season here. I think it is interesting that you hate Tubby so much you'd criticize kids who are just trying to work hard, play basketball, and get better to win games for this school. Especially a kid who has never gotten into trouble, never lacked effort, and been humble and loved being in the state and at this university.
 

jamalo said:
It needs to be via a decree from dOCTOR dON
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I see. Well, since I have heard nothing from dOCTER dON, I suppose I remain untitled...a mere commoner. And you, are you affiliated? A jesuit perhaps? Cheers!:)
 


Plinnius said:
How has he improved? Love shot 41.7% from three last year. He was also a pretty good shooter in college.
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Alright, here are some other examples for you:

Jason Kidd.
Rookie year in the NBA at age 21 shot 27% from 3. Shot 40% at age 24.
Rookie year in the NBA at age 21 shot 69% from the FT line. Shot his highest career percentage, 87% at age 38.
Rookie year in the NBA at age 21 averaged 7.7 assists per game. Posted his highest career total of 10.8 at the age of 26.

Michael Jordan
Rookie year in the NBA at age 22 shot 17% from 3. Shot 38% at age 27 and shot 43% at age 33.
Rookie year in the NBA at age 22 averaged 3.55 turnovers per game. Had his least amount of turnovers at age 34.

LeBron James
Rookie year in the NBA at age 20 shot 29% from 3. Shooting his highest percentage, 41% at age 27.

Paul George.
Same age (Currently) as Oto Osenieks.
Shot 30% from 3 last season, now shooting 41%

Roy Hibbert
As an NBA Sophomore, averaged 5.7 rebounds per game (25.1 Minutes) at age 24
This season, is averaging 9.6 rebounds per game (29.9 minutes) at age 26.

Derrick Rose
As an NBA Rookie shot 22% from 3 at age 21. Shot 33% from 3 at age 23.
Averaged 16.8 points as a rookie at 21 and 25 points at age 23.

Russell Westbrook
As an NBA Rookie shot 40% from the field at age 21. This season at age 23 is shooting 47%.
Averaged 15 points per game at age 21. Now at age 23 is averaging 24 points per game.

But you are right. No one ever improves past the age of 21. Everyone should get cut at that age. And no I am not comparing Oto to the above players, just picked out some guys and looked at their stats. The fact of the matter is, guys don't usually stop improving until about age 26 at the earliest. This all depends on how hard they work as well, but to act like who the player is at 21 is who they will be forever is a complete joke.
 

minngg said:
Plinnius, get ready to have your intelligence, allegiance and personal traits attacked. We can't have bad comments about our coach on here without repercussions. How dare you question this team's talent. Just wait till next year....again.
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I think you make comments like this more often than people "attack" others on here. It's all you have to say now.
 

Fugly, fugly game, which is pretty much what Sconny does to everyone. They have an unfortunate way of sapping the beauty and athleticism right out of the game of basketball, and even more unfortunately, they're able to have success by doing that, which means that won't be changing anytime soon. Anyhow, I felt like the biggest positive from the game was that the team came out and played very, very hard, which after the debacle against Indiana, could have gone either way in my mind. They did show pride though, clearly have not given up, fought hard and once again just couldn't finish.

And Dre Hollins of course. The kid was awesome, and offers much hope for the future.
 

scher215 said:
But you are right. No one ever improves past the age of 21. Everyone should get cut at that age. And no I am not comparing Oto to the above players, just picked out some guys and looked at their stats. The fact of the matter is, guys don't usually stop improving until about age 26 at the earliest. This all depends on how hard they work as well, but to act like who the player is at 21 is who they will be forever is a complete joke.
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Yeah, all those guys made slight improvements and peaked in their mid-20s. What's your point? When did I ever say that Oto wasn't going to get any better, that he has already hit his ceiling? I pointed out that Oto is the age of most college seniors and asked how much better could he possibly get, the implication being not much, that at his age he is already very close to his ceiling.
 



Plinnius said:
the implication being not much, that at his age he is already very close to his ceiling
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That's the entire point. Your assumption is wrong. Most athletes peak somewhere near age 27 or 28. This is well-versed and well-documented. I have no idea on God's green Earth why you think a 22-year-old is close to maxing out.
 

dpodoll68 said:
That's the entire point. Your assumption is wrong. Most athletes peak somewhere near age 27 or 28. This is well-versed and well-documented.
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I would http://basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=399dispute that.

I have no idea on God's green Earth why you think a 22-year-old is close to maxing out.
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Weren't Westbrook, Hoffarber, Damian Johnson, Dan Coleman etc. largely maxed out by the time they were 22? Isn't Julian Welch closed to being maxed out?
 






Plinnius said:
I would http://basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=399dispute that.
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Nice attempt at posting a link. Further, your link supports my statement. From the article:

"peak age could be anywhere from 25 through 27 by this method"

So, again, you are wrong. By the law of averages, it is safer to assume that Osenieks will continue to get better for at least the next 3-5 years, rather than assuming he will plateau or regress.

And, aside from the fact that your link actually refutes your claims, I will take the word of thousands and thousands of pages' worth of research by MDs and PhDs in kinesiology and related fields over a short article written by a basketball "expert" any day of the week. This is, again, notwithstanding that the article actually supports the research I have accurately cited.
 

Plinnius said:
Weren't Westbrook, Hoffarber, Damian Johnson, Dan Coleman etc. largely maxed out by the time they were 22? Isn't Julian Welch closed to being maxed out?
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Are you familiar with what a bell curve is? Even assuming you were right with this (which you aren't), you would understand this phenomenon if you knew what a bell curve is.
 

Many kids do not get better after a certain age. Many kids do not develop at all (i.e. Ralph Sampson)after age 20 or have limited growth curves. it all depends on maturity and skill level. There is no way to make a blanket statement either way on it. Most kids will improve until they are in lower to mid 20's but all have ceilings and improvement many times is marginal.
 

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