So we might miss out on the "big three" so what...

[Jessica Alba Fan Club]

I don't get the hysteria around the possibility of losing out on Jones, Vaughn and Reid. Sure, it will be unbelievable to land any of these kids, historical if we land all three but let's be real...it's not going to happen. Jones is as good as gone. Vaughn and Reid are better hopes and more realistic. But if we don't land any...big deal. It's not the end of the program.

Look how well it worked out the last time we recruited two of the biggest names in the state? One was afraid of airplanes and the other was a professional dunker. Did it enrich our program at all. Not really.

It won't be the last time Minnesota develops high caliber talent our Youth, High School and AAU programs are stronger than ever and always compete at a high level nationally. More Jones, Vaughns and Reids are coming down the pipe if we swing and miss this season. Minnesota is and will be solid for years to come, just ask the Wisconsin recruiters.

I'd rather hire a coach who can continue to build a respectable and attractive program where our local recruits -- and national -- would be excited to commit and play for, than just grab a sexy hire who "might" interest the current big three and then maybe flame out within a couple years. If Norwood hires an unknown assistant from Tech College State, then let's give him a chance and support, because at one time Shaka and even Coach K were unknown assistants.

 

[lugnard]

Thank you.

 

[goldengophers]

You don't hire assistants to the B1G, assistants become head coaches at mid majors and then become head coaches. This is the best league in college basketball, hiring an unproven assistant is potentially Brewster disasterous. Not saying it can't work but you are talking at minimum a long leadtime and at worst a burning down of the program. You hit the point where Fran, Tim and Bo devide and conquer Minnesota.

 

[lugnard]

You don't hire assistants to the B1G, assistants become head coaches at mid majors and then become head coaches. This is the best league in college basketball, hiring an unproven assistant is potentially Brewster disasterous. Not saying it can't work but you are talking at minimum a long leadtime and at worst a burning down of the program.

Pretty much - even coach K did a short but very successful stint at West Point after being an assistant for Knight before getting the nod at Duke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Krzyzewski

If there is a really successful modern coach who went from assistant to HC somewhere else I am not sure who that would be. I bet they are out there - just don't know who.

 

[MinneStoa]

I'd rather hire a coach who can continue to build a respectable and attractive program where our local recruits -- and national -- would be excited to commit and play for, than just grab a sexy hire who "might" interest the current big three and then maybe flame out within a couple years. If Norwood hires an unknown assistant from Tech College State, then let's give him a chance and support, because at one time Shaka and even Coach K were unknown assistants.

I don't know why the two have to be mutually exclusive. Who says we can't get a coach that will build upon what we have, while also being attractive to Tyus, Rashad, and Reid? I firmly believe that Flip could have done that, but I understand that many other people don't feel the same way.

But I do think it'd be a very good head start if we were able to pick up a couple high-level recruits right away. Like I said in another thread, success breeds success. There's no easier way to build a winning program than to get good recruits and build a solid team around them.

I don't think you'll find anyone who thinks that, even if we get all three of these kids, that we'll become a blue-blood program. That's why nobody here wants to hire the basketball equivalent of Tim Brewster. EVERYONE here knows that there's more to the game than recruiting (ask Calipari).

 

[goldengophers]

I don't know why the two have to be mutually exclusive. Who says we can't get a coach that will build upon what we have, while also being attractive to Tyus, Rashad, and Reid? I firmly believe that Flip could have done that, but I understand that many other people don't feel the same way.

But I do think it'd be a very good head start if we were able to pick up a couple high-level recruits right away. Like I said in another thread, success breeds success. There's no easier way to build a winning program than to get good recruits and build a solid team around them.

I don't think you'll find anyone who thinks that, even if we get all three of these kids, that we'll become a blue-blood program. That's why nobody here wants to hire the basketball equivalent of Tim Brewster. EVERYONE here knows that there's more to the game than recruiting (ask Calipari).

You can't point to success as a headcoach which is fundamental, especially with the coaching talent in the B1G. With an assistant hire the leadtime could be far too long, to the point where you get so far behind.

 

[Go4]

the program will not shut down if we lose the big 3. but perception is reality and if the best in-state kids don't want to attend here, it will absolutely have a negative impact on the way the general fan, media and other instate recruits view the program. not to mention it creates pipeplines for future kids to leave the state. part of the reason thorson has encouraged reid to look at michigan state is because alan anderson had such a great experience there, and so on. in a state like minnesota with as the only d1 school in state, instate recruiting is more important than most schools.

 

[Jessica Alba Fan Club]

You don't hire assistants to the B1G, assistants become head coaches at mid majors and then become head coaches.

True. True. I was also trying to conclude that in my thesis but got distracted by some Cool Ranch Doritos Locos while I was typing.
Basically, my point was that Norwood has a pretty good track record finding hidden gems. Let's not hire a coach just to impress the big three. I'd rather have a longstanding strong program and coach.

Also there are more than three good D1 basketball players in Minnesota. The Gophers have an excellent history of overlooking or just ignoring our local gems. Jordan Taylor? I'm sure one of the other Gopher Holers can produce a nice lengthy list of this.

 

[Plinnius]

EVERYONE here knows that there's more to the game than recruiting (ask Calipari).

Ask him what?

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

I don't get the hysteria around the possibility of losing out on Jones, Vaughn and Reid. Sure, it will be unbelievable to land any of these kids, historical if we land all three but let's be real...it's not going to happen. Jones is as good as gone. Vaughn and Reid are better hopes and more realistic. But if we don't land any...big deal. It's not the end of the program.

Look how well it worked out the last time we recruited two of the biggest names in the state? One was afraid of airplanes and the other was a professional dunker. Did it enrich our program at all. Not really.

It won't be the last time Minnesota develops high caliber talent our Youth, High School and AAU programs are stronger than ever and always compete at a high level nationally. More Jones, Vaughns and Reids are coming down the pipe if we swing and miss this season. Minnesota is and will be solid for years to come, just ask the Wisconsin recruiters.

I'd rather hire a coach who can continue to build a respectable and attractive program where our local recruits -- and national -- would be excited to commit and play for, than just grab a sexy hire who "might" interest the current big three and then maybe flame out within a couple years. If Norwood hires an unknown assistant from Tech College State, then let's give him a chance and support, because at one time Shaka and even Coach K were unknown assistants.

You are FALSELY assuming that Flip supporters see his only positive being getting the Big 3 recruits to stick around.


That's not true. Flip supporters see a lot more positives than just that.

We think he would be a great coach. Great coaches win games. Winning games helps recruiting.

We think he would bring lots of excitement to Gopher bb. Excited fans and big money donors, spend money on tickets, donations to Practice Facilities, etc..

We think he would bring in the top local talent, starting with the Big 3, and getting a big recruiting class like that, usually leads to making it easier to recruit in the future, ESPECIALLY the top local talent.



We see losing out on Flip and going with some Assistant or semi successful mid major guy as setting us back 3-4 years, AT LEAST.


So yeah, NO BIG DEAL, 3-4 years is nothing.

3-4 years without a Practice Facility.

3-4 years without bringing in the top local talent and seeing them go off to play for our future opponents in the conf or in the ooc or in the big dance.

3-4 years of struggling and waiting for this guy to build up some momentum.

1-2 years of not having a clue whether the guy will have ANY success at all.

1-3 years for Nebraska to establish itself as a regular above us in the standings.

1-3 years for Iowa to establish itself as a regular above us in the standings.

1-3 years for ISU, Iowa, Wisconsin AND EVEN NDSU AND SDSU MAYBE to steal our local talent away from us because all of those programs are far better programs than we are.

Etc, etc, etc..

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

the program will not shut down if we lose the big 3. but perception is reality and if the best in-state kids don't want to attend here, it will absolutely have a negative impact on the way the general fan, media and other instate recruits view the program. not to mention it creates pipeplines for future kids to leave the state. part of the reason thorson has encouraged reid to look at michigan state is because alan anderson had such a great experience there, and so on. in a state like minnesota with as the only d1 school in state, instate recruiting is more important than most schools.

Good points!

 

[From the Barn]

Baylor and Texas always get good recruiting classes and win championships. Indiana too. UCLA too.

 

[howieramone]

I don't get the hysteria around the possibility of losing out on Jones, Vaughn and Reid. Sure, it will be unbelievable to land any of these kids, historical if we land all three but let's be real...it's not going to happen. Jones is as good as gone. Vaughn and Reid are better hopes and more realistic. But if we don't land any...big deal. It's not the end of the program.

Look how well it worked out the last time we recruited two of the biggest names in the state? One was afraid of airplanes and the other was a professional dunker. Did it enrich our program at all. Not really.

It won't be the last time Minnesota develops high caliber talent our Youth, High School and AAU programs are stronger than ever and always compete at a high level nationally. More Jones, Vaughns and Reids are coming down the pipe if we swing and miss this season. Minnesota is and will be solid for years to come, just ask the Wisconsin recruiters.

I'd rather hire a coach who can continue to build a respectable and attractive program where our local recruits -- and national -- would be excited to commit and play for, than just grab a sexy hire who "might" interest the current big three and then maybe flame out within a couple years. If Norwood hires an unknown assistant from Tech College State, then let's give him a chance and support, because at one time Shaka and even Coach K were unknown assistants.

+1

 

[lugnard]

True. True. I was also trying to conclude that in my thesis but got distracted by some Cool Ranch Doritos Locos while I was typing.
Basically, my point was that Norwood has a pretty good track record finding hidden gems. Let's not hire a coach just to impress the big three. I'd rather have a longstanding strong program and coach.

Also there are more than three good D1 basketball players in Minnesota. The Gophers have an excellent history or overlooking or just ignoring our local gems. Jordan Taylor? I'm sure one of the other Gopher Holers can produce a nice lengthy list of this.

But your thesis is still correct...

1. program will survive with or without big three
2. a good fundamentals coach would be better than a quick fix

If you apply for the AD job I will write a letter in your support.

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

I don't know why the two have to be mutually exclusive. Who says we can't get a coach that will build upon what we have, while also being attractive to Tyus, Rashad, and Reid? I firmly believe that Flip could have done that, but I understand that many other people don't feel the same way.

But I do think it'd be a very good head start if we were able to pick up a couple high-level recruits right away. Like I said in another thread, success breeds success. There's no easier way to build a winning program than to get good recruits and build a solid team around them.

I don't think you'll find anyone who thinks that, even if we get all three of these kids, that we'll become a blue-blood program. That's why nobody here wants to hire the basketball equivalent of Tim Brewster. EVERYONE here knows that there's more to the game than recruiting (ask Calipari).

Good points!!

 

[gopherbadgerman]

I don't get the hysteria around the possibility of losing out on Jones, Vaughn and Reid. Sure, it will be unbelievable to land any of these kids, historical if we land all three but let's be real...it's not going to happen. Jones is as good as gone. Vaughn and Reid are better hopes and more realistic. But if we don't land any...big deal. It's not the end of the program.

Look how well it worked out the last time we recruited two of the biggest names in the state? One was afraid of airplanes and the other was a professional dunker. Did it enrich our program at all. Not really.

It won't be the last time Minnesota develops high caliber talent our Youth, High School and AAU programs are stronger than ever and always compete at a high level nationally. More Jones, Vaughns and Reids are coming down the pipe if we swing and miss this season. Minnesota is and will be solid for years to come, just ask the Wisconsin recruiters.

I'd rather hire a coach who can continue to build a respectable and attractive program where our local recruits -- and national -- would be excited to commit and play for, than just grab a sexy hire who "might" interest the current big three and then maybe flame out within a couple years. If Norwood hires an unknown assistant from Tech College State, then let's give him a chance and support, because at one time Shaka and even Coach K were unknown assistants.

Reality check. Needed. When the school cant get one of its top 5 coaching targets you cant expect that to go over too well with top recruits.

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

But your thesis is still correct...

1. program will survive with or without big three
2. a good fundamentals coach would be better than a quick fix

If you apply for the AD job I will write a letter in your support.

You assume that hiring Flip would only be a quick fix?!

Sorry, he was VERY successful coaching college bb, VERY successful coaching CBA bb, and quite successful coaching NBA bb.


I might be wrong, but I would bet that he'd be a pretty good LONG TERM fix as well as a mega short term boost.

 

[MinneStoa]

Reality check. Needed. When the school cant get one of its top 5 coaching targets you cant expect that to go over too well with top recruits.

You're really falsely assuming that Teague & Co. have been shot down everywhere. For all we know, they could still have their #1 coach locked in. We, as laymen, know absolutely NOTHING in regard to what's going on in this search. We can speculate all we want, and rely on tweets from "insiders", but that means absolutely nothing.

 

[Jessica Alba Fan Club]

You are FALSELY assuming that Flip supporters see his only positive being getting the Big 3 recruits to stick around.

You are falsely assuming I was talking about Flip and his supporters. I wasn't. I love Flip. I think it would have been great to get him, but i'm not going to lose all hope and go on an angst rage and burn down the barn because we didn't get him.

Give the AD some time.

Damn, it's 11:15 time to go hit the club and bore some girls about college basketball coaching searches. Maybe Rayno or Babu will be in the house? Sup cupcake. Ha. Wish me luck. Have a good night yall.

 

[lugnard]

You are falsely assuming I was talking about Flip and his supporters. I wasn't. I love Flip. I think it would have been great to get him, but i'm not going to lose all hope and go on an angst rage and burn down the barn because we didn't get him.

Give the AD some time.

Damn, it's 11:15 time to go hit the club and bore some girls about college basketball coaching searches. Maybe Rayno or Babu will be in the house? Sup cupcake. Ha. Wish me luck. Have a good night yall.

nail'em

 

[MinneStoa]

I think it would have been great to get him, but i'm not going to lose all hope and go on an angst rage and burn down the barn because we didn't get him.

I don't think there are many people who were so pro-Flip that they are losing all hope now that he's apparently off the table.

But I'm rooting for you to get your D wet. Godspeed

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

You are falsely assuming I was talking about Flip and his supporters. I wasn't. I love Flip. I think it would have been great to get him, but i'm not going to lose all hope and go on an angst rage and burn down the barn because we didn't get him.

Give the AD some time.

Damn, it's 11:15 time to go hit the club and bore some girls about college basketball coaching searches. Maybe Rayno or Babu will be in the house? Sup cupcake. Ha. Wish me luck. Have a good night yall.

You got me, I did make that assumption, sorry. Have fun.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

You're really falsely assuming that Teague & Co. have been shot down everywhere. For all we know, they could still have their #1 coach locked in. We, as laymen, know absolutely NOTHING in regard to what's going on in this search. We can speculate all we want, and rely on tweets from "insiders", but that means absolutely nothing.

Fair enough. So do you think Smart at Flip were targets and were shot down? I do agree it is possible they that have someone in mind, also I believe it is very possible to spin whomever they hire as their #1 target, regardless of the truth.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

I read this as, "so we might miss out on having our best team in school history, so what..."

 

[MinneStoa]

Fair enough. So do you think Smart at Flip were targets and were shot down? I do agree it is possible they that have someone in mind, also I believe it is very possible to spin whomever they hire as their #1 target, regardless of the truth.

I think it's very likely that Smart was their #1, and that Flip was considered a contingency pick that was assumed to be locked in. And I completely agree that whoever they choose, it is entirely possible that they will spin it such that it seems like they were among those at the top of the list.

I just don't like jumping to conclusions about what's going on. Basically all of the information on this board is based of conjecture and hearsay from various reporters. It's not something I like to put a whole lot of stock into.

 

[lugnard]

I read this as, "so we might miss out on having our best team in school history, so what?"

More like "great recruits come every year somewhere - this year in our state - we have no better chance at them than if they were living in North Carolina". And we won't until a realistic shot at kids like this until we have a solid program and facilities. Get that and great recruits will want to come here from everywhere.

Focus on the root cause - a solid competitive program - and not the coaching personalities or this specific crop of kids.

 

[mcal24]

I don't get the hysteria around the possibility of losing out on Jones, Vaughn and Reid. Sure, it will be unbelievable to land any of these kids, historical if we land all three but let's be real...it's not going to happen. Jones is as good as gone. Vaughn and Reid are better hopes and more realistic. But if we don't land any...big deal. It's not the end of the program.

Look how well it worked out the last time we recruited two of the biggest names in the state? One was afraid of airplanes and the other was a professional dunker. Did it enrich our program at all. Not really.

It won't be the last time Minnesota develops high caliber talent our Youth, High School and AAU programs are stronger than ever and always compete at a high level nationally. More Jones, Vaughns and Reids are coming down the pipe if we swing and miss this season. Minnesota is and will be solid for years to come, just ask the Wisconsin recruiters.

I'd rather hire a coach who can continue to build a respectable and attractive program where our local recruits -- and national -- would be excited to commit and play for, than just grab a sexy hire who "might" interest the current big three and then maybe flame out within a couple years. If Norwood hires an unknown assistant from Tech College State, then let's give him a chance and support, because at one time Shaka and even Coach K were unknown assistants.

Did you talk to Jones to learn he's "as good as gone?" If there's one thing I learned from this whole coaching search so far, its don't believe what others say unless they have something to back them up. Who says Jones isn't leaning towards the U of M right now? He could stay close to his family and support the hometown school that he grew up watching. Just because you would choose to go to the bigger, more established basketball school doesn't mean Jones or any of the other recruits see it the same way.

 

[MinneStoa]

More like "great recruits come every year somewhere - this year in our state - we have no better chance at them than if they were living in North Carolina".

What? Year in and year out, out of every top-100 recruit that doesn't pick a blue-blood program the VAST majority of them pick local schools. Just look at the 2013 class. Jarrell Martin, from Louisiana, picking LSU. Bobby Portis, from Arkansas, picking Arkansas. Austin Nichols, from Tennessee, picking Memphis. Jabari Bird, from California, picking Cal. I could go on for quite a while.

I don't understand how you could downplay the importance of locality in where a recruit chooses to play.

 

[howeda7]

Minnesota has a once-in-50 years recruiting class. Who cares if land any of them? Our AD is a genius who managed to figure out that hiring an assistant off a staff that just won back-to-back national championships might be a good idea. And he started a conference for coaches to network. No one had ever thought of it before. Let's not worry about whether we land any of these kids. What matters is our AD is clearly a basketball genius. OK. Hope you're right. I'll do my best not to puke when we hire Rashon Burno or Anthony Evans next week.

 

[goldengophers]

Minnesota has a once-in-50 years recruiting class. Who cares if land any of them? Our AD is a genius who managed to figure out that hiring an assistant off a staff that just won back-to-back national championships might be a good idea. And he started a conference for coaches to network. No one had ever thought of it before. Let's not worry about whether we land any of these kids. What matters is our AD is clearly a basketball genius. OK. Hope you're right. I'll do my best not to puke when we hire Rashon Burno or Anthony Evans next week.

I know you're being sarcastic but Grant and Smart were hired as assistants to the CAA. They weren't competing against Izzo, Mata, Beilein, Ryan, Painter, and Crean. This is not to mention a low end which now features some of the best former mid major headcoaches in Miles, McCaffery, and Groce.