So, let the debate begin. Better season, Iowa or Minnesota?

Who had the better season

  • Iowa Hawkeyes

    Votes: 15 17.2%

  • Minnesota Golden Gophers

    Votes: 72 82.8%
  • Total voters
    87
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I really wanted the U to make the NCAA, but the NIT championship may have been the best outcome for the team. Everyone needs to take into consideration that we have new young coach that is learning the finer points of coaching on the job. For Pitino to gain the tournament experience in a "more forgiving" tourney is tremendous. Just look at how he coached this team in the NIT. He has his best outside shooter go ice cold, he losses his starting center and has to play Otto and Buggs at center against one if the tallest teams in the country, he learns the value of fouling with a 3pt lead at the end if the game, he got the players to out defense one of the top defensive teams in the country in the championship game, he got all that he could out of this team. That does not happen if they had a play in game in the NCAA. It was a tremendous year for the coach and the future of the program. Of course we will expect more in the future, but it was a great year for what we had.
 

This is pretty simple to me. Which group of fans is happier with their season? Iowa fans were disgusted at how their season ended, and feel let down by the season. Gophers' fans were mostly delighted with how the season ended, and will look back fondly on it. Minnesota's season was more of a success, in my mind, and I don't think it's particularly close.
 

Because pre-season expectations had Iowa around 4th and a top 20 team and minnesota 9th or 20th, I say Minnesota.
 

How is this even a real question? The goal of every team is to make the NCAA tournament. One team did, one didn't.
 

Coaches have gotten fired for just making the NCAA tournament. Believe me at Duke, Kansas, UNC, just making the tourney doesnt satisfy anyone. It is all relative to what a team has, what it's potential is, the experience of the team, etc.
 


John Galt said:
How is this even a real question? The goal of every team is to make the NCAA tournament. One team did, one didn't.
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You are correct Galt. However- I will offer one qualifier. Joe is potential class valedictorian and a 145 IQ and gets a B in history. Johnny is the class flunky can't fog a mirror and normally does D to F work. The teacher motivates him and he gets a B-. Joe has the better grade but Johnny overachieved and in a sense had the better quarter. So I see both sides here.

The NCAAs is always better for me. But I LOVE IT that we won the NITs. Lots to be positive about.
 

John Galt said:
How is this even a real question? The goal of every team is to make the NCAA tournament. One team did, one didn't.
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Good point, John Galt. The goal of every team is to win the National Championship, and their conference. Neither team succeeded in that, thus, both are miserable failures. Everyone should consider suicide to cleanse themselves from the shame.

(Seriously, though. I wonder if people who make statements like this actually watch sports. If the Wolves had made the playoffs this year and won one series, I'd have been overjoyed. If Gophers hockey loses in the Frozen Four, I'll be disappointed. What is success for Wigan Athletic is not success for Manchester City. It's a matter of expectations. Gopher fans are happy with how their season went. Iowa fans are sad. The former were more of a success than the latter.)
 

Playing 5 more games is a big win for any program. Minnesota.
 

Loaded question.

Compared to probably 90% of the NCAA opening game losers, I would not say our season was better. But compared to Iowa, absolutely. That team arguably shouldn't have been in the tourney to begin with...remember, they didn't "qualify," they were picked subjectively, and we had a better RPI than them even at that time. Now it's not even close. And you're comparing a team that finished by losing 7 of its last 8, including the play-in games in *both* its post-season tourneys (its only win in that time being at home vs last place Purdue) to a team that won 7 of 8 and just beat two teams very similar to or better than Iowa.
 



I say the answer depends on who learns more from their experiences.

Does Iowa learn from being in the NCAA?

Did the the Gophers?

Will we be better next year for it?

When framed that way, I think the Gophers staff at least got to practice coaching in a tournament environment. They are afforded the opportunity of experiencing dynamic situations, such as, do you commit a foul when down by 3 with less than 10 seconds? How do you protect a lead after a free throw attempt in the waning second of a game?

Coaches need to get to work and review these situations and write the answers down; however, creating more situations and tournament experience for your team is probably more valuable.
 

Well, as a Minnesota resident and an Iowa alum and a fan of both teams, I think I am qualified to speak to this question.

Perhaps one of the most important, yet seemingly undervalued, factors for judging how well a team does during a season is how its fan base feels about the team when the season is complete. By that standard, the answer is clear: Minnesota had a better season.

I read the comments of both teams' fan sites and I talk to a number of my long-time Iowa fan friends regularly. You would be hard pressed to find many Iowa fans expressing the kinds of positive feelings about their team that Gopher fans are expressing today. They had a very good run last year in the NIT, too, but they got stomped in the title game. Now I realize what a big difference winning that tournament makes in the hearts and minds of its fans.

Iowa fans got less than they expected out of the season. Minnesota fans got more than they expected out of the season. Minnesota was one of last teams playing and one of only four teams to end the post-season with a win. I'll take this kind of season any day over Iowa's season.
 

I would say the Gophers. I would rather take a seas ending victory in the NIT and the momentum then losing consistently at the end of a season like Iowa did. I know its NCAA vs NIT but to win a championship sure catipults the momentum and confidence in kids for the future. This tournament was no cupcake tournament either. Florida St and SMU were good wins. 2 teams that easily could have gotten a W or 2 in the big tournament based on who they played. Regardless of which tournament, its great to get a championship banner hanging....even if it is NIT. Future years look bright and hopefully one day we can have NCAA banners hanging as well. Great Job!
 

jmag21 said:
Good point, John Galt. The goal of every team is to win the National Championship, and their conference. Neither team succeeded in that, thus, both are miserable failures. Everyone should consider suicide to cleanse themselves from the shame.

(Seriously, though. I wonder if people who make statements like this actually watch sports. If the Wolves had made the playoffs this year and won one series, I'd have been overjoyed. If Gophers hockey loses in the Frozen Four, I'll be disappointed. What is success for Wigan Athletic is not success for Manchester City. It's a matter of expectations. Gopher fans are happy with how their season went. Iowa fans are sad. The former were more of a success than the latter.)
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The question that was asked in the thread was simple: Who had the better season, Iowa or Minnesota. The answer is Iowa.

If you want to debate who should feel better about the season, who finished stronger, who did a better job of meeting expectations, or who should be more excited about next year, carry on, since all of those questions are open for discussion.
 



atsgopher said:
I say the answer depends on who learns more from their experiences.

Does Iowa learn from being in the NCAA?

Did the the Gophers?

Will we be better next year for it?
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That's a good way to look at it. The bigger question is how will both teams respond to it next season, the Gophers from their (NIT) success, Iowa from their late-season meltdown and (NCAA) failure? It's plausible both will benefit from this season's experiences or it could go the other way, too (be in the exact same position a year from now). Never know how/if the end of a season will translate to the following season.

Both teams certainly have enough returning players to believe they can improve upon their 2013-14 seasons.
 

Hawkeyes had a better season. We had a better ending. We have a better two year run (as noted above). We move into next year with more momentum. I will take our season and be satisfied for now even though we want to be in the NCAA.

I'm not sure the NIT win gives us any momentum on the recruiting front by itself. Being in the NCAA would have, even if we would have lost before getting to the real tournament. The play in loss is less significant than the Hawkeyes' implosion at the end of the year, in my opinion. If I were a Hawkeye fan, I would be let down by the general upward trajectory of the last two years coming crashing down in the back nine of the B1G season. Sort of where we've been a few times over the years. I'm not sure what Fran has coming in for recruits to fill in for Marble and others. That would be a major factor in momentum for them.
 

Holy Man said:
Hawkeyes had a better season. We had a better ending. We have a better two year run (as noted above). We move into next year with more momentum. I will take our season and be satisfied for now even though we want to be in the NCAA.

I'm not sure the NIT win gives us any momentum on the recruiting front by itself. Being in the NCAA would have, even if we would have lost before getting to the real tournament. The play in loss is less significant than the Hawkeyes' implosion at the end of the year, in my opinion. If I were a Hawkeye fan, I would be let down by the general upward trajectory of the last two years coming crashing down in the back nine of the B1G season. Sort of where we've been a few times over the years. I'm not sure what Fran has coming in for recruits to fill in for Marble and others. That would be a major factor in momentum for them.
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Yes, the key for Iowa will be replacing Marble. They'll miss Basabe some, too, but McCabe isn't really much of a loss.

It's funny how it seems most every coach has a blind spot for certain players. For McCaffery it was playing McCabe so much at the end of the season, for Pitino it was sticking with Malik long after he lost his shooting stroke, and going back to Tubby I thought he had a serious blind spot for Ralph III. Not that those guys didn't do some good things, just that it seemed to me quite often they received more PT than was warranted.
 

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(Moved post to more appropriate thread.)
 

John Galt said:
The question that was asked in the thread was simple: Who had the better season, Iowa or Minnesota. The answer is Iowa.
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You're right. The answer is very simple, if one is simple minded that is, but I would expect nothing less from someone who names himself after Ayn Rand's most famous character.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Yes, the key for Iowa will be replacing Marble. They'll miss Basabe some, too, but McCabe isn't really much of a loss.
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McCabe had a fairly poor year, but he was an important rotation player for them over his four years. The thing about those three players is that all three of them played significant minutes for McCafferey over their entire four years. Iowa's strength was its depth and it's unlikely that newcomers are going to be able to step in and give the total contributions of those three departures.
 

NCAA tourney appearances are overrated. There is only one place that matters or only one place that should matter anyways. If you are a one and done or even a 2 and done or anything less then champion them you didn't win anything. I would also like to see conference tourney and regular season titles have more value then elite 8 and final 4 appearances as well.
 

Shutting down the conversation at which tournament each team made is ridiculous. Teams are selected for the tournament by a committee and by all accounts their resumes were basically equivalent.

Minnesota is the clear answer. Very few teams end their season on a winning note. This is especially encouraging since expectations for this season were very low. I would have considered the Gophers an NIT bubble team to start the season and most pre-season prognosticators agreed.

Iowa basically mirrored our season from last year. They were final four hopefuls at mid-season and crashed and burned down the stretch. Major letdown for the Hawkeye fans.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I'll take this year over last year, too. This year's team played with passion, belief and pride whereas last year's squad looked utterly lost by the end. An NCAA tourney qualification and win over an equally lost UCLA team didn't erase the disappointment potential unrealized.
 

die hard gopher said:
NCAA tourney appearances are overrated. There is only one place that matters or only one place that should matter anyways. If you are a one and done or even a 2 and done or anything less then champion them you didn't win anything. I would also like to see conference tourney and regular season titles have more value then elite 8 and final 4 appearances as well.
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I agree with your first statement. I wouldn't go as far as the rest.
 

die hard gopher said:
NCAA tourney appearances are overrated.
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Do you think it's a good thing when Minnesota is playing on ESPN and the first graphic they show is highlighting we have the 3rd most NIT appearances in the country?
 

So they call it a "play-in" game, which implies you need to play and win to get into the tourney, but they count it as the first round of the tourney. Leave it to the NCAA to cloud the waters. Besides, it doesn't matter who had the better season, they are still Iowa.
 

Pitino summed it up before the game: Obviously the NCAA Tourney is the main goal but given the fact that only a few teams (and seniors) can end the season (and collegiate careers) with a win; it sends the seniors off on a great note and it serves as a springboard into the next season. There is no doubt that an NIT championship is more valuable than a play-in round loss. The Gophers had a few prime time ESPN games because of the NIT. Also, it created an image of a strong Pitino family; a hall-of-fame coach sitting front row -- appearing to "coach" at times. Furthermore, an NIT run allows a program to expand their marketing efforts and outreach: To any recruit who viewed the post game speech by Pitino after the Fl State win would pick up on the passion he has, and with his dad in the background, you can't tell me that a one-and-done NCAA tourney would've provided such a of positive vibe with the fan base and recruits. The impression the Pitino family makes on this program is significant and anytime an 18-year-old sees this on national TV is a huge advantage. In the end, the NCAA committee chose Iowa over the Gophers. However, when looking at the big picture, the Gophers will benefit from last night more than a 13 point overtime loss in a play in game that took place in Dayton, Ohio. Lastly, the last 4 teams to win the NIT were all in the dance this year (Dayton, Wichita State, Stanford and Baylor). What does this group have in common? They all made the sweet 16 within 3 years of winning the NIT. Looking forward to 2014-15!
 

mcwhirter said:
So they call it a "play-in" game, which implies you need to play and win to get into the tourney, but they count it as the first round of the tourney. Leave it to the NCAA to cloud the waters. Besides, it doesn't matter who had the better season, they are still Iowa.
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I don't think the NCAA calls it the "play-in" game, they call it the "First Four", I believe, or first round. I'm guessing they intentionally avoid that type of language that would indicate it isn't part of the tournament.
 

savagerube said:
Pitino summed it up before the game: Obviously the NCAA Tourney is the main goal but given the fact that only a few teams (and seniors) can end the season (and collegiate careers) with a win; it sends the seniors off on a great note and it serves as a springboard into the next season. There is no doubt that an NIT championship is more valuable than a play-in round loss. The Gophers had a few prime time ESPN games because of the NIT. Also, it created an image of a strong Pitino family; a hall-of-fame coach sitting front row -- appearing to "coach" at times. Furthermore, an NIT run allows a program to expand their marketing efforts and outreach: To any recruit who viewed the post game speech by Pitino after the Fl State win would pick up on the passion he has, and with his dad in the background, you can't tell me that a one-and-done NCAA tourney would've provided such a of positive vibe with the fan base and recruits. The impression the Pitino family makes on this program is significant and anytime an 18-year-old sees this on national TV is a huge advantage. In the end, the NCAA committee chose Iowa over the Gophers. However, when looking at the big picture, the Gophers will benefit from last night more than a 13 point overtime loss in a play in game that took place in Dayton, Ohio. Lastly, the last 4 teams to win the NIT were all in the dance this year (Dayton, Wichita State, Stanford and Baylor). What does this group have in common? They all made the sweet 16 within 3 years of winning the NIT. Looking forward to 2014-15!
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I would be more confident we could continue that pattern if we had more contributions from guys like Buggs and McNeil than we got in the NIT. I'm hoping they get better and are more prepared to make contributions next year, but there was nothing in the last two weeks that screamed at me, "Yes, these guys are can't misses as we move forward." Morris on BTN last night cited the great improvements of EE and Mo as reasons for hope for the Gophers and planted the seed that we should expect great improvement from all of the guys next year. My expectations are not as high as Shon's. I hope but don't expect.
 


mcwhirter said:
So they call it a "play-in" game, which implies you need to play and win to get into the tourney, but they count it as the first round of the tourney.
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The NCAA does not call the First Four "play-in" games for obvious reasons. They call it the first round in order to avoid the stigma that goes with "play-in". Not that they're fooling anybody with the phrasing, but nevertheless every year since 2011 when the field expanded to 68 teams at least one of the "First Four" at-large teams has advanced at least to the Round of 32. Whether we like it or not, those Tuesday/Wednesday games are part of the tournament, and several teams most notably VCU, La Salle, and Tennessee, would certainly agree.
 

BarnBoy said:
Wait, what?
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Yes, that is quite possible, believe me. Here are the contributing factors:

1) One is old enough to have outgrown some of the emotional attachments of youthful rivalries;
2) One moves around enough to understand that various localities can give you something positive and enjoyable if you are open to them.
 

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