So David Ortiz, admitted steroid user

[kg21]

Gets into the Hall of Fame on his first try.

Bonds and Clemens have been denied 10 times.

It makes perfect sense!

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Ridiculous.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Ridiculous.

He repented and is lovable.

 

[Ope3]

Gets into the Hall of Fame on his first try.

Bonds and Clemens have been denied 10 times.

It makes perfect sense!

Did Ortiz really admit it or was he just exposed in the first round of testing happened when it was supposed to be anonymous? I thought he's always vehemently denied that he took steroids, at least intentionally.

 

[forever a gopher]

He repented and is lovable.

I think this has a lot to do with it. Big Pappi is a likable guy. Bonds and Clemens are not.

 

[Oregon Gopher]

He never admitted and MLB came out later and said he never tested positive for anything on their list.

 

[kg21]

He never admitted and MLB came out later and said he never tested positive for anything on their list.

He was on the list, but then they took him off. Come on, man.

At age 40, he hit 40 homers, bombing many of them to the opposite field. It was all natural. LMAO

Should David Ortiz’s PED connections impact his Hall-of-Fame case?

David Ortiz seems bound to end up in the Hall-of-Fame. Should any alleged possible PED connections impact his ability to get in?

fansided.com

Ortiz did allegedly test positive for PED use in 2003, but it was never disclosed what exactly Ortiz actually tested positive for in that 2003 test. After it was reported that he allegedly tested positive, Ortiz apologized but defended his name, saying that the positive result was likely due to supplements and vitamins.


You are correct in that he never admitted it. It was supplements and vitamins. LOL

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

He never admitted and MLB came out later and said he never tested positive for anything on their list.

thanks for the correction and he seems like a good dude 2 - beloved in Boston and his speech after the Marathon Bombing was pitch perfect

 

[kg21]

thanks for the correction and he seems like a good dude 2 - beloved in Boston and his speech after the Marathon Bombing was pitch perfect

Ortiz apologized but defended his name, saying that the positive result was likely due to supplements and vitamins. LMAO

 

[Iceland12]

Ortiz apologized but defended his name, saying that the positive result was likely due to supplements and vitamins. LMAO

Yeah, that seemed a little much didn't it?

Thought that he tested positive in 2003, but in the random testing from then forward, he was clear? His numbers from then on were pretty steady. The irritating thing for me is that Clemens and Bonds always denied it despite all the evidence to the contrary. We seem to ignore the fact that steroid use, without a Doctor's prescription was illegal, not just against baseball's rules. Hell, Bonds let his supplier go to jail rather than admit what he did.

Always odd that the Clemens and Bonds defenders never mention Sosa. Sammy had 609 HRS, only guy to hit over 60 homers 3 times and hit 40 or more 7 times? Wonder why?

Only thing that really grinds me is when they ask members of the Big Red Machine about steroid guys. The team that ran on amphetamines. Yeah the Big Greenie Machine guys were experts on illegal drugs.

David Ortiz Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of David Ortiz. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

Sammy Sosa Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Sammy Sosa. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[Gophers1992]

Yeah, that seemed a little much didn't it?

Thought that he tested positive in 2003, but in the random testing from then forward, he was clear? His numbers from then on were pretty steady. The irritating thing for me is that Clemens and Bonds always denied it despite all the evidence to the contrary. We seem to ignore the fact that steroid use, without a Doctor's prescription was illegal, not just against baseball's rules. Hell, Bonds let his supplier go to jail rather than admit what he did.

Always odd that the Clemens and Bonds defenders never mention Sosa. Sammy had 609 HRS, only guy to hit over 60 homers 3 times and hit 40 or more 7 times? Wonder why?

Only thing that really grinds me is when they ask members of the Big Red Machine about steroid guys. The team that ran on amphetamines. Yeah the Big Greenie Machine guys were experts on illegal drugs.

David Ortiz Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of David Ortiz. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

Sammy Sosa Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Sammy Sosa. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

Sosa had nowhere near the career that Bonds and Clemens did. Sosa would be a borderline HOF case without the steroid BS, Bonds and Clemens would be no doubters.

 

[Iceland12]

Sosa had nowhere near the career that Bonds and Clemens did. Sosa would be a borderline HOF case without the steroid BS, Bonds and Clemens would be no doubters.

Without the steroids? You're right, but nowhere near the career? Hardly, but none of the "Put Barry and Roger in" guys look at his stats anyway.

Pre-steroids Clemons would have gotten in but Bonds? Please. He was a good player in Pittsburgh, but it wasn't until he got to SF and started talking to Canseco and McGwire and using like a pro wrestler that he became THEE Barry Bonds.

None of them belong in any Hall of Fame.

 

[forever a gopher]

Sosa had nowhere near the career that Bonds and Clemens did. Sosa would be a borderline HOF case without the steroid BS, Bonds and Clemens would be no doubters.

Hardly. Baseball is about numbers. Sosa has the 9th most HR's in MLB history. If he were believed to be clean, he'd be a first-ballot guy. He has 2,400 hits, 609 HR, a career .273 hitter with a .344 OBP, 234 SB.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sosasa01.shtml

Of the top 25 HR guys, the only non-HOF are known steroid users.

 

[Gophers_4life]

If I stick a needle in my arm, or take a pill, or rub a cream on my muscles ....

that now means I can make a stick of wood contact a tiny ball curving through the air at 95mph?

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Palmeiro. That guy was my favorite fail.

 

[Iceland12]

If I stick a needle in my arm, or take a pill, or rub a cream on my muscles ....

that now means I can make a stick of wood contact a tiny ball curving through the air at 95mph?

Good point. That means the ones breaking the law got zero benefit and the dramatic increase in numbers was just an illusion.

That means that it wasn't just the use of uppers and steroids that should keep them out of the Hall , but sheer stupidity.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Good point. That means the ones breaking the law got zero benefit and the dramatic increase in numbers was just an illusion.

That means that it wasn't just the use of uppers and steroids that should keep them out of the Hall , but sheer stupidity.

Does this mean that if the fences simply had been moved back, to account for the increased strength that the steroids provided (I guess??), then no one would care?

I still don't get it.

Taking steroids doesn't have anything to do with being able to hit a baseball well. That is a skill that has to be honed and practices over decades and takes extreme talent.

 

[Gophers1992]

Hardly. Baseball is about numbers. Sosa has the 9th most HR's in MLB history. If he were believed to be clean, he'd be a first-ballot guy. He has 2,400 hits, 609 HR, a career .273 hitter with a .344 OBP, 234 SB.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sosasa01.shtml

Of the top 25 HR guys, the only non-HOF are known steroid users.

View attachment 16694

Sosa had a career WAR of about 59. That would put him on the low end of the HOF if he got in. Again, borderline case.

 

[Gophers1992]

Without the steroids? You're right, but nowhere near the career? Hardly, but none of the "Put Barry and Roger in" guys look at his stats anyway.

Pre-steroids Clemons would have gotten in but Bonds? Please. He was a good player in Pittsburgh, but it wasn't until he got to SF and started talking to Canseco and McGwire and using like a pro wrestler that he became THEE Barry Bonds.

None of them belong in any Hall of Fame.

I'm saying if we ignore PEDs, and just looked at their numbers, Sosa is not on the same planet as Bonds and Clemens. And Bonds was much more than "a good player" in Pittsburgh. His last 4 years there he put up a minimum of 8 WAR. That's elite level.

 

[Gophers1992]

Without the steroids? You're right, but nowhere near the career? Hardly, but none of the "Put Barry and Roger in" guys look at his stats anyway.

Pre-steroids Clemons would have gotten in but Bonds? Please. He was a good player in Pittsburgh, but it wasn't until he got to SF and started talking to Canseco and McGwire and using like a pro wrestler that he became THEE Barry Bonds.

None of them belong in any Hall of Fame.

Are you cool with taking out Hank Aaron, Joe Morgan, and tons of other amphetamine users, or just guys who were juicing when it was legal?

 

[Spaulding!No!]

I thought the big boost was the body is stronger and heals quicker - increasing longevity ergo productivity.

 

[Iceland12]

Does this mean that if the fences simply had been moved back, to account for the increased strength that the steroids provided (I guess??), then no one would care?

I still don't get it.

Taking steroids doesn't have anything to do with being able to hit a baseball well. That is a skill that has to be honed and practices over decades and takes extreme talent.

You're right. If they didn't have the skills to hit a baseball in the first place, steroids or uppers wouldn't have helped much.

Though they were willing to break the law, not the rules of baseball, to get the steroids to use them and most, if not all, of them got better results for doing it.

If your argument is MLB players got zero benefit from using them, they disagreed.

Here's from an article about steroids from 2004 when baseball was just started testing for them. Fair warning, it's pretty long.

''Steroids make your hands faster in that they increase muscle in your forearms and pectorals and numerous muscle sets involved in hitting a baseball,'' said Dr. Charles Yesalis, professor of health and human development at Penn State. ''If you need less time to get around on the ball, you have more time to tell if it's a slider, knuckleball or curve. That makes complete sense.''

Despite warnings that steroids increase the rate of heart attacks, the amount of cholesterol in the body and the risk of sterility, the player takes an initial cycle, either ingesting the steroids orally or injecting them into his buttocks. Some scientists have established that steroids add muscle mass even if the user does not train, but the player is eager to maximize results, so he continues a fierce workout routine.

''Even those who don't train get stronger,'' Dr. Benjamin Z. Leder of Massachusetts General Hospital said. ''But I don't know of any world-class athlete who doesn't train, so it's always in combination.''..

The difference shows up in various ways. As the juiced player continues his off-season cycle, he is able to work out longer and more often. Trainers tell him that when muscles are stressed, they usually become fatigued and break down, a catabolic effect. Anabolic steroids override the catabolic effect and shorten the recovery time from workouts..

During 20 years of researching anabolic steroids, Pope has had countless athletes tell him they feel invincible when performing with steroids, providing a psychological edge on par with the physical advantage. The first-year user could very well be a decent career hitter, already possessing the skills necessary to play baseball, but he has observed in recent batting practice sessions that his fly balls are carrying 15 to 20 feet farther.."

BASEBALL; Taking a Swing With Steroids (Published 2004)

Steroid use in Major League Baseball, though difficult to assess, is controversial subject of debate as experts argue over what, exactly, drug use could do for hitters; photos (M)

www.nytimes.com

 

[Ope3]

Are you cool with taking out Hank Aaron, Joe Morgan, and tons of other amphetamine users, or just guys who were juicing when it was legal?

Throwing in Hank Aaron is really a false equivalency. He admitted he tried amphetamines briefly (I think just once) in the late 60s, not a habitual user. Short term impact, unlike steroids.

 

[Ope3]

Does this mean that if the fences simply had been moved back, to account for the increased strength that the steroids provided (I guess??), then no one would care?

I still don't get it.

Taking steroids doesn't have anything to do with being able to hit a baseball well. That is a skill that has to be honed and practices over decades and takes extreme talent.

They can make a AAA player a major leaguer.
They can make a fringe player into a starter.
They can make a starter into an All Star.
They can make an All Star into a Hall of Famer.
They can put an already Hall of Famer into some other stratosphere.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Palmeiro. That guy was my favorite fail.

The finger wiggle

 

[kg21]

If I stick a needle in my arm, or take a pill, or rub a cream on my muscles ....

that now means I can make a stick of wood contact a tiny ball curving through the air at 95mph?

Except for the ball that was going 330 feet and caught is now going 380 and landing in the stands.

And except for the fact the bat is a little quicker.

And except for the fact that steroids allow your body to recover quickly and stay strong for all 162.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

The 30 for 30 on Bonds is great and shows exactly when he chose to become Mr. Potato hea, it was the season of the chase with Sammy Nd Mac and on cared that he was winning his third MVP while becoming the first (I think) player to go for 400 steals and homers in a career and they weren’t testing for it yet - though everyone knew they were both juicing their nards off as a peak at their rookie cards clearly shows Incredible Hulk transformations.
he was wrong to do so and it feed his petulance; but he gave the people what they wanted. There are no virgins working the poles at a strip club - everyone from Selig to the fans holds culpability, in addition to the aforementioned players.

 

[kg21]

Palmeiro. That guy was my favorite fail.

I loved the Palmerio one, but Sosa is still my favorite.

Sosa spoke good English, but when questioned about performance enhancing drugs, he could barely speak English and needed an interpreter. He could barely understand the questions, much less answer them. It was a total act. LOL

 

[Wally]

Gets into the Hall of Fame on his first try.

Bonds and Clemens have been denied 10 times.

It makes perfect sense!

Let them all use steroids and I might consider watching baseball.

 

[kg21]

Bonds shoe size and hat size increased dramatically. I don't remember where I read that, but I think it was sports illustrated.