Sneak Preview of Smith/Pitino Comparison through 6 Seasons

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SelectionSunday

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After the current season is completed, we'll have exactly 6 years of data for both Tubby Smith and Richard Pitino. Here's where things stand right now using various criteria I consider important. Notice I don't include overall record (too much variance in non-conference scheduling), and I exclude postseason NIT results simply because wins/losses in the NIT have no bearing on receiving a NCAA bid.

I will update Richard's home/road/neutral, vs. Big Ten, NCAA qualifiers records, etc., once the Gophers' season is complete. Also note, Pitino's current 1-1 Big Ten record IS NOT included.

Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 29-53 (35.4%)
Pitino -- 20-45 (30.8%)

Home Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 16-20 (44.4%)
Pitino -- 10-16 (38.5%)

Road Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Pitino -- 6-20 (23.1%)
Smith -- 4-24 (14.3%)

Neutral-Site Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 9-9 (50%)
Pitino -- 4-9 (30.8%)

Combined Road/Neutral Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 13-33 (28.3%)
Pitino -- 10-29 (25.6%)

Regular Season Record vs. Big Ten Opponents
Smith -- 46-62 (42.6%)
Pitino -- 31-59 (34.4%)

Big Ten Tournament Record
Smith -- 7-6 (53.8%)
Pitino -- 3-5 (37.5%)

Semifinals or Better Big Ten Tournament Appearances
Smith (2) -- 2008 semifinals, 2010 championship game
Pitino (1) -- 2017 semifinals

NCAA Tournament Appearances/Record
Smith -- 3/1-3 (25%)
Pitino -- 1/0-1 (0%)
 

What I get from this is that it is extremely difficult to win at UMN. Minnesota is a middle to lower tier B1G University in basketball. Rarely does UMN climb out of that level.
This comparison is just depressing.
 

MennoSota said:
What I get from this is that it is extremely difficult to win at UMN. Minnesota is a middle to lower tier B1G University in basketball. Rarely does UMN climb out of that level.
This comparison is just depressing.
Click to expand...

That's not a valid conclusion from these limited data.
 

Bad Gopher said:
That's not a valid conclusion from these limited data.
Click to expand...
12 years of data is limited?
I think it is clear that Gopher Men's Basketball has been a lower tier/mid tier program for at least 12 years now.
 

That whole chart would look different had last year's team not been hit with the disaster of injuries and the Lynch suspension.

That said- this is a big year for Pitino to turn it around.
 


bga1 said:
That whole chart would look different had Mbakwe and Royce played their first year together as was intended.

That said- this is a big year for Pitino to turn it around.
Click to expand...

FIFY.

Go Gophers!!
 

I seem to remember that a huge criticism of Smith was that he never got above a 0.500 record in a big ten season. I understand why you chose those categories above but I find it important to remember that was a large part of the argument for not giving Smith another season.
 


BleedGopher said:
FIFY.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

Well there was that little issue with the laptop.....As to Mbakwe and Royce, Tubby was playing with fire on both and he could easily have had both playing or neither.

No doubt about it, that was unfortunate for Tubby as well. Tubby didn't get fired because he couldn't coach or recruit. He got fired because the future looked bleak as he appeared tired of his job. The trend line on Tubby's career was heading downward. Pitino has to show that he has things going the other way.

Pitino is the coach- that's who I am rooting for, not Tubby. I was thrilled when Tubby was hired and when he was fired. No BT record ever above 9-9 and never finished in the top 4 at 2+ million bucks a year.
 



MennoSota said:
12 years of data is limited?
I think it is clear that Gopher Men's Basketball has been a lower tier/mid tier program for at least 12 years now.
Click to expand...

...and has been a program for 114 years. C'mon, at least try to sound intelligent.
 

bga1 said:
The trend line on Tubby's career was heading downward.
Click to expand...

And yet, he took another school (his 5th) to the NCAA Tournament - a school that hadn't been there in 9 years at the time.
 

Bad Gopher said:
...and has been a program for 114 years. C'mon, at least try to sound intelligent.
Click to expand...
Do you think the program as a whole has been anything other than lower-tier/mid-tier?
We have what...one B1G championship and one vacated B1G championship in 114 years.
What does that tell you?
 

SelectionSunday said:
After the current season is completed, we'll have exactly 6 years of data for both Tubby Smith and Richard Pitino. Here's where things stand right now using various criteria I consider important. Notice I don't include overall record (too much variance in non-conference scheduling), and I exclude postseason NIT results simply because wins/losses in the NIT have no bearing on receiving a NCAA bid.

I will update Richard's home/road/neutral, vs. Big Ten, NCAA qualifiers records, etc., once the Gophers' season is complete. Also note, Pitino's current 1-1 Big Ten record IS NOT included.

Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 29-53 (35.4%)
Pitino -- 20-45 (30.8%)

Home Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 16-20 (44.4%)
Pitino -- 10-16 (38.5%)

Road Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Pitino -- 6-20 (23.1%)
Smith -- 4-24 (14.3%)

Neutral-Site Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 9-9 (50%)
Pitino -- 4-9 (30.8%)

Combined Road/Neutral Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 13-33 (28.3%)
Pitino -- 10-29 (25.6%)

Regular Season Record vs. Big Ten Opponents
Smith -- 46-62 (42.6%)
Pitino -- 31-59 (34.4%)

Big Ten Tournament Record
Smith -- 7-6 (53.8%)
Pitino -- 3-5 (37.5%)

Semifinals or Better Big Ten Tournament Appearances
Smith (2) -- 2008 semifinals, 2010 championship game
Pitino (1) -- 2017 semifinals

NCAA Tournament Appearances/Record
Smith -- 3/1-3 (25%)
Pitino -- 1/0-1 (0%)
Click to expand...

Does it make any difference that Pitino is in this seventh year as a head coach while Smith coached over three times that many games?
 



bga1 said:
That whole chart would look different had last year's team not been hit with the disaster of injuries and the Lynch suspension.

That said- this is a big year for Pitino to turn it around.
Click to expand...

Lol this thread is gonna be great.
 

NorthernVaGopher said:
Does it make any difference that Pitino is in this seventh year as a head coach while Smith coached over three times that many games?
Click to expand...


Why would it? Both are coaching at Minnesota.

Almost litterally any argument for Pitino being a better coach than tubby at this juncture at Minnesota is wrong.

As one of Pitinos biggest backers in years 1-5 I am sad that nothing of what I had hoped has come true.

That said, let’s go Pitino and I hope we don’t fire him again as this **** has a way of repeating itself and I don’t wanna be here again in 6 years. Year 7 is the year!
 

NorthernVaGopher said:
Does it make any difference that Pitino is in this seventh year as a head coach while Smith coached over three times that many games?
Click to expand...

No. Big Ten head coaching positions usually aren't considered entry level jobs but we had an idiot AD at the time who thought it would be a good idea to treat this position as one. That doesn't mean we have to share his thinking.
 
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bga1 said:
Well there was that little issue with the laptop.....As to Mbakwe and Royce, Tubby was playing with fire on both and he could easily have had both playing or neither.

No doubt about it, that was unfortunate for Tubby as well. Tubby didn't get fired because he couldn't coach or recruit. He got fired because the future looked bleak as he appeared tired of his job. The trend line on Tubby's career was heading downward. Pitino has to show that he has things going the other way.

Pitino is the coach- that's who I am rooting for, not Tubby. I was thrilled when Tubby was hired and when he was fired. No BT record ever above 9-9 and never finished in the top 4 at 2+ million bucks a year.
Click to expand...

The trendline was heading downward, even though his last season was his best postseason result at the U? When is the next time our trendline will be down enough to only be in the round of 32?
 

SelectionSunday said:
After the current season is completed, we'll have exactly 6 years of data for both Tubby Smith and Richard Pitino. Here's where things stand right now using various criteria I consider important. Notice I don't include overall record (too much variance in non-conference scheduling), and I exclude postseason NIT results simply because wins/losses in the NIT have no bearing on receiving a NCAA bid.

I will update Richard's home/road/neutral, vs. Big Ten, NCAA qualifiers records, etc., once the Gophers' season is complete. Also note, Pitino's current 1-1 Big Ten record IS NOT included.

Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 29-53 (35.4%)
Pitino -- 20-45 (30.8%)

Home Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 16-20 (44.4%)
Pitino -- 10-16 (38.5%)

Road Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Pitino -- 6-20 (23.1%)
Smith -- 4-24 (14.3%)

Neutral-Site Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 9-9 (50%)
Pitino -- 4-9 (30.8%)

Combined Road/Neutral Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers
Smith -- 13-33 (28.3%)
Pitino -- 10-29 (25.6%)

Regular Season Record vs. Big Ten Opponents
Smith -- 46-62 (42.6%)
Pitino -- 31-59 (34.4%)

Big Ten Tournament Record
Smith -- 7-6 (53.8%)
Pitino -- 3-5 (37.5%)

Semifinals or Better Big Ten Tournament Appearances
Smith (2) -- 2008 semifinals, 2010 championship game
Pitino (1) -- 2017 semifinals

NCAA Tournament Appearances/Record
Smith -- 3/1-3 (25%)
Pitino -- 1/0-1 (0%)
Click to expand...


I would say neither one of them has had the career that we want at the U. You do know that Tubby is no longer our coach and will never again be our coach.

So what is your point? Are you trying to worship Tubby? Are you trying to again make the point that Tubby shouldn't have been fired by the U (he has been fired twice since coaching at the U). Are you trying to attack Pitino? We all know that Pitino has had some bad seasons as he learns the job and recruiting. Do you want him fired? Do you want them to stop wearing white uniforms on the light colored court? What are you trying to accomplish with this? I don't get it, what is the point of taking the time to do this work?
 

cjbfbp said:
No. Big Ten head coaching positions usually aren't considered entry level jobs but we had an idiot AD at the time who thought it would be a good idea to treat this position as one. That doesn't mean we have to share his thinking.
Click to expand...

No, but since we have put in the time to let a coach learn shouldn't we at least see if it worked?
 


As to the Gopher BB program - true, championships have not been frequent.

But, My sense as someone who has been following the Gophers since the early 70's is that the program has generally been competitive. Under Musselman, Dutcher and Clem, there were some really fun years and big wins. The '77 team that was ineligible may have been the best team in program history (beat the eventual NCAA champs).

Sure, there were up-and-down seasons, but in general, I always had the sense that the Gophers were capable of knocking off any team in the conference on a given night. They had a fighting chance. In the post-Clem era, with the restrictions, etc, things got a little down, but there were still individual moments, or even individual players who were fun to watch.

so, I guess I have a generally more favorable view of the program. Yeah, it would be great to win a title every now and then, but if they play entertaining ball, and beat Iowa whenever possible, I can live with that.
 

alchemy2u said:
I would say neither one of them has had the career that we want at the U. You do know that Tubby is no longer our coach and will never again be our coach.

So what is your point? Are you trying to worship Tubby? Are you trying to again make the point that Tubby shouldn't have been fired by the U (he has been fired twice since coaching at the U). Are you trying to attack Pitino? We all know that Pitino has had some bad seasons as he learns the job and recruiting. Do you want him fired? Do you want them to stop wearing white uniforms on the light colored court? What are you trying to accomplish with this? I don't get it, what is the point of taking the time to do this work?
Click to expand...

Great points and it is everything I have been thinking while reading this thread. I hope this thread is still around if Pitino has a big year. I don’t know what will happen this year with the won loss record and NCAA tournament, etc. The conference is strong. One thing I do know is that baring injury bugs we are going to see some very exciting basketball this year with these guys. If Curry adds positivity to the mix this could be a very special year. The best part of it all, at least with me, is that right now we have no idea what will happen.
 




alchemy2u said:
I would say neither one of them has had the career that we want at the U. You do know that Tubby is no longer our coach and will never again be our coach.

So what is your point? Are you trying to worship Tubby? Are you trying to again make the point that Tubby shouldn't have been fired by the U (he has been fired twice since coaching at the U). Are you trying to attack Pitino? We all know that Pitino has had some bad seasons as he learns the job and recruiting. Do you want him fired? Do you want them to stop wearing white uniforms on the light colored court? What are you trying to accomplish with this? I don't get it, what is the point of taking the time to do this work?
Click to expand...

I am neither worshiping Tubby or Pitino. Did not offer an opinion on the numbers, only presented them.

And yes, no matter how this season turms out, I will update this in March to continue the comparison. Not sure why you’re offended by it.
 

cjbfbp said:
No. Big Ten head coaching positions usually aren't considered entry level jobs but we had an idiot AD at the time who thought it would be a good idea to treat this position as one. That doesn't mean we have to share his thinking.
Click to expand...

No one wanted the job. Offered it to like 12 people before Pitino. Ran into some bad luck with both Saunders and Hoiberg almost taking it. My biggest issue or worry about firing Pitino is that I don't know who we may get. Musselman ain't coming here and I'm not sold Hoiberg would or do great here.
Now with that all being said, if this year they flounder, then there is no loss in changing leadership. A major reason Tubby got fired was two bad recruiting classes in a row and he'd basically wrecked relationships with HS and AAU coaches in the state. Teague also was way too arrogant in believing he would get a higher tier guy without giving them money and facilities. We went through the same process in hiring a football coach too.
Coyle at least has a better track record imo of hiring coaches and will at least have a plan if he chooses to change our coach, but we might not get as high a quality candidate as we would hope for.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
But, My sense as someone who has been following the Gophers since the early 70's is that the program has generally been competitive. Under Musselman, Dutcher and Clem, there were some really fun years and big wins. The '77 team that was ineligible may have been the best team in program history (beat the eventual NCAA champs).
Click to expand...

The problem is that freshmen in college were not alive when any of the coaches you mentioned were here and college seniors were probably too young to remember Clem. (That’s not to say we shouldn’t want better)
 

Frank Grimey Grimes said:
Yeah, only once. At Memphis. Texas Tech would have loved to keep him.
Click to expand...

My bad, I wasn’t sure about TT and a quick search found a Tubby fired at TT link. I must have misread it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

SelectionSunday said:
I am neither worshiping Tubby or Pitino. Did not offer an opinion on the numbers, only presented them.

And yes, no matter how this season turms out, I will update this in March to continue the comparison. Not sure why you’re offended by it.
Click to expand...

I was just wondering why, did you do the same for Monson, Dutcher, Clem...etc...? Maybe I am just getting sick of so many threads bashing our coach.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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