Siyani Chambers on Harvard

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So we should recruit kids to Minnesota just because they are from Minnesota?

Welcome to the squad Kevin Noreen! Sorry Mo, you're going to have to go back to Canada. You too Elliot, off to Nebraska, btw Andre, you're no longer welcome here either. Austin, you as well. Bye guys. Hope we never see you again.
 

scher215 said:
So we should recruit kids to Minnesota just because they are from Minnesota?

Welcome to the squad Kevin Noreen! Sorry Mo, you're going to have to go back to Canada. You too Elliot, off to Nebraska, btw Andre, you're no longer welcome here either. Austin, you as well. Bye guys. Hope we never see you again.
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Wow... Thats not the point.
 


Prep Insider said:
Are you serious? Its pretty simple, THEY ARE MN KIDS!!! What other D1 schools should know more about MN kids than the home state school. I bet if you ask any member of the gopher staff to name the top 10 kids in MN class of 2016 they couldn't, I am not confident that they could name the top 10 kids in 2015 or 2014. Its their job to know!!
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Yes, I'm quite serious. This isn't 1950. Geography is not the limiting factor it used to be. All programs recruit all over the country, some more than others. If there is a player in Bumf*ck, ID worth knowing about - trust me, Kentucky, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Kansas, etc. will all be in on him. Why should a local AQ-caliber player be any more "known" by the U than by South Florida, Baylor, Maryland, USC, or Washington St.? Again, this isn't 1950. There are no secrets or hidden gems. If these players were deemed worthy of being AQ-caliber players, SOMEONE would've offered them. Even ONE AQ school would've offered. I'm not going to pretend that Tubby and staff don't miss players. Every school does. Every AQ school in this country misses out on tons of players each and every year. So why do you single out Tubby and his staff? It couldn't be some kind of agenda, could it? Naw.

I don't care where a player is from. If he's good enough to play for the U, and wants to be here, let's sign him, whether he's from Minnesota or Sri Lanka. Geography is only important insofar as Minnesota kids are more likely to sign with the U than non-Minnesota kids. Other than that, geography is utterly irrelevant. I suppose by your logic our starting 5 should be Coleman, Williams, Halvorsen, Ingram, and Mbakwe?

I'm dying to hear all these salacious recruiting stories you have to tell us.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I suppose by your logic our starting 5 should be Coleman, Williams, Halvorsen, Ingram, and Mbakwe?

I'm dying to hear all these salacious recruiting stories you have to tell us.
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More like: Nate Wolters, Coleman, Rodney, Trevor and Alec Brown.

I am not a Minnesota homer but I do respect the talent MN produces. IMO U of MN should be the best at evaluating talent in the borders of MN. When you have a 7'1" kid in Winona or 6'10" in Roseville, I would make sure that I do my due dilagence before I let them leave the state. My experiences with the gopher staff is that they do not put the time or effort into making sure a kid isnt good enough.

SCHER: I personally don't think Chambers was a miss by the staff. Might want to read my Initial post.

There is a HUGE group of players coming down the pipeline in the next few MN classes. I hope the staff puts the work-in to make sure they aren't letting any future NBA players slip through their fingers.

If I start giving specific info, it wont be hard to figure out who I am. Sorry, I would rather stay anonymous.

Guess we will have to agree not to agree
 


Prep Insider said:
IMO U of MN should be the best at evaluating talent in the borders of MN.
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Why? There are tons of schools with more resources and better personnel than the U. Why should the U be better at this than all of them? It's not at all a big deal for anyone from any school in the country to fly in to Minneapolis to evaluate a player as frequently as they want to. Once again, you're living in a 1950s mentality. Virtually all the information you could ever want is a few keystrokes or a phone call away, and it's very easy and cost effective to personally get what you can't get/don't trust unless you procure it yourself.

Prep Insider said:
My experiences with the gopher staff is that they do not put the time or effort into making sure a kid isnt good enough.
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Link? In an extremely cutthroat, competitive, and lucrative business, Tubby Smith has managed to last several decades and is still making more money in one year than most of us will make in a lifetime. And you're telling me he's gotten this far by being lazy?

Prep Insider said:
If I start giving specific info, it wont be hard to figure out who I am. Sorry, I would rather stay anonymous.
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Translation: I want to pretend like I'm a big insider and enjoy all the reverence it entails, but I'm nobody and don't know anything more than the rest of you. If you wanted to stay anonymous, you wouldn't puff out your chest and look for instant credibility on the basis of nothing.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Why? There are tons of schools with more resources and better personnel than the U. Why should the U be better at this than all of them? It's not at all a big deal for anyone from any school in the country to fly in to Minneapolis to evaluate a player as frequently as they want to. Once again, you're living in a 1950s mentality. Virtually all the information you could ever want is a few keystrokes or a phone call away, and it's very easy and cost effective to personally get what you can't get/don't trust unless you procure it yourself.

Link? In an extremely cutthroat, competitive, and lucrative business, Tubby Smith has managed to last several decades and is still making more money in one year than most of us will make in a lifetime. And you're telling me he's gotten this far by being lazy?

Translation: I want to pretend like I'm a big insider and enjoy all the reverence it entails, but I'm nobody and don't know anything more than the rest of you. If you wanted to stay anonymous, you wouldn't puff out your chest and look for instant credibility on the basis of nothing.
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I really hate agreeing with dp but he's exactly right. Tubby has reached out to the Minnesota high school coaches and in my opinion has done a lot for basketball in Minnesota
 

I can't help but notice that the Tubby-hating "Tubby misses on SOOO MANY Minnesota kids" detractors only list out the players playing for non-AQ schools, players like Wolters, Jett, Muscala, and Brown. They conveniently ignore the players that would truly make the point - that is, guys who are playing for other AQ schools and were not offered by Minnesota. They conveniently ignore them for two major reasons:

1. It's much easier to get a lot of PT and put up huge stats when you're playing for a weaker team in a weaker conference. This can make it appear as though you belong/deserve to be in a bigger conference.

2. The wheat really gets separated from the chaff at the AQ conference level. If a player is good for, say, Washington St. or Wake Forest, odds are high that he would be good for Minnesota as well. The odds are much lower that a player who is good for Wofford or Wisconsin-Green Bay would be good for Minnesota.

With those facts in mind, here's a list of all Minnesota HS players since Tubby's hiring who did sign with an AQ school other than Minnesota and were not offered by Minnesota (at least not according to Rivals):

Riley Dearring
Sanjay Lumpkin
Graham Woodward
Ross Travis
Calvin Godfrey
Kevin Noreen
Trent Lockett
Mike Broghammer
Mike Bruesewitz
Andrew Brommer

This list purposefully excludes players like Shelby Moats, who signed with Vanderbilt despite holding a Minnesota offer, and Sam Dower, who signed with Gonzaga (not an AQ school) despite holding offers from Cal, Marquette, and Minnesota. You can't really call them "misses" because Minnesota appeared to want them and didn't get them. Getting outrecruited is a different issue than "missing" on players.

So who from the above list do you wish were playing for the Gophers? Lockett? Sure, I'd love to have him, but he was in the 2009 class, and we'd have had to forfeit one of Cobbs, White, Williams, or Mbakwe. I don't know for sure (I'm not an "insider" like you are), but I'd presume he signed Cobbs over offering Lockett because he wanted a PG. So which of the other 3 did you not want him to sign? White? It's easy to say now, but I challenge you to find anyone in 2008 or 2009 saying they'd rather have Lockett than a 5-star White in 2009.

That's why this "argument" is a joke. It rests on taking low-level Division I players (who were ALL missed by EVERY AQ school in the country, btw) and taking their successful performance at that lesser level to mean that they would be equally good players in the Big Ten, which they almost certainly would not. Of the players Tubby "should've" offered (i.e., players with other AQ offers) all of them are non-factors except Lockett, who he didn't/wouldn't/couldn't sign because he had 4 scholarships to give and 4 players he liked better. In essence, the "argument" rests on "missing" one impact player in 5 recruiting classes. Yup, he sure "misses" on a lot of players, doesn't he?
 

dpodoll68 said:
I can't help but notice that the Tubby-hating "Tubby misses on SOOO MANY Minnesota kids" detractors only list out the players playing for non-AQ schools, players like Wolters, Jett, Muscala, and Brown. They conveniently ignore the players that would truly make the point - that is, guys who are playing for other AQ schools and were not offered by Minnesota. They conveniently ignore them for two major reasons:

1. It's much easier to get a lot of PT and put up huge stats when you're playing for a weaker team in a weaker conference. This can make it appear as though you belong/deserve to be in a bigger conference.

2. The wheat really gets separated from the chaff at the AQ conference level. If a player is good for, say, Washington St. or Wake Forest, odds are high that he would be good for Minnesota as well. The odds are much lower that a player who is good for Wofford or Wisconsin-Green Bay would be good for Minnesota.

With those facts in mind, here's a list of all Minnesota HS players since Tubby's hiring who did sign with an AQ school other than Minnesota and were not offered by Minnesota (at least not according to Rivals):

Riley Dearring
Sanjay Lumpkin
Graham Woodward
Ross Travis
Calvin Godfrey
Kevin Noreen
Trent Lockett
Mike Broghammer
Mike Bruesewitz
Andrew Brommer

This list purposefully excludes players like Shelby Moats, who signed with Vanderbilt despite holding a Minnesota offer, and Sam Dower, who signed with Gonzaga (not an AQ school) despite holding offers from Cal, Marquette, and Minnesota. You can't really call them "misses" because Minnesota appeared to want them and didn't get them. Getting outrecruited is a different issue than "missing" on players.

So who from the above list do you wish were playing for the Gophers? Lockett? Sure, I'd love to have him, but he was in the 2009 class, and we'd have had to forfeit one of Cobbs, White, Williams, or Mbakwe. I don't know for sure (I'm not an "insider" like you are), but I'd presume he signed Cobbs over offering Lockett because he wanted a PG. So which of the other 3 did you not want him to sign? White? It's easy to say now, but I challenge you to find anyone in 2008 or 2009 saying they'd rather have Lockett than a 5-star White in 2009.

That's why this "argument" is a joke. It rests on taking low-level Division I players (who were ALL missed by EVERY AQ school in the country, btw) and taking their successful performance at that lesser level to mean that they would be equally good players in the Big Ten, which they almost certainly would not. Of the players Tubby "should've" offered (i.e., players with other AQ offers) all of them are non-factors except Lockett, who he didn't/wouldn't/couldn't sign because he had 4 scholarships to give and 4 players he liked better. In essence, the "argument" rests on "missing" one impact player in 5 recruiting classes. Yup, he sure "misses" on a lot of players, doesn't he?
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I think some that have love for wolters forget he was in the 2009 class as well and with hindsight now, doing it all over again wolters is still the odd man out because If I'm not offering white, I'm offering lockett
 



lakesgopher said:
I think some that have love for wolters forget he was in the 2009 class as well and with hindsight now, doing it all over again wolters is still the odd man out because If I'm not offering white, I'm offering lockett
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Agreed.

The only other argument I can MAYBE see, is you take Wolters over Cobbs to play PG. However, if you needed a starting PG for your team in 2 years do you risk that job on a 3-Star recruit from Cali who also held offers to Colorado, Iowa, San Diego State, Santa Clara, USC, and Washington St or do you take the unranked recruit from St. Cloud who held offers from North Dakota and South Dakota State? If you ignore how things panned out since, it is a no-brainer you take Cobbs.
 

I don't agree with DP a lot of the time, but DAMN Prep Insider, he just laid it on you. Go home, lick your wounds, and maybe try and dig up some "scoops" because your assessment of Tubby's recruiting of MN kids just got completely undressed.
 

scher215 said:
So we should recruit kids to Minnesota just because they are from Minnesota?

Welcome to the squad Kevin Noreen! Sorry Mo, you're going to have to go back to Canada. You too Elliot, off to Nebraska, btw Andre, you're no longer welcome here either. Austin, you as well. Bye guys. Hope we never see you again.
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How about hello Kevin Noreen and Jorair Jett, sorry Mav you're going to have to go back to California, You too Chip, wait you're already gone!!

Seriously, besides those two misses the other player many underevaluated is Alec Brown. He deserved an offer from a high-major. He was simular to John Luer, both had a 10 inch growth spurt in high school. Took Brown a little more time then Luer to adjust.

Btw... Jett being a poor man's Hollins?? Are you kidding me???? Did you not see him in the NCAA not NIT tournament last year?? I would say Welch and Ahamnisi are poor man's Jett! And as much as like Coleman Jett has a better all around game. Also, at this point in there career Noreen and Eliason look very similar. Both active bigs who are lucky to touch the ball. But you can't tell me with all the late signees we had there wasn't any room to recruit Noreen who actually did have high-major offers and committed to WV fresh off the final four.
 

SoMpls said:
How about hello Kevin Noreen and Jorair Jett, sorry Mav you're going to have to go back to California, You too Chip, wait you're already gone!!
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Don't forget, Maverick was a spring signing to replace Joseph I believe. One could argue Tubby should have banked that scholarship, but I don't think he had a whole of options for signing someone at that time. Armelin was a very late signing as well.
 



GophersInIowa said:
Don't forget, Maverick was a spring signing to replace Joseph I believe. One could argue Tubby should have banked that scholarship, but I don't think he had a whole of options for signing someone at that time. Armelin was a very late signing as well.
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Jett and Noreen signed late
 

SoMpls said:
How about hello Kevin Noreen and Jorair Jett, sorry Mav you're going to have to go back to California, You too Chip, wait you're already gone!!

Seriously, besides those two misses the other player many underevaluated is Alec Brown. He deserved an offer from a high-major. He was simular to John Luer, both had a 10 inch growth spurt in high school. Took Brown a little more time then Luer to adjust.

Btw... Jett being a poor man's Hollins?? Are you kidding me???? Did you not see him in the NCAA not NIT tournament last year?? I would say Welch and Ahamnisi are poor man's Jett! And as much as like Coleman Jett has a better all around game. Also, at this point in there career Noreen and Eliason look very similar. Both active bigs who are lucky to touch the ball. But you can't tell me with all the late signees we had there wasn't any room to recruit Noreen who actually did have high-major offers and committed to WV fresh off the final four.
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Again, you are basing this off of how they are right now. Tubby is not recruiting them, right now. They were being recruited years ago.

So, when you look at them as high school seniors ...

Missed?
Alec Brown - Rivals unranked. Offers from Air Force, Bowling Green, Bucknell, Fairfield, Florida Gulf Coast, Green Bay, Loyola Chicago, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Oral Roberts, and South Dakota State.

Got
Elliot Elliason - Rivals 3 Star. Offers from Creighton and Stanford.
Maurice Walker - Rivals 3 Star. Rivals top 150 (123). Offers from UCONN, Pitt, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Texas A&M, Virginia

(Those were the TWO centers we signed that class. The other signees were Mav, Austin, Chip and Oto. I could give you taking Brown over Mav, Chip, or Oto maybe (although Oto may have had a Florida offer?), but then you'd have signed three centers in one class to a team that already had RSIII and Colton Iverson)

Minnesota signed two centers rated higher than Brown at the time. Maybe could have added a third, but with RSIII, EE, Mo, Colton and Trevor playing time would have been scarce for another center.

Missed?
Jordair Jett - Rivals Unranked. Offers from Saint Louis and Baylor.

Got
Austin Hollins - Rivals 3 Star. Offers from Arkansas, Memphis, Oregon State
Maverick Ahanmisi - Rivals Unranked. Offers from Loyola Chicago, UCSB
Chip Armelin - Rivals Unranked. Offers from Louisiana Tech, North Texas

This one I've gotta be a little more lenient with you on. If the decision was signing Mav/Chip or Jett? I'll take Jett please. Even in 2010. He signed with Saint Louis in May 2010. Mav signed with Minnesota May 2010 and Chip August 2010. I do not recall all of the details and dates of transfers that year, but Jett may have still been around when Mav signed and probably a better pick up.

Missed?
Kevin Noreen - Rivals 3 Star. Offers from Arkansas, Northwestern, Oklahoma, Providence, and Washington St.

Got
Minnesota did not sign a SF in this class (which is what Rivals lists Noreen as). You could consider Oto a SF/PF (Rivals lists him as a PF) I suppose:
Oto Osenieks - Rivals Unranked. Offers from Florida, Green Bay, Iowa St., Providence

Noreen may have been the better recruit, but it is arguable either way I think.

It seems like you consider Noreen a C though like EE or MO, and I think it is also close between EE and Noreen as recruits.

Since all of your examples were class of 2010, I'd say the strongest case would have been taking Jett over Mav or Chip. Other than that, I can't fault Tubby for taking EE and Mo over Brown at the time. Could possibly have a beef with taking Oto/EE over Noreen if you wanted to argue there, but could go either way I'd guess.
 

Would Jett have even gotten into the U? He also graduated in 09. Lost to pelican rapids in the title game and didn't look impressive. I believe he went to prep school so he was always a maybe at best IMO
 

lakesgopher said:
Would Jett have even gotten into the U? He also graduated in 09. Lost to pelican rapids in the title game and didn't look impressive. I believe he went to prep school so he was always a maybe at best IMO
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That is the other question with some of these guys, could they have gotten in and would they have wanted to play here?
 

lakesgopher said:
Would Jett have even gotten into the U?
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Yes. He came in to college the same year as Chip and Mav. He is clearly better than both. Gophers followed him and passed, same with Alex Brown.

It would be hard to know Brown would be this good, it was clear Jett was a stud.
 

NurumbiCongo said:
Yes. He came in to college the same year as Chip and Mav. He is clearly better than both. Gophers followed him and passed, same with Alex Brown.

It would be hard to know Brown would be this good, it was clear Jett was a stud.
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I think he meant academically, did Jett have the grades to get in?
 


lakesgopher said:
09 was a very good year for Minnesota basketball
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It really was.

Rivals top 150

Royce White - 19 (Minnesota)
Trent Lockett - 80 (Arizona State)
Rodney Williams - 100 (Minnesota)
Sam Dower - 116 (Gonzaga)
Mike Bruesewitz - 118 (Wisconsin)

Not bad ...
 

That is what I said yes to.

Mr. Basketball Finalist:

Mike Broghammer, Trent Lockett, Royce White, Raymond Cowles, Chris Halvorsen, Mike Bruesewitz, Mike Felt, Mike Muscala; Josh Figini, Rodney Williams, Sam Dower, Tydan Storrusten, Nate Wolters, Marc Sonnen, and Jordair Jett
 

Considering Jett went to Notre Dame Prep and reclassified then gained entrance to SLU while also holding a Baylor offer I can only assume he would've been admitted bit idk. One thing you're not mentioning is Chip and Mav's offers. They had 0 high major offers. Tubby never saw Chip play!! Jett is a 3 year starter and as been to the NCAA Sweet 16. The jury is out on Chip and Mav. Those are also misses... For the Gophers!! And you can't tell me with the 4 players the Gophers signed late the Noreen didn't deserve an offer.
 

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