Sinclair(Bally's Sport) nearing a deal for NBA streaming rights for direct to consumer offering

[howeda7]

Will create a new local/regional network and later sell to a syndicate, who will sell to another, who will file bankruptcy....

The circle of life. I do think the regional teams going together makes more sense than the league doing it. People are more likely to pay $20/month to watch the Wolves/Wild/Twins than $100 each to get MLB/NBA/NHL IMO.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

found this on the new Chicago Network:
nothing yet on what the streaming service would cost.

A joint venture among the three teams and Standard Media, CHSN will broadcast from studios located in both Chicago’s United Center and Guaranteed Rate Field.

CHSN will start with airing Blackhawks and Bulls preseason games in October, showing White Sox games beginning in 2025. The rest of the White Sox games in 2024 will remain on NBC Sports Chicago.

Pending league approvals, CHSN will reach most of Illinois, as well as parts of Indiana, Iowa, Michigan and Wisconsin.

The network said it will launch with agreements in place with traditional cable providers, streaming services and be available via free, over-the-air broadcast.

 

[gophersfan]

So what your thoughts. Would a new network work for the Twins, Wild, Wolves and the Lynx. I included the Lynx in it. I see it as a maybe. But we will see. Bring back Midwest Sports Channel.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

two issues for launching a new network/channel of that type.

#1 is distribution. need to be able to get cable and satellite systems to pick up the new channel. also need to have a streaming option and potentially an over-the-air local station option.

#2 is revenue. to make the venture break even or turn a profit, you have to generate enough revenue to cover your expenses. that means negotiating fee agreements with the cable, satellite and over-the-air TV providers, and it means getting enough people to sign up for the streaming service at a sufficient monthly or yearly rate to generate the needed revenue.

short version - people need to be able to see it and be willing to pay for it.

and the big question - how much would the network have to charge for broadcast fees and for streaming subscribers? would people pay $25 or $30 a month to stream the Wolves, Wild and Twins - and how many people would sign up at that rate?

 

[short ornery norwegian]

damn - just ran across this bit of news online:

According to a Bloomberg report, FanDuel is eyeing a multiyear naming rights deal with Diamond Sports Group to bring the gaming brand to 18 regional pay-TV networks. As part of the deal, FanDuel will reportedly acquire a stake in Diamond while also providing the subsidiary of Sinclair Broadcast Group with programming for the 18 channels.

FanDuel has also reportedly vowed to resell Diamond’s streaming service to customers.

so if Diamond survives, instead of watching Bally Sports North, it would be FanDuel Sports North. wonder what impact this will have on the proposed reorganizational plan?

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Bankruptcy court status hearing at 11:00am today. will post update when outlets report on outcome.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Phil Miller from the Strib on the Diamond status hearing - shots were fired!

Negotiations between Comcast cable systems and the Bally Sports Networks "are currently at an impasse," an attorney for Bally's parent company told a bankruptcy judge in Houston on Tuesday.

"Based on Comcast's intransigence to negotiate off their current position," said attorney Joe Graham, representing Diamond Sports Group, "the company has little choice but to explore alternatives to Comcast."

(note - the alternatives may include trying to do a new deal with Fubo....)

At a brief-but-contentious hearing before Judge Christopher Lopez, Major League Baseball, the NBA and the NHL all expressed their doubts about doing business with the networks much longer.

"Without a Comcast deal, [Diamond] may very well not be able to survive," said Vincent Indelicato, the NBA's attorney. "We simply cannot wait much longer" to find out.

But Lopez confirmed that he has agreed to move back a final decision on Diamond's future to July 30, more than a month past the June 18 deadline that the NBA and NHL had insisted upon at a hearing in May.

The fall leagues are dismayed by that delay, their attorneys said, citing their need to finalize broadcast plans for next season sometime soon.

They need time "well ahead of next season to properly produce, distribute and market games," Indelicato said. "We're talking about approximately 70 games per team across 15 different teams. You just simply can't launch [a new broadcasting partnership] for approximately 1,000 games in that many geographies overnight."

NHL attorney Shana Elberg said the league might not wait.

"We have told the debtors unequivocally that we need to get clarity on certain outstanding matters this week," she said.

Baseball's attorney, James Bromley, told Lopez that MLB currently plans to formally object to allowing Diamond to stay in business beyond this season

 

[short ornery norwegian]

and more on today's contentious hearing - from awful announcing.com --

NBA, NHL and MLB unhappy with the information - or lack of information provided by Diamond:

“We still have substantial concerns about the viability of the debtor’s business plan,” said James Bromley, MLB’s outside counsel. “We anticipate filing an objection.”

Similarly, the NBA’s outside counsel Vincent Indelicato chimed in, “The urgency, Your Honor, has been heightened by what we view and I think … as a very clear absence of any information today that would suggest to us that these debtors can achieve a viable business plan.”

And not to be outdone, the NHL’s outside counsel Shana Elberg said, “Time is of the essence, we do not yet have the answers we need from the debtors or a workable go-forward business plan.”

Even the judge overseeing the case, Chris Lopez said, “Whether Comcast is essential to the deal or not, I don’t know.”

To this end, MLB has reached a discovery agreement with DSG and will begin depositions next month.

(MLB’s Bromley) “The speculation right now is really more on the debtor’s fronts than on MLB’s front. Based on current information, we have zero comfort and zero information about the viability of the business going forward. If the debtors are able to produce information by the end of the month, it changes our mind. That’s great. We are not confident of that, but we are certainly willing to see what they produce.”

DSG told the court it has distribution deals “representing approximately 84% of our historic revenue.” That though does not mean these new deals will produce the same amount of revenue, especially if the channels are moved to a paid cable tier.

 

[howeda7]

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Update - Diamond Sports wants emergency hearing - because they don't want to turn over information to Pro sports leagues. Pro sports leagues say they can't make an informed decision without the information. From Awful Announcing.com --

Diamond Sports Group tonight asked a federal bankruptcy court for an emergency hearing Tuesday because it cannot resolve demands from the NBA, NHL, and MLB for documents like cable distribution agreements and the contract with Amazon Prime Video to stream the RSNs games.

Discovery disputes are hardly uncommon in legal processes, but the clock in this case is ticking loudly. There is a Chapter 11 plan confirmation hearing scheduled for July 29, which the leagues have said or suggested they would oppose if they are not convinced the plan is financially viable.

The leagues want details of the distribution contracts with carriers like Fubo, Charter, Cox, and DirecTV, as well as historical information on how financially important Comcast is to DSG. Comcast dropped the RSNs last month after failing to renew.

DSG said in its request that these contracts are protected by confidentiality agreements (in fact the RSN company added in a footnote it cannot even disclose the confidentiality agreements, because, well, they are confidential). It offered to show them privately to the judge.

“Such contracts each contain confidentiality provisions that, in substance, prevent the Debtors from disclosing the contracts or the information therein, to third parties absent the consent of the Debtors’ counterparty or a court order,” DSG wrote.

MLB is also asking DSG for all the details since the start of last year for its NHL and NBA contracts; when they expire, was the rights fee reduced, and so forth.

According to a timeline included in the motion, June 28 is the deadline for DSG to comply with the documents requests, and list of questions, known in legal parlance as interrogatories. Depositions are scheduled to start July 10.

The leagues also want to see the Amazon commercial agreement. No dice so far.

“The Debtors, Amazon, and the Leagues have so far been unable to resolve the parties’ respective concerns over disclosure in any fashion of the Commercial Agreement.” DSG wrote.

​

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Update - there will be an emergency hearing Tuesday morning in bankruptcy court. Diamond is asking the Judge to limit the materials that MLB may access through the discovery process. part of Diamond's argument is that MLB wants information on Diamond's current agreements with distributors - and Diamond says those agreements are covered by confidentiality agreements. In fact, Diamond says the confidentiality agreement itself is confidential and may not be shared with outside parties.

(MLB - we want to see the confidentiality agreement. Diamond - we can't show it to you - it's confidential.....)

I just read the court docket and it is a tribute to how lawyers make the English language almost unreadable. here is an excerpt:

References to the singular shall include the plural and references to the plural shall include the singular; the conjunctive shall include the disjunctive and the disjunctive shall include the conjunctive; and the present tense shall include the past tense and the past tense shall include the present tense.

but bottom line - I could be wrong but this smells like Diamond trying to stretch out the discovery process and force another delay in the case.

 

[RememberMurray]

I just read the court docket and it is a tribute to how lawyers make the English language almost unreadable. here is an excerpt:

References to the singular shall include the plural and references to the plural shall include the singular; the conjunctive shall include the disjunctive and the disjunctive shall include the conjunctive; and the present tense shall include the past tense and the past tense shall include the present tense.

The party of the first part...

 

[short ornery norwegian]

in other news -- FUBO is dropping an RSN due to a carriage dispute. from Cord-Cutters News:

Last night, Fubo lost access to the RSN Monumental Sports Network. This network offered access to the NHL Washington Capitals, NBA Wizards, and WNBA Washington Mystics games.

Fubo said: Unfortunately, we were unable to reach terms with Monumental Sports Network to renew our content agreement.
The RSN said: Throughout the process, we negotiated in good faith to keep our local independent network available to Fubo’s subscribers, including offering Fubo market-rate terms that other larger distributors have accepted. Unfortunately, Fubo did not appear motivated to come to a deal and refused several generous offers.

earlier this year Fubo dropped another RSN due to a contract dispute:

Fubo has confirmed to Cord Cutters News that SNY will leave Fubo after the two sides where unable to reach a new deal.
SportsNet New York, also known as SNY, is the home for the New York Mets. SNY also offers a selection of college sports and Major League Rugby games on its network. The network is a joint partnership between Comcast and Spectrum.

 

[howeda7]

in other news -- FUBO is dropping an RSN due to a carriage dispute. from Cord-Cutters News:

Last night, Fubo lost access to the RSN Monumental Sports Network. This network offered access to the NHL Washington Capitals, NBA Wizards, and WNBA Washington Mystics games.

Fubo said: Unfortunately, we were unable to reach terms with Monumental Sports Network to renew our content agreement.
The RSN said: Throughout the process, we negotiated in good faith to keep our local independent network available to Fubo’s subscribers, including offering Fubo market-rate terms that other larger distributors have accepted. Unfortunately, Fubo did not appear motivated to come to a deal and refused several generous offers.

earlier this year Fubo dropped another RSN due to a contract dispute:

Fubo has confirmed to Cord Cutters News that SNY will leave Fubo after the two sides where unable to reach a new deal.
SportsNet New York, also known as SNY, is the home for the New York Mets. SNY also offers a selection of college sports and Major League Rugby games on its network. The network is a joint partnership between Comcast and Spectrum.

Fubo and DirecTV's main argument for existing is that they have the sports channels the others don't. I don't see how that works out for Fubo. First they dropped all Turner stations during NHL/NBA play-off season and now this. Your entire US Market can't be European soccer fans.

 

[Ope3]

Fubo and DirecTV's main argument for existing is that they have the sports channels the others don't. I don't see how that works out for Fubo. First they dropped all Turner stations during NHL/NBA play-off season and now this. Your entire US Market can't be European soccer fans.

Turner also has a ton of MLB games, including the playoffs and an LCS.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Fubo and DirecTV's main argument for existing is that they have the sports channels the others don't. I don't see how that works out for Fubo. First they dropped all Turner stations during NHL/NBA play-off season and now this. Your entire US Market can't be European soccer fans.

my point in posting was that we are seeing more and more of these carriage disputes. it's really gotten to a game of hardball between the providers and the distributors. the entire financial model that supported the RSN's is collapsing as we watch and the new models are still taking shape. as much as a Fubo might want to carry a certain sports network, they have their own financial model which tells them it's not worth it to carry a network if the price is too high. otherwise, Fubo has to keep jacking up its subscription price and run the risk of people getting sticker shock and switching to another service.

the next few years, I suspect, will be really confusing and frustrating for sports fans until it all shakes out and we figure out what the new normal will be. but I also suspect that the new normal is going to be more expensive than most people expected.

 

[howeda7]

my point in posting was that we are seeing more and more of these carriage disputes. it's really gotten to a game of hardball between the providers and the distributors. the entire financial model that supported the RSN's is collapsing as we watch and the new models are still taking shape. as much as a Fubo might want to carry a certain sports network, they have their own financial model which tells them it's not worth it to carry a network if the price is too high. otherwise, Fubo has to keep jacking up its subscription price and run the risk of people getting sticker shock and switching to another service.

the next few years, I suspect, will be really confusing and frustrating for sports fans until it all shakes out and we figure out what the new normal will be. but I also suspect that the new normal is going to be more expensive than most people expected.

I get it in general. But these two have made sports their corner of the market. They already tack on a "regional sports fee" to what you pay. So does DirecTV. If you're going to do that, you darn well better at least have the channels sports fans need. DirecTV is a PITA sometimes and too expensive but at least they mostly avoid dropping sports networks outside of local affiliate issues.

 

[howeda7]

the next few years, I suspect, will be really confusing and frustrating for sports fans until it all shakes out and we figure out what the new normal will be. but I also suspect that the new normal is going to be more expensive than most people expected.

We're already seeing "bundles" of streaming packages put together and offered directly through Comcast/Amazon etc. My guess is Amazon and one or two others will eventually offer something that has "almost" everything (a basic network line-up + Netflix + Peacock + Amazon Prime) in one subscription that you can access in one interface. We're going to end up mostly back where we started but go through a lot of turmoil in between.

 

[jamiche]

I get it in general. But these two have made sports their corner of the market. They already tack on a "regional sports fee" to what you pay. So does DirecTV. If you're going to do that, you darn well better at least have the channels sports fans need. DirecTV is a PITA sometimes and too expensive but at least they mostly avoid dropping sports networks outside of local affiliate issues.

I switched to DirecTV Streaming when Xfinity tossed Bally and, yes, it is a PITA. However, it's the only game in town if you want the (local) games.

What's unclear to me is if the Twins/Wolves/Wild/Lynx drop Bally, will there be any way in the short term for us to access our teams?

 

[howeda7]

I switched to DirecTV Streaming when Xfinity tossed Bally and, yes, it is a PITA. However, it's the only game in town if you want the (local) games.

What's unclear to me is if the Twins/Wolves/Wild/Lynx drop Bally, will there be any way in the short term for us to access our teams?

I still have the satellite package, though you effectively get both with that as the app works too.

I would assume in the worst case, they will offer a direct streaming package and try to negotiate carriage with DirecTV/cable as well. The Rockies and Padres are on DirecTV on their own stand alone channel. I'm not sure about the D-Backs.

There is talk of the Twins/Wolves/Wild launching their own RSN but who knows on that.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

if Diamond/Bally does go out of business, then I suspect that each of the local teams will try to launch their own direct-to-consumer (streaming) package. at the same time the teams would work through their respective leagues to try and find placement for games on cable TV or over-the-air TV channels.

 

[gophersfan]

if Diamond/Bally does go out of business, then I suspect that each of the local teams will try to launch their own direct-to-consumer (streaming) package. at the same time the teams would work through their respective leagues to try and find placement for games on cable TV or over-the-air TV channels.

That what they are doing. but they are trying to start there own network together.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

That what they are doing. but they are trying to start there own network together.

as far as I know, that idea was floated in connection with plans that Lore and ARod supposedly have if they win control of the Timberwolves. so I think "trying" is maybe a little optimistic.

even with Bloomberg now as a minority partner, I still question whether Lore and ARod have the money to operate the team, try to finance a new arena and launch a start-up sports network. It's highly speculative in my book. maybe they'll prove me wrong.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Well, I actually listened to the Diamond court hearing today. Very short summary:

MLB and the other pro leagues want Diamond and the distributors (Charter, Cox, Direct TV etc) to furnish more information including historical revenue figures and projected future revenue, along with details on Diamond's contracts with the distributors.

Diamond and the Distributors say a lot of that information is confidential and represents trade secrets that would cause harm to the distributors if it was disclosed.

MLB's lawyer said they need the info to be able to hold depositions and make a decision on whether to oppose Diamond's motion to emerge from bankruptcy. MLB also wants info on how the loss of Comcast will impact Diamond's ability to emerge from bankruptcy as a viable entity.

Cox, Charter and Direct TV all seemed to be more friendly to Diamond. the Cox lawyer basically accused MLB's lawyer of mis-stating facts. Cox lawyer also said they are not here "to stand in the way of Diamond emerging from bankruptcy."

a lot of wrangling over so-called "Most Favored Nation" clauses. that means that if one party gets a better deal, the other parties have a right to request the same deal. Diamond and the distributors say they cannot disclose that information, while MLB says they need the information.

Judge Lopez said he will try to issue a ruling this Friday. there is also a hearing Friday morning to discuss matters concerning Diamond's proposed deal with Amazon.

 

[Ope3]

Well, I actually listened to the Diamond court hearing today. Very short summary:

MLB and the other pro leagues want Diamond and the distributors (Charter, Cox, Direct TV etc) to furnish more information including historical revenue figures and projected future revenue, along with details on Diamond's contracts with the distributors.

Diamond and the Distributors say a lot of that information is confidential and represents trade secrets that would cause harm to the distributors if it was disclosed.

MLB's lawyer said they need the info to be able to hold depositions and make a decision on whether to oppose Diamond's motion to emerge from bankruptcy. MLB also wants info on how the loss of Comcast will impact Diamond's ability to emerge from bankruptcy as a viable entity.

Cox, Charter and Direct TV all seemed to be more friendly to Diamond. the Cox lawyer basically accused MLB's lawyer of mis-stating facts. Cox lawyer also said they are not here "to stand in the way of Diamond emerging from bankruptcy."

a lot of wrangling over so-called "Most Favored Nation" clauses. that means that if one party gets a better deal, the other parties have a right to request the same deal. Diamond and the distributors say they cannot disclose that information, while MLB says they need the information.

Judge Lopez said he will try to issue a ruling this Friday. there is also a hearing Friday morning to discuss matters concerning Diamond's proposed deal with Amazon.

I'm starting to think the whole process is a bit on the convoluted side...

 

[Slim Tubby]

I'm starting to think the whole process is a bit on the convoluted side...

All I know is there are a lot of retired folks like my parents that love watching the Twins and can't.

 

[howeda7]

Well, I actually listened to the Diamond court hearing today. Very short summary:

MLB and the other pro leagues want Diamond and the distributors (Charter, Cox, Direct TV etc) to furnish more information including historical revenue figures and projected future revenue, along with details on Diamond's contracts with the distributors.

Diamond and the Distributors say a lot of that information is confidential and represents trade secrets that would cause harm to the distributors if it was disclosed.

MLB's lawyer said they need the info to be able to hold depositions and make a decision on whether to oppose Diamond's motion to emerge from bankruptcy. MLB also wants info on how the loss of Comcast will impact Diamond's ability to emerge from bankruptcy as a viable entity.

Cox, Charter and Direct TV all seemed to be more friendly to Diamond. the Cox lawyer basically accused MLB's lawyer of mis-stating facts. Cox lawyer also said they are not here "to stand in the way of Diamond emerging from bankruptcy."

a lot of wrangling over so-called "Most Favored Nation" clauses. that means that if one party gets a better deal, the other parties have a right to request the same deal. Diamond and the distributors say they cannot disclose that information, while MLB says they need the information.

Judge Lopez said he will try to issue a ruling this Friday. there is also a hearing Friday morning to discuss matters concerning Diamond's proposed deal with Amazon.

How is "how much do they pay you and for how long" a "trade secret"? What complete BS.

 

[howeda7]

All I know is there are a lot of retired folks like my parents that love watching the Twins and can't.

Hopefully the Wolves and Wild aren't sitting on their thumbs all off-season like the Twins did. Unfortunately, their contracts aren't up, so they may be stuck with Bally's unless the court voids them.

 

[Ope3]

Hopefully the Wolves and Wild aren't sitting on their thumbs all off-season like the Twins did. Unfortunately, their contracts aren't up, so they may be stuck with Bally's unless the court voids them.

I tend to think the Twins were hamstrung by Manfred/MLB as far as securing broadcast deals for 2024.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

The circle of life. I do think the regional teams going together makes more sense than the league doing it. People are more likely to pay $20/month to watch the Wolves/Wild/Twins than $100 each to get MLB/NBA/NHL IMO.

I would agree, I think the problem is how much it would cost. I doubt you could get those three for $20 a month...but maybe I am wrong...