Sinclair(Bally's Sport) nearing a deal for NBA streaming rights for direct to consumer offering

[jamiche]

I have gulped hard and remained a cable customer through the years. I overpay for only one reason. I don't want to have to think about finding my teams and, thus far, Xfinity is the only company that has consistently remained under agreement with the RSN's. Is Xfinity a shitty company that charges too much with shitty customer service? Absolutely. Do they deliver my teams? Absolutely. Is that about to change? Looks like it.

I have no idea how it's all going to shake out. I'm fairly certain that my days of turning on the TV (yes a TV) and landing on a Twins, Wolves or Gophers game without having to figure it out are coming to an end.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I have gulped hard and remained a cable customer through the years. I overpay for only one reason. I don't want to have to think about finding my teams and, thus far, Xfinity is the only company that has consistently remained under agreement with the RSN's. Is Xfinity a shitty company that charges too much with shitty customer service? Absolutely. Do they deliver my teams? Absolutely. Is that about to change? Looks like it.

I have no idea how it's all going to shake out. I'm fairly certain that my days of turning on the TV (yes a TV) and landing on a Twins, Wolves or Gophers game without having to figure it out are coming to an end.

You have a cable box.

They will be integrating all these apps into the cable box. If they’re smart, they’ll figure it a way to completely integrate those into the guide. But at the very least, there will be a top level interface where your normal cable (guide) will be one “app” that you can select, and then all the other apps will be there to select.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Well there you go. That's all that actually matter, let's be honest!

Not the fans. Actually being able to watch the games on TV. Nope

MLB taking over the rights would be better for the fans. If you see what MLB did in San Diego, they made Padres games available on a mix of cable and satellite options, and also provided a DTC streaming option.

So IMHO, the sooner Diamond relinquishes the rights - or has them taken away by the court - the sooner fans will have more options to watch the games.

in the latest hearing, the Judge agreed with MLB and ruled against Diamond. Diamond was ordered to pay the full amount of the contract. the next payment is due July 1. If Diamond does not make that payment, it would be like telling the Judge to "bleep off." Ergo, if Diamond does not make that payment, I think it would be a matter of days before MLB obtains the rights to Twins games.

G_4L - there are days when I truly have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

[Gophers_4life]

MLB taking over the rights would be better for the fans. If you see what MLB did in San Diego, they made Padres games available on a mix of cable and satellite options, and also provided a DTC streaming option.

So IMHO, the sooner Diamond relinquishes the rights - or has them taken away by the court - the sooner fans will have more options to watch the games.

Of course. I don't think you think that I or anyone else is arguing anything to the contrary? That is of course the ideal outcome.

in the latest hearing, the Judge agreed with MLB and ruled against Diamond. Diamond was ordered to pay the full amount of the contract.

Without a date when the payment was due. But otherwise correct so far

the next payment is due July 1.

So? There were payment due dates in the past too, that were ignored.

If Diamond does not make that payment, it would be like telling the Judge to "bleep off."

Why? Maybe that makes sense to you, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

Missing the Jul 1 payment does not mean that they won't make the payment eventually, per the judge's order.

Ergo, if Diamond does not make that payment, I think it would be a matter of days before MLB obtains the rights to Twins games.

Here again, this is what you want to be true. We'd all like for this to be true.

I have my doubts. I hope to be wrong

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I have gulped hard and remained a cable customer through the years. I overpay for only one reason. I don't want to have to think about finding my teams and, thus far, Xfinity is the only company that has consistently remained under agreement with the RSN's. Is Xfinity a shitty company that charges too much with shitty customer service? Absolutely. Do they deliver my teams? Absolutely. Is that about to change? Looks like it.

I have no idea how it's all going to shake out. I'm fairly certain that my days of turning on the TV (yes a TV) and landing on a Twins, Wolves or Gophers game without having to figure it out are coming to an end.

How many miles per gallon does your covered wagon get?

 

[jamiche]

How many miles per gallon does your covered wagon get?

The current one gets about 47mpg. The next CW will be an EV.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

The current one gets about 47mpg. The next CW will be an EV.

Hey, don't feel alone. I am still a cable TV customer, and I am not looking forward to the all-streaming future.

in my case, I live in a smaller community that has a municipally-owned Telecom system - phone, cable TV and internet. and I happen to be on the city's Telecom commission that oversees the system, so I feel obligated to have the city cable. We (the commission) have talked about dropping cable and going to a streaming service, but have not been able to accomplish that due to various delays and setbacks.

our cable system does carry BSN - at this time. depending on what happens with Diamond, that could be subject to change.

 

[Gophers_4life]

The only thing that should be provided by your municipality system is fiber internet.

That should be - and be regulated as - a utility. Same as electric. Every residence should have it to their doorstep, same as electric service.

 

[Slim Tubby]

Hey, don't feel alone. I am still a cable TV customer, and I am not looking forward to the all-streaming future.

in my case, I live in a smaller community that has a municipally-owned Telecom system - phone, cable TV and internet. and I happen to be on the city's Telecom commission that oversees the system, so I feel obligated to have the city cable. We (the commission) have talked about dropping cable and going to a streaming service, but have not been able to accomplish that due to various delays and setbacks.

our cable system does carry BSN - at this time. depending on what happens with Diamond, that could be subject to change.

I hate change as much as anyone and was slightly intimidated by the technical aspects of streaming services. I was paying Direct TV $160.00 per month and that included no movie channels or upgrades outside of the basic expanded channel package.

Honestly, the only reason I stayed with them was for the NFL Full Ticket and that cost me an extra $400.00 per year. When that was lost to You Tube, I pulled the trigger and went streaming only.

I now get Hulu for all of the live TV programming which also came with Disney and ESPN+. I supplement that with HBO Max, Paramount+ and Amazon Prime and I now pay $50.00 less per month with access to stuff I actually want to watch.

I bought a 65" Roku TV that has everything built in and operates using one (1) remote. The picture quality is fantastic, navigation between streaming services is a breeze and the TV itself was under $400.00 plus the $30.00 Roku plug-in for my bedroom TV.

You and Jammer should make the leap and never look back.

 

[jamiche]

I hate change as much as anyone and was slightly intimidated by the technical aspects of streaming services. I was paying Direct TV $160.00 per month and that included no movie channels or upgrades outside of the basic expanded channel package.

Honestly, the only reason I stayed with them was for the NFL Full Ticket and that cost me an extra $400.00 per year. When that was lost to You Tube, I pulled the trigger and went streaming only.

I now get Hulu for all of the live TV programming which also came with Disney and ESPN+. I supplement that with HBO Max, Paramount+ and Amazon Prime and I now pay $50.00 less per month with access to stuff I actually want to watch.

I bought a 65" Roku TV that has everything built in and operates using one (1) remote. The picture quality is fantastic, navigation between streaming services is a breeze and the TV itself was under $400.00 plus the $30.00 Roku plug-in for my bedroom TV.

You and Jammer should make the leap and never look back.

How do you access live local teams? That's the only reason I've kept cable. Other than live sports, 90-95% of what I watch is streamed.

Many years ago, when Comcast got into a contract dispute with whatever company was carrying the gophers and, I think, the wolves, at the time, I dropped cable and installed the first generation HD dish with Direct TV in order to watch both teams. It happened to be January. Within three days the dish was frozen solid. No signal. On day four I was back with Comcast.

 

[Slim Tubby]

How do you access live local teams? That's the only reason I've kept cable. Other than live sports, 90-95% of what I watch is streamed.

Many years ago, when Comcast got into a contract dispute with whatever company was carrying the gophers and, I think, the wolves, at the time, I dropped cable and installed the first generation HD dish with Direct TV in order to watch both teams. It happened to be January. Within three days the dish was frozen solid. No signal. On day four I was back with Comcast.

You could stream Bally's for $19.95 per month which is $10.00 too much IMO. I only had it from Oct - May to watch Gopher Hockey, Wolves and the Wild. I don't watch much TV in the summer to warrant having it from Jun - Aug and I sure as heck wouldn't commit 3 hours a day to watching the Twins but that's just me.

 

[howeda7]

You have a cable box.

They will be integrating all these apps into the cable box. If they’re smart, they’ll figure it a way to completely integrate those into the guide. But at the very least, there will be a top level interface where your normal cable (guide) will be one “app” that you can select, and then all the other apps will be there to select.

There will surely be an app where you can put your favorite teams in and it will find their games for you. This already exists to some extent.

 

[Gophers_4life]

How do you access live local teams? That's the only reason I've kept cable. Other than live sports, 90-95% of what I watch is streamed.

Right, this is the whole thing of the thread. How do you get Bally's.

Hopefully the RSN model goes under and the leagues ensure that games are on all the normal live TV channel bundle providers in some form going forward.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Well, a bit of an update - apparently Diamond has made its next scheduled payment to the Texas Rangers. And Texas' deal is for roughly twice as much as the Twins' deal. the difference is that the Texas deal has several years left on its contract, whereas the Twins' deal is done after this season.

sounds like payments are due to the Twins, Guardians and Diamondbacks on July 1st. there is typically a grace period with this type of payment - but I don't know how that is impacted by the bankruptcy court.

was listening to the 'Marchand and Ourand' Sports Media podcast. they discussed the issue, and said if they had to guess, they thought Diamond was probably less likely to make the Twins' payment - because it's the last year of the contract and the Twins are probably not going to do another deal with Diamond after taking them to court.

Marchand and Ourand also said MLB did a good job with the Padres of securing new deals and putting on a quality broadcast after MLB took over the Padres' rights from Diamond.

 

[howeda7]

Twins are probably not going to do another deal with Diamond after taking them to court.

Per an article in the Athletic recently, the Twins have already said this is their last season on Bally's. Apparently Diamond offered them a one-year extension and they said no.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I just don't believe that if they miss payments to any of the three on July 1, that games on or immediately after July 1 will be on an MLB channel.

I don't believe that the world works that way. I believe that the richest people who can pay the best lawyers and pay to be in the pocket of politicians, get to manipulate the world as they see fit (within reason, and sometimes completely unreasonably).


I reserve the right to be stunned. But I am fully anticipating that Bally's will stiff the Twins and yet get to broadcast Twins games for the rest of the season.

 

[howeda7]

I just don't believe that if they miss payments to any of the three on July 1, that games on or immediately after July 1 will be on an MLB channel.

I don't believe that the world works that way. I believe that the richest people who can pay the best lawyers and pay to be in the pocket of politicians, get to manipulate the world as they see fit (within reason, and sometimes completely unreasonably).


I reserve the right to be stunned. But I am fully anticipating that Bally's will stiff the Twins and yet get to broadcast Twins games for the rest of the season.

They've already been paying most of it. Unlikely they're just going to pay nothing. If they do, the Twins will likely get a pretty quick emergency hearing to leave.

 

[Gophers_4life]

They've already been paying most of it. Unlikely they're just going to pay nothing.

They consider it to be an overvalued contract. They didn't make the last required payment, I don't see why they'd change their mind just because the judge said they had to pay the full amount eventually.

If they do, the Twins will likely get a pretty quick emergency hearing to leave.

HA! You think that.

I will assume this does not happen, until it does.

 

[howeda7]

They consider it to be an overvalued contract. They didn't make the last required payment, I don't see why they'd change their mind just because the judge said they had to pay the full amount eventually.

I believe they have made each required payment just at ~80% not the full amount. My guess is they will do that again and stall on the shortage. The Twins aren't likely to do better than 80% of $40 million taking it over, so they'll probably let it ride for now and try to get the rest later.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I believe they have made each required payment just at ~80% not the full amount. My guess is they will do that again and stall on the shortage. The Twins aren't likely to do better than 80% of $40 million taking it over, so they'll probably let it ride for now and try to get the rest later.

"Just one day prior to the April 1 due date for the first 2023 installment of the fees due to the Clubs, the Debtor RSNs informed the Guardians and the Twins that the Debtor RSNs would not be making the required payments," the motion reads. "The Debtor RSNs made this decision even though they continue to use the Clubs' valuable intellectual property every day. By continuing to broadcast Guardians and Twins games, they generate postpetition revenue, yet boldly refuse to pay the Clubs."

This reads like 0% for April 1 payment. I'll assume again 0% for Jul 1 payment.

 

[howeda7]

"Just one day prior to the April 1 due date for the first 2023 installment of the fees due to the Clubs, the Debtor RSNs informed the Guardians and the Twins that the Debtor RSNs would not be making the required payments," the motion reads. "The Debtor RSNs made this decision even though they continue to use the Clubs' valuable intellectual property every day. By continuing to broadcast Guardians and Twins games, they generate postpetition revenue, yet boldly refuse to pay the Clubs."

This reads like 0% for April 1 payment. I'll assume again 0% for Jul 1 payment.

I'm not sure the date/source since you didn't give one. They did miss the payment, but I believe they have since caught up.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I'm not sure the date/source since you didn't give one.

That's from the emergency motion that MLB filed when Diamond let the teams know they weren't going to make the payments.

They did miss the payment, but I believe they have since caught up.

Source please

I suspect what you're conflating here is that most of the payments have been made to the Twins over the life of the 12 year contract. But once they decided to go all in on bankruptcy, they said F that we ain't paying.

 

[Iceland12]

Just want to note that this was posted on 1/8/2022. Now it's about a year and a half later and things are still up in the air.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

to the best of my knowledge - and I have read everything I can find on the internet about this matter --

when Diamond went into bankruptcy, and the 1st required payments (April 1) were missed, MLB filed its motion with the bankruptcy judge. Initially, the Judge ruled that Diamond had to pay 75% of what was in the contract, until further hearings could be held.

after those subsequent hearings, the Judge ordered Diamond to pay 100% of the contract for the 2023 season. so if Diamond doesn't make a required payment in full, they would be in violation of a Judicial order.

I did read that Diamond has since made full payment on the 1st quarterly payment - the April 1st payment.

and now we come up to the July 1 payment. note - there is (I believe) a 15-day grace period, so assuming that is not impacted by the bankruptcy proceedings, the real drop-dead date is July 15.

here we come to some speculation: when the San Diego Padres' RSN missed their payment deadline, MLB stepped in and immediately took over the broadcast of the games. Now, this is a slightly different situation because the Padres had an ownership stake in the RSN, so they were not part of the bankruptcy proceeding.

but based on that example, and based on statements that MLB made in connection with the court hearings, I believe that IF Diamond does not make its full payment to the Twins by the deadline, then MLB would call for an immediate ruling by the Judge to order the rights forfeited.

for Howie - the 80% figure came from MLB. MLB said that IF Diamond forfeits its rights, then MLB is guaranteeing that the Twins will receive at least 80% of what they were supposed to get from the contract with Diamond.

 

[Gophers_4life]

after those subsequent hearings, the Judge ordered Diamond to pay 100% of the contract for the 2023 season.

Diamond is just a shell of company, designed to protect Sinclair.

It will cease to exist. No money to pay anything. Order all you want. How much blood can you squeeze from a turnip?

Does the judge have the authority to go after Sinclair directly, in that scenario??

so if Diamond doesn't make a required payment in full, they would be in violation of a Judicial order.

The order did not require them to make the Jul 1 payment. It just said they [IE, eventually] had to pay the full contract.

I did read that Diamond has since made full payment on the 1st quarterly payment - the April 1st payment.

OK, fair enough. Do you have the source for that? Thank you

and now we come up to the July 1 payment. note - there is (I believe) a 15-day grace period, so assuming that is not impacted by the bankruptcy proceedings, the real drop-dead date is July 15.

here we come to some speculation: when the San Diego Padres' RSN missed their payment deadline, MLB stepped in and immediately took over the broadcast of the games. Now, this is a slightly different situation because the Padres had an ownership stake in the RSN, so they were not part of the bankruptcy proceeding.

but based on that example, and based on statements that MLB made in connection with the court hearings, I believe that IF Diamond does not make its full payment to the Twins by the deadline, then MLB would call for an immediate ruling by the Judge to order the rights forfeited.

As you said yourself -- Padres are a completely different deal, legally. What happened there has zero bearing on the Twins deal.

MLB and the Twins can call until the cows come home. How quickly can the judge fit it onto his schedule? September?

 

[howeda7]

Diamond is just a shell of company, designed to protect Sinclair.

It will cease to exist. No money to pay anything. Order all you want. How much blood can you squeeze from a turnip?

Does the judge have the authority to go after Sinclair directly, in that scenario??

It's a subsidiary. But no, they probably can't go after Sinclaire directly.

OK, fair enough. Do you have the source for that? Thank you

ESPN notes that the Diamondbacks, Guardians, Rangers and Twins had already been paid 75 per cent of what they were owed by DSG as a means to hold them over until the conclusion of the hearing. Lopez ruled that the four teams can hold on to that money and that DSG needs to pay the remaining 25 per cent “in the ordinary course of business”.

MLB wins court ruling forcing Diamond Sports to pay for local rights deals - SportsPro

The Sinclair-owned Bally Sports-branded RSN operator has had its request to reevaluate its contracts denied.

www.sportspromedia.com

MLB and the Twins can call until the cows come home. How quickly can the judge fit it onto his schedule? September?

You're not asking for a new hearing, you're asking him to order enforcement of a ruling he already made.

 

[Gophers_4life]

It's a subsidiary. But no, they probably can't go after Sinclaire directly.

There you go. The obvious play then is to close shop and turn out of the lights at Diamond, stringing the Twins and the two others along long enough to do that, then turn around and say "sorry, no more money, byeee!"

ESPN notes that the Diamondbacks, Guardians, Rangers and Twins had already been paid 75 per cent of what they were owed by DSG as a means to hold them over until the conclusion of the hearing. Lopez ruled that the four teams can hold on to that money and that DSG needs to pay the remaining 25 per cent “in the ordinary course of business”.

MLB wins court ruling forcing Diamond Sports to pay for local rights deals - SportsPro

The Sinclair-owned Bally Sports-branded RSN operator has had its request to reevaluate its contracts denied.

www.sportspromedia.com

Thank you!!

75% of what? The entire remaining year of contract value owed to the Twins? Or of the missed April 1 payment?

If it's the entire year, then that's already more than they should've expected to have gotten. Just 5% shy of what MLB guaranteed as a backstop.

You're not asking for a new hearing, you're asking him to order enforcement of a ruling he already made.

His ruling only says they have to pay the 25%. It does not give a specific deadline of when that payment must be made.

"Your honor, we plan on making the final payments in the coming months."
"OK, great, sounds good."

Then the day after the season ends:
"To whom it may concern, we regret to inform you that Diamond Sports Group has ceased all operations and controls no remaining assets or capital, therefore it cannot make any additional payments to any party going forward. We wish you well on all future endeavors."

Done.

Can't go after Sinclair for the rest, as you said.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

teams with games on Bally receive 4 quarterly payments a year under their contract. April 1st is the due-date for the 1st payment of the year. July 1st is the date for the 2nd payment.

MLB & the Twins pursued legal action against Bally/Diamond when the 1st payment of the year was not made by the due date. That payment - according to published reports - has since been made.

(and don't ask me to "name the source." I've read dozens if not hundreds of articles about this issue from a variety of web sites and publications. I don't take notes - but I distinctly remember reading that the April 1st payment was made in full after the Judge ruled that Bally had to make 100% of its required payments.

Oh - here's something from "The TV Answer Man" - published June 9th:

In a motion filed this week, Diamond Sports has asked the judge for an emergency clarification on his June 1 ruling. The company acknowledges that it’s considering dropping more teams but wants to know that if it does, will it be reimbursed for payments already made. For example, if Diamond Sports decided to reject the Twins agreement on August 5, would it receive a portion of the payment it made on July 1. This is a key point because the agreement requires the RSN company to pay in advance for the games it will broadcast. Diamond Sports wants to be assured that it will get its money back if it pulls the plug before it broadcasts all the games it paid for.

(Update: A subsequent filing on June 2 by the judge says Diamond Sports has five business days from the order to make the payments. The company’s motion for clarification could pause the clock.)

so - have to pay in advance, and the Judge did set a firm deadline to make payments.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

some developments - involving Diamond Sports and the Arizona Diamondbacks:

via Shawn Medow of Sports Business:

Diamond Sports Group’s bankruptcy hearing on the regional sports network operator’s contract with Major League Baseball’s Arizona Diamondbacks has been adjourned until July 17.
Lawyers for DSG filed an emergency motion on June 22, asking the court to reject the company’s broadcast agreement with the Diamondbacks, effective June 30. The hearing was originally set for June 29 in Texas, but will now be held on July 17. The Diamondbacks will remain on DSG’s RSN, Bally Sports Arizona, until the case is resolved.

apparently the company and the team are trying to work out a deal. They issued a joint statement:

“Diamond Sports Group and the Arizona Diamondbacks have decided to postpone tomorrow’s hearing due to ongoing and positive discussions toward finding a solution,” the joint statement read. “During this time, Bally Sports Arizona will continue to broadcast D-backs games and fans will have the same televised access they have been able to enjoy from the beginning of the season.”

a reminder - next Diamond payments to the Twins and Guardians are due July 1st. normally, there is a 15-day grace period, but not sure if that is still in effect due to bankruptcy rules & regs.

 

[howeda7]

some developments - involving Diamond Sports and the Arizona Diamondbacks:

via Shawn Medow of Sports Business:




a reminder - next Diamond payments to the Twins and Guardians are due July 1st. normally, there is a 15-day grace period, but not sure if that is still in effect due to bankruptcy rules & regs.

RandBall seems to think not only will they stay on BSN for the rest of the season, there's a chance the Twins revisit doing an extension with them. It wouldn't shock me. Even at Bally's offer of $54 million, it's pretty hard to see how the Twins beat that distributing the games themselves.

It appears more likely the Twins will stay on Bally Sports North this season

If Diamond Sports plans to relinquish rights to show Twins games on Bally Sports North this season, it must file a motion by Saturday. As of now, it seems more likely than not that the Twins will be on BSN for at least the rest of 2023.

www.startribune.com