Sid: U averaged 10,675 fans per game last season in 16 games at Williams Arena. This season, it is averaging 9,888.

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bga1 said:
What year did they change the program so that you had to donate to have a seat with a back? Trace the attendance trend from there.
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That is one of the many factors, but it didn't happen until 2015 and attendance was dropping before then.
 


GoodasGold said:
Don’t be cheap.
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I have kept my season tickets for well over 30 years- so you are talking to the wrong customer. Others may have found it to be beyond their price range when considering that the games on are TV, the parking is a mess and the options are many. You can go to the games most nights and get street tickets for less than face value.
 

bga1 said:
What year did they change the program so that you had to donate to have a seat with a back? Trace the attendance trend from there.
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I don't think that the donations are a major part of the trend. The lower bowl chairbacks are either full or at least the tix have been sold. Very few are available to purchase on a per game basis. The vast majority of empty seats are the upper deck benches.

From the original post the number is down 787. To me at least half that is the student section. The other half I would guess is due to lack of Saturday games, midweek 8pm games, loss of big names Murphy & Coffey, and perhaps changes to mini packages.

Before they had 3 game mini-packs which I have bought for several years, this year it was 6 games. I passed.
 

The atmosphere was great even 10 years ago. In Tubby's final season we didn't have a single home game with fewer than 10k, 6/9 B1G home games were sellouts, and no B1G home game had attendance lower than 12,500. (And I'm not blaming that entirely on Pitino. There are a bunch of other factors that have nothing to do with him.)

Blaming something from 20+ years ago is a lazy excuse with zero factual basis.
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The atmosphere during Tubbys tenure was not even on the same level with the Barn in the 90's. Not close.

You may not want to believe it but the hammer that dropped on the U of MN destroyed the program for the better part of 2 decades.
 


Attendance 1/2 way through the season should be lower per game than the previous years per game.

Why? Well, for starters, conference play later in the year. Conference games like wisconsin, Iowa, Maryland will almost always outdraw games against Cleveland St, Central Michigan and FIU. So in the end, last years and this years numbers should be super similar.
 

I'm old enough to remember when Musselman had the Barn rocking for pre-game warmups. The place was full to watch players warm up!

The issue with current attendance is price of tickets and (relative) lack of success. for better or worse, the Twin Cities' market is fickle. You win, people jump on the bandwagon. Don't win, and they jump off the bandwagon. I've seen this happen with every team in town.

The real question for the Gopher Administration - which they will never answer -
would they rather have 9,500 people paying the current prices, or 12,000 people paying lower prices?
I have a sneaky feeling that they would choose the former over the latter option.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Attendance 1/2 way through the season should be lower per game than the previous years per game.

Why? Well, for starters, conference play later in the year. Conference games like wisconsin, Iowa, Maryland will almost always outdraw games against Cleveland St, Central Michigan and FIU. So in the end, last years and this years numbers should be super similar.
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Actually the FIU game drew more than the Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St and Nortwestern games. It was only about 700 less than Wisconsin.

FIU was on a Saturday.

Of the 4 games left, the Iowa game looks like it will certainly raise the average just eyballing how many tix are left. While plentiful, I would say that should get 13,000 in the seats. I am guessing there will be a lot of black and gold in the crowd.

The other 3 remaining games (Indiana, Maryland & Nebraska) as of now would likely lower the current average. Tons of Upper Deck seats left and even a good supply of Lowers.

Also, my earlier post I should have listed getting off to a slow start in out of conference games as being one of the primary reasons for the drop compared to last year.
 

gophereric30 said:
That is so weak. The gophers are in the ncaa conversation pretty much every year. Dont make it every year but pretty much in the conversation every year. No reason not to show up. Play in the best conference in college basketball. No excuse not to show up in a city of like 500 thousand.
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Prices have to come down. Flat out. They charge way too much. Check out Michigan State's prices to see a game at Breslin. Here you get to watch a final four contender year in and year out. They charge a third less than what the U does.
 



Go Gophs said:
Prices have to come down. Flat out. They charge way too much. Check out Michigan State's prices to see a game at Breslin. Here you get to watch a final four contender year in and year out. They charge a third less than what the U does.
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And...they compete against zero pro sports teams for the sports entertainment dollars.

I think that the U has gone about things backwards as far as building a fan base. Let the people in at a more reasonable price. Make fans of them. Give the students prime bench seats 360 degrees around the full court the first 5 or six rows as Built said. A full arena gives the home team better support and the team eventually wins more. Then you make more money on the backside off of apparel, concessions, etc.
 

bga1 said:
And...they compete against zero pro sports teams for the sports entertainment dollars.

I think that the U has gone about things backwards as far as building a fan base. Let the people in at a more reasonable price. Make fans of them. Give the students prime bench seats 360 degrees around the full court the first 5 or six rows as Built said. A full arena gives the home team better support and the team eventually wins more. Then you make more money on the backside off of apparel, concessions, etc.
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Michigan St most certainly competes with Detroit pro-sports teams especially for corporate dollars (& Michigan as well as several other D1 programs). East Lansing is only 90 miles from downtown.
 

Ope3 said:
Michigan St most certainly competes with Detroit pro-sports teams especially for corporate dollars (& Michigan as well as several other D1 programs). East Lansing is only 90 miles from downtown.
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I agree our prices for upper deck conference seats should come down from 45 to around 20
 

GopherBlood666 said:
I agree our prices for upper deck conference seats should come down from 45 to around 20
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Good call. Or even $30 for adults and $15 for kids. Need to get more kids to the games. Season ticket buyers of the future.
 



GopherBlood666 said:
I agree our prices for upper deck conference seats should come down from 45 to around 20
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Yes, at least that. Students should get in FREE or 5 bucks. Upper deck should be 15 bucks and the better seats 25-50.

They wonder why its all old people in there anymore. That is all that can afford it. Retired folks. Families have a hard time affording it for sure, and students as well I'm sure.

Once you start to win more then go ahead and pump up the prices a bit. Still the students should get in for little to nothing though. They are who will build the atmosphere and also the people that are likely to get hooked and come back even after they have graduated.
 

Most of the people I know who dropped season tickets don't say price is the #1 reason. A few yea, but that doesn't account for all of it. (Remember, prices on a lot of seats dropped going into this season.) The most common reason seems to be that most don't think there is a big difference between attending the game vs. watching it on a 60-inch TV on their couch. That and there just seems to be a general lack of enthusiasm about the program for a variety of reasons.

I think that's why it's so hard to combat. Lowering prices alone, even significantly, isn't enough. There are a ton of different factors, and it's hard to tackle all of them at once.
 

bizzle22 said:
Most of the people I know who dropped season tickets don't say price is the #1 reason. A few yea, but that doesn't account for all of it. (Remember, prices on a lot of seats dropped going into this season.) The most common reason seems to be that most don't think there is a big difference between attending the game vs. watching it on a 60-inch TV on their couch. That and there just seems to be a general lack of enthusiasm about the program for a variety of reasons.

I think that's why it's so hard to combat. Lowering prices alone, even significantly, isn't enough. There are a ton of different factors, and it's hard to tackle all of them at once.
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Winning brings people in.
 


Go Gophs said:
Prices have to come down. Flat out.
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100% this.

Those in charge at the U are more interested in milking every cent they can, meaning let's charge $50 per ticket and sell 2000 upper deck seats instead of charging $20 per ticket and selling 4000 upper deck seats.

So, they bleed the few Gopher fans they have for all the money they can, they fail to cultivate any younger, new fans by pricing them out of market, and worst of all, they make sure to create a crappy atmosphere with thousands of empty seats showing up on TV and giving our team and coach a lesser chance to win the game.

Its a shame they have become nothing more than prisoners to auditors and accountants. Winning and promotion be damned.
 

A lot of people said TCF was empty because the tickets were overpriced. Then the football team started having success last season and the place filled up without a price reduction.
 

GopherVotary said:
A lot of people said TCF was empty because the tickets were overpriced. Then the football team started having success last season and the place filled up without a price reduction.
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Tickets were overpriced. That explains why they had to work so damned hard and right up until 40 hours before kickoff before the biggest game in the history of the facility was sold out. Plus, they had to do a few tricks to get it sold out, filling in the expensive seats with some of the roaming ticket holders, etc.

Obviously, winning helps. But, overpricing your product has been a big mistake with this group. A big problem.

When and if they ever build a new basketball arena, they better make is only 6,000 seats if they plan to keep the current 'bleed your fans for all the cash they have marketing approach.'
 

Moonlight said:
I think the issue here is that Pitino has brought a great university in a great city back to relevance but you dont believe he can get them the rest of the way there. We've risen enough for you to want to invest, but a great coach stands between you and the return you are looking for. But how to select the next great coach? Unfortunately, that's a tougher question.
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Someone (not me) probably can name names of coaches that could have a chance to do better, no guarantees, but a chance. Also have to factor in if we can actually get anyone on that list interested in this job.

I get it though, this is a good team right now and worthy of fan support, but it really looks like the wheels will fall off after this season if Oturu leaves early. If we are settling on being a bubble NCAA team 1-2 times every 4-5 years then the Barn will continue to empty. I think a lot of fans would rather chance it getting worse with a new coach, and hope it will get better, than stay the course.
 

I brought 7 folks to a non-conference game and we got crappy seats and I couldn't believe how much they were. I live in Colorado had season tix to CU for years...they were so much, much cheaper that it was affordable. The game I went to had lots of empty seats. It made no sense to me. Sell tickets at the price the market would bear. The product (entertainment value) is better not worse when the seats are filled. I for one will go to a game for a losing team if they play hard. But shelling out a ton of money won't make me go to a game I can watch on t.v. especially if the atmosphere isn't a packed stadium of screaming folks.
 

LakerFan said:
Someone (not me) probably can name names of coaches that could have a chance to do better, no guarantees, but a chance. Also have to factor in if we can actually get anyone on that list interested in this job.

I get it though, this is a good team right now and worthy of fan support, but it really looks like the wheels will fall off after this season if Oturu leaves early. If we are settling on being a bubble NCAA team 1-2 times every 4-5 years then the Barn will continue to empty. I think a lot of fans would rather chance it getting worse with a new coach, and hope it will get better, than stay the course.
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Oturu is amazing, perhaps a once in 20-30 year player for this program. But I don't feel that the wheels would fall off at all if he leaves. After last year, we lost the all time rebounder and a great player in Murphy in addition to a guy that is now getting minutes in the NBA in Coffey. Lot's of folks here said that we would be terrible. It turns out that this squad is a little better than last year's team (in my view) and much more fun to watch on both ends of the court.

Next year's team, without Oturu would have a really strong group of guards returning in Carr, Gabe, Willis, Mashburn (a great get), Williams and perhaps one more (Walton??). College buckets is normally a whole lot about the guards. Mitchell needs weight and strength but he is really, really talented at 6-10. Ihnen is going to be ready. Pitino's task would be to have Freeman ready to go and then add some talent at the PF/C positions.

If we get a new coach- it will get worse for a few years at least. There is almost no doubt about it. There are no guarantees out there where the grass appears greener. Pitino is something like 37-38 years old, is coaching better and recruiting better than he did a few years back. I think we make the tournament and this becomes a moot point, but if we don't I think it is still a very, very tough call for the AD.

Also, remember that this program which has often struggled academically now has a bunch of really, good students on the team and a GPA that I think is over 3.0. The improvements in how we are playing, the academics, the character of the kids now in the program, the recent success of putting a couple kids in the NBA are all going to play in Pitino's favor. I think this year has been his best coaching job.

Here's one more thought. Imagine this scenario. We get to the end of the year and we are 10-10 or 9-11 and we don't get in. Oturu decides to go into the draft portal for a look see but he doesn't hire agent, he's just testing the market. If you are Coyle are you gonna fire the coach right after the season if you think that might be a deciding factor in Oturu's decision? I doubt it.
 

tjgopher said:
Tens of millions?
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He's not wrong about that. At the current prices (which are too high) the difference between 10,000 per game and 14,500 per game is probably 3 million per year, just on the ticket sales. Then you have concessions and other things. Total impact per year could be 5 million plus. Take that over a number of years and it really adds up. As he says- the key is to win and then they come. No coach, short of hiring one of the top 5 guys in the country as a name brand hire, is going to change the attendance significantly. They will have to win first. Who can do it faster? Pitino or some other coach? My bet would still be on Pitino. However, I trust Coyle.
 

tjgopher said:
Tens of millions?
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Do the math on empty seats, loss of merchandise, big Donations go down. When you win big the place is full and people pay more to go. There are programs getting 250,000 for court side as a onetime donation then the price of the tickets. These places have donors who provide annuities for coaches, they contribute more to the endowment when there is athletic success. Just in ticket sales alone do the math. Top 10 programs sell seats. Winning teams in every sport sell tickets, everyone loves a winner.
 

My son and son in law and grandchildren went to the WI/MN game. My son and his family have season tickets for the Loons. Both adults who can afford the tickets and attend other games in other venues were surprised at how expensive the seats were.
 

bga1 said:
Oturu is amazing, perhaps a once in 20-30 year player for this program. But I don't feel that the wheels would fall off at all if he leaves. After last year, we lost the all time rebounder and a great player in Murphy in addition to a guy that is now getting minutes in the NBA in Coffey. Lot's of folks here said that we would be terrible. It turns out that this squad is a little better than last year's team (in my view) and much more fun to watch on both ends of the court.
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I think we had 4 scoring options last year that kept defenses playing honest. When Gabe struggles this year, which is often, we have had 2 and teams that effectively take away one of those 2 beat us. I think Oturu (this year) is out playing Murphy (last year) but I wouldn't say we are a better team this year.

Next year's team, without Oturu would have a really strong group of guards returning in Carr, Gabe, Willis, Mashburn (a great get), Williams and perhaps one more (Walton??). College buckets is normally a whole lot about the guards. Mitchell needs weight and strength but he is really, really talented at 6-10. Ihnen is going to be ready. Pitino's task would be to have Freeman ready to go and then add some talent at the PF/C positions.
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Projecting Mashburn or a Mashburn/Williams/Mystery as an effective replacement for losing what Oturu does now is an over reach. Gabe is either plateau'd or regressing. Willis rarely can make up for Gabe struggling this year. Projecting guys to get stronger and bigger also rarely works out in college basketball.

If we get a new coach- it will get worse for a few years at least. There is almost no doubt about it. There are no guarantees out there where the grass appears greener. Pitino is something like 37-38 years old, is coaching better and recruiting better than he did a few years back. I think we make the tournament and this becomes a moot point, but if we don't I think it is still a very, very tough call for the AD.
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Agreed if we make the tourney and win a game it's a tough decision. If they miss the tourney and the AD agrees with me that next year looks worse than this year, you have a two year trend in the wrong direction deep into a coaches time here and if you wait until the end of 2021 you might have waited too long.

Also, remember that this program which has often struggled academically now has a bunch of really, good students on the team and a GPA that I think is over 3.0. The improvements in how we are playing, the academics, the character of the kids now in the program, the recent success of putting a couple kids in the NBA are all going to play in Pitino's favor. I think this year has been his best coaching job.

Here's one more thought. Imagine this scenario. We get to the end of the year and we are 10-10 or 9-11 and we don't get in. Oturu decides to go into the draft portal for a look see but he doesn't hire agent, he's just testing the market. If you are Coyle are you gonna fire the coach right after the season if you think that might be a deciding factor in Oturu's decision? I doubt it.
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I really think Oturu is gone and will announce he is gone as soon as the season is over. Nothing about his game or personality makes me think he would humble himself and say he isn't ready for the NBA. If your projecting as a first rounder, i think your crazy to not leave anyway.

I do think it will come down to making the tournament, and how good a candidate for a replacement Coyle has lined up prior to that time.
 

Couple of other factors besides ticket prices(yes a bit too high for upper deck behind baselines) and game times(too many 8pm games). Though we moved away from Twin Cities last year, we have two kids and trying to park anywhere close to the Barn is part of the reason that makes bringing kids so hard. They need to dedicate so place to drop people off close to Williams. My wife would have to play centipede with two young kids to avoid cars when I tried to drop them off. Then I have to park on the other side of TCF to park and walk(which I don't mind, but at the end of the game it's hard to walk that far with a 6 year old and a 3 year old). Combine that with lack of 6pm weeknight games and very few Saturday or Sunday afternoon games and you see why it's not as family friendly as it should be. Once we are all inside, the kids had a blast. We are planning on going to the Northwestern game in Evanston on the 23rd. BTW we went to a women's Northwestern game in November and the renovation they did to Welsh-Ryan is awesome, went from a dump to fun place to go with plenty of room in concourses and concession areas. The U should take a good look at that and see what the possibilities could be.
 

I’d like to see Gabe get bigger. Maybe 2-3” in height, and 20-30 lbs muscle. That’s reasonable isn’t it?
 

For me it is too early to ponder a coaching change, not the 6 year eval because I expect the 7th to end very well.
 

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