Sid Hartman: Quarterback sleeper for U

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Quarterback sleeper for U

No doubt the Gophers will go as far as their quarterback will take them, even though last year the defense probably should get credit for the 8-4 record. Coach Jerry Kill said Mitch Leidner is the No. 1 QB and Chris Streveler will back him up, but Kill said the kid who has really surprised them is a walk-on named Jacques Perra from Roseville.

“He had a little bit of arm problems in the spring, so he didn’t get a chance to play in the spring game, which I wanted to see how he would do,” Kill said. “We have the true freshman [Demry Croft] who has all kinds of athletic ability but we have to get him on the field to see that. Then we have a kid who is committed that I hope we can hold on to, because he is special. I think that we’re sitting fine.

“The biggest thing is taking Mitch from where he was this past year and taking it one more step. We brought [former Gophers QB] Adam Weber in. I look for him to do good things. I feel good about Chris, he has improved a lot. I think we’ll be all right there. The biggest thing is who we put around them, and I think we’ve put some people around them that can help us be more explosive and be able to make some plays. You look at the kid who won the national title at Ohio State [Cardale Jones] and he threw the ball downfield, sometimes into double coverage, but it didn’t matter. They had people just go up and get it. We have to have some playmakers, and we’ve worked hard to get some playmakers.”

http://www.startribune.com/hartman-twins-are-well-armed-to-compete-molitor-says/313974791/

Go Gophers!!
 

It isn't all about getting seperation. It is about getting the ball. Decker was great at that. Who will be next?
 

The biggest key for the QB is reading the defense. This offense is predicated on pounding the rock. Forcing the strong safety into the box to stop it. That leaves the free safety and the two corners. Do the play man and the free safety deep over the top? If that is the read can you hit the 15 yard dig route, the quick slant, possibly a drag route by the tight end? Those are the throws out of play action. If you find you have guessed or read correctly a double move could be the answer. A post corner puts the safety in the trail position. This is a 25 to 40 yard throw. Its so much more than how tight the spiral is. Its more about great reading skills and execution. Whomever QB's a Kill Coach team will have opportunities to throw the ball, but make no mistake this will never be an air raid offense. The bottom line for the QB is completion percentage or at the very minimum completions in a row. I would like to see the QB complete somewhere between 58-60% on maybe 18 throws a game. If he accomplishes that and we run the ball 45+ times the offense will be just fine.
 

Well, up to this point, Leidner's MO is as a low-completion % QB who also seems to hit a few big downfield passes every game. The question is whether he can re-invent himself as a high-completion % passer who can show a better touch on the short and intermediate throws.

I'm not saying he will - I'm not saying he won't. I will reserve judgement until I see what happens this fall. But, up to now, Leidner seems to be more of a go-for-broke type of player. Turning him into a more controlled passer will represent one of the bigger challenges that this coaching staff will have dealt with at MN.
 

We hear about the walk-on Perra and he perks interest.
I know that a team is allowed 5 "preffered" walk-ons.
My question is: Just what does a "preffered" get?
Also, usually walk-ons end up on the scout team and as a reward get to make a road trip when seniors.
Perra seems to be a notch above this. Is there a possibility that he will see extensive playing time and a full scholarship?
 


husker70 said:
The biggest key for the QB is reading the defense. This offense is predicated on pounding the rock. Forcing the strong safety into the box to stop it. That leaves the free safety and the two corners. Do the play man and the free safety deep over the top? If that is the read can you hit the 15 yard dig route, the quick slant, possibly a drag route by the tight end? Those are the throws out of play action. If you find you have guessed or read correctly a double move could be the answer. A post corner puts the safety in the trail position. This is a 25 to 40 yard throw. Its so much more than how tight the spiral is. Its more about great reading skills and execution. Whomever QB's a Kill Coach team will have opportunities to throw the ball, but make no mistake this will never be an air raid offense. The bottom line for the QB is completion percentage or at the very minimum completions in a row. I would like to see the QB complete somewhere between 58-60% on maybe 18 throws a game. If he accomplishes that and we run the ball 45+ times the offense will be just fine.
Click to expand...

Great post. I would add that for me a QBs efficacy starts with accuracy. Leidner has the ability to be accurate, but he has shown he needs a little more time to read the field and step into his throw. He has looked discombobulated and uncomfortable to the point he had difficulty with 6 yard throws at times. Sometime poor throws and decisions were his fault and sometimes prompted because of poor line protection. We need the line to make a step this year and we need Leidner to calm down and have better pocket awareness. I expect both to happen based on what we're seeing and hearing.
 

Rog said:
We hear about the walk-on Perra and he perks interest.
I know that a team is allowed 5 "preffered" walk-ons.
My question is: Just what does a "preffered" get?
Also, usually walk-ons end up on the scout team and as a reward get to make a road trip when seniors.
Perra seems to be a notch above this. Is there a possibility that he will see extensive playing time and a full scholarship?
Click to expand...
First your wrong on the number of preferred walk-ons. Here's how it works, teams are allowed to invite 105 players to camp before school starts. A preferred walk-on has a guaranteed roster spot for camp. With 85 scholarship players, that leaves 20 roster spots for walk-ons, but it can be higher, if some of the scholarship spots aren't used on the camp roster due to injury rehab or unused scholarships.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Great post. I would add that for me a QBs efficacy starts with accuracy. Leidner has the ability to be accurate, but he has shown he needs a little more time to read the field and step into his throw. He has looked discombobulated and uncomfortable to the point he had difficulty with 6 yard throws at times. Sometime poor throws and decisions were his fault and sometimes prompted because of poor line protection. We need the line to make a step this year and we need Leidner to calm down and have better pocket awareness. I expect both to happen based on what we're seeing and hearing.
Click to expand...

The timing off play action is critical. It's fake 1,2, and throw. This is when the receiver is open. Where Leidner seems to have trouble and we have seen it with other QB's is when the throw is meant to be out of the QB's hand he is still looking and the defense recovers, the route is no longer open. He then is scrambling, both in body and mind. Looking for a dump off or check down he is no longer in rhythm and does not step into the throw. He is high and outside with his throws, or short and wide of the receiver. A touch throw over a charging lineman, impossible.
He and the receivers need to be on time, and trust the throw. That will eliminate all the other stuff. And if his best throws are deep down the field, then bombs away. And eliminate the side line fade.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Well, up to this point, Leidner's MO is as a low-completion % QB who also seems to hit a few big downfield passes every game. The question is whether he can re-invent himself as a high-completion % passer who can show a better touch on the short and intermediate throws.

I'm not saying he will - I'm not saying he won't. I will reserve judgement until I see what happens this fall. But, up to now, Leidner seems to be more of a go-for-broke type of player. Turning him into a more controlled passer will represent one of the bigger challenges that this coaching staff will have dealt with at MN.
Click to expand...

What NFL QB completed only 50.1% of his passes, threw 173 TD passes and 220 interceptions, and was unanimously inducted in the Hall of Fame?

Joe Namath. You win, and nobody cares how. Namath doesn't win SB III and he's remembered as another dopey New York athlete.
 



husker70 said:
The timing off play action is critical. It's fake 1,2, and throw. This is when the receiver is open. Where Leidner seems to have trouble and we have seen it with other QB's is when the throw is meant to be out of the QB's hand he is still looking and the defense recovers, the route is no longer open. He then is scrambling, both in body and mind. Looking for a dump off or check down he is no longer in rhythm and does not step into the throw. He is high and outside with his throws, or short and wide of the receiver. A touch throw over a charging lineman, impossible.
He and the receivers need to be on time, and trust the throw. That will eliminate all the other stuff. And if his best throws are deep down the field, then bombs away. And eliminate the side line fade.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much of this is Kill hammering on not turning the ball over (which to a point is a good thing but Leidner is tied a little tighter than some). How does Leidner get to that point where he trusts a covered receiver to go get the ball? Cardale Jones was heaving it up with reckless abandon and Devin Smith and Co made him look good.

So many integral parts have to work together to make it go.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I wonder how much of this is Kill hammering on not turning the ball over (which to a point is a good thing but Leidner is tied a little tighter than some). How does Leidner get to that point where he trusts a covered receiver to go get the ball? Cardale Jones was heaving it up with reckless abandon and Devin Smith and Co made him look good.

So many integral parts have to work together to make it go.
Click to expand...

Sure, you can apply sound logic if you want to, but most prefer to cherry-pick a stat or two that supports their narrative. Liedner sucks (comp %), Brewster can recruit (recruiting rankings), Weber was a star (4-year starter), and so on. Sure nothing is really that simple, but it sure makes life easier to look at it that way.
 

highwayman said:
What NFL QB completed only 50.1% of his passes, threw 173 TD passes and 220 interceptions, and was unanimously inducted in the Hall of Fame?

Joe Namath. You win, and nobody cares how. Namath doesn't win SB III and he's remembered as another dopey New York athlete.
Click to expand...

As the saying goes, history is written by the victors.
 

highwayman said:
What NFL QB completed only 50.1% of his passes, threw 173 TD passes and 220 interceptions, and was unanimously inducted in the Hall of Fame?

Joe Namath. You win, and nobody cares how. Namath doesn't win SB III and he's remembered as another dopey New York athlete.
Click to expand...

NO
 



chicken and egg

Pompous Elitist said:
I wonder how much of this is Kill hammering on not turning the ball over (which to a point is a good thing but Leidner is tied a little tighter than some). How does Leidner get to that point where he trusts a covered receiver to go get the ball? Cardale Jones was heaving it up with reckless abandon and Devin Smith and Co made him look good.

So many integral parts have to work together to make it go.
Click to expand...

We haven't had a receiver other than Maxx with either the mindset or strength to go get the ball without getting out muscled by the defender. It's not a quarterback thing. Just listen to the coach...we need receivers to make plays.
 

Leidner to Manning camp

With Leidner being allowed to go to the Manning camp this summer, does anyone know if he gets to take a receiver or two with him - to start building timing and rapport then - or does he have to wait till he returns to work with his receivers?
 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Manning Camp is for high school kids and the college QBs serve as counselors.

It will surely help his timing if there isn't a DT in his grill; see TCU 2014.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Manning Camp is for high school kids and the college QBs serve as counselors.
Click to expand...
You are correct Here's what was written in the New Orleans newspaper.
The college counselor phenomenon took hold about a decade ago. As word of mouth about the Manning camp experience grew in quarterback circles, more and more of them sought invitations to serve as counselors. It was a unique chance to work on your skills, measure your game against your peers and pick the brains of a pair of NFL superstars, Eli and Peyton.
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/07/manning_passing_academy_is_spe.html
 


What's the last good Gopher QB? Sandy Stephens or John Hankinson? Rickie Foggie?
 

Ragpile said:
What's the last good Gopher QB? Sandy Stephens or John Hankinson? Rickie Foggie?
Click to expand...

Depends on what you mean by "good". Sandy Stephens wasn't even particularly "good" statistically, just remembered fondly because of the Rose Bowl appearances, national championship, and being one of the first (or was he the very first?) black QBs in major college football. Statistically, our best QB in many, many years was Bryan Cupito, but that's damning with faint praise - sort of like labeling someone the best-looking coed at Madison.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I wonder how much of this is Kill hammering on not turning the ball over (which to a point is a good thing but Leidner is tied a little tighter than some). How does Leidner get to that point where he trusts a covered receiver to go get the ball? Cardale Jones was heaving it up with reckless abandon and Devin Smith and Co made him look good.

So many integral parts have to work together to make it go.
Click to expand...

As soon as our receivers show the ability to go get the ball.
 

Stephens was All American as I recall and I may recall wrong--it has been, what, 54 years, the better part of a century.
 

Stephens was an all-American and played both ways.

No other Gopher QB has been close to that. Would he be an AA today...no, different game back then.

Don't leave Hoensee out of the discussion.
 

Foggie had the ability to change a game and take it to the house every play. He was the most exciting Qb in my lifetime.
 

I watched some of the old games posted here and on you tube specifically to see Sandy Stephens play. I saw him return a punt and he looked fine throwing the ball. He gets my vote as the last really good Gopher QB. My first memory of the Gophers and QB's is of Tony Dungy throwing to Rick Upchurch. After those years I would say that Foggie is the most exciting but he was not All American.
 


highwayman said:
What NFL QB completed only 50.1% of his passes, threw 173 TD passes and 220 interceptions, and was unanimously inducted in the Hall of Fame?

Joe Namath. You win, and nobody cares how. Namath doesn't win SB III and he's remembered as another dopey New York athlete.
Click to expand...

Different era. A QB in today's game in the NFL with a 50% completion rate and more INT's than TD's would not last very long. Look at Fran Tarkenton's career stats, and compare them to a modern-era QB. Today's game stresses avoiding turnovers, and high(er) completion percentages.

Even in College FB, given a choice, I believe most coaches would prefer a higher completion percentage and fewer turnovers. I'm not saying Leidner is a bad QB - I'm just saying that the Gopher offense would benefit from fewer incomplete passes.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Different era. A QB in today's game in the NFL with a 50% completion rate and more INT's than TD's would not last very long. Look at Fran Tarkenton's career stats, and compare them to a modern-era QB. Today's game stresses avoiding turnovers, and high(er) completion percentages.

Even in College FB, given a choice, I believe most coaches would prefer a higher completion percentage and fewer turnovers. I'm not saying Leidner is a bad QB - I'm just saying that the Gopher offense would benefit from fewer incomplete passes.
Click to expand...

By god I think you are on to something!:rolleyes:
 

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