Sid Hartman: Don't rip Leidner, he's a winner for Gophers

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Intangibles only get you so far. Teammates will rally around a guy who can throw a consistent ball also. Just because the team expresses their approval of Leidner (What do you expect?), that doesn't mean he is the best option.

Leidner might be 11-7 but how many of those games did we really win because of him? How many of those games were against cupcakes who could have been beaten with just about anyone at QB?

Leidner definitely has his moments, but this is his 3rd season as a starting QB. Consistency is vital to win games, and he just doesn't provide any level of consistency in terms of passing the ball

The program has taken large strides under Kill, and in order to take the next step (winning a legit bowl game, or B1G West) an upgrade at the QB position is going to be necessary.
 

I do believe we have the quarterback of the future now in Croft, but the key word is future, he needs a year in the weight room to be physically ready for B1G play. I believe Croft will be second string next year, do mop up duty along with a few series here and there, then start as a RS sophomore.
 

Blackhammer said:
Not rattled? Key fourth and one fumbles the snap. Par for the course for him. He is an average at best QB but his poise or so called no getting ratttled is a joke. He is Barney Fife in the pocket.
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That is not what happened. Kill noted in his news conference that it was the center's fault due to a short snap, not Leidner's.
 

'13Gopher said:
Leidner's current situation reminds me somewhat of Tony Romo and/or Jay Cutler. Cutler flings the ball wherever and whenever he chooses, Romo can't play in the clutch very well.
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You do realize that Romo leads the entire NFL in 4th quarter comebacks since 2006? Romo-24, Peyton-21, and Eli-20 top the league.... Sounds rather clutch to me.... Just sayin
 

nsmike said:
I do believe we have the quarterback of the future now in Croft, but the key word is future, he needs a year in the weight room to be physically ready for B1G play. I believe Croft will be second string next year, do mop up duty along with a few series here and there, then start as a RS sophomore.
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Of course we can all understand why you think this way, but this is the exact type of thinking I was referring to earlier. This is exactly the same as last year when most folks were saying Jones was our running back "of the future". If it feels good to think this way, then so be it. But the kid may never figure it out. The kid has a great arm and great length. So what. He may never understand the system. He might be prone to throwing multiple interceptions. He may be susceptible to getting hurt each time he's sacked. To say he is the qb of the future just flies in the face of so much that has happened in the world of sports. Coach Kill three years ago said that he had found a real gem in Streveler. Coach Kill said yesterday that he has another big time qb in the wings that he can't talk about. How would you have any idea whether that unknown kid in the wings won't come in and surpass everyone? It's silly to go out on a limb and say Croft is the QB of the future.
 


Spoofin said:
Totally Agree. I can think of one poster, in particular, that isn't objective on this topic at all. Guess who?
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I'm sure the answer is "me". You've never liked me to begin with and never will. But I can live with that.
 

Rodney's Open said:
I don't want to get into a big thing about Leidner ...

... He's also lost us several games on his own.

I think Sid making this comment pretty much solidifies my point.
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No, please don't hold back. Perhaps if he "lost us several games on his own" you've figured it out! Stupid coaches should have put 10 other guys out there to help. Sid has probably forgotten more this year alone than you'll amass in your lifetime.
 

Blackhammer said:
Not rattled? Key fourth and one fumbles the snap. Par for the course for him. He is an average at best QB but his poise or so called no getting ratttled is a joke. He is Barney Fife in the pocket.
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Coach Kill said Bobeck short-armed the snap. Does your error nullify any validity your comments might have had?
 

DoubleAlum said:
Of course we can all understand why you think this way, but this is the exact type of thinking I was referring to earlier. This is exactly the same as last year when most folks were saying Jones was our running back "of the future". If it feels good to think this way, then so be it. But the kid may never figure it out. The kid has a great arm and great length. So what. He may never understand the system. He might be prone to throwing multiple interceptions. He may be susceptible to getting hurt each time he's sacked. To say he is the qb of the future just flies in the face of so much that has happened in the world of sports. Coach Kill three years ago said that he had found a real gem in Streveler. Coach Kill said yesterday that he has another big time qb in the wings that he can't talk about. How would you have any idea whether that unknown kid in the wings won't come in and surpass everyone? It's silly to go out on a limb and say Croft is the QB of the future.
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I like what I've seen so far, he doesn't show any deficiencies, other than needing to let his body mature. I can't say the same about Strevler, I was doubtful about him as a QB pretty early, I believe he's due for a position change. Perra and Rhoda both appear to be serviceable but not any better than Leidner. We had better hope that Croft is the QB of the future because there simply isn't a better alternative.
 



DoubleAlum said:
I agree with you. But so far it hasn't turned out that way. Just like the numerous guys who said Jeff Jones will be the best running back we've seen in years and is a beast among boys. That he will emerge as our number one back. All I'm saying is things aren't so easy to predict as people think. I just wish folks were more open to other possibilities. Nobody knows if Streveler could lead this team as well as or better than Mitch. Yet, 90% of the guys on here claim they absolutely KNOW he wouldn't. It's just frustrating to see how the most prolific contributors on here refuse to acknowledge that they have no more insight than anyone else and that they are often very wrong. It's as if they go through life with blinders on refusing to see how many thousands of times things don't turn out the way the masses think they will. How long does one need to live on this earth and observe these lessons over and over until they admit that things often have unpredictable outcomes.

A vast majority of people are predicting we'll be Kent state by 20 to 30 points and that because Illinois destroyed them we'll destroy them as well. Unfortunately, football doesn't work that way often times. Everyone is saying we'll be able to play our second and third stringers and give the starters a rest. Well, what if it doesn't go that way? Then what will these people say. "We're not as good as I thought"? How about putting some of that thought into the front-end before you make your prediction. Our o-line is hurting big time, our passing game comes and goes, our defense has a few injuries, our tight-ends are beat up. KJ Maye is hurting. Maybe this will be closer than everyone thinks.

In any event, you're right. It was just his opinion that Mitch would start on 1/3 of B1G teams and I shouldn't have been so sure he wouldn't.
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I don't think that is true. I think many people are just saying that they trust the coaches to make this decision. Of course coaches have been wrong before and they will continue to get things wrong in the future. But, of all the people in the world, they are the ones who should know who gives us the best chance to win.

I have my doubts that Streveler can be an every down QB, but I can't say for sure. He didn't look good passing the ball in his one start last year.
 

JZsportswhiz said:
Intangibles only get you so far. Teammates will rally around a guy who can throw a consistent ball also. Just because the team expresses their approval of Leidner (What do you expect?), that doesn't mean he is the best option.
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You are correct. At the same time though, just because fans aren't happy with Leidner's play doesn't mean he isn't the best option. I trust that the coaches have a better idea than we do.

Leidner might be 11-7 but how many of those games did we really win because of him? How many of those games were against cupcakes who could have been beaten with just about anyone at QB?
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I think it is a mix. There are some games we could have won with just about anyone at QB. There are some games he was a big reason we lost. And there are some games that he was a big reason we won. But he was never the only reason we won or lost in my opinion.

Leidner definitely has his moments, but this is his 3rd season as a starting QB. Consistency is vital to win games, and he just doesn't provide any level of consistency in terms of passing the ball

The program has taken large strides under Kill, and in order to take the next step (winning a legit bowl game, or B1G West) an upgrade at the QB position is going to be necessary.
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Agreed. I still believe there is a chance he can provide some kind of consistency. Others disagree and that is fine. Either way, I still think he is our best option right now. That may change a month, 2 months or a year from now.
 

Blackhammer said:
Not rattled? Key fourth and one fumbles the snap. Par for the course for him. He is an average at best QB but his poise or so called no getting ratttled is a joke. He is Barney Fife in the pocket.
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Kill said the center short-armed the snap on that play.

It's always Leidner's fault though according to some fans.
 

I just don't understand where all this negativity is coming from. So the offense has started off rocky. Didn't that also happen last year and the year before. Didn't Cobb get off to a slow start last year and the year before? The O line has taken time to gel in the past and the playbook definitely gets more interesting come Big ten season. Give Nugget and Leidner a little breathing room and enjoy the dang games.
 



Nokomis said:
This is the exact thinking that pisses me off. Leidner is NOT a terrible QB. He's an average to maybe slightly below average D1 QB. But certainly not terrible. And to the guy that said Leidner wouldn't start on any other B1G team. I think it was a little tongue in cheek, but that's just nonsense. Leidner would start ahead of probably a third of the other starting QBs in the league.
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So he's in the bottom third of starting QBs?


Yeah.... My point stands.
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
I just don't understand where all this negativity is coming from. So the offense has started off rocky. Didn't that also happen last year and the year before. Didn't Cobb get off to a slow start last year and the year before? The O line has taken time to gel in the past and the playbook definitely gets more interesting come Big ten season. Give Nugget and Leidner a little breathing room and enjoy the dang games.
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I mean have you watched the games? It should be easy to see....
 

JZsportswhiz said:
Leidner might be 11-7 but how many of those games did we really win because of him? How many of those games were against cupcakes who could have been beaten with just about anyone at QB?
.
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It's obviously a team game and you'll never definitively assign credit or blame for the outcome of a game to any one player. Having said that, this seems like a rather lame attempt at diminishing or dismissing Leidner's role in that record. Cupcakes? What I seem to recall was all of the expert commentary expecting the Gophers to continue improvement under Kill while probably taking a step backward recordwise due to a tougher schedule. That didn't happen. Oh, but do elaborate on how that record could have been achieved with any other qb.
 


I still contend that he is over coached and too worried about making mistakes. He seems the tightest early in the game, not stepping into the throws and trying to guide the ball. Later in the game when the coaches loosen up in order to catch up, he plays more instinctive and takes more chances. Some of his throw at the end of the CSU game were perfect. Same thing with how Nelson lite it up when he first started and then got the yipes and missed open layers as he "was coached up".


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Sid publicly defending you is the kiss of death.
 

Spoofin said:
+1. And please folks, let's not write Nugget off yet. He will play an important role this year still. 2-games. That is all we have played. Player's impact and potential, good or bad, hasn't been defined yet at any position - not RB and not even QB.
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The hypocrisy on this topic...Streveler is clearly a terrible throwing QB because of one game (where he wasn't put in the best position to succeed), but don't write off Nugget (despite mediocre career numbers against P5 competition). Nugget started vs TCU. What does that say about the coaches? There has never, in the history of sport, been a better backup than the starter.

I think we all have our favorite players and circle the wagons around our opinions despite all available evidence. Human nature I suppose. We could all still be wrong, about Strev, Nugget etc. Chances are we are going to need both due to injuries. Ain't this fun?
 

killme said:
Coach Kill said Bobeck short-armed the snap. Does your error nullify any validity your comments might have had?
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I love the ox, he is capable of throwing with good form but he does get rattled and his form degenerates when the pressure is on. This is why it is so critical to protect him or scheme ways for him to get rid of the ball quickly. He doesn't have 4 or 5 seconds. By the end of games he is throwing it off his back foot with the nearest player 4 yards away.

Forget about the fumbles, heaving it into the cheap seats for an intentional grounding was, I thought, kind of humorous after the fact. You've got to love the entertainment, love or hate the player.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
There has never, in the history of sport, been a better backup than the starter.
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There you go again. 100% not what I said. But, if it makes your point - lie away. For the record I said there has never been someone who struggles consistently at practice then lights it up consistently in games - and if the backups don't outperform Mitch in practice, don't play them. However for the THIRD (copyright Wren) time you have made a ridiculous 'interpretation' of what I said. Maybe you are doing that on purpose - no that can't be it.

FTR - Rodney had more carries than Nugget in game 1. Safe to say he wasn't consistently underperforming Nugget in practice leading up to the game.

Please stop your BS and lies.
 

PE - since you seemed to miss the last time I called you out on your tactics....

Spoofin said:
PE - I don't expect you to read all of my posts, but if you are going to quote my post and challenge me on it - then it would be courteous if you did.

First I say if the backups aren't outperforming ML7 in practice, then they shouldn't start. Your response: "Why do you have to trash the backups?" Huh?

Now you say I said practice always equals game performance and that I must not realize they are not hitting in practice. Huh? Read my post. I said there are countless (exact words) kids who perform better in practice then in games (in large part because there is no hitting, it is a different pace, etc). What I don't buy is the theory of a "gamer" - someone who consistently struggles in practice then goes and consistently lights it up in a game.

I am trying to say that if our backups don't show in practice they are better than Mitch, then I don't understand why folks would want us to throw them in the game to "see what they can do". Heck, some have even suggested playing all our QBs for 1-quarter each to "see what they can do". To me that is silly.

Hopefully you don't interpret this email as me ripping on all the Gopher greats from the past. Huh?
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killme said:
Good thing there was no pressure on that final TD drive.
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This is the one thing I'll give Leidner. He doesn't shy away from pressure and he doesn't unravel when he makes a bad decision.

Now that may be just because the upside of him isn't that great, but still.
 

Rodney's Open said:
This is the one thing I'll give Leidner. He doesn't shy away from pressure and he doesn't unravel when he makes a bad decision.

Now that may be just because the upside of him isn't that great, but still.
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Concession duly noted. Progress commended.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The hypocrisy on this topic...Streveler is clearly a terrible throwing QB because of one game (
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I wouldn't say that opinion is due to one game. We haven't seen any evidence in the last two years to indicate that either Streveler or the coaches have
much confidence in his ability to throw the ball. Considering the hits that Leidner takes, I'm really surprised that the coaches haven't experimented more with alternative backups. One explanation might be that this team has had few games within the last two seasons where they've had the breathing room to experiment.
 

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