Sid Hartman: Don't rip Leidner, he's a winner for Gophers

[BleedGopher]

per Sid:

Some media members continue to criticize Mitch Leidner, despite the fact he has started 18 college football games and has a 11-7 record — the first Gophers quarterback with a better-than-.500 winning percentage in some time. Coach Jerry Kill made it clear the former Lakeville South star is going to be the team’s starting quarterback going forward.

The last Gophers quarterback to have a winning record over two seasons was Bryan Cupito, who went 20-17 over three seasons from 2004-2006 under Glen Mason.

“It’s just like anything, we have to keep him healthy and he needs to continue to improve,” Kill said. “I think that he did a great job of bringing us back [in the Gophers’ 23-20 overtime victory over Colorado State on Saturday]. We don’t win the game if he doesn’t take us down the field and score. It’s one of those things, you look at eight or nine plays in the game that you wish you had made and then nobody is saying anything, and the other thing is he’s thrown the ball 150 or 160 times without an interception.

“He’s doing some good things. But people are critical of that position, just like they’re critical of me. I get e-mails all the time that I need to do this and I’m not very good at this and they need to hire somebody else as a coach when we don’t do very well. That’s just part of being a quarterback. Our whole football team on offense has to continue to improve and the offense reflects him.”

http://www.startribune.com/don-t-rip-mitch-leidner-he-s-a-winner-for-gophers/327973991/

Go Gophers!!

 

[Gopher028]

back to back 8 win seasons, yeah, i'd say he's a winner. and our best chance at winning the west.

 

[JZsportswhiz]

Sure he wins games, but he is a winner in the same sense that Tim Tebow was a "winner" in the NFL

 

[short ornery norwegian]

The last Gophers quarterback to have a winning record over two seasons was Bryan Cupito, who went 20-17 over three seasons from 2004-2006 under Glen Mason.

That really sums it up. The U of M has not been "QB U" - it's been more like "QB where are U?"

That's why I don't get all of the Leidner criticism. If the U had a tradition of outstanding QB play, and Leidner was not living up to that tradition, I could understand the criticism. But, Leidner is at least as good as some recent Gopher QB's, and better than others.

I get that people are hungry for a real outstanding QB. Maybe he's on the current roster - maybe he's not. But, here's a decidedly sarcastic question - if the Gophers did have an outstanding QB, what would everyone on here complain about?

 

[Jeshurun]

The last Gophers quarterback to have a winning record over two seasons was Bryan Cupito, who went 20-17 over three seasons from 2004-2006 under Glen Mason.

That really sums it up. The U of M has not been "QB U" - it's been more like "QB where are U?"

That's why I don't get all of the Leidner criticism. If the U had a tradition of outstanding QB play, and Leidner was not living up to that tradition, I could understand the criticism. But, Leidner is at least as good as some recent Gopher QB's, and better than others.

I get that people are hungry for a real outstanding QB. Maybe he's on the current roster - maybe he's not. But, here's a decidedly sarcastic question - if the Gophers did have an outstanding QB, what would everyone on here complain about?

My theory is that this is a pro town, and QB is the all-important piece in the pro game. A great one can carry a mediocre team. A bad one can doom a great team. Yep, Leidner is not good enough to carry us to a Big Ten Championship right now, but he's not so terrible compared to our team's QB history.

 

[MNVCGUY]

The last Gophers quarterback to have a winning record over two seasons was Bryan Cupito, who went 20-17 over three seasons from 2004-2006 under Glen Mason.

That really sums it up. The U of M has not been "QB U" - it's been more like "QB where are U?"

That's why I don't get all of the Leidner criticism. If the U had a tradition of outstanding QB play, and Leidner was not living up to that tradition, I could understand the criticism. But, Leidner is at least as good as some recent Gopher QB's, and better than others.

I get that people are hungry for a real outstanding QB. Maybe he's on the current roster - maybe he's not. But, here's a decidedly sarcastic question - if the Gophers did have an outstanding QB, what would everyone on here complain about?

The frustration is with the overall play of the offense and the reality is that the QB is going to take most of the blame or get most of the credit. The simple fact that Mitch has gone 11-7 as a starter doesn't mean people can't be frustrated by his subpar play at times. He is what he is, a game manger that won't kill you most games but will also rarely be the kind of game changing talent you see at QB around the country. He doesn't deserve all the critisim he gets because he clearly is the best we have but I also don't think people should be expected to be totally content with what we are getting out of the QB position and the offense as a whole. Especially when you look over and see a defense that looks good enough to take the team a long way.

 

[killme]

Sure he wins games, but he is a winner in the same sense that Tim Tebow was a "winner" in the NFL

Jeff George threw a nice spiral. Tebow won as many playoff games. The issue for me is, if given the choice, a group of Gopher fans would rather have pretty passes and stats, than wins. Fortunately, Kill and his staff understand the value of Mitch's toughness and leadership. Mitch is working his "tail end" off to improve and do what the coaches ask. His teammates, it appears, would run through the wall for Mitch, like they would for Kill. I think the value of that is really overlooked by a vocal segment of the fan base.

 

[ruppertflywheel]

He's an average QB on an above average team. Put Boykin, or if you want to go B1G, Wes Lunt or even Stave, we win the West. It is what it is. With Mitch you never know when you're going to get his "A" game. We will need that starting against Northwestern.

 

[Nokomis]

On this point, I fully agree with Sid (and most of the posters so far on this thread). Leidner doesn't get rattled when things aren't clicking. He understands his role & limitations. He also understands the offense and his teammates and what it takes to get a win late in the game. He plays within himself and doesn't make many big mistakes trying to do too much.

 

[dtrain19]

We all understand that 11-7 as a starter for a program that was down is very respectable. The reason for the criticism at the QB position is because we're all asking what would our record be or what could our record be with better QB play? Which, I believe, is a fair question. That being said, whoever is personally attacking Leidner on Twitter or wherever as has been reported should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[wait!what?]

We all understand that 11-7 as a starter for a program that was down is very respectable. The reason for the criticism at the QB position is because we're all asking what would our record be or what could our record be with better QB play? Which, I believe, is a fair question. That being said, whoever is personally attacking Leidner on Twitter or wherever as has been reported should be ashamed of themselves.

Leidner wouldn't start at QB at any other Big Ten School in 2015. Who cares. He plays and most of the time the Gophs win. Go Golden! yeah, i'll be at the stadium screaming when over throws a 6'10" guy by 2 feet.

 

[lexicalNinja]

We all understand that 11-7 as a starter for a program that was down is very respectable. The reason for the criticism at the QB position is because we're all asking what would our record be or what could our record be with better QB play? Which, I believe, is a fair question. That being said, whoever is personally attacking Leidner on Twitter or wherever as has been reported should be ashamed of themselves.

Actually it isn't a fair question since the answer is obviously better. Like if I asked how much better would my wallet be if that twenty in there was a hundo? Or how much better would this salad be if it were pizza. It's disingenuous at best. You would like leidner to be better and so would I but asking how much better would we be if we swapped for a better qb is silly.

We should really be asking what the coaches can do to make leidner better or put him in positions like the end of the game last week where he can be successful.

 

[dtrain19]

Actually it isn't a fair question since the answer is obviously better. Like if I asked how much better would my wallet be if that twenty in there was a hundo? Or how much better would this salad be if it were pizza. It's disingenuous at best. You would like leidner to be better and so would I but asking how much better would we be if we swapped for a better qb is silly. We should really be asking what the coaches can do to make leidner better or put him in positions like the end of the game last week where he can be successful.

Sid's column suggests we shouldn't be critical of Leidner because he's 11-7 as a starter. My point is the reason we're critical is because we think that record could be better. But thanks for explaining that $100 is better than $20.

 

[imthewalrus]

Sid's column suggests we shouldn't be critical of Leidner because he's 11-7 as a starter. My point is the reason we're critical is because we think that record could be better. But thanks for explaining that $100 is better than $20.

What you have to do then is "take it to the Coach and his Staff..." Coach Kill was REALLY stand-up and showed me a lot when he refused to just leave his qb out there on an island, and to a certain extent addressed the fans who seem to be "hell-bent" and chastising, blaming, mobbing on and bashing Coach Kill's STUDENT quarterback...and put the blame for anything your "hyper-critical ego bashing of the young man blaming him for EVERYTHING that is wrong with the offense DIRECTLY on Coach Kill's head. He is a MAN and he is paid millions and millions of bucks a year. His coordinators and his staff members are also VERY well-paid and it is their responsibility to recruit the players, plan the games, develop the players. Coach Kill so far has handed the ball to Leidner and sent him out onto the field. I am SO impressed that Coach Kill addressed that issue and basically sent a message to arm-chair qbs...Lazy-Boy coaching staff wannabe types out there in interne tchit-chat- land, mobbers and bashers and various other "experts..." that he and his staff are fully dedicated to putting the Gopher into the best position to win, will continue to BE IN CHARGE and do it HIS way.

Quite frankly, I think it is just as much an offensive line problem as any other type of problem. It takes 11 players ALL performing their position's assignment for EACH play pretty darn well to make a play work as designed and sometimes to work at all. One game at a time people. The Gopher is approaching the easier portion of the endless ooc season. BIG TEN FOOTBALL is still 2 games away.

Coach Kill is FIRMLY in charge and his Staff is right there with him. But, if you gotta "cry and bitch" about the offense...look at all 11 offensive positions on the field and have the nads to "take your complaint where it belongs. Put it squarely on the broad shoulders of our highly paid Head Coach. HE calls the shots. HE has the power. He has ALL the responsibility for what happens EVERY play of EVERY game. IF there is a problem: it is Coach Kill's problem...NOT Mitch Leidner's problem. It is an offensive systems problem, maybe...and...they have also played some fair to middlin football teams to date. The Gopher, I think has been represented as a TEAM pretty well so far.

 

[dtrain19]

What you have to do then is "take it to the Coach and his Staff..." Coach Kill was REALLY stand-up and showed me a lot when he refused to just leave his qb out there on an island, and to a certain extent addressed the fans who seem to be "hell-bent" and chastising, blaming, mobbing on and bashing Coach Kill's STUDENT quarterback...and put the blame for anything your "hyper-critical ego bashing of the young man blaming him for EVERYTHING that is wrong with the offense DIRECTLY on Coach Kill's head. He is a MAN and he is paid millions and millions of bucks a year. His coordinators and his staff members are also VERY well-paid and it is their responsibility to recruit the players, plan the games, develop the players. Coach Kill so far has handed the ball to Leidner and sent him out onto the field. I am SO impressed that Coach Kill addressed that issue and basically sent a message to arm-chair qbs...Lazy-Boy coaching staff wannabe types out there in interne tchit-chat- land, mobbers and bashers and various other "experts..." that he and his staff are fully dedicated to putting the Gopher into the best position to win, will continue to BE IN CHARGE and do it HIS way. Quite frankly, I think it is just as much an offensive line problem as any other type of problem. It takes 11 players ALL performing their position's assignment for EACH play pretty darn well to make a play work as designed and sometimes to work at all. One game at a time people. The Gopher is approaching the easier portion of the endless ooc season. BIG TEN FOOTBALL is still 2 games away. Coach Kill is FIRMLY in charge and his Staff is right there with him. But, if you gotta "cry and bitch" about the offense...look at all 11 offensive positions on the field and have the nads to "take your complaint where it belongs. Put it squarely on the broad shoulders of our highly paid Head Coach. HE calls the shots. HE has the power. He has ALL the responsibility for what happens EVERY play of EVERY game. IF there is a problem: it is Coach Kill's problem...NOT Mitch Leidner's problem. It is an offensive systems problem, maybe...and...they have also played some fair to middlin football teams to date. The Gopher, I think has been represented as a TEAM pretty well so far.

For the record I'm talking about being critical of a PLAYERS PERFORMANCE...not BASHING, MOBBING, CHASTISING the player himself. As posted earlier, those who choose to take cheap shots at any player on a personal level should be ashamed.

 

[Rodney's Open]

The last Gophers quarterback to have a winning record over two seasons was Bryan Cupito, who went 20-17 over three seasons from 2004-2006 under Glen Mason.

That really sums it up. The U of M has not been "QB U" - it's been more like "QB where are U?"

That's why I don't get all of the Leidner criticism. If the U had a tradition of outstanding QB play, and Leidner was not living up to that tradition, I could understand the criticism. But, Leidner is at least as good as some recent Gopher QB's, and better than others.

I get that people are hungry for a real outstanding QB. Maybe he's on the current roster - maybe he's not. But, here's a decidedly sarcastic question - if the Gophers did have an outstanding QB, what would everyone on here complain about?

I don't want to get into a big thing about Leidner because my feelings are well known.


BUT, this is the exact thinking that pisses me off. "We've had terrible QB play before. Be satisfied!" Could it be worse? Yes. That doesn't mean we should settle for Leidner.

Great, the Gophers have a winning record when he starts. What does that prove? He's also lost us several games on his own.

I think Sid making this comment pretty much solidifies my point.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

If Leidner could consistently throw a 5 yard pass (like any college QB should be able to) I think most people would get off his back. But he can't make the easy throws, which is what drives me and many others crazy. That's the main reason his completion percentage remains so low.

 

[Blackhammer]

On this point, I fully agree with Sid (and most of the posters so far on this thread). Leidner doesn't get rattled when things aren't clicking. He understands his role & limitations. He also understands the offense and his teammates and what it takes to get a win late in the game. He plays within himself and doesn't make many big mistakes trying to do too much.

Not rattled? Key fourth and one fumbles the snap. Par for the course for him. He is an average at best QB but his poise or so called no getting ratttled is a joke. He is Barney Fife in the pocket.

 

[Nokomis]

I don't want to get into a big thing about Leidner because my feelings are well known.


BUT, this is the exact thinking that pisses me off. "We've had terrible QB play before. Be satisfied!" Could it be worse? Yes. That doesn't mean we should settle for Leidner.

Great, the Gophers have a winning record when he starts. What does that prove? He's also lost us several games on his own.

I think Sid making this comment pretty much solidifies my point.

This is the exact thinking that pisses me off. Leidner is NOT a terrible QB. He's an average to maybe slightly below average D1 QB. But certainly not terrible. And to the guy that said Leidner wouldn't start on any other B1G team. I think it was a little tongue in cheek, but that's just nonsense. Leidner would start ahead of probably a third of the other starting QBs in the league.

 

[Nokomis]

No rattled? Key forth and one fumbles the snap. Par for the course for him. He is an average at best QB but his poise or so called no getting ratttled is a joke. He is Barney Fife in the pocket.

This is a joke right? I think his poise was pretty good in that last drive against CSU and that last drive against Nebraska last year. One fumbled snap isn't indicative of his overall poise. No INTs on the year is, though.

 

[DoubleAlum]

I know I've been too hard on Mitch at times, and regret that, but then I calm down and remind myself of all the good things I've seen him do and that he is a great competitor. Gopherhole has been an excellent place to go to temper my temper and put things in perspective. There are some very rational guys on here.

I was at the TCU game sitting on the 50 and had a wonderful view at times of Mitch throwing. I couldn't believe the motion he was using at times. He was heaving it. He was extending his arm way back, straightening his arm, and then heaving it. It seems to me that's sort of a difficult way to throw a football. It just makes you wonder about a lot of things including instruction, statements by the coaching staff that Mitch is throwing much better than last year, the Manning Passing Academy, etc.

My fault has been wanting to see Streveler run the offense for a few games. Kill says Streveler can pass the ball well, so all the guys who say we should listen to Kill about Mitch need to stop saying Streveler can't pass. We have little to no data to work with on that. I think everyone including the coaches would agree that we are sometimes caught off guard at how well someone performs in games. Strev ran for 160 yards vs. NMSU or whoever it was. That's pretty interesting stuff if you ask me. Woli goes for over 100, Rodney goes for over 100, and everyone on here starts throwing out superlatives like sheeple (by the way, it's not that Woli has taken a big leap. As Woli said the other day, it's more because they just decided to start including him in the action). It's just bizarre. And yet the same guys say Strev sucks and will never play QB for the Gophers. The thinking of some people on here is so over the top.

A lot of this is about managing expectations and taking what the coaches say with a grain of salt.

 

[Blackhammer]

I look at what Kevin Gorg said in defending him. He is a good passer when there is no pressure in the pocket. Well most QBs are. I think he gets rattled too easily. He has had good moments and hopefully will have more. I had hoped all this talk about going to the Manning camp and such his accuracy would have improved among other things. But it has just been two games.

 

['13Gopher]

If Leidner could consistently throw a 5 yard pass (like any college QB should be able to) I think most people would get off his back. But he can't make the easy throws, which is what drives me and many others crazy. That's the main reason his completion percentage remains so low.

Thank you. Leidner's current situation reminds me somewhat of Tony Romo and/or Jay Cutler. Look at their entire body of work and hey, it doesn't seem so bad. Great regular season records (maybe no Cutler so much), and respectable stat lines. The reason these three QBs take so much heat is because they make such boneheaded mistakes that anyone would reasonably expect them to make. Cutler flings the ball wherever and whenever he chooses, Romo can't play in the clutch very well and Mitchy can't hit a wide open receive 4 yards down field on 3rd and 3...it's not that they aren't decent quarterbacks overall, they just have certain aspects of their game that you simply can't trust.

 

[DoubleAlum]

This is the exact thinking that pisses me off. Leidner is NOT a terrible QB. He's an average to maybe slightly below average D1 QB. But certainly not terrible. And to the guy that said Leidner wouldn't start on any other B1G team. I think it was a little tongue in cheek, but that's just nonsense. Leidner would start ahead of probably a third of the other starting QBs in the league.

That's where you lose me. it's as if you don't watch those other quarterbacks play. I will support Mitch unconditionally the rest of the season. But no he wouldn't start on 1/3 of the teams. Maybe one or two at most. You guys just refuse to be objective. It's the same know-it-all guys who said Nugget will be a big performer this year and all the other chest-puffing projections. You can love our Gophers without losing objectivity, even though many are incapable of doing so.

 

[GophersInIowa]

That's where you lose me. it's as if you don't watch those other quarterbacks play. I will support Mitch unconditionally the rest of the season. But no he wouldn't start on 1/3 of the teams. Maybe one or two at most. You guys just refuse to be objective. It's the same know-it-all guys who said Nugget will be a big performer this year and all the other chest-puffing projections. You can love our Gophers without losing objectivity, even though many are incapable of doing so.

Just because you don't agree with someone's take or opinion doesn't mean they aren't being "objective". I don't think it was too crazy to think Williams would be a good player for us this year.

 

[DoubleAlum]

Just because you don't agree with someone's take or opinion doesn't mean they aren't being "objective". I don't think it was too crazy to think Williams would be a good player for us this year.

I agree with you. But so far it hasn't turned out that way. Just like the numerous guys who said Jeff Jones will be the best running back we've seen in years and is a beast among boys. That he will emerge as our number one back. All I'm saying is things aren't so easy to predict as people think. I just wish folks were more open to other possibilities. Nobody knows if Streveler could lead this team as well as or better than Mitch. Yet, 90% of the guys on here claim they absolutely KNOW he wouldn't. It's just frustrating to see how the most prolific contributors on here refuse to acknowledge that they have no more insight than anyone else and that they are often very wrong. It's as if they go through life with blinders on refusing to see how many thousands of times things don't turn out the way the masses think they will. How long does one need to live on this earth and observe these lessons over and over until they admit that things often have unpredictable outcomes.

A vast majority of people are predicting we'll be Kent state by 20 to 30 points and that because Illinois destroyed them we'll destroy them as well. Unfortunately, football doesn't work that way often times. Everyone is saying we'll be able to play our second and third stringers and give the starters a rest. Well, what if it doesn't go that way? Then what will these people say. "We're not as good as I thought"? How about putting some of that thought into the front-end before you make your prediction. Our o-line is hurting big time, our passing game comes and goes, our defense has a few injuries, our tight-ends are beat up. KJ Maye is hurting. Maybe this will be closer than everyone thinks.

In any event, you're right. It was just his opinion that Mitch would start on 1/3 of B1G teams and I shouldn't have been so sure he wouldn't.

 

[Nokomis]

That's where you lose me. it's as if you don't watch those other quarterbacks play. I will support Mitch unconditionally the rest of the season. But no he wouldn't start on 1/3 of the teams. Maybe one or two at most. You guys just refuse to be objective. It's the same know-it-all guys who said Nugget will be a big performer this year and all the other chest-puffing projections. You can love our Gophers without losing objectivity, even though many are incapable of doing so.

Well, I'd probably start Mitch over Appleby & the guys at Rutgers & Maryland. The kid at Northwestern has looked good, but he's a freshman, so not sure he starts ahead of Mitch, at least early in the season. Mitch maybe looses out to Stave, Beathard, & Rudock, but not by much. And then yeah, the other QBs are all probably indisputably better.

But all this is hypothetical and stupid to argue. My point is it isn't "objective", as you say, to call Mitch a terrible QB and the worst in the B1G (or even D1 as I've heard elsewhere). It's just plain reactionary and not an accurate portrayal of Mitch's ability.

 

[Nokomis]

I agree with you. But so far it hasn't turned out that way. Just like the numerous guys who said Jeff Jones will be the best running back we've seen in years and is a beast among boys. That he will emerge as our number one back. All I'm saying is things aren't so easy to predict as people think. I just wish folks were more open to other possibilities. Nobody knows if Streveler could lead this team as well as or better than Mitch. Yet, 90% of the guys on here claim they absolutely KNOW he wouldn't. It's just frustrating to see how the most prolific contributors on here refuse to acknowledge that they have no more insight than anyone else and that they are often very wrong. It's as if they go through life with blinders on refusing to see how many thousands of times things don't turn out the way the masses think they will. How long does one need to live on this earth and observe these lessons over and over until they admit that things often have unpredictable outcomes.

In any event, you're right. It was just his opinion that Mitch would start on 1/3 of B1G teams and I shouldn't have been so sure he wouldn't.

I'm sure the coaches have a pretty good idea. I trust their judgement and what I've seen of Mitch on the field.

 

[Spoofin]

That's where you lose me. it's as if you don't watch those other quarterbacks play. I will support Mitch unconditionally the rest of the season. But no he wouldn't start on 1/3 of the teams. Maybe one or two at most. You guys just refuse to be objective. It's the same know-it-all guys who said Nugget will be a big performer this year and all the other chest-puffing projections. <b>You can love our Gophers without losing objectivity, even though many are incapable of doing so.</b>

Totally Agree. I can think of one poster, in particular, that isn't objective on this topic at all. Guess who?

 

[Spoofin]

Just because you don't agree with someone's take or opinion doesn't mean they aren't being "objective". I don't think it was too crazy to think Williams would be a good player for us this year.

+1. And please folks, let's not write Nugget off yet. He will play an important role this year still. 2-games. That is all we have played. Player's impact and potential, good or bad, hasn't been defined yet at any position - not RB and not even QB.