SI: "...makes you wonder how long Smith can last at Minnesota"

[BleedGopher]

from an SI article on Bruce Weber:

"Minnesota hired a national-title winning coach, Tubby Smith. Michigan hired John Beilein, considered one of the great minds in the game by other coaches and the best pure coach in the school's history. Indiana hired Tom Crean, who took Marquette to the Final Four. Wisconsin's Bo Ryan has taken that program where nobody imagined it could go.

Well, they all have to face each other. And that means that good coaches were going to get fired. It was inevitable. Weber will be next, and it makes you wonder how long Smith can last at Minnesota. Smith did a good job this year after his best player, Trevor Mbakwe, was lost for the season because of an injury. But at some point, Minnesota's new athletic director won't care that Smith was a splashy hire. He will expect Big Ten championships."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/03/07/Bruce.Weber/

Go Gophers!!

 

[Whathavewedone]

Given Tubby's track record, what inclines anyone to think that having Mbakwe would have done any more than take the team to 9-9(10-8 max) in the conference?

 

[Section201]

from an SI article on Bruce Weber:

"Minnesota hired a national-title winning coach, Tubby Smith. Michigan hired John Beilein, considered one of the great minds in the game by other coaches and the best pure coach in the school's history. Indiana hired Tom Crean, who took Marquette to the Final Four. Wisconsin's Bo Ryan has taken that program where nobody imagined it could go.

Well, they all have to face each other. And that means that good coaches were going to get fired. It was inevitable. Weber will be next, and it makes you wonder how long Smith can last at Minnesota. Smith did a good job this year after his best player, Trevor Mbakwe, was lost for the season because of an injury. But at some point, Minnesota's new athletic director won't care that Smith was a splashy hire. He will expect Big Ten championships."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/03/07/Bruce.Weber/

Go Gophers!!

Yes, 6 and 12 is a good job

6 and 12 blows. 6 and 12 two years in a row is a complete failure.

 

[Monty519]

They make a valid point in that the B1G is no joke when it comes to coaches. We have a bunch of good ones, and yes, IMO Tubby Smith is one of them. But it might just be a situation where he's just not good enough to overcome the obstacles (both self-inflicted and others) that he has encountered the last couple of years while also battling some of the best coaches in the country.

 

[THE SCOUT!]

Big ten Championships a requirement to keep job at U OF M. The writer is Crazy!! I think going to the big dance more often than not and getting into the big ten top 3 once in a while will keep a coach in good standing

 

[Gold Vision]

Already departed coaches include Lickliter and Dechellis. Both failed in the same period as Tubby and Weber. Crean and Beilein had a rough few years out of the gate too. It's a flat out tough conference and we lost our momentum with the transfers. It sucks to think about where this team was just over 1 year ago and where it is now.

Those that think the entire Tubby tenure has been a failure are flat out wrong and have very short memories.

 

[Cayman]

Those that think the entire Tubby tenure has been a failure are flat out wrong and have very short memories.

Exactly, revisionist history. Nolen doesn't get injured, Tubby takes Minnesota to the tourney for the third straight year, something this school has never done, wins a game or two, we head into this season, go 9-9 or so with a healthy Mbakwe, no one is talking about firing the coach right now.

 

[howieramone]

Exactly, revisionist history. Nolen doesn't get injured, Tubby takes Minnesota to the tourney for the third straight year, something this school has never done, wins a game or two, we head into this season, go 9-9 or so with a healthy Mbakwe, no one is talking about firing the coach right now.

+1

 

[scools12]

Exactly, revisionist history. Nolen doesn't get injured, Tubby takes Minnesota to the tourney for the third straight year, something this school has never done, wins a game or two, we head into this season, go 9-9 or so with a healthy Mbakwe, no one is talking about firing the coach right now.

you are stating something as fact which can't be proven. we only know what their record was without those players. what you are implying is only speculation.

 

[howieramone]

you are stating something as fact which can't be proven. we only know what their record was without those players. what you are implying is only speculation.

Believe what you want Sherlock.

 

[minngg]

Already departed coaches include Lickliter and Dechellis. Both failed in the same period as Tubby and Weber. Crean and Beilein had a rough few years out of the gate too. It's a flat out tough conference and we lost our momentum with the transfers. It sucks to think about where this team was just over 1 year ago and where it is now.

Those that think the entire Tubby tenure has been a failure are flat out wrong and have very short memories.

You don't need a memory. Just look at his record. He has a 5 year record.

 

[minngg]

Believe what you want Sherlock.

Both the Gophers and Notre Dame received exactly one 25th place vote in a poll to start the season (Gophers in the AP, Notre Dame in the coaches). Both teams lost their best player for the year, a senior power forward, early in the season (like Mbakwe for the Gophers, Tim Abromaitis led the team in both scoring and rebounding when he went down). Neither team had any kind of real impact freshman coming in, so post-injury both schools looked to be in trouble. But, where the Gophers have struggled and floundered and canceled out any flashes of brilliance with some terrible outings, Notre Dame has played together, executed well consistently, and completely bought in to Mike Brey's system and is 20-10 overall, 12-5 in the Big East, and a lock for the tournament. Look at these two teams. It's hard to say Notre Dame is significantly more talented, if at all, than the Gophers, and yet look at the results. Unsettling, at best.

 

[macgopher]

Exactly, revisionist history. Nolen doesn't get injured, Tubby takes Minnesota to the tourney for the third straight year, something this school has never done, wins a game or two, we head into this season, go 9-9 or so with a healthy Mbakwe, no one is talking about firing the coach right now.

The odd thing about Mbakwe's injury, it did let us see a lot more three guard play this year which was enjoyable at times, and the minutes the guards got may pay off next year. Rodney also was more productive as well. That said, I missed Mbakwe's game, it was so intense. But I was disappointed that the record wasn't better, and as good as Mbakwe was, had he not been injured I wonder if the offense would have struggled more playing two guards.

 

[minngg]

The odd thing about Mbakwe's injury, it did let us see a lot more three guard play this year which was enjoyable at times, and the minutes the guards got may pay off next year. Rodney also was more productive as well. That said, I missed Mbakwe's game, it was so intense. But I was disappointed that the record wasn't better, and as good as Mbakwe was, had he not been injured I wonder if the offense would have struggled more playing two guards.

This guy gets it.

 

[Becky Vadger]

6-12 records obviously aren't going to get it done long term, but I really think we have been right on the cusp of finishing in the upper half of the Big Ten more often than not under Tubby.

Maybe he will prove me completely wrong, but I think within the next season or so he will lead us to a top four finish (or better) in conference. He is too good a coach not to .

 

[howieramone]

6-12 records obviously aren't going to get it done long term, but I really think we have been right on the cusp of finishing in the upper half of the Big Ten more often than not under Tubby.

Maybe he will prove me completely wrong, but I think within the next season or so he will lead us to a top four finish (or better) in conference. He is too good a coach not to .

+1

 

[minngg]

And bunnies and kitties and sugar plums and pretty flying ponies are all coming to my birthday party.

 

[EG#9]

I think we will all be on the same on Tubby, one way or the other, after next season. Tubby either gets his first winning season in the Big Ten or he doesn't. I do get angered by the "he did a good job without Mbakwe" throw away line that seems to be in many linked stories. He did a good job according to what criteria? 10th place in the conference was somehow better than should have been expected without Trevor Mbakwe? No. The Gophers have won exactly one game all season that they were not favored to win (@Indiana). There is just not an argument that can be made that a "good job" was done this season.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

2 more years here at most.

 

[Becky Vadger]

I think we will all be on the same on Tubby, one way or the other, after next season.

We probably won't all be on the same page, but we should be a lot closer. I feel like I am one of the biggest Tubby fans on the board, but if we go 6-12 or 7-11 next year, even I will have to consider whether or not it might be best for all involved if Tubby pursued other opportunities.

I don't think that is going to happen though. As good a defensive team as we normally are, and with another year of experience for our younger guys, I think we are going to make a strong push for a Top 5 B1G finish and a NCAA tourney bid.

 

[dpodoll68]

I don't understand why Smith is even brought into the Weber conversation.

Weber is in his 9th season at Illinois. Smith is in his 5th at Minnesota.

Illinois is a far, far, far better program historically, and in recent history, than Minnesota. It's not even close. Weber's predecessor is a sure-fire, no-doubt future HOF coach. Illinois has had a string of good-to-great head coaches, and you'd have to go back to 1974 (Harv Schmidt) to find the last time Illinois did not have a good-to-great head coach. Each of his predecessors since 1974 has been to at least two Elite Eights in their careers (Bartow, Henson, Kruger, Self) while Minnesota has only Monson and Haskins, only one of whom had an Elite Eight run at Minnesota (which is, of course, the only Elite Eight in the school's entire history).

Weber was handed an elite roster by his future HOF predecessor, and he almost won a national title with those players. Smith was handed an elite roster by his future HOF predecessor at Kentucky, and he did win a national title with those players. Weber had decades' worth of momentum in his favor, and had perhaps the most talented squad in Illinois history given to him, not to mention having the best head coach in school history as his immediate predecessor. Smith had a poor roster and a squad that won 9 games the previous season handed to him, succeeding a coach that had no business ever being handed the reigns of a BCS conference team. Weber has been in an almost linear slide since his 2nd season, while Smith continually improved the squad over the first 3 seasons before failing the last two. If we really want to have this discussion, come back and talk to me about Weber:Smith in four years.

 

[Whathavewedone]

I don't understand why Smith is even brought into the Weber conversation.

I'll tell you EXACTLY why Smith is in that conversation. Smith was PORTRAYED
as an elite coach of the level that would make the Gophers a Big 10 contender
and compete for FF's as Weber did. Weber has fallen far from that level,
he is rightly under fire. Smith hasn't come close to approaching that level, and
given NO indication he's capable of doing so, he's rightly under fire.

 

[Dr.Don]

And bunnies and kitties and sugar plums and pretty flying ponies are all coming to my birthday party.

It's a good thing, what you said. No human would want to be there.

 

[Whathavewedone]

They make a valid point in that the B1G is no joke when it comes to coaches. We have a bunch of good ones, and yes, IMO Tubby Smith is one of them. But it might just be a situation where he's just not good enough to overcome the obstacles (both self-inflicted and others) that he has encountered the last couple of years while also battling some of the best coaches in the country.

Or it might just be, that he is NOT a particularly good coach. His ingame failures and his
inability to develop players tends to lead to THAT interpretation.

 

[dpodoll68]

Since 1985 (post-64 team expansion):

National runner-up: Illinois 1, Minnesota 0
Final Four appearances: Illinois 2, Minnesota 0
Elite Eight appearances: Illinois 3, Minnesota 1
Sweet Sixten appearances: Illinois 6, Minnesota 2
Second Round appearances: Illinois 15, Minnesota 2
NCAA Tournament appearances: Illinois 21, Minnesota 5
Big Ten regular season champions: Illinois 5, Minnesota 0
Big Ten tournament champions: Illinois 2, Minnesota 0

And Illinois gives Bruce Weber, who has one 2nd-round appearance post-4th season (i.e., with all of his own players), nine years, while we're supposed to run off Tubby Smith after five? Give me a f'in break.

 

[dpodoll68]

I'll tell you EXACTLY why Smith is in that conversation. Smith was PORTRAYED
as an elite coach of the level that would make the Gophers a Big 10 contender
and compete for FF's as Weber did. Weber has fallen far from that level,
he is rightly under fire. Smith hasn't come close to approaching that level, and
given NO indication he's capable of doing so, he's rightly under fire.

Weber has done nothing to build anything at Illinois. He has gotten almost continually worse since Self's players graduated. Weber hasn't come close to living up to the historical standards set by Illinois since Self's players graduated.

Your enter key is apparently still broken.

And you can't quote worth a sh*t.

Why are you still allowed to post here?

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Balance of classes.

The basketball team is experiencing something very similar to what the football team did this year, and both likely will next year; for slightly different reasons, both teams/programs have a disproportionate number of players in the upper classes.

RSIII was the only active senior to play the BT season. The only Juniors are Rodney and a couple of JuCo's (one who plays very sparingly). That is a tough obstacle to overcome. You end up playing way too many players who aren't ready to play. You need a good mix of upper and lower classmen. To that point, I'm VERY glad that both EE and Oto were able to redshirt. Hopefully it's a trend that continues.

That being said, this team has also displayed way too many stretches of play where they just don't seem to be very well coached. That's frustrating, regardless of the pedigree of the coach.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

I don't understand why Smith is even brought into the Weber conversation.

Weber is in his 9th season at Illinois. Smith is in his 5th at Minnesota.

Illinois is a far, far, far better program historically, and in recent history, than Minnesota. It's not even close. Weber's predecessor is a sure-fire, no-doubt future HOF coach. Illinois has had a string of good-to-great head coaches, and you'd have to go back to 1974 (Harv Schmidt) to find the last time Illinois did not have a good-to-great head coach. Each of his predecessors since 1974 has been to at least two Elite Eights in their careers (Bartow, Henson, Kruger, Self) while Minnesota has only Monson and Haskins, only one of whom had an Elite Eight run at Minnesota (which is, of course, the only Elite Eight in the school's entire history).

Weber was handed an elite roster by his future HOF predecessor, and he almost won a national title with those players. Smith was handed an elite roster by his future HOF predecessor at Kentucky, and he did win a national title with those players. Weber had decades' worth of momentum in his favor, and had perhaps the most talented squad in Illinois history given to him, not to mention having the best head coach in school history as his immediate predecessor. Smith had a poor roster and a squad that won 9 games the previous season handed to him, succeeding a coach that had no business ever being handed the reigns of a BCS conference team. Weber has been in an almost linear slide since his 2nd season, while Smith continually improved the squad over the first 3 seasons before failing the last two. If we really want to have this discussion, come back and talk to me about Weber:Smith in four years.

Thats a great comparison.

I've been vocal on how I think Tubby has failed in the last 5 years, however, this puts a lot of perspective into it. I don't think we could hire much better than Tubby, that said, I don't think he has done a great job. However, he definately has done much better than Webber, who obviously has struggled significantly.

 

[Whathavewedone]

Weber has done nothing to build anything at Illinois. He has gotten almost continually worse since Self's players graduated. Weber hasn't come close to living up to the historical standards set by Illinois since Self's players graduated.

Your enter key is apparently still broken.

And you can't quote worth a sh*t.

Why are you still allowed to post here?

I quoted the part of your screed I was replying to. And had Smith made some progress toward doing what he was portrayed
as being hired for, then he wouldn't be under the gun, and Weber IS in trouble precisely because he HAS fallen from the level he started.

Why are you still allowed to deflate the intelligence level of any room you enter?

 

[dpodoll68]

I quoted the part of your screed I was replying to.

Quite terribly, yes.

And had Smith made some progress toward doing what he was portrayed as being hired for, then he wouldn't be under the gun

To say Smith has not advanced the Minnesota program during his tenure is a bald-faced lie. You are very good at conjuring those.

Weber IS in trouble precisely because he HAS fallen from the level he started

Yes, nine years later. This is my point.

Why are you still allowed to deflate the intelligence level of any room you enter?

I don't know you at all, but I have read far too many of your "thoughts" and I guarantee that I am much, much smarter than you.