Shutdown U's Extrajudicial Process

Please quote us one example of someone definitively "condoning" rape on this board. ONE.

SJU meant to say: Let's condone all violations of the Student Code of Conduct just in case they somehow impact our football team because none of the accused players can possibly be treated fairly under a disciplinary process that provides for a hearing with attorneys and witnesses presenting their cases before a 5-member voting panel of members of the Campus Committee on Student Behavior.

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CAMPUS COMMITTEE ON STUDENT BEHAVIOR HEARING PROCEDURES

A. INTRODUCTION

The Campus Committee on Student Behavior (CCSB) assists in implementing the Board of Regents Policy: Student Conduct Code at the University of Minnesota on the Twin Cities Campus. The CCSB provides a fair hearing to determine if a student’s behavior has violated the Student Conduct Code and to determine what, if any, sanction should be imposed.

Complaints of Student Conduct Code violations are referred to the CCSB for a hearing by the Office for Student Conduct and Academic Integrity (OSCAI). The CCSB Secretary receives the complaints and assists the CCSB Chair in managing the hearing process.

B. PARTIES TO THE COMPLAINT

In CCSB cases, the University is the formal complainant and the accused student is the individual alleged by the University to be in violation of the Student Conduct Code. For the purpose of these procedures, the parties are identified as the University presenter and theaccused student.

The University appoints a presenter to bring the University’s case before the Committee. If an accused student is represented by an attorney, the University’s Office of the General Counsel will assign an attorney to serve as the University presenter. Students may obtain the services of an advocate through the Student Conflict Resolution Center, who can help them prepare and present their case before the CCSB.

The accused student must submit the name of any advocate or attorney to the CCSB Secretary before the prehearing conference, and must give immediate notice to the CCSB Secretary if there is any change in an advocate or attorney.

C. COMMITTEE AND PANELS

The Senate Committee on Committees appoints faculty, staff, and student members to theCCSB. Panels are drawn from the CCSB to hear individual cases. A CCSB Panel consists of the Panel Chair and a panel of five (5) or more voting members. Each Panel will include at least one faculty and one student, not including periods when the University is not in session. The Panel Chair and the CCSB Secretary have no vote. The CCSB Chair normally serves as the Panel Chair, but may delegate that role to another CCSB member.

In addition to Panel members, the Dean of the accused student’s college appoints a faculty, staff, or student to sit on the Panel. In cases involving cross-collegiate situations, a representative from each college is appointed to the Panel. Collegiate-appointed panel members have a vote and are counted in the quorum of five. Collegiate representation is not applicable when the accused is a student organization.


Panel members are not advocates for either side. The Panel shall fairly consider the information presented at the hearing and may ask questions of the witnesses. The Panel shall decide whether the accused student violated the Student Conduct Code and, if so, what
sanctions are appropriate. The Panel may not talk privately (outside of the hearing room) about the complaint with the parties or their advocates.

D. CASES OF HARM TO PERSON OR SEXUAL ASSAULT

For hearings involving violations of sexual assault, sexual harassment, stalking, or relationship violence, the panel membership will be limited to five (5) members, one of which shall be a collegiate representative. These hearings will be held as soon as possible.

E. THE COMPLAINT AND SCHEDULING

When a complaint is not resolved informally, OSCAI forwards it to the CCSB Secretary for a hearing. The CCSB Secretary will notify the CCSB Chair, the University presenter, and the accused student of the statement of the complaint, the Student Conduct Code, and these
procedures. Where more than one student is alleged to have violated the Student Conduct Code in a related incident, CCSB proceedings generally will be held together. The Chair has discretion to hold separate hearings upon a student’s request prior to the prehearing conference.

The CCSB will strive to complete a hearing within one month of the student’s request for a hearing, not including periods when the University is not in session. The CCSB Secretary will be responsible for scheduling a prehearing conference and the hearing, taking into account the parties’ academic schedules as appropriate. The CCSB Secretary generally will provide at least 5 days notice before the prehearing conference.

F. STUDENT STATUS DURING THE PROCESS

An accused student ordinarily is allowed to continue the status of a student-in-good-standing pending the outcome of the CCSB hearing. However, in certain cases, the President or delegate may suspend a student temporarily, pending the CCSB’s hearing and decision, as
provided in the Student Conduct Code. In such situations, the CCSB should hold a hearing as soon as possible. In complaints of alleged scholastic dishonesty, any grade affected will be redacted from the transcript pending a disposition from the Panel.


http://usenate.umn.edu/ccsb/ccsbprocedures.pdf

Appeal

A student found to have violated Board of Regents Policy: Student Conduct Code is entitled to a campus-wide appeal of disciplinary decisions made in the hearing process. The reporting party in a sexual assault, sexual harassment, stalking, or relationship violence case also has the right to a campus-wide appeal.

Grounds for Appeal

The following are the grounds for appealing a disciplinary decision.

- There was significant procedural error sufficient to affect the outcome (e.g., lack of notice, opportunity to be heard, or opportunity to challenge information). A procedural error is not a basis for sustaining an appeal unless it was significant enough to affect the outcome.

- The rule found to have been violated was misapplied, misinterpreted, or contrary to law.

- New evidence exists that was not previously available to the appealing party and that is sufficient to affect the outcome.

- The sanction was grossly disproportionate to the offense.

- The disciplinary decision was not based on substantial information. Substantial information means relevant information that a reasonable person might accept as adequate to support a conclusion.

In making this determination, the appellate officer must respect the credibility determinations of the hearing body and must not substitute his or her judgment for the hearing body. Rather, the appellate officer must determine whether the hearing body’s disciplinary decision was unreasonable (i.e., arbitrary) in light of the information presented.

Nature of Appellate Review

A student found to have violated Board of Regents Policy: Student Conduct Code or the reporting party in a sexual assault, sexual harassment, stalking, or relationship violence case has the right to appeal the disciplinary decision. Appellate review generally is a review of the record to determine whether a serious error occurred in the original proceeding that resulted in unfairness. Appellate review respects the credibility judgments of the hearing body, and respects the hearing body’s determinations as long as there is any evidence to reasonably support them.

Appellate Officer

The appellate officer makes the final University decision regarding student discipline. The Provost serves as the appellate officer, unless the Provost authorizes another administrator who holds a position of campus-wide scope to serve as the appellate officer in the Provost's place.

http://policy.umn.edu/education/studentconductcode-proc01#appeal
 

The entire process is transparent, just like any other state process. It is published, open, and easily available to all students, staff and faculty to examine. And, as all policy is determined by the board of trustees, appointed positions from politicians, no less, then the source of power is from the state. And, the source of power for the whole process is derived from both federal and state authority. The EOAA is not the sole arbiter of "punishment", a term I would not choose to use in this instance as it really does not describe the outcome.

From a political philosophy perspective, anybody who joins the U as a student or staff agrees to and consents to these rules upon acceptance. So, be careful what you think is objectionable after the fact. In other words, buyer beware. And, if we go with the free market approach, then you need to look for a non federally funded school to avoid the Cleary Act, not that it fully frees a person from the equivalent of the EOAA at another school. You may find, they have even tighter codes of conduct, with even more adverse outcomes.

Thanks for the explanation. Regarding punishment, I would call suspension and expulsion punishment. Which I believe is what was in their recommendation. Correct? My main question was who are the people that run the process? What are their qualifications? How are they chosen? Do the have inherent bias?
 

Title IX is not going anywhere. I agree that a panel meant to determine academic misconduct or being a bad roommate is not the way to deal with sexual harassment and assault issues, but it's not going away. Academic discipline is completely different from any legal issues, but how do universities handle sexist and discriminatory behavior that is disruptive to the academic experience but not necessarily criminal behavior?
 

My main question was who are the people that run the process? What are their qualifications? How are they chosen? Do the have inherent bias?

All good questions. We don't know the answers because the five voting members of the CCSB panel haven't been appointed yet.
 





Title IX is not going anywhere. I agree that a panel meant to determine academic misconduct or being a bad roommate is not the way to deal with sexual harassment and assault issues, but it's not going away. Academic discipline is completely different from any legal issues, but how do universities handle sexist and discriminatory behavior that is disruptive to the academic experience but not necessarily criminal behavior?

Isn't title ix federally mandated? Doesn't the US have a new president who is not terribly PC? It may well go away.
 

The key word is "recommendations". Nothing is final here.

I go back to my original question. Who are the people that comprise the EOAA and what are their qualifications? How are they chosen? I'm not suggesting you know or should know. But for me, not knowing, makes me skeptical.
 



I go back to my original question. Who are the people that comprise the EOAA and what are their qualifications? How are they chosen? I'm not suggesting you know or should know. But for me, not knowing, makes me skeptical.

You are right to be skeptical in the same way I am skeptical about any court case or administrative determination that doesn't go the way I want it to. Who are the judges, and juries, and hearing officers appointed to decide those cases and disputes?. What are their qualifications? Are they biased? Those questions get asked in every criminal, civil, and administrative proceeding in every state in America. They have been since the Founding Fathers started it all. Injustice occurs every day to people in all walks of life. But some of us just don't care about it until it affects our favorite college football team.
 

You are right to be skeptical in the same way I am skeptical about any court case or aministrative that doesn't go the way I want it to. Who are the judges, and juries, and hearing officers appointed to decide those cases. What are their qualifications? Are they biased?

Maybe the wool has been pulled over my eyes my entire adult life. But based on educational requirements, elections, the involvement of representation for the alleged victim and the accused, I've assumed a reasonable level of confidence. My kids are in elementary school and are taught about how this system works. I never heard of the EOAA until two weeks ago. And I graduated from the University. Thus, skepticism.
 

Isn't title ix federally mandated? Doesn't the US have a new president who is not terribly PC? It may well go away.

Yeah, but this isn't about PC. This is about sexual assault and harassment and it's a good way for Trump to show he's not a misogynist given his past of being accused of sexual assault. There's no way Trump goes near this. He has to show he's not a total jerk to women and this is a good way to do it politically.
 

Isn't title ix federally mandated? Doesn't the US have a new president who is not terribly PC? It may well go away.

Title IX could go away. But most universities will continue to handle sexual assault cases exactly as they do now. And we have a pretty good idea which universities will take the opportunity give their athletes a pass on their bad behavior. It is just a matter of priorities for those schools and their fans.
 



You are right to be skeptical in the same way I am skeptical about any court case or administrative determination that doesn't go the way I want it to. Who are the judges, and juries, and hearing officers appointed to decide those cases and disputes?. What are their qualifications? Are they biased? Those questions get asked in every criminal, civil, and administrative proceeding in every state in America. They have been since the Founding Fathers started it all. Injustice occurs every day to people in all walks of life. But some of us just don't care about it until it affects our favorite college football team.

From the beginning you've been critical of anyone who has questioned the EOAA. You've said there is no reason to not believe it is true.
 

The problem with this idea is that people keep acting like the EOAA acted contrary to what the law indicates. Instead what happened is they handled it exactly as courts have said they should handle it.

Actually, the Dept of Education has dictated how to handle this, not the courts, in a letter sent in 2011. If read, it is very enlightening as to why the administration acted as they did. http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201104.html
 

Isn't title ix federally mandated? Doesn't the US have a new president who is not terribly PC? It may well go away.

Even though the Don thinks he will be King, he will not have those powers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Title IX is not going anywhere. I agree that a panel meant to determine academic misconduct or being a bad roommate is not the way to deal with sexual harassment and assault issues, but it's not going away. Academic discipline is completely different from any legal issues, but how do universities handle sexist and discriminatory behavior that is disruptive to the academic experience but not necessarily criminal behavior?

They should do nothing. If someone is arrested they go to jail. If they are convicted then they go to prison. They are out of school either way. The university shouldn't expel people for alleged criminal conduct. It should expel convicts.

It's ok to expel for cheating and disrupting class. It's not ok to expel because someone has loose morals or poor views on gender roles. It is also not ok to expel peopleaccused of crime but not even arrested or convicted.
 

You are right to be skeptical in the same way I am skeptical about any court case or administrative determination that doesn't go the way I want it to. Who are the judges, and juries, and hearing officers appointed to decide those cases and disputes?. What are their qualifications? Are they biased? Those questions get asked in every criminal, civil, and administrative proceeding in every state in America. They have been since the Founding Fathers started it all. Injustice occurs every day to people in all walks of life. But some of us just don't care about it until it affects our favorite college football team.

Disgusting post on multiple levels. The equivalency you're drawing is particularly loathsome.

You judged these people guilty before any report was published. We know what kind of person you are.
 

Yeah, but this isn't about PC. This is about sexual assault and harassment and it's a good way for Trump to show he's not a misogynist given his past of being accused of sexual assault. There's no way Trump goes near this. He has to show he's not a total jerk to women and this is a good way to do it politically.

Wrong. This directly ties to it.
 

Even though the Don thinks he will be King, he will not have those powers.


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Partially wrong. Mandates made im the name of Title IX can be rescinded. Title IX can easily be narrowed.
 

Try working the issue at the federal level. And, try repealing the several laws that fall under that Title. And, when you get on it, what are you going to do with all the millions of protestors that are going to be very much bothered by the repealed laws that protected their rights to fair and equal treatment? Every time you think you are fixing something, you are really bringing back all the faults in the system that existed prior to these laws. So, what are you planning on doing to remedy those faults?

I would love to engage in a conversation about what would change with college athletics if title 9 was ended. Love to.

Oh, and pompous elitist, that was a outstanding post.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I would love to engage in a conversation about what would change with college athletics if title 9 was ended. Love to.

Oh, and pompous elitist, that was a outstanding post.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes.

Also, this "rape affirmative culture" lingo needs to go away. What a bunch of propaganda.
 

Actually, the Dept of Education has dictated how to handle this, not the courts, in a letter sent in 2011. If read, it is very enlightening as to why the administration acted as they did. http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201104.html

Please point to anything the EOAA has done that runs counter to written law or court case rulings. In your research you'll find there have been a lot of cases about university discipline and they all indicate that universities should act just as the EOAA did.
 

It should be added that there is a movement to brand transcripts with a mark of expulsion for sexual misconduct. Bills have passed in several states since 2015 and have also been introduced in the House. These bills would have the effect of permanently barring EEOA-labeled men from higher education despite never having been convicted of a crime.

The politicians are generally too weak to stand up for what's right in these debates as they are quickly labeled pro-rape and pro-crime. Awareness of the nature of these campus persecutions is generally lacking.

From an article

“I reached out and said ‘very few schools do this, and it ought to be done,’” Trible, formerly a Republican U.S. senator and congressman, said. “Displaying this information puts other schools on notice that something serious has occurred and they can better protect their students. The fact that a student will carry this with them for the rest of their life should also act as a powerful deterrent.”
The federal government is also exploring the requirement, with Representative Jackie Speier, a California Democrat, introducing a bill last month that may help close the information gap. During a Senate hearing in December, Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Connecticut Democrat, said too many colleges are only concerned about getting an offender off campus, not about where the student may be headed next. Colleges, he said, should also be more proactive in asking a student's previous college about any disciplinary actions it may have taken.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...al-assault-responsibility-student-transcripts
 

Please point to anything the EOAA has done that runs counter to written law or court case rulings. In your research you'll find there have been a lot of cases about university discipline and they all indicate that universities should act just as the EOAA did.

You're actually right. These Title IX offices just give recommendations and then the University is the one that decides on the actual case. This is why, the second I knew the suspensions were a result of a Title IX investigation, I knew it was going to get really messy. These investigations have NO standards and they aren't really obligated to because IN THEORY the University impartially decides on the issue after reading the report.

There is a giant question of "should these offices have the ability to as powerful as they are?". That debate has gone back and forth and we don't have to rehash it.

The legal issue will come in with the University. The athletes are entitled to Constitutional due process (not at the same level of criminal cases). It is really REALLY difficult to argue that they received a fair hearing when Kaler has acted the way that he has.

That is why the defense of Kaler, by some on this board, is so astounding. No matter where you are on the issue (kick em out!/due process!), Kaler butchered it.
 

It should be added that there is a movement to brand transcripts with a mark of expulsion for sexual misconduct. Bills have passed in several states since 2015 and have also been introduced in the House. These bills would have the effect of permanently barring EEOA-labeled men from higher education despite never having been convicted of a crime.

The politicians are generally too weak to stand up for what's right in these debates as they are quickly labeled pro-rape and pro-crime. Awareness of the nature of these campus persecutions is generally lacking.

From an article

“I reached out and said ‘very few schools do this, and it ought to be done,’” Trible, formerly a Republican U.S. senator and congressman, said. “Displaying this information puts other schools on notice that something serious has occurred and they can better protect their students. The fact that a student will carry this with them for the rest of their life should also act as a powerful deterrent.”
The federal government is also exploring the requirement, with Representative Jackie Speier, a California Democrat, introducing a bill last month that may help close the information gap. During a Senate hearing in December, Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Connecticut Democrat, said too many colleges are only concerned about getting an offender off campus, not about where the student may be headed next. Colleges, he said, should also be more proactive in asking a student's previous college about any disciplinary actions it may have taken.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...al-assault-responsibility-student-transcripts

Yeah, and these cases are absolutely insane.

You want your head to explode, read the facts of a case from Findlay University. The accused are suing the school over some things not really present here, but your head will explode when you read the facts of the case.
 

Yeah, and these cases are absolutely insane.

You want your head to explode, read the facts of a case from Findlay University. The accused are suing the school over some things not really present here, but your head will explode when you read the facts of the case.

Do you have a link or a Web site to see regarding said case?
 

Disclosure of bad behavior is commonplace in many aspects of life. Right now, it is not mandatory to disclose and the U does not amend transcripts to reveal suspensions or expulsions for cause.
 

Disclosure of bad behavior is commonplace in many aspects of life. Right now, it is not mandatory to disclose and the U does not amend transcripts to reveal suspensions or expulsions for cause.

The S stands for Sh*t as in full of sh*t
 





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