Shout out to Gopher Wrestling!

Donate To GopherHole
mggoph

mggoph

Section 112, Row 1
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
901
Reaction score
206
Points
43
National Champs!! Beat Hawkeyes and OSU Cowboys today in Dual Finals! Mods - feel free to move if appropriate
 

HELLZ YEAH!!!!!! Great comeback against the hogeye pig wrestlers and to win the Nat'l title. Great day for MN sports.
 


Great way to set up for Big Ten's and the NCAA Tournament. Congrats Gopher Grapplers, job well done!
 

I feel cheated because the #1 team in the land, Penn State, did not participate.
 



College wrestling is such a strange sport. I am not saying this because the U just won the Duals, but it has always seemed strange to me how the NCAA's are decided. I've always thought college wrestling should have an expanded Dual format for team national championships and then the individual championships ever (essentially the NCAA Championships without the team concept).

Either way, go Gophers!

P.S. Penn St. chose not to compete so Cael could fly his team to Utah to wrestle his brother's team. I know you aren't whining about Penn St. not being there (JackiO), but the Penn St fans who are whining about it, should be writing letters to Cael.
 

There are something like 7 different ranking services for both teams and individuals so there will be some discrepancy. I think the Intermat rankings are probably most widely used, and in those rankings Penn St. was ranked 1st. So prior to the national duals the top 4 rankings went #1 Penn St, #2 Oklahoma St, #3 Minnesota, #4 Iowa. We beat Penn St. at Penn St. earlier in the season and avenged losses @Oklahoma St. and @Iowa in the National duals. The #5 team is Cornell who we unfortunately lost to @Cornell. However, with this tournament win I am sure we will take over the #1 spot.

If you didn't see the matches it was some great wrestling. Iowa is loaded in the early weights and built up a lead, but we came back winning the last 3 matches to win that dual 16-15. Really well done by J Rob and his guys.
 

I believe Cornell lost in the regional qualifier

either to Michigan or Illinois. Too lazy to look up but they participated and lost.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
College wrestling is such a strange sport. I am not saying this because the U just won the Duals, but it has always seemed strange to me how the NCAA's are decided. I've always thought college wrestling should have an expanded Dual format for team national championships and then the individual championships ever (essentially the NCAA Championships without the team concept).

Either way, go Gophers!

P.S. Penn St. chose not to compete so Cael could fly his team to Utah to wrestle his brother's team. I know you aren't whining about Penn St. not being there (JackiO), but the Penn St fans who are whining about it, should be writing letters to Cael.
Click to expand...

Bob -

Your exactly right with regards to Cael, and he has taken a LOT of heat nationally for not being at the duals. Since the Gophers already beat Penn State in a dual meet earlier in the year, I have absolutely no issue in proudly claiming the Gophers the dual meet national champions - even with Penn State missing!

Now, hopefully we can carry things thru at Big10's and NCAA championships -- where we will certainly be competing against Penn State and others for the NCAA title. Go Gophers!
 

For those on the football forum that may not be followers of wrestling, what the Gopher Wrestling Team just accomplished -- beating Iowa and Oklahoma State in consecutive duals meets (two of the most storied programs in collegiate wrestling history) -- would be the equivalent of a football team beating Alabama and LSU in consecutive games. Just wanted to add a little perspective to the discussion for non-wrestling followers!
 

BHgrappler, that comparison is true, although the gopher wrestling team can't be compared to the football team (at least recently). Your comparison stands as long as you thrown in the gophers being USC or texas in comparison to football. The wrestling program has been good to very good for many years ans has won a national championship within the past five years.
 

It'd be more like beating Oklahoma State and Alabama in consecutive days, with LSU deciding not to participate. But still an outstanding victory for the team!
 



Forgive me for my ignorance, as I don't follow wrestling at all (outside of knowing that Roslyn, SD native Logan Storley is on the squad), but it's not at all accurate to call them "national champs" based on winning national duals, is it?
 

The National Duals Championship is a new format that was hosted for the first time this year. It is much more team oriented than what the NCAA's are. They will still have the "regular" NCAA Championships as well. I've attached an article that kind of explains the difference between the two.

http://www.gazettetimes.com/sports/...cle_d7a8e3e6-50f9-11e1-8f03-001871e3ce6c.html

A new wrinkle to the Oregon State wrestling team’s schedule this season is taking part in a national duals tournament right before the conference tournament.

OSU is in a six-team tournament Sunday with Iowa, Iowa State, Northern Iowa, Virginia Tech, and Wisconsin in Ames, Iowa. Seeding will come out today.

Sunday’s competition is part of a bigger 24-team tournament separated into four regionals. The winner of each of the four regionals will meet the following week to crown a national champion.

Sounds logical, and similar to what is done in most other NCAA sports.

However, this is new to wrestling. In the past, the team national championship has been determined by how individuals do at the individual national tournament.

“That’s a really cool concept,” OSU sophomore Scott Sakaguchi said of a dual national title. “The tournament style is different than a dual. One team won’t have a chance to make it through nationals because you might not be a team that can make it through a tournament with enough tough guys to do it, but you might be a really good dual team.”

Most teams know going into the NCAA Championships that they have no shot at the national title since they didn’t qualify anyone in at least one weight class.

And maybe they have good wrestlers for one match at a time, but they can’t win five bouts in three days.

Teams are awarded points for each individual match. So not having enough wrestlers or losing early eliminates teams quickly.

Teams such as the Beavers may have had a stellar, or even undefeated dual meet season, only to finish outside the top 20 at the end.

“I always thought it was odd that there was no dual championship,” Sakaguchi said. “But I also like wrestling that it’s an individual sport. It’s what sets the sport apart. You do things individually to help your team.”

The teams invited to the national dual meet this year were ones organizers felt deserved to be involved. Possibly as soon as next year, qualifying will take place.

A qualifying standard for the national duals will come from success in dual meets and put meaning to all these events that wasn’t there before.

There has been a national dual event in previous years that came early in the season, but it wasn’t a national championship. Teams then went on through the dual meet season and into the usual postseason.

“In the past we had a national dual tournament midseason, but now we want some finality to it,” OSU coach Jim Zalesky said. “Now it’s four regionals, win it to move for a final four the following weekend. They are hoping to make that the national championships for dual meet teams.”

One adjustment expected to be made by the NCAA for next season is to end the dual season at the end of January and have a regional dual tournament the first week of February.

The winner and some wild-cards go to the national duals, and then a final four. That would lead into regional individual qualifying tournaments and the nationals.

“It could spark some interest in the sport,” Zalesky said. “A dual meet is different from a tournament. It might be who doesn’t get pinned. There are so many things that can be affected in a tournament. A dual meet can be about momentum or someone getting upset. We could be down by five going into the last match, so you have to pin the guy to win.”

The national duals and their placement are just other ideas to help streamline and create consistency for wrestlers and fans.

The schedule will have warmup duals early in the winter, holiday tournaments, more duals to qualify for the national duals and then the focus shifts to the individual postseason tournaments the sport is based around.

“It’s a good idea for the dual meets and tournaments to be lined up,” Zalesky said. “We just have to do what’s best for wrestling.”
 

So does that mean there will be 2 national championships every season?
 

I guess you could say there will be 2 championships every season. But in wrestling a dual championship and individual tournament championship are completely different, if you don't follow wresting I wouldn't expect you to understand.
 


Tim Riggins said:
I guess you could say there will be 2 championships every season. But in wrestling a dual championship and individual tournament championship are completely different, if you don't follow wresting I wouldn't expect you to understand.
Click to expand...
I think most folks get that. They're just wondering if this is going to be considered on par with the NCAA championship. Right now it reads like it is a great accomplishment that won't count towards the NCAA titles the program can claim.
 

GoAUpher said:
I think most folks get that. They're just wondering if this is going to be considered on par with the NCAA championship. Right now it reads like it is a great accomplishment that won't count towards the NCAA titles the program can claim.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It seems to me like the duals is the NIT and the individuals is the real deal. I mean, an NIT tournament champion can technically call themselves "national champions", but it doesn't really mean anything to anyone who knows better.
 

This was a great idea for wrestling and for those having trouble understanding

think of it this way. The BCS championship game crowns the national champion in football, but what if the top 24 teams paired off and set up a tournament that crowned the national champion in a true head to head tournament, this would be that tournament. I like crowning a duals champion and individual champions, as they are different formats, much like the a BCS formula for determining who or who doesn't get into which bowl game. I think the NCAA champion will still be based off of the total points of the season ending tournament, but this showed true head to head who wins.
 

SDGopherFan said:
think of it this way. The BCS championship game crowns the national champion in football, but what if the top 24 teams paired off and set up a tournament that crowned the national champion in a true head to head tournament, this would be that tournament. I like crowning a duals champion and individual champions, as they are different formats, much like the a BCS formula for determining who or who doesn't get into which bowl game. I think the NCAA champion will still be based off of the total points of the season ending tournament, but this showed true head to head who wins.
Click to expand...

So, like GoAUpher said, you don't really get to claim "2012 National Champions" or whatever for recruiting and record-keeping purposes?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Exactly. It seems to me like the duals is the NIT and the individuals is the real deal. I mean, an NIT tournament champion can technically call themselves "national champions", but it doesn't really mean anything to anyone who knows better.
Click to expand...


Kind of like football programs claiming BCS, AP, USAToday, UPI as National Championships. No Division I-A (FBS) football school can "technically" call themselves National Champions. NCAA has never awarded a football National Title to I-A programs. Many, however, stake claim to National Championships.

The NCAA Wrestling Championship is, in fact, awarded to the top team totals from the Individual Tourney. Archaic method in my opinion. It is what it is and may or may not be truly reflective of an entire team and their depth. Congrats to Gophers. They've improved tremendously and I tip my hat to them for beating Iowa and Okie State.
 

not sure on that, this is the first year of the tournament and I haven't been able to locate if this is a true "NCAA championship" it might be but not sure. For recruiting this is pretty big but the gophers usually have one of the top rated classes in wrestling anyway. For people that don't follow wrestling this is probably ho-hum not a true title, but for fans of wrestling this was a big deal.
 

SDGopherFan said:
For people that don't follow wrestling this is probably ho-hum not a true title, but for fans of wrestling this was a big deal.
Click to expand...
I don't follow wrestling closely at all (just see the Facebook updates from Gopher Sports when the team is doing well and get excited for them as I do for all Gopher teams) but this still seems like a big deal to me. I'm just a stickler for understanding the meaning of new titles like this so I don't make the mistake of calling the Gophers the NCAA Duals National Champion if that isn't actually what this is. If it's not, it seems like it should be based on the fact that it creates a more accurate "team" title.
 

They are NWCA/Cliff Keen (National Wrestling Coaching Association) Division I National Dual Meet Champions. The tournament is not NCAA sanctioned at this point. Penn State completely blew off the tournament and the association drawing some criticism from the likes of JRob and others heavily influential in the sport.
[h=1][/h]It's similar to the MSHSL tournaments for Swimming and Track. Individual vs. True Team champions.
 

yes, as well as high school wrestling in the state of MN is set up as individual and team seperate.
 

Years ago the state of Minnesota realized that the State Championship could be won with as few as 3 or 4 real good wrestlers if the tournament was balanced. Minnesota now has two tournaments - One that crowns individual champions and a the dual championship that crowns the team champion. That is what the wrestling coaches in college are trying to start. The real excitement in the MN state tournament happens in a close dual match.
 

Gold Vision said:
They are NWCA/Cliff Keen (National Wrestling Coaching Association) Division I National Dual Meet Champions. The tournament is not NCAA sanctioned at this point. Penn State completely blew off the tournament and the association drawing some criticism from the likes of JRob and others heavily influential in the sport.
[h=1][/h]It's similar to the MSHSL tournaments for Swimming and Track. Individual vs. True Team champions.
Click to expand...
This. The comparisons to football and others don't make sense. The National Duals means the same as a True Team track state champion. It's an invitational tournament. You have to qualify for the NCAA's. While a great accomplishment and valuable mat time for the top wrestlers, it doesn't mean the same as a true NC. Still, it's a cool concept -- a dual meet national champion.
 

dpodoll68 said:
So does that mean there will be 2 national championships every season?
Click to expand...

As was previously mentioned, this was the first year of the national duals championships, which was sponsored by the National Wrestling Coaches Association (NWCA). The NWCA is working very hard with the NCAA to have this event become a full-fledged NCAA sponsored championship event, in addition to the NCAA Individual Tournament.

As someone else pointed out, they really are two different things -- as the National Duals championship would be team based, whereas the Indvidual Tournament is just those individuals (from each team) that qualify out of their conference tournaments competing for the top 8 places awarded in each weight class.

So....yes, assuming the NCAA eventually recognizes and sponsors the dual championships, there would be 2 national championships awared each season.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom