Short Cuts

MrC

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I have been thinking about Coach Kill's insistence on not taking short cuts, on doing things the "right" way. I was sure that is meant to be a contrast with his predecesor.

However, I think we are seeing a great deal of evidence for the consequences of short cuts in our local pro team. Veteran quarterback quick fixes perhaps most on all. And now, a damn mess.

We know one coach, Jerry Kill, is ready and willing to delay gratification this or next year to build a brighter future four years from now. I am bought into that vision.

Will the other coach see it the same way, or will he follow his predesessor to ultimate futility.

Jerry's steadfast determination to do things right is the brightest, most consistent hope I see this long and difficult season.
 

I have been thinking about Coach Kill's insistence on not taking short cuts, on doing things the "right" way. I was sure that is meant to be a contrast with his predecesor.

However, I think we are seeing a great deal of evidence for the consequences of short cuts in our local pro team. Veteran quarterback quick fixes perhaps most on all. And now, a damn mess.

We know one coach, Jerry Kill, is ready and willing to delay gratification this or next year to build a brighter future four years from now. I am bought into that vision.

Will the other coach see it the same way, or will he follow his predesessor to ultimate futility.

Jerry's steadfast determination to do things right is the brightest, most consistent hope I see this long and difficult season.
Well they drafted a quarterback 12th overall, so I'd say Frazier gets it.
 

I have been thinking about Coach Kill's insistence on not taking short cuts, on doing things the "right" way. I was sure that is meant to be a contrast with his predecesor.

However, I think we are seeing a great deal of evidence for the consequences of short cuts in our local pro team. Veteran quarterback quick fixes perhaps most on all. And now, a damn mess.

We know one coach, Jerry Kill, is ready and willing to delay gratification this or next year to build a brighter future four years from now. I am bought into that vision.

Will the other coach see it the same way, or will he follow his predesessor to ultimate futility.

Jerry's steadfast determination to do things right is the brightest, most consistent hope I see this long and difficult season.

Funny, delayed gratification is an adult expression based on the need to delay satisfaction in order to control appetite, and lose weight -- largely resulting in yo-yo weight gain and loss. That has been another proven myth that you need to diet in some puritanical effort to lose weight. Is that really the expression you were looking for!

If I delay a payment, I will have more money...

If we borrow more money now, we can dig ourselves out of our debt....

Really, doesn't life tell you to react more rationally when your head is getting kicked in by the mugger; and, that he isn't borrowing the money! It isn't a fricking loan.

'Doing it right' is a euphemism for we haven't a clue how to salvage year one. Instead of improving the seniors and juniors, they are putting all their effort into working with the underclassmen. To me, that is tantamount to negligence of management. Giving up on the upperclassmen to improve future years is stealing from this year in the hope that it works out better in the end. It is irrational thinking, even mystical thinking to think this is a good course of action. This week our BCS rank is 118th. Did we really lose so many seniors last year that we have dropped by 30 positions to the very bottom? I don't think that is a rational drop. It is a drop based on some other factor, namely coaching.

Two years ago, we had an offensive line with problems. Some guys graduated, and the line started awfully last year. But, as the season progressed, the line progressed and became more dominating. This year we have started off slowly along the line. But, there is zero evidence that their performance is improving. Some are blaming the players. It isn't the players, it is the staff who has trained them poorly. Just because a coach is loved at practice, instructs them, and puts them through the motions repeatedly, does not mean the training is effective right now. It obviously isn't working because it isn't translating to the field of play.

And, again, we are to believe that this staff will train up the near rejects of a recruiting class coming in to make our team better down the line. If they can't do it with what we have now, how is it that it will be done in the future? That is a rational expectation and has yet to be explained how exactly that works THIS YEAR and NEXT. How will next year produce better results than this year? How!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Train em up is a theory. What evidence does anybody have that it will occur in future years with this staff?!?!?!?!?!?!? It isn't happening right now because nobody has shown any evidence statistical or otherwise that it is working other than the immaterial "the players love them" argument and the "practices are so well run" canard; or the 'we ran the kickoff to the house one time this year', wink wink, hope we have another soon!

What exactly is Kills plan to do things "right"? The usual GH trash is that he is chasing down players to go to class (not his job, but oh well, he's doing it anyway!); strength and conditioning (oh my, we have won the 4th quarter battle, even though we are down a collective 100 points by then); fitting the right players into his system (damn, these 2 star guys can tackle, run, and score in high school!!! They have football heart and balls and gee their from homey Minnesota by the way -- where all the men are good looking and the women strong!); and that final gem, our guy knows more than their guy!"

I hate mystical thinking. I hate jackass Americans who practice mystical thinking day after day.

I wouldn't profess to want short cuts, I want immediate corrective action. The bow is underwater and people are calling for a new ship to be built out at the docks! F-ing amazing thinking and they call it short cuts!!! We, in the life jackets, we will just hope we won't be consumed by sharks before then; because we most certainly will be swimming next to them for the next few months.
 

Funny, delayed gratification is an adult expression based on the need to delay satisfaction in order to control appetite, and lose weight -- largely resulting in yo-yo weight gain and loss.

WTF?

Seriously, I'm at a loss for words.

As for the rest of your post...I really could't read past that sentence.
 

Shortcut
1. A route more direct than the one ordinarily taken
2. A method or means of doing something more directly and quickly than by ordinary procedure




Yes please!
 


Funny, delayed gratification is an adult expression based on the need to delay satisfaction in order to control appetite, and lose weight -- largely resulting in yo-yo weight gain and loss. That has been another proven myth that you need to diet in some puritanical effort to lose weight. Is that really the expression you were looking for!

If I delay a payment, I will have more money...

If we borrow more money now, we can dig ourselves out of our debt....

Really, doesn't life tell you to react more rationally when your head is getting kicked in by the mugger; and, that he isn't borrowing the money! It isn't a fricking loan.

'Doing it right' is a euphemism for we haven't a clue how to salvage year one. Instead of improving the seniors and juniors, they are putting all their effort into working with the underclassmen. To me, that is tantamount to negligence of management. Giving up on the upperclassmen to improve future years is stealing from this year in the hope that it works out better in the end. It is irrational thinking, even mystical thinking to think this is a good course of action. This week our BCS rank is 118th. Did we really lose so many seniors last year that we have dropped by 30 positions to the very bottom? I don't think that is a rational drop. It is a drop based on some other factor, namely coaching.

Two years ago, we had an offensive line with problems. Some guys graduated, and the line started awfully last year. But, as the season progressed, the line progressed and became more dominating. This year we have started off slowly along the line. But, there is zero evidence that their performance is improving. Some are blaming the players. It isn't the players, it is the staff who has trained them poorly. Just because a coach is loved at practice, instructs them, and puts them through the motions repeatedly, does not mean the training is effective right now. It obviously isn't working because it isn't translating to the field of play.

And, again, we are to believe that this staff will train up the near rejects of a recruiting class coming in to make our team better down the line. If they can't do it with what we have now, how is it that it will be done in the future? That is a rational expectation and has yet to be explained how exactly that works THIS YEAR and NEXT. How will next year produce better results than this year? How!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Train em up is a theory. What evidence does anybody have that it will occur in future years with this staff?!?!?!?!?!?!? It isn't happening right now because nobody has shown any evidence statistical or otherwise that it is working other than the immaterial "the players love them" argument and the "practices are so well run" canard; or the 'we ran the kickoff to the house one time this year', wink wink, hope we have another soon!

What exactly is Kills plan to do things "right"? The usual GH trash is that he is chasing down players to go to class (not his job, but oh well, he's doing it anyway!); strength and conditioning (oh my, we have won the 4th quarter battle, even though we are down a collective 100 points by then); fitting the right players into his system (damn, these 2 star guys can tackle, run, and score in high school!!! They have football heart and balls and gee their from homey Minnesota by the way -- where all the men are good looking and the women strong!); and that final gem, our guy knows more than their guy!"

I hate mystical thinking. I hate jackass Americans who practice mystical thinking day after day.

I wouldn't profess to want short cuts, I want immediate corrective action. The bow is underwater and people are calling for a new ship to be built out at the docks! F-ing amazing thinking and they call it short cuts!!! We, in the life jackets, we will just hope we won't be consumed by sharks before then; because we most certainly will be swimming next to them for the next few months.

As usual, some coherent, understandable ideas buried beneath a mountain of tiresome histrionics and shouting.

PROTIP: Make sure you've stopped hyperventilating before you click "post."
 

I enjoyed your post oneoldgopher, can't say I agree with all of it, but I share some of your frustrations.
 

I enjoyed your post oneoldgopher, can't say I agree with all of it, but I share some of your frustrations.

I also liked it. I don't think this staff has differentiated themselves from other staffs on the field, enough to get excited about the future. Let 'er rip !
 

I would really like to know on which planet it is the case that a college coach, in any sport, is not responsible for making sure his/her players go to class. Thanks in advance!
 



I agree with the OP. I think we could have lost much closer games if we were playing our Juniors and Seniors. I also think we'd win an additional game next year if we load up on jucos. At this point in the program, however, I am much les concerned about this year and next than I am about the long term. I would like to see Kill continue to gain his young (future) players some experience so that we have decent Juniors and Seniors when they advance that far.
While I don't necessarily believe that short-term and long-term success are mutually exclusive, I think it might be the case in the current state of the program. Just my opinion.
 

I love how the armchair coaches know how to run a better program. You want coach Kill to run a program your way and not the way he is most comfortable doing. He has done it this way for years and has been successful in building programs everywhere he has been. Will that work here I don't know, but I want him to do it his way and the way he knows best.

Here is a stat to back up that there is no grand way of doing things. Take a look at coaches that were hired from 2004-2008 and are still with the same team in 2011. 19 of those coaches won the first year, 2 were .500, and 20 had losing seasons. Those records are likely more affected by talent left by previous coach then coaching ability.
 


I agree with the OP. I think we could have lost much closer games if we were playing our Juniors and Seniors. I also think we'd win an additional game next year if we load up on jucos. At this point in the program, however, I am much les concerned about this year and next than I am about the long term. I would like to see Kill continue to gain his young (future) players some experience so that we have decent Juniors and Seniors when they advance that far.
While I don't necessarily believe that short-term and long-term success are mutually exclusive, I think it might be the case in the current state of the program. Just my opinion.

well stated. this is a viewpoint (a correct one, i might add) that i think some other gopher fans need to learn and accept as well.
 



Funny, delayed gratification is an adult expression based on the need to delay satisfaction in order to control appetite, and lose weight -- largely resulting in yo-yo weight gain and loss. That has been another proven myth that you need to diet in some puritanical effort to lose weight. Is that really the expression you were looking for!

If I delay a payment, I will have more money...

If we borrow more money now, we can dig ourselves out of our debt....

Really, doesn't life tell you to react more rationally when your head is getting kicked in by the mugger; and, that he isn't borrowing the money! It isn't a fricking loan.

'Doing it right' is a euphemism for we haven't a clue how to salvage year one.
Instead of improving the seniors and juniors, they are putting all their effort into working with the underclassmen.
To me, that is tantamount to negligence of management. Giving up on the upperclassmen to improve future years is stealing from this year in the hope that it works out better in the end. It is irrational thinking, even mystical thinking to think this is a good course of action. This week our BCS rank is 118th. Did we really lose so many seniors last year that we have dropped by 30 positions to the very bottom? I don't think that is a rational drop. It is a drop based on some other factor, namely coaching.

Two years ago, we had an offensive line with problems. Some guys graduated, and the line started awfully last year. But, as the season progressed, the line progressed and became more dominating. This year we have started off slowly along the line. But, there is zero evidence that their performance is improving. Some are blaming the players. It isn't the players, it is the staff who has trained them poorly. Just because a coach is loved at practice, instructs them, and puts them through the motions repeatedly, does not mean the training is effective right now. It obviously isn't working because it isn't translating to the field of play.

And, again, we are to believe that this staff will train up the near rejects of a recruiting class coming in to make our team better down the line. If they can't do it with what we have now, how is it that it will be done in the future? That is a rational expectation and has yet to be explained how exactly that works THIS YEAR and NEXT. How will next year produce better results than this year? How!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Train em up is a theory. What evidence does anybody have that it will occur in future years with this staff?!?!?!?!?!?!? It isn't happening right now because nobody has shown any evidence statistical or otherwise that it is working other than the immaterial "the players love them" argument and the "practices are so well run" canard; or the 'we ran the kickoff to the house one time this year', wink wink, hope we have another soon!

What exactly is Kills plan to do things "right"? The usual GH trash is that he is chasing down players to go to class (not his job, but oh well, he's doing it anyway!); strength and conditioning (oh my, we have won the 4th quarter battle, even though we are down a collective 100 points by then); fitting the right players into his system (damn, these 2 star guys can tackle, run, and score in high school!!! They have football heart and balls and gee their from homey Minnesota by the way -- where all the men are good looking and the women strong!); and that final gem, our guy knows more than their guy!"

I hate mystical thinking. I hate jackass Americans who practice mystical thinking day after day.

I wouldn't profess to want short cuts, I want immediate corrective action. The bow is underwater and people are calling for a new ship to be built out at the docks! F-ing amazing thinking and they call it short cuts!!! We, in the life jackets, we will just hope we won't be consumed by sharks before then; because we most certainly will be swimming next to them for the next few months.

OOG, what senior/juniors are being neglected? Last time I checked, we started 3 seniors across the O-line, a junior QB, a senior RB, senior TE, senior WR. Granted, some of them have been replaced due to lack of production, but is that the coaches fault? Is it the coaching staff's fault that they have to bring in RS Freshman Zac Epping to play RG because RS Senior Orton can't get a push? On defense, Kirksey, Jacobs, Tinsley, Royston, and Stoudemire (until his injury) have all gotten the majority of the minutes. Please let me know the senior/junior who has blown you away and is sitting on the bench despite outplaying the younger guys.

As far as evidence that we will have better results in the future, WE HAVE A STAFF WITH A HISTORY OF TURNING AROUND PROGRAMS! Maybe you haven't read their bio's yet, if not I'd highly recommend it. Unlike TB, they have come to us with a track record of being successful. If this staff can't get it turned around, I'd like to know who it's going to be?

We've all been frustrated with this season because we've see zero improvement so far. But I'll take Kill's 17 years of proving it on the field versus what I've seen in 6 games for now.
 

OOG, what senior/juniors are being neglected? Last time I checked, we started 3 seniors across the O-line, a junior QB, a senior RB, senior TE, senior WR. Granted, some of them have been replaced due to lack of production, but is that the coaches fault? Is it the coaching staff's fault that they have to bring in RS Freshman Zac Epping to play RG because RS Senior Orton can't get a push? On defense, Kirksey, Jacobs, Tinsley, Royston, and Stoudemire (until his injury) have all gotten the majority of the minutes. Please let me know the senior/junior who has blown you away and is sitting on the bench despite outplaying the younger guys.

Yep, I can't think of any upperclassmen who aren't getting PT that would if we weren't in "rebuild mode".

Gray-McKnight-Bennett-Lair-McGarry-Orton-Wynn-Bunders-Wilhite-Kirksey-Jacobs-Cooper (a litttle banged up)-Tinsley-Rallis-Stoudermire-Salamon-Royston...................all are getting as much PT as anyone would have thought going into the season.

Who are the upperclassmen on the bench?
 



I suppose Carter is one, but I don't really think he is being benched because we are planning for the future. I mean, he has been replaced largely by Kyle Henderson.

I guess I just can't think of an upperclassman who isn't getting PT because we are wanting to move on to younger players.
 

Edited for nonsense

'Doing it right' is a euphemism for we haven't a clue how to salvage year one. Instead of improving the seniors and juniors, they are putting all their effort into working with the underclassmen. To me, that is tantamount to negligence of management. Giving up on the upperclassmen to improve future years is stealing from this year in the hope that it works out better in the end. It is irrational thinking, even mystical thinking to think this is a good course of action. This week our BCS rank is 118th. Did we really lose so many seniors last year that we have dropped by 30 positions to the very bottom? I don't think that is a rational drop. It is a drop based on some other factor, namely coaching.

WOW. Ok. Nobody has "given up' on upperclassmen. Kill simply is developing the younger kids on the team by getting them PT. Doing this will ensure that in year 3 he doesn't have to start 11 new kids on defense like we did last season. He's also quite frankly giving everyone on the team a gut check, finding out who will coast when the score seems insurmountable. Apparently some of the upperclassmen do in fact accept defeat, some of the younger kids show gumption and resolve to play hard even when the chips are down, which will pay dividends down the road when they are on equal physical terms with the teams they play, AND have the mental toughness to out compete or outlast them.

Two years ago, we had an offensive line with problems. Some guys graduated, and the line started awfully last year. But, as the season progressed, the line progressed and became more dominating. This year we have started off slowly along the line. But, there is zero evidence that their performance is improving. I'd argue the line didn't play well until the Iowa game, which was after a bye and had 3 seniors and a junior anchoring it, we may yet see our 3 seniors pull it together, but largely after that we have freshmen/sophs up front which is not a good thing

Some are blaming the players. It isn't the players, it is the staff who has trained them poorly. Agreed, now those coaches are gone and the players are left with poor technique/scrambled thoughts due to multiple schemes

Just because a coach is loved at practice, instructs them, and puts them through the motions repeatedly, does not mean the training is effective right now.

Agreed, it will take time.

It obviously isn't working because it isn't translating to the field of play.

What? Really jumping to conclusions here, stability will help, right now these kids are obviously thinking too much which is the root of the miscues on the field, more time in the O/D, more time with the current coaches will lead to improved on field results.

And, again, we are to believe that this staff will train up the near rejects of a recruiting class coming in to make our team better down the line. If they can't do it with what we have now, how is it that it will be done in the future? That is a rational expectation and has yet to be explained how exactly that works THIS YEAR and NEXT. How will next year produce better results than this year?

Way to label athletes excited about coming here to represent the U as rejects, you're a tool for saying that. This staff has already shown they can find kids under the radar, and that's with half a recruiting class, they are also identifying a different type of athlete, i would argue that you can see they prefer hungry overachievers, high character, and high academic achievers over a "star" athlete who believes his commitment here will ensure preferential treatment and/or hero worship, in short no high maintenance kids, and yes I believe we have had several under the previous staff
How!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Train em up is a theory. What evidence does anybody have that it will occur in future years with this staff?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Kill's record of beating programs supposedly superior to his and his long track record of winning, even in the most dire circumstances like SIU where they were seriously thinking of closing the program down, do some reading

It isn't happening right now because nobody has shown any evidence statistical or otherwise that it is working other than the immaterial "the players love them" argument and the "practices are so well run" canard; or the 'we ran the kickoff to the house one time this year', wink wink, hope we have another soon!

I actually agree, the progress is immaterial at this point, Kill has said as much, but the program is being rebuilt top to bottom, it will take more than 6 games. i can see your patience is nonexistent and you require immediate gratification

What exactly is Kills plan to do things "right"? The usual GH trash is that he is chasing down players to go to class (not his job, but oh well, he's doing it anyway!); strength and conditioning (oh my, we have won the 4th quarter battle, even though we are down a collective 100 points by then); fitting the right players into his system (damn, these 2 star guys can tackle, run, and score in high school!!! They have football heart and balls and gee their from homey Minnesota by the way -- where all the men are good looking and the women strong!); and that final gem, our guy knows more than their guy!"
YEP, because IT MAKES SENSE!, all those things make sense and if you can't see that you're out of it. Seriously there's more to college football than what happens on gameday, it's what we judge everything by, but good programs do 99% of their work the other days of the year

I hate mystical thinking. I hate jackass Americans who practice mystical thinking day after day. ??????

I wouldn't profess to want short cuts, I want immediate corrective action.
AKA shortcuts

The bow is underwater and people are calling for a new ship to be built out at the docks! F-ing amazing thinking and they call it short cuts!!! We, in the life jackets, we will just hope we won't be consumed by sharks before then; because we most certainly will be swimming next to them for the next few months.
AKA you want shortcuts made right NOW!!! and you're not going to wait AT ALL whaaaa whaaa waaaaa:cry:
.
 

ok, I read OOG's entire post and what I took from it is? can anyone help me on this. he offers no solution other than what? is he indicating that 9 months into the job the coaching staff should be fired?
 

I wouldn't profess to want short cuts, I want immediate corrective action. The bow is underwater and people are calling for a new ship to be built out at the docks! F-ing amazing thinking and they call it short cuts!!! We, in the life jackets, we will just hope we won't be consumed by sharks before then; because we most certainly will be swimming next to them for the next few months.

Wow. Just...wow. I could laugh at this for a long time.
 

Old worn out ships are commonly scrapped and replaced by new ships. Should we put another patch on the hull and ignore the rust and dents? I suppose a little bondo will fix it right up?
 


Old worn out ships are commonly scrapped and replaced by new ships. Should we put another patch on the hull and ignore the rust and dents? I suppose a little bondo will fix it right up?

This is ridiculous RR. OOG already said he is opposed to shortcuts. I mean, he then went on to describe a hopeless scenario where rescuing the stranded passengers and then building a new boat is the only non-short cut solution and demanded an immediate fix, but yea! No short cuts! Or something....
 

I suppose Carter is one, but I don't really think he is being benched because we are planning for the future. I mean, he has been replaced largely by Kyle Henderson.

I guess I just can't think of an upperclassman who isn't getting PT because we are wanting to move on to younger players.

There are none. The guys who get beat early in games are the upperclassmen, it's not like we're starting games with freshmen all over the place. DE is the only spot I can recall having freshman doing a lot. Otherwise, it seems like a lot of these young guys are getting time because we're getting beat down early in games and it becomes eval time by halftime. If we were to actually play a game into the fourth instead of getting drilled by the 2nd quarter, I think you'd see a different crop of players out there in the 3rd and 4th quarters.
 

There are none. The guys who get beat early in games are the upperclassmen, it's not like we're starting games with freshmen all over the place. DE is the only spot I can recall having freshman doing a lot. Otherwise, it seems like a lot of these young guys are getting time because we're getting beat down early in games and it becomes eval time by halftime. If we were to actually play a game into the fourth instead of getting drilled by the 2nd quarter, I think you'd see a different crop of players out there in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

+1
 

I wouldn't profess to want short cuts, I want immediate corrective action. The bow is underwater and people are calling for a new ship to be built out at the docks! F-ing amazing thinking and they call it short cuts!!! We, in the life jackets, we will just hope we won't be consumed by sharks before then; because we most certainly will be swimming next to them for the next few months.

Last time I checked, we've been under water for fifty years. It will take four years just to clean the barnacles off administrative indifference to a winning football program. More important than Kill's ability and commitment to turn around this ship is President Kaler's vision and support for a winning athletics program. The whole campus culture has to change from as simple as having the area around the stadium closed during game weekends to provide space for fans to mingle and celebrate to the college president, the AD, and the coaches being in the same page. If Donna Shalala & Barry Alvarez can turn Wisky around, so can Kaler & Kill. But, it will take time. Look how long it took Wisky & Iowee. It is not going to be easy. Look at how formidable the Big Ten line up is.
 




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