Shooter: In case you hadn’t noticed, most defensive starters Gophers lost from last season, when the team finished 11-2, were Kill-Claeys recruits

BleedGopher

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per Shooter:

In case you hadn’t noticed, most of the defensive starters the Gophers lost from last season, when the team finished 11-2, were Jerry Kill-Tracy Claeys recruits.


Go Gophers!!
 

Good god Shooter is an ahole.
 


You guys aren't wrong .... but neither is he.

Take a nice long look at these two lists:
https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2017-Football/Commits/
https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2018-Football/Commits/

Tell me which guys on there are playmakers, making a difference on defense right now? Pretty thin.

2017:
Handy-Holly - left
Beck - left
Robinson - left
J Harris - starting Nickle CB (shares time with Aune)
Estes - left
Silver - JUCO graduated
Mafe - comes in as a pass rusher
Guthrie - bust, doesn't play
Otomewo - starting DE, but isn't doing much
Hickcox - bust, doesn't play

2018:
Reigelsperger - left
Teague - apparently is taking a redshirt/opt-out this year
T Smith - backup, hasn't done much when given a chance so far
Sapp - left
N-Okonji - left
Ahanotu - left
Oliver - hurt during spring, taking a redshirt/medical this year
Rush - starting 2-point End, but isn't doing much
MSM - starting MLB, but isn't doing much

CJ Smith - left
Aune - starting 2nd OLB (shares time with J Harris)
 
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Yes, let’s lament the staff that gave us 4 years of leidner and effing 10-7 Kent st wins. Or the 2016 14-7 Iowa loss at home.
 



You guys aren't wrong .... but neither is he.

Take a nice long look at these two lists:
https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2017-Football/Commits/
https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2018-Football/Commits/

Tell me which guys on there are playmakers, making a difference on defense right now? Pretty thin.

2017:
Handy-Holly - left
Beck - left
Robinson - left
J Harris - starting Nickle CB (shares time with Aune)
Estes - left
Silver - JUCO graduated
Mafe - comes in as a pass rusher
Guthrie - bust, doesn't play
Otomewo - starting DE, but isn't doing much
Hickcox - bust, doesn't play

2018:
Reigelsperger - left
Teague - apparently is taking a redshirt/opt-out this year
T Smith - backup, hasn't done much when given a chance so far
Sapp - left
N-Okonji - left
Ahanotu - left
Oliver - hurt during spring, taking a redshirt/medical this year
Rush - starting 2-point End, but isn't doing much
MSM - starting MLB, but isn't doing much

CJ Smith - left
Aune - starting 2nd OLB (shares time with J Harris)

Definitely seeing the impact of early recruiting and attrition on defense. 2017 was a toss together class due to the coaching change and 2018 was still early in the Fleck tenure and before we started showing some real signs of being relevant on the national stage. We hit some major home runs on offense in 2018, unfortunately has not played out that way on offense.

The downside to all this is that you graduate a lot of senior leadership from the 2016 class and are forced to rely on guys who are not at the same caliber as the guys you are recruiting now to be your leaders while the young guys develop and get to the point where they are ready to play.
 


I am not going to go back and do the reseach (maybe Shooter could) but a number of the starters on Jerry Kill's best team were Brewster recruits including 2nd round draft pick Rashede Hageman. In the Claeys year preceding Fleck's hire, the Gopher defense gave up 32 points at home to Rutgers that would go 0-9 in the conference and 31 points at home to Purdue who go 1-8 in the conference. There's an inference being made by some about a group of coaches that had 6 years and couldn't come close to accomplishing what PJ did in year 3.
 



I am not going to go back and do the reseach (maybe Shooter could) but a number of the starters on Jerry Kill's best team were Brewster recruits including 2nd round draft pick Rashede Hageman. In the Claeys year preceding Fleck's hire, the Gopher defense gave up 32 points at home to Rutgers that would go 0-9 in the conference and 31 points at home to Purdue who go 1-8 in the conference. There's an inference being made by some about a group of coaches that had 6 years and couldn't come close to accomplishing what PJ did in year 3.
Yeah.

And then there is this:


Kill and claeys aren’t coming back. Time for people to get over it.



Everyone who wants to fire the DC/OC/Head coach right now is free to think so. But even if we did, kill and claeys aren’t coming back.
 

There's an inference being made by some about a group of coaches that had 6 years and couldn't come close to accomplishing what PJ did in year 3.

Agreed, but I told my friends that I am now really glad we went to two extra road games last year and really enjoyed the season while it was happening. Right now it looks like a 4 to 5 year path to get back to there. We look like a total rebuild on defense and best case we get that done in two years and then we are a total rebuild on offense. That is if we can start to recruit defensive players that can play defense, not just win wind sprints at Nike camps.

It looks like there is no one on this staff that has the knack for identifying football players on defense. The best tackler on the team right now is a walk-on from Prior Lake that is sitting on special teams.

MSM is a real issue right now, you can't be the leader of the linebacking core and be that poor of a tackler.
 

I am not going to go back and do the reseach (maybe Shooter could) but a number of the starters on Jerry Kill's best team were Brewster recruits including 2nd round draft pick Rashede Hageman. In the Claeys year preceding Fleck's hire, the Gopher defense gave up 32 points at home to Rutgers that would go 0-9 in the conference and 31 points at home to Purdue who go 1-8 in the conference. There's an inference being made by some about a group of coaches that had 6 years and couldn't come close to accomplishing what PJ did in year 3.
Yup, I was just thinking this yesterday but was too lazy to go back and pull up those scores. MN needed a 50+ yard FG from Santoso to win that PU game. Can't remember the final against RU, but I think they had the ball with a chance to win under 2 min left.

Gophers football is now what it has been during most of our lifetimes: inconsistent, occasionally euphoric, more frequently disappointing or borderline heartbreaking. I've reset my expectations for this year, which is really sad...but reality has kicked in.
 




Agreed, but I told my friends that I am now really glad we went to two extra road games last year and really enjoyed the season while it was happening. Right now it looks like a 4 to 5 year path to get back to there. We look like a total rebuild on defense and best case we get that done in two years and then we are a total rebuild on offense. That is if we can start to recruit defensive players that can play defense, not just win wind sprints at Nike camps.

It looks like there is no one on this staff that has the knack for identifying football players on defense. The best tackler on the team right now is a walk-on from Prior Lake that is sitting on special teams.

MSM is a real issue right now, you can't be the leader of the linebacking core and be that poor of a tackler.

I know it has looked bad through two weeks but your outlook might be a little on the pessimistic side. Guys like Gordon and Willis are just getting their first taste of action along with others. Even a guy like Nubin is just in his second year.

MSM isn't a stud but he also was not some highly rated top recruit either. Through attrition and other factors our defensive recruits from 2017 and 2018 have not been on par with the offensive guys we brought in with those classes which is clearly hurting us at the moment. I know I for one was hoping we would see more out of Otomewo and Mafe then we have to this point.

Far too early to make any kind of calls about the 2019 and 2020 guys and there are some exciting prospects coming in with the 2021 class with Dickerson, Ortiz, and Eastern.

No doubt it has been disappointing to see how bad the D has struggled thus far. I expected some growing pains but nothing along this level. But we have to all be patient and not just give up on young players because they struggle early.
 

I don't think anyone is questioning that Claeys/Kill had good players. Some great players. But so does Fleck. If I had to take Fleck's recruiting over a 5-6 year period or Kills/Claeys, I'll take Fleck. Its a work in progress no doubt and a frustrating one. Replacing 7 starters from a good defense isn't something this program is equipped to do. This is a learning year for a lot of teams. I think it'll get better and the team will be ready next year.

tl;dr

Shooter blows
 

How many years has Fleck been recruiting on this team? You have to admit, the previous coaches sure had some studs in that last group.
 

True and one of them was a DC . PJF is a salesman, I mean this as a compliment, but he played and really only knows the WR position well. He has to rely on quality assistants and recruiters like all good coaches. We clearly lack depth, talent , speed and coaching skills on D. I trust he will make improvements but I don't think we are going to be a contending team this season. I hope they all prove me wrong.
 


Agreed, but I told my friends that I am now really glad we went to two extra road games last year and really enjoyed the season while it was happening. Right now it looks like a 4 to 5 year path to get back to there. We look like a total rebuild on defense and best case we get that done in two years and then we are a total rebuild on offense. That is if we can start to recruit defensive players that can play defense, not just win wind sprints at Nike camps.

It looks like there is no one on this staff that has the knack for identifying football players on defense. The best tackler on the team right now is a walk-on from Prior Lake that is sitting on special teams.

MSM is a real issue right now, you can't be the leader of the linebacking core and be that poor of a tackler.
This is my biggest concern right now (Rossi).

Does Rossi really have what it takes? This is his Defense. He was living off previous staff's players, and now, it's his guys (not all obviously as he's only been in place not even 2 years as DC). Fleck has said he's not an X's and O's guy and leaves it to the coordinators to make their calls. He will, when he deems as critical times, provide input OR change the calls to go for it on 4rth down or whatever (I don't think he said he makes the final call... but I imagine as the HC and knowing how detailed he is, he most certainly does) as ultimately, this is his team.

Let's look at recruiting then; does Fleck leave the INITIAL targets to the coordinators as to whom we should be going after, and then he takes the ball based on how critical these recruits might be to his program, and works on closing the deal with these high profile recruits? Does that mean the list of recruits (offensively AND defensively) are developed by the coordinators and other staff members and given to Fleck?

I really have no clue (obviously right... LOL) but seems like he's more Offensive minded and therefore he truly does leave the Defensive recruiting LIST creation to Rossi et al?? I mean, ultimately yes, he's the accountable one for what is on the field, but I truly wonder how much input he has on WHO we initially target? To me on the defensive side of the ball, based purely off results in these 2 games while realizing much of the season is left, we've missed on impact players big time in the last 3 (really 4, but Fleck's first cycle, he get's a pass due to the scramble he was in) years.

One part to look at as well is the development of the talent brought in. Seems like the graduating class last year developed relatively well. What about the Rossi classes? Maybe there hasn't been enough to time yet to determine this, but looking at what we currently have on the field... really makes you wonder how well they've been coached. Part of the problem is the revolving door on Defense with the coaching staff as well I think. I don't know, just throwing stuff at the wall I guess.

I really hate to be this negative, certainly after what was done last year! I guess I have fan PTSD when it comes to the Gophers (and the way they lose games!!!!) and really, when it comes to their Defense!!
 
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True and one of them was a DC . PJF is a salesman, I mean this as a compliment, but he played and really only knows the WR position well. He has to rely on quality assistants and recruiters like all good coaches. We clearly lack depth, talent , speed and coaching skills on D. I trust he will make improvements but I don't think we are going to be a contending team this season. I hope they all prove me wrong.
He has been provided a very nice life style, thank you to the Minnesota tax payers. Millions in pay, a 200 million dollars work out facility, not to mention a new stadium to play in. When you see how hard the average family has to work every day to maintain and you see all that has been given to these coaches. There primary job requirement includes being competitive with the other teams that they are competing against. He as been allowed several years to simply be competitive with his own players and his team plays like that? I have to scratch my head.
 


Pretty tough to come back and play great defense when you lose the starters we did. Given that, is this staff good enough to have seen this coming two seasons ago? I am not a football coach but it looks like our replacements are very far behind the curve in regards to taking angles and playing their gaps. Fundamental stuff I am not seeing. This is a weird year and one can make a case for some excuses.
 

oh, i've definitely noticed because ol' jer' is a ball coach, it's who he is, it's in his blood. he turns boys into men and football is his vehicle. he's a fix it guy too. he fixed the d when he was here. and then left to help mentor new boys and fix new programs that needed fixing. it's not surprise to me and many that the kids he recruited were so good last year.
 


He has been provided a very nice life style, thank you to the Minnesota tax payers. Millions in pay, a 200 million dollars work out facility, not to mention a new stadium to play in. When you see how hard the average family has to work every day to maintain and you see all that has been given to these coaches. There primary job requirement includes being competitive with the other teams that they are competing against. He as been allowed several years to simply be competitive with his own players and his team plays like that? I have to scratch my head.
LOL
 

One part to look at as well is the development of the talent brought in. Seems like the graduating class last year developed relatively well. What about the Rossi classes? Maybe there hasn't been enough to time yet to determine this, but looking at what we currently have on the field... really makes you wonder how well they've been coached. Part of the problem is the revolving door on Defense with the coaching staff as well I think. I don't know, just throwing stuff at the wall I guess.

It is too soon to make judgements on a lot of these guys. The guys that need to be leaders on D right now (2017 & 2018 guys) were busts or didn't pan out well for the most part with a few exceptions. Other guys (2019, 2020) are just getting started in their college careers and will grow and mature a lot over the next year or so. Frustrating as a fan and no guarantee how it will all play out but we have no real choice but to be patient.

Rossi has proven to be very good at the X&O part of the equation by what he was able to do when he took over for Smith. Completely changing the trajectory of the defense without changing the personnel. The next year or so will show what he can do from the scouting and talent end of things.

We hit a bunch of home runs in recruiting on offense at a time when the programs exposure was not great. We didn't get quite as lucky on D.
 

Agreed, but I told my friends that I am now really glad we went to two extra road games last year and really enjoyed the season while it was happening. Right now it looks like a 4 to 5 year path to get back to there. We look like a total rebuild on defense and best case we get that done in two years and then we are a total rebuild on offense. That is if we can start to recruit defensive players that can play defense, not just win wind sprints at Nike camps.

It looks like there is no one on this staff that has the knack for identifying football players on defense. The best tackler on the team right now is a walk-on from Prior Lake that is sitting on special teams.

MSM is a real issue right now, you can't be the leader of the linebacking core and be that poor of a tackler.
I’d take 11 wins every four or five years with some terrible seasons in between. Beats winning 6-8 games every year.
 

I’d take 11 wins every four or five years with some terrible seasons in between. Beats winning 6-8 games every year.
Would you rather be Illinois or Minnesota since 2000?

they have a big ten title and a rose bowl in two different seasons
 

Would you rather be Illinois or Minnesota since 2000?

they have a big ten title and a rose bowl in two different seasons
It’s close cause they only have a 9 win and ten win season during that stretch. We have a 9, 10, and 11, but we don’t have the title or rose bowl. I’m thinking like Mike Price at WSU, some very good years, but some lean years in between. Illinois is getting to be like once a decade good, can’t really justify keeping a coach for that kind of result. But two or 3 times a decade isn’t bad.
 
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It’s close cause they only have a 9 win and ten win season during that stretch. We have a 9, 10, and 11, but we don’t have the title or rose bowl. I’m thinking like Mike Price at WSU, some very good years, but some lean years in between.

Don't you mean 9* ?
 




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