Shooter: 3 Gopher walk-ons have received a scholarship UPDATED 2/24: Bak/Christenson

[BleedGopher]

of course he doesn't say who. Per Shooter:

"Since the end of their Meineke Car Care Bowl appearance Dec. 28, three Gophers walk-on football players have received full scholarships valued at about $25,000 annually."

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_22557736/charley-walters-jack-morris-induction-into-ted-williams

Go Gophers!!

 

[nc2mn]

The more I see stories like this, the more I think nobody outside the program knows exactly who is or isn't on scholarship. Unless Kill and company are playing a shell game.

 

[gophergv]

The more I see stories like this, the more I think nobody outside the program knows exactly who is or isn't on scholarship. Unless Kill and company are playing a shell game.

agreed, for some reason Kill does not like to tell us who gets schollies

 

[MaxyJR1]

agreed, for some reason Kill does not like to tell us who gets schollies

I assume they like to wait until all the kids are signed to PWO and scholarships before letting it out. Has to be some reason to it. Regardless great news for those kids and the walk on program.

 

[Killjoy]

of course he doesn't say who. Per Shooter:

"Since the end of their Meineke Car Care Bowl appearance Dec. 28, three Gophers walk-on football players have received full scholarships valued at about $25,000 annually."

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_22557736/charley-walters-jack-morris-induction-into-ted-williams

Go Gophers!!

The math doesn't work unless some more scholarship players leave at the end of the spring semester. With our present roster and the new recruits who have committed we have no additional scholarships available. The only way it would work is if three of the recruits gray shirted.

 

[highwayman]

The math doesn't work unless some more scholarship players leave at the end of the spring semester. With our present roster and the new recruits who have committed we have no additional scholarships available.

Actually, the math works if the coaching staff is determining how many scholarships Minnesota has and who gets them...

 

[Killjoy]

Actually, the math works if the coaching staff is determining how many scholarships Minnesota has and who gets them...

Of course they are closer to the situation than we are but this isn't rocket science at this point. We know very close if not exactly how many scholarships that presently have been given out plus the number of additional scholarships needed for the new recruits. What we don't know is, how many additional scholarship players, if anybody, are leaving after spring semester and/or if they are planing to gray shirt any of the recent commits. In order for the scholarship total not to exceed 85 three additional scholarships need to be freed up by either scholarships players leaving at the end of the spring semester and/or recruits being gray shirted. The one thing that is for sure is that the number of players on scholarship will not exceed 85.

 

[Okie]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that AJ Barker didn't get one of them.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that AJ Barker didn't get one of them.

Well done.

I'm going to guess it's Engel, Mottla, and Bak, unless Aaron Hill isn't on scholarship already. Then he has to be one of them.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I think an important thing to note is that most scholarships for walkons are awarded per year. I realize that all scholarships are technically on a per year basis, but they certainly aren't treated as such (almost all guys who sign are given the "guaranteed" 4-5 years, even though it's technically up to the coach to renew scholarships each year). However, the walkon situation is a bit different, in that, unless you hear a coach say that a player has officially become a scholarship player (Mike Rallis), I wouldn't assume it's for anything more than the year.

My point. . .this could be a nice way of saying that the gave Aaron Hill (was on scholarship last year), Mottla (I believe on scholarship last year) and Engel scholarships (he'd be the first guy who didn't get a scholarship last year).

I'm not saying that is what happened, but it's difficult to tell exactly what is going on from the wording.

If it is genuinely 3 new players getting scholarships: Engel, Christensen and (Bak, Henry, Banham, Eldred)?

 

[Killjoy]

The interesting question that nobody seems care about is, if this is true, who is leaving after spring semester and/or who is going to be gray shirted.

 

[nsmike]

There are ways to manipulate the scholarship numbers without having any departures. I would think that non contributing players with a fifth year of eligibility could have been told that their scholarships would end after the fourth year. There could be medical retirements we don't know about. I suspect that we won't know much until the roster is updated in June.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Could these guys just be getting spring $ based on guys that ended school in December?

 

[btowngopher]

Could these guys just be getting spring $ based on guys that ended school in December?

This sounds logical to me. If that's allowed. I don't know why you would award fall scholarships in February.

 

[alchemy2u]

I for one, will look at this as a good sign that shows PWO are being rewarded for there hard work and not try to question the coach on his ability to add. For the PWO program to succeed there needs to be examples of players that can get significant playing time and scholarships.

 

[Killjoy]

There are ways to manipulate the scholarship numbers without having any departures. I would think that non contributing players with a fifth year of eligibility could have been told that their scholarships would end after the fourth year. There could be medical retirements we don't know about. I suspect that we won't know much until the roster is updated in June.

Thanks for your thoughts nsmike. You have raised a very interesting question as to whether a non contributing 5th year senior player's scholarship can be terminated after fours of scholarships. We have the following six fifth year seniors next fall who could potential receive a fifth year scholarship: Victor Keise, Moses Alipate, K. Gregory-McGhee, Ed Olson, Ra'Shede Hageman, and Dan Orseski. There are four on that list who would be prime candidates for not awarding a fifth year scholarship. Since it has been confirmed by Jerry that he will be awarding three or four walk-on scholarships soon I believe that is how he is going to do it.

P.S. If that occurs it would mean again that we will only have 10+ senior scholarship players on the team in 2013 again. Jerry is a master at kicking the can down the road.

 

[MaxyJR1]

I think it has to do with guys that have graduated and are declining their 5th year and those that left after the season/did not return in January.

 

[Killjoy]

I think it has to do with guys that have graduated and are declining their 5th year and those that left after the season/did not return in January.

You are right but those scholarships freed on from players leaving in January were used for additional February signing recruits.

 

[Kratos3]

The interesting question that nobody seems care about is, if this is true, who is leaving after spring semester and/or who is going to be gray shirted.

If they are leaving, why should we be so concerned about them? They're either gone or agreed to a grayshirt.

 

[MaxyJR1]

You are right but those scholarships freed on from players leaving in January were used for additional February signing recruits.

Those counted back toward last year, but I think the math is more than the 4 that signed.

 

[Sportsfan24]

The math doesn't work unless some more scholarship players leave at the end of the spring semester. With our present roster and the new recruits who have committed we have no additional scholarships available. The only way it would work is if three of the recruits gray shirted.

The math works just fine...what you don't know is who the kids are that LOST the scholarships. That's the ugly part of college football.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

The math works just fine...what you don't know is who the kids are that LOST the scholarships. That's the ugly part of college football.

I think that is extremely rare, you even said as much a bit ago. If Kill was pulling people's scholarships, there is no way that Moses Alipate, Victor Kiese, Kenny Watkins, Cameron Wilson, etc., would be on scholarship.

I think if a kid has graduated, he might pull the scholarship. I'm not in favor of that, but it's sort of living up to your end of the bargain.

We had this convo awhile ago and you seemed to say that he intentionally puts guys like Watkins, Kiese, etc., on the back burner and you equated that to pulling a scholarship. I think there is a giant difference between burying someone on the depth chart and pulling their scholarship.

 

[Gopherprof]

As Bob said, redshirt scholarships are on a yearly basis. You're counting Hill and Boticelli into your 85 already when you shouldn't. That accounts for two of them. They're probably at 86 with the assumption that somebody doesn't come back for whatever reason. Keep in mind that they don't have to hit 85 until late summer I believe.

 

[Sportsfan24]

I think that is extremely rare, you even said as much a bit ago. If Kill was pulling people's scholarships, there is no way that Moses Alipate, Victor Kiese, Kenny Watkins, Cameron Wilson, etc., would be on scholarship.

I think if a kid has graduated, he might pull the scholarship. I'm not in favor of that, but it's sort of living up to your end of the bargain.

We had this convo awhile ago and you seemed to say that he intentionally puts guys like Watkins,
Kiese, etc., on the back burner and you equated that to pulling a scholarship. I think there is a
giant difference between burying someone on the depth chart and pulling their scholarship.

Ummmmmm you may want to find out where those scholarships came from before you start
naming name...hint, hint.

With that being said, I do agree it's part of college football. It's ugly but this is what Brew didn't do and what Kill will do and this is why Kill will be successful where Brew wasn't...and also why I like one and not the other. It's the side of running a successful program that nobody wants to talk about.

 

[Killjoy]

Sportsfan24

Ummmmmm you may want to find out where those scholarships came from before you start
naming name...hint, hint.

With that being said, I do agree it's part of college football. It's ugly but this is what Brew didn't do and what Kill will do and this is why Kill will be successful where Brew wasn't...and also why I like one and not the other. It's the side of running a successful program that nobody wants to talk about.

When are you going to start giving out prizes for solving all the innuendos you seem to like to drop? If I want a mystery I will read a book. As the saying goes either sxxx or get off the pot.

 

[Sportsfan24]

When are you going to start giving out prizes for solving all the innuendos you seem to like to drop? If I want a mystery I will read a book. As the saying goes either sxxx or get off the pot.

Fair point; I'm balancing having an opinion with telling someone else's business. When the professionals make it known publicly then I can be more specific, there's a process they go through versus what a blog junkie (me), doesn't.

 

[Killjoy]

Fair point; I'm balancing having an opinion with telling someone else's business. When the professionals make it known publicly then I can be more specific, there's a process they go through versus what a blog junkie (me), doesn't.

Since you can't tell us much maybe you can give me some insight into what the protocol is for giving a red shirt junior a fifth year scholarship if (a.) he will be graduating that spring or (b.) he needs to attend school the following fall in order to graduate. Also there are two scenarios for (a.) and (b.). In first scenario the player would be a contributor and the second one he would not.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Ummmmmm you may want to find out where those scholarships came from before you start
naming name...hint, hint.

With that being said, I do agree it's part of college football. It's ugly but this is what Brew didn't do and what Kill will do and this is why Kill will be successful where Brew wasn't...and also why I like one and not the other. It's the side of running a successful program that nobody wants to talk about.

The only person who is no longer with the program is Kenny Watkins. If it's someone else, I can't really speculate on that. However, people are pretty mixed on the idea of "pulling" a scholarship after the player receives his degree. If it's Watkins, he earned his degree and therefore the U satisfied their end of the bargain.

Generally, I agree that coaches shouldn't ever pull scholarships when players have eligibility left. So if Kill pulled Garin and Watkins scholarships going into their post graduate 5th years, I wouldn't be in favor of it, but it's not the same as pulling a scholarship before a kid has graduated.

IF you're hinting that Kill pulled the scholarship of Wilson and/or Hutton I wouldn't be in favor of it at all. It would be strange because why would Kill start pulling scholarships now and not other years with guys like Garin, Alipate, KGM, Watkins, Hutton, Wilson, Kiese?

It seems like you're insinuating that he's pulling scholarships from players who have graduated, that's a little different. I don't support it, but it's not the same as pulling a free education away from an athlete.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Since you can't tell us much maybe you can give me some insight into what the protocol is for giving a red shirt junior a fifth year scholarship if (a.) he will be graduating that spring or (b.) he needs to attend school the following fall in order to graduate. Also there are two scenarios for (a.) and (b.). In first scenario the player would be a contributor and the second one he would not.

The coach makes the protocol and I sure it changes depending on the team. A good team can carry players who aren't playing versus a team such as the gophers where a coach doesn't have that luxury.

Either way it's a tough call and folks are sure to be pissed off, I guess it just depends on if you are on the inside looking out (will benefit from the upgrade in talent) or on the outside looking in (lost the scholarship.)

 

[Sportsfan24]

The only person who is no longer with the program is Kenny Watkins. If it's someone else, I can't really speculate on that. However, people are pretty mixed on the idea of "pulling" a scholarship after the player receives his degree. If it's Watkins, he earned his degree and therefore the U satisfied their end of the bargain.

Generally, I agree that coaches shouldn't ever pull scholarships when players have eligibility left. So if Kill pulled Garin and Watkins scholarships going into their post graduate 5th years, I wouldn't be in favor of it, but it's not the same as pulling a scholarship before a kid has graduated.

IF you're hinting that Kill pulled the scholarship of Wilson and/or Hutton I wouldn't be in favor of it at all. It would be strange because why would Kill start pulling scholarships now and not other years with guys like Garin, Alipate, KGM, Watkins, Hutton, Wilson, Kiese?

It seems like you're insinuating that he's pulling scholarships from players who have graduated,
that's a little different. I don't support it, but it's not the same as pulling a free education away
from an athlete.

There was more than one scholarship pulled. Fair/unfair? It is what it is...how does that old saying go "it depends on whose ox is getting gored."

Truth told, every athlete knows going in that his scholarship is renewed on a yearly basis. Folks who have heard me talk about the inadequacies of the players versus the amount of generated know I have an issue with that. Another way to close that versus actually paying players would be to make the scholarships for 5 years. As in 5 to play 4 or better yet 5 years of eligibility period. And instead of 85 scholarships total, just go 20-25 per year. When your clock runs out your scholarship is done, whether you play or not; no need for coaches to make the difficult decision of who loses a scholarship and they players get some of the 100's of millions returned to them in the form of a guaranteed scholarship.