Shama: U State Hoops Recruiting Not Okay

[BleedGopher]

per Shama:

Pitino has a career Big Ten regular season record of 46 wins and 76 losses in six-plus seasons. He has only one winning season in the Big Ten. Two of his last three teams have earned invites to the NCAA Tournament. He is 1-2 in the tournament including last year’s upset of higher seeded Louisville.

More talented Minnesotans on the roster would certainly have helped during the Pitino era. And it’s not always the most obvious prep talents who can turn out to be difference makers in college. Freddie Gillespie, a redshirt senior forward from East Ridge, is a starter and contributor for a Baylor team ranked No. 1 in the country. He transferred to Baylor from Division III Carleton of the MIAC. Minnesota native Jared Nuness, Al’s son and an assistant on the Baylor staff, helped bring the late developing Gillespie to Baylor who now has pro scouts looking at him.

Vinnie Shahid, who played at Hopkins, is a starting guard and impact player at North Dakota State. He has been leading the team this season in scoring after being named the Summit League Newcomer of the Year in 2018-2019. He was also the conference tournament MVP in 2019.

At Wofford sophomore guard Ryan Larson is a starter after playing with Oturu at Cretin-Derham Hall. In high school Larson was a “chemistry player,” making teammates better with both obvious and subtle contributions. Larson might be the type of prep player that could have been persuaded to walk-on with the Gophers with the possibility of eventually earning a scholarship.

Pitino’s teams, even his best ones, have lacked depth. There have to be a lot of Minnesota preps with so much passion for the home town Gophers that they would be willing to walk-on—even though their skills might not be quite worthy of Big Ten scholarship offers. Players who excel in perhaps just one or two skills like three-point shooting, or being tall and physical enough to come off the bench for limited minutes and push around opposing “bigs.” Players with such skills could provide specialization and depth without using up limited scholarship inventory.

Nuness was asked whether the Gophers, if they annually had more quality players from the state (not necessarily McDonald’s All-Americans), could contend for Big Ten titles. “I think they could do that. (But) not every year they would be able to,” he answered, and also emphasized scholarship inventory certainly restricts how many recruits the staff can take from Minnesota and elsewhere.

David Shama's Minnesota Sports Headliners

Go Gophers!!

 

[Block M]

Meh.

 

[gophereric30]

Dam! I was under the impression if we got guys like dawson garcia and top 50 guys from minnesota we could compete for big ten title. How was one to know if we only got guys from wofford and north dakota state we would be in the mix!

 

[builtbadgers]

Dam! I was under the impression if we got guys like dawson garcia and top 50 guys from minnesota we could compete for big ten title. How was one to know if we only got guys from wofford and north dakota state we would be in the mix!

Wow. Love recruiting after the fact ! Plus nearly every program loses the top kids from their state. There are a whole lot of states that produce more talent than Minnesota and 90 % of the recruiting websites are wrong on assessment.

 

[forever a gopher]

While I am in the camp that believes Pitino should be recruiting better (in state would be preferable, but not the end-all be-all), this is an absolutely moronic article. If you’re going to take a shot at Pitino, this is a very cheap and lazy way to do it.

 

[gophereric30]

Wow. Love recruiting after the fact ! Plus nearly every program loses the top kids from their state. There are a whole lot of states that produce more talent than Minnesota and 90 % of the recruiting websites are wrong on assessment.

Agreed! I have 1 or 2 guys from minnesota that dont want to play here. I have 1 from florida and 1 from illinois that do. We'll be just fine!

 

[manny77]

Who is Shama?? Hind sight is usually pretty good who ever he is. If gillespie transferred from Div. 3, lots of people missed that one.

 

[Roland Brooks]

Including St. Thomas, St. John’s and Bethel.

 

[Mulligan]

While I am in the camp that believes Pitino should be recruiting better (in state would be preferable, but not the end-all be-all), this is an absolutely moronic article. If you’re going to take a shot at Pitino, this is a very cheap and lazy way to do it.

If you're surprised by that you apparently aren't aware of Dave Shama's previous work.

 

[MUgopher32]

LOL at this referencing a Gillepsie a dude who went D3.

Sorry but it wasn't just Richard who missed the boat on that one. 2 entire tiers of basketball programs did.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

crud.

 

[Gopherfan1000]

I wouldn't say the in-state recruiting has been as bad as advertised. Coffey, Oturu, Gabe were all 4-star recruits. And, Coffey is currently playing in the NBA and Oturu will follow suit. I can't really blame a kid like Matthew Hurt for wanting to go to Duke. He may have made the wrong choice, but it's a clear path to the NBA. I hear the Gophers may land Chet Holmgren. That would have to change some opinions on Pitino's recruiting capabilities.

 

[bga1]

LOL at this referencing a Gillepsie a dude who went D3.

Sorry but it wasn't just Richard who missed the boat on that one. 2 entire tiers of basketball programs did.

Gillespie himself said he wasn't very good in HS.- at least not at the level of other top players in the state.

 

[SelectionSunday]

I'm in the camp of I'd like to see Richard get a few more of the talented "gettable" Minnesota kids (i.e. Dawson, Walton, Heide, etc.), but this Shama column is a complete cheap shot. Click bait, for sure.

 

[GopherBlood777]

I'm in the camp of I'd like to see Richard get a few more of the talented "gettable" Minnesota kids (i.e. Dawson, Walton, Heide, etc.), but this Shama column is a complete cheap shot. Click bait, for sure.

Signing walton will make up for the garcia miss, but of he misses on walton will be interesting to see how that scholly is used

 

[dpodoll68]

LOL at this referencing a Gillepsie a dude who went D3.

Sorry but it wasn't just Richard who missed the boat on that one. 2 entire tiers of basketball programs did.

This is exactly right, and illustrates why it's so stupid when fans or media bring up random recruit X or recruit Y in football and basketball with the sole purpose of excoriating the coaching staff for not recruiting him and/or missing out on him. (trollboy tommyboy on the football board does this as his sole purpose for posting here.) In some cases, the recruit has offers from as good or better schools, and in those cases, the criticism is valid because the coach is losing recruiting battles with peer schools. But in most cases, it's a recruit who went to Cal Poly or Wofford, or even lower. In those cases, as you've illustrated, it's not just the Gophers missing them - it's entire levels of competition. Literally hundreds of schools looked at the player and deemed him not worthy - or, in some cases, missed him entirely because they weren't aware of his existence. There's no special reason the Gophers should be aware of under-recruited athletes any more than any other school, simply because of geographic proximity.

 

[Northeastgopher]

This article is terrible. The Wofford kid average 3 points per game, I don't know how you can make an argument that he wouldn't be another Michael Hurt type player that everyone on this board whines about.

 

[CentralGopher]

Stupid take. The recruits Pitino has gotten are all higher rated than the ones he suggesed. If he wants to make a big deal about player development go ahead but recruiting hasn't been the biggest issue.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

For sake of argument -
Fans look at lack of production from Gopher Bench.
Fans see MN kids doing well at other schools.
Fans wonder if those MN kids might be able to provide more production than some of Pitino's recruits.

that is a valid question.

I don't think Shama is saying that any of the MN kids he mentioned would necessarily be starting for the Gophers. I think he is suggesting that potentially, some of those MN kids might be able to contribute more than the guys currently holding down the end of the bench for the Gophers.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Extremely lazy take. The idea that Larson would've came here on a walk on is laughable. If he had expressed any interest in that, the gophers would've done it. Also if you are going to cherry pick and you don't bring up a Calvin Wishart or Jamison Battle before bringing up a Ryan Larson or a unicorn like Freddie Gillespie is just lazy, which I guess is Shama so I shouldn't expect less.

 

[MplsGopher]

Including St. Thomas, St. John’s and Bethel.

And St Thomas is going DI now.

So now top preps in the state can have another school to string along but ultimately not sign with, because they never wanted to stay in-state deep down in the first place.

 

[GopherBlood777]

And St Thomas is going DI now.

So now top preps in the state can have another school to string along but ultimately not sign with, because they never wanted to stay in-state deep down in the first place.

In the summit league? Not sure which top preps who string along the U would really entertain an offer, if any, from st.thomas. Most of their in-state offers are probably more likely to land since those players would probably also be considering SDSU and ND as options. Eh, who knows lol

 

[MplsGopher]

Wasn’t being serious

 

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

Extremely lazy take. The idea that Larson would've came here on a walk on is laughable. If he had expressed any interest in that, the gophers would've done it. Also if you are going to cherry pick and you don't bring up a Calvin Wishart or Jamison Battle before bringing up a Ryan Larson or a unicorn like Freddie Gillespie is just lazy, which I guess is Shama so I shouldn't expect less.

I really liked Battle and was hoping we would end up landing him.

The only one mentioned in Shama's article that I liked was Shahid, who was clearly the leader of the great Hopkins team.

It's funny he didn't mention El-Amin who is having a good season at Ball St. I also really like Shae Mitchell from Lakeville South, although a quick look at his stats is very underwhelming.

 

[Go Gophs]

This is not a good article.

Pitino has been decent at getting good kids from in state. Decent at best. Oturo and Coffey are who you hang your hat on. The rest of that list is silly. None of them would be difference makers most likely and aren't any better than the guys on our bench already.

If he can get at least 1 of the top 2-3 kids from in state each year, I'd say that's fair and also about what we should expect. One of these times also, I'd like to see them land that 5 star kid or have a season where you get 2-3 kids from in state that also are being recruited by the big boys.

 

[cjbfbp]

I don't think Shama is saying that any of the MN kids he mentioned would necessarily be starting for the Gophers. I think he is suggesting that potentially, some of those MN kids might be able to contribute more than the guys currently holding down the end of the bench for the Gophers.

Yes, and regardless of the geographic origin of our recruits, Pitino's failure to recruit enough players who make solid contributions to the lineup is a perennial problem so the spirit of this piece is still valid.

 

[LesBolstad]

If this guy had a Hopkins jersey on, virtually all (male) Gopher fans would be creaming their shorts:

 

[MplsGopher]

Last year it was if only we had Carr, this year it’s if only we had a bench player, next year it will be if only we still had Oturu, the year after that it will be ...

 

[builtbadgers]

If this guy had a Hopkins jersey on, virtually all (male) Gopher fans would be creaming their shorts:

Very true. Fans over rate local kids by at least 25%

 

[bhk3yx]

per Shama:

Pitino has a career Big Ten regular season record of 46 wins and 76 losses in six-plus seasons. He has only one winning season in the Big Ten. Two of his last three teams have earned invites to the NCAA Tournament. He is 1-2 in the tournament including last year’s upset of higher seeded Louisville.

More talented Minnesotans on the roster would certainly have helped during the Pitino era. And it’s not always the most obvious prep talents who can turn out to be difference makers in college. Freddie Gillespie, a redshirt senior forward from East Ridge, is a starter and contributor for a Baylor team ranked No. 1 in the country. He transferred to Baylor from Division III Carleton of the MIAC. Minnesota native Jared Nuness, Al’s son and an assistant on the Baylor staff, helped bring the late developing Gillespie to Baylor who now has pro scouts looking at him.

Vinnie Shahid, who played at Hopkins, is a starting guard and impact player at North Dakota State. He has been leading the team this season in scoring after being named the Summit League Newcomer of the Year in 2018-2019. He was also the conference tournament MVP in 2019.

At Wofford sophomore guard Ryan Larson is a starter after playing with Oturu at Cretin-Derham Hall. In high school Larson was a “chemistry player,” making teammates better with both obvious and subtle contributions. Larson might be the type of prep player that could have been persuaded to walk-on with the Gophers with the possibility of eventually earning a scholarship.

Pitino’s teams, even his best ones, have lacked depth. There have to be a lot of Minnesota preps with so much passion for the home town Gophers that they would be willing to walk-on—even though their skills might not be quite worthy of Big Ten scholarship offers. Players who excel in perhaps just one or two skills like three-point shooting, or being tall and physical enough to come off the bench for limited minutes and push around opposing “bigs.” Players with such skills could provide specialization and depth without using up limited scholarship inventory.

Nuness was asked whether the Gophers, if they annually had more quality players from the state (not necessarily McDonald’s All-Americans), could contend for Big Ten titles. “I think they could do that. (But) not every year they would be able to,” he answered, and also emphasized scholarship inventory certainly restricts how many recruits the staff can take from Minnesota and elsewhere.

David Shama's Minnesota Sports Headliners

Go Gophers!!

per Shama:

Pitino has a career Big Ten regular season record of 46 wins and 76 losses in six-plus seasons. He has only one winning season in the Big Ten. Two of his last three teams have earned invites to the NCAA Tournament. He is 1-2 in the tournament including last year’s upset of higher seeded Louisville.

More talented Minnesotans on the roster would certainly have helped during the Pitino era. And it’s not always the most obvious prep talents who can turn out to be difference makers in college. Freddie Gillespie, a redshirt senior forward from East Ridge, is a starter and contributor for a Baylor team ranked No. 1 in the country. He transferred to Baylor from Division III Carleton of the MIAC. Minnesota native Jared Nuness, Al’s son and an assistant on the Baylor staff, helped bring the late developing Gillespie to Baylor who now has pro scouts looking at him.

Vinnie Shahid, who played at Hopkins, is a starting guard and impact player at North Dakota State. He has been leading the team this season in scoring after being named the Summit League Newcomer of the Year in 2018-2019. He was also the conference tournament MVP in 2019.

At Wofford sophomore guard Ryan Larson is a starter after playing with Oturu at Cretin-Derham Hall. In high school Larson was a “chemistry player,” making teammates better with both obvious and subtle contributions. Larson might be the type of prep player that could have been persuaded to walk-on with the Gophers with the possibility of eventually earning a scholarship.

Pitino’s teams, even his best ones, have lacked depth. There have to be a lot of Minnesota preps with so much passion for the home town Gophers that they would be willing to walk-on—even though their skills might not be quite worthy of Big Ten scholarship offers. Players who excel in perhaps just one or two skills like three-point shooting, or being tall and physical enough to come off the bench for limited minutes and push around opposing “bigs.” Players with such skills could provide specialization and depth without using up limited scholarship inventory.

Nuness was asked whether the Gophers, if they annually had more quality players from the state (not necessarily McDonald’s All-Americans), could contend for Big Ten titles. “I think they could do that. (But) not every year they would be able to,” he answered, and also emphasized scholarship inventory certainly restricts how many recruits the staff can take from Minnesota and elsewhere.

David Shama's Minnesota Sports Headliners

Go Gophers!!

The structure of this argument is very weak. Without also presenting the number of similar caliber MN players to those discussed in the article who did not pan out in a similar fashion at their respective D-3 and D II programs it becomes impossible to draw many conclusions at all.

The claim seems tantamount to: Brock Lesnar was good enough to warrant a brief stint in the NFL; therefore, Vikings personnel should spend more time recruiting members from the Gophers wrestling team. Without knowing the sample Lesnar comes from he could be the .0001% or he could .09% indicating more scouts should go to wrestling meets. It seems completely unnecessary to mention Pitino in the context of this article at all.