Shama on U WRs: That has to be considered a recruiting failure and it’s uncertain how the receiver roster gets fixed in the offseason.

Wright's playing time is something of a mystery for sure. But then again, he left A&M after redshirting and then seeing the field in only 4 games the next season, mostly on special teams IIRC.

There's something going on there, or he'd be playing more.
 

Seemed to me he didn’t get a good jump or time the jump just right but that’s strictly recollection. Should have been a better pass, yeah. Probably could have been caught. Allocate 50/50 blame or maybe 40/60.
Yeah...fair enough.
 


The WR situation isn't surprising. Before the season began, Fleck pointed out that we were very young at the position and that we'd need to operate our WR position "as a corps." Fleck's exact words.

I literally stated before the season began that there really isn't a mystery: Tanner is not strong at seeing the field. A corps of WR talent is not helpful to him because it compels him to survey the whole field. Either he gets 2 stud WR's so he doesn't have to see the field, or we struggle in the passing game. And even with the OL being what it is, a deficient passing game means we'll probably beat mediocre teams but not good ones.

I said all of this before the season began - right here on this board. I don't see how this can be a surprise. You just have to watch the team and evaluate honestly.

Is the team, as a whole, going in the right direction under Fleck? Yes. Undoubtedly, yes. Yes like never before in my lifetime.

This season could have turned out like 2019 if: (1) CrAB was consistently healthy; and (2) Wright was further along. Did Fleck know this? Sure he did. That's why he went out and got Wright. Did he know that Wright needed developing? Sure. But David Bell isn't going to walk through that door.

Will next year be better? I think we lose a lot and break in a new QB. So probably not. But I can enjoy watching the next squad come together, knowing that the following seasons will likely look bright.
 

Let's stop with the over analyzing of the receiving Corp and remember most of these guys were attracted t o the University by the exploits of the johnson-bateman air raid offense we had just two years ago. If there's a bunch of egos on this team you'd find them in the wide receiver room which isn't a bad thing. those guys have to have cajones to make catches over the middle. Right now there's little or no cohesion or trust between the quarterback and the receivers. i like morgan but he has become painful to watch. We have to move in a new direction even if its just a few series a game. We literally pass the ball just slightly more than the military academies. Not good enough.
 


I could see the WR issues coming all the way back to last year versus Wisconsin. Jackson is playing hurt I believe. MBS is just not very good IMO. And Wright appears to be a headache. CAB had been in and out all year.

Hopefully the group can continue to get better over time but I think PJ has a point.
 

Again, not suggesting any such thing -- that it's a random, for "no reason" deal.

I'm guessing that, the reason that Fleck is sitting him, is some dumb little "culture" thing and that he has now made his point pretty clearly --- to the tune of potentially costing his team a win in Iowa.

Losses help the "culture" though. :cautious:
Sometimes I wonder if you actually read what you write before you post it or if you are moving so quickly to the next post that you just toss it out there and move on :)

I would be shocked to find out Wright's playing time was being impacted by something insignificant or petty.
 

As is not so rarely the case, I was barking up the wrong tree, and I won’t be saying any more than that.

Cheering for Wright to do what he has to do to get back on the field!
 

I could see the WR issues coming all the way back to last year versus Wisconsin. Jackson is playing hurt I believe. MBS is just not very good IMO. And Wright appears to be a headache. CAB had been in and out all year.

Hopefully the group can continue to get better over time but I think PJ has a point.
Agree but then he really should be playing other guys. He has a number of highly rated recruits at the position, you don’t have to worry about burning a redshirt. Can they be worse? Unlikely IMHO.
 



Maybe Fleck could give some of these freshman a chance to catch a pass. But, he's the coach
I'm sure he'll make the right decision.
 

The WR situation isn't surprising. Before the season began, Fleck pointed out that we were very young at the position and that we'd need to operate our WR position "as a corps." Fleck's exact words.

I literally stated before the season began that there really isn't a mystery: Tanner is not strong at seeing the field. A corps of WR talent is not helpful to him because it compels him to survey the whole field. Either he gets 2 stud WR's so he doesn't have to see the field, or we struggle in the passing game. And even with the OL being what it is, a deficient passing game means we'll probably beat mediocre teams but not good ones.

I said all of this before the season began - right here on this board. I don't see how this can be a surprise. You just have to watch the team and evaluate honestly.

Is the team, as a whole, going in the right direction under Fleck? Yes. Undoubtedly, yes. Yes like never before in my lifetime.

This season could have turned out like 2019 if: (1) CrAB was consistently healthy; and (2) Wright was further along. Did Fleck know this? Sure he did. That's why he went out and got Wright. Did he know that Wright needed developing? Sure. But David Bell isn't going to walk through that door.

Will next year be better? I think we lose a lot and break in a new QB. So probably not. But I can enjoy watching the next squad come together, knowing that the following seasons will likely look bright.
I don't remember your posts before the season, but it's now clear to me that you're 100% right. Tanner has made some incredible throws during his time and can put it in a tight window at times, but it's now clear to me that he struggles to survey the field like you said. He's locked in on read 1 or 2 and missed way too many open receivers this year to believe any different. RPO/whatever KC wants to call it was the simplest read ever: LB or S bites, throw that slant even if it's the tightest man coverage you've ever seen. They don't bite, hand it off. When Tanner has been successful this year it's mostly been one read plays like this, long play action, or half-field stuff with two routes.
 

I don't remember your posts before the season, but it's now clear to me that you're 100% right. Tanner has made some incredible throws during his time and can put it in a tight window at times, but it's now clear to me that he struggles to survey the field like you said. He's locked in on read 1 or 2 and missed way too many open receivers this year to believe any different. RPO/whatever KC wants to call it was the simplest read ever: LB or S bites, throw that slant even if it's the tightest man coverage you've ever seen. They don't bite, hand it off. When Tanner has been successful this year it's mostly been one read plays like this, long play action, or half-field stuff with two routes.
On August 22, I wrote:

"The Gophers' prospects come down to either one of two things happening:

(1) The WR position group improving sufficiently so that Tanner can succeed utilizing the limited skill set required in 2019; or

(2) Tanner (or another QB) expanding his skill set so as to be able to succeed with the WR group he has.

That's it. That's basically the season right there. The defense will be sufficient to win games. And the O-line and RB position are each more than solid.

But there's a catch: o-line can nullify an offense, but it cannot make an offense. Time and again it has been shown in the NFL that you are best off to spend your money so as to have a mediocre o-line and dominant skill position players. In other words, you want an o-line good enough to not nullify your offense, and that's it. if you acquire an o-line better than that, you misspent your money (but it must be at least mediocre - so it's a tricky balance).

The best part of the Gophers' offense is a positional group that, by definition, cannot "make" the offense - it can only hinder it or not hinder it. To make an offense really run, it needs skill players that can work together to take whatever the defense is giving (and it is giving something on every down).

In 2019, all Tanner had to do was count the box and see if we had numbers. If we did, then we ran. If not, we passed. And we passed to whichever one of TJ or RB was not double-covered, unless it was a "designed" tunnel screen to CrAB. That's why Tanner "locked into" WR's. He could. He knew exactly where the ball was going prior to the snap. Now it's 2021. Can Tanner go through progressions? Can he go through progressions that have him surveying the whole field? Or can he only progress through levels of receivers pre-arranged to exist in the same small sector of the field (which is what he did last year).

If Wright and CrAB/DJ are, together, good enough the let Tanner know where the ball is going prior to the snap, then it is 2019 all over again. Period. If not, we'll see if Tanner has come into possession of additional QB skills - that's possible too."

I wrote several other posts in the same thread expanding on this. Basically, I say that Tanner is accurate, has great touch, has above-average pocket presence, can read a defense pre-snap, understands the offense, and does just enough with his legs to keep a defense honest. In short, he is the best Gopher QB in my lifetime, and you can win with him. ...But, he is short, lacks a strong arm, and does not go through progressions well. SO YOU NEED TO CONSTRUCT AN OFFENSE AROUND HIS WEAKNESSES. We didn't quite get there this year, in terms of constructing an offense for Tanner. That's the whole story, as it relates to explaining the disappointment.

It's not the whole story in terms of the competence of the coaching staff. They understood what they needed to do in terms of bringing in a WR, and did their best to get that done. They understood what needed to be done on D in terms of strengthening the front 7, and they did that. This staff has clarity of vision, acts purposefully, and has a strong philosophy. It's a winning staff. Rome was not built in a day.
 

I don't remember your posts before the season, but it's now clear to me that you're 100% right. Tanner has made some incredible throws during his time and can put it in a tight window at times, but it's now clear to me that he struggles to survey the field like you said. He's locked in on read 1 or 2 and missed way too many open receivers this year to believe any different. RPO/whatever KC wants to call it was the simplest read ever: LB or S bites, throw that slant even if it's the tightest man coverage you've ever seen. They don't bite, hand it off. When Tanner has been successful this year it's mostly been one read plays like this, long play action, or half-field stuff with two routes.
Fair enough.

But seems like Mike White and Jordan Love are more talented QBs?
 



To clarify my previous post, when I say that "you need to construct an offense around [Tanner's] weaknesses," I mean that both in terms of: (i) scheme; and (ii) personnel.

This coaching staff has done a good job in terms of developing a scheme that accentuates Tanner's talents (there are many, as I pointed out in the previous post) and minimizes exposure of his weaknesses. The scheme stay away from routes that require a cannon arm, or requires Tanner to be a lightening-quick runner, etc.

In terms of personnel, coaching staff tried. They brought in Wright. It just didn't quite all come together at the pace required.

A word on Wright. I cannot comment on his habits, drive, emotional stability, grit and so on. Because I just have no idea about those things. How would I know? But in terms of his ceiling? It's the highest of any WR we've had here since I started watching in 1980. Now, there's a LOT of work to be done to turn that high ceiling into reliable game-breaking WR. The aforementioned attributes that I cannot comment on will determine whether his high ceiling translates successfully into first round draft pick. (Because if he does the work to let the staff develop him, that's exactly what he'll be.)
 

Apart from Dylan Wright not playing, the biggest surprise for me regarding our diminished passing game is Brady Boyd. He clearly has potential, lots of it. He has played in 9 games, long ago burning his redshirt. Normally, when you burn a true freshman’s redshirt, it is because that player is materially contributing.

I’m sure Boyd is contributing insofar as he has been asked, but in those nine games has had two catches for a total of 18 yards. Not sure how many targets Boyd has gotten, but I’ve watched all games but BG, and it hasn’t been many. If we had 12 scholarship RBs (as we do receivers), would we have burned Bucky Irving’s redshirt in order to give him a total of two carries in 9 games? If we aren’t going to throw to Boyd, why did we burn his redshirt?
 
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What did Meatsauce say? His dad is an attorney similar to gaaaaaard.
 

Not sure if I agree with Shama on this.
It's been a weird year for our receivers.
Injuries for Autman-Bell, Jackson and Wright have been tough. They haven't had the best throws thrown to them. Hard to judge when there has been no consistency with what I just mentioned. Brown - Stephens has been impressive this year though.
 

Not sure if I agree with Shama on this.
It's been a weird year for our receivers.
Injuries for Autman-Bell, Jackson and Wright have been tough. They haven't had the best throws thrown to them. Hard to judge when there has been no consistency with what I just mentioned. Brown - Stephens has been impressive this year though.
Every receiver has talent and shows promise.

MBS: (1) I've never seen him be physical attacking the ball - needs to do that; and (2) I don't recall seeing evidence that he runs the full route tree. He seems most comfortable using his speed to try to get behind the defense. We need more out of him. Get physical. Become a complete route runner.

DJ: As compared to MBS, he is a more complete route-runner from what I can tell. But he also needs to get way more physical in attacking the ball.

DW: HIGH CEILING! Hard to know how much the losses in his life impacted him - I'd imagine a lot. I'm not sure what I can tell, given that.
 


Apart from Dylan Wright not playing, the biggest surprise for me regarding our diminished passing game is Brady Boyd. He clearly has potential, lots of it. He has played in 9 games, long ago burning his redshirt. Normally, when you burn a true freshman’s redshirt, it is because that player is materially contributing.

I’m sure Boyd is contributing insofar as he has been asked, but in those nine games has had two catches for a total of 18 yards. Not sure how many targets Boyd has gotten, but I’ve watched all games but BG, and it hasn’t been many. If we had 12 scholarship RBs (as we do receivers), would we have burned Bucky Irving’s redshirt in order to give him a total of two carries in 9 games? If we aren’t going to throw to Boyd, why did we burn his redshirt?
Special teams maybe?
 

Special teams maybe?
Don’t think that’s it. You wouldn’t use Boyd as a tackler on KOs or punts. That’s for defensive guys, LBs and corners. And you wouldn’t burn his redshirt on the KO and receiving teams because we only do fair catches. We never return a kick. Ever.

It’s got to be because the coaches initially thought that we would run a balanced offense with a meaningful passing game, Tanner going through progressions, etc. Turns out, as the season unfolded, that we decided to throw infrequently, less than any major college program except the service academies, … and perhaps Tanner, because of the infrequency of our passing, got rusty, locking in on his primary receiver. By the time it became clear that we were going to an unbalanced, run-dominant offense, maybe Boyd’s redshirt was already burned. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Seems like a waste.
 

You really should go over to Youtube and watch some of those 2019 games again. You'll see very similar passes that we see this season. You'll also see a bunch of games saved by truly spectacular catches... one from CrAB was pretty terrific.

2021 Tanner is exactly the same as 2019 Tanner... well, maybe without the confidence that he can just heave the football "up there" and someone will make a play for him. That's no small thing, either. It probably is the cause of all of Morgan's other foibles.
Not the same Tanner. Not even close.
 

So you're saying that if actions aren't serious enough to be kicked off the team, then there shouldn't ever be any consequences? The player that isn't doing what he should be is the one hurting the team.
The coach who cannot talk to the player and show him how to grow into a good team guy is failing.
 

getting back to the WR's - I posted about this in another thread.

Short version - at his Monday press conference, Fleck implied that a lot of the problem with the passing game is due to the WR's not matching catches. Fleck used the phrase "catch radius" multiple times. he said the 3rd-and-7 throw to Autman-Bell should have been caught. go back and look at the tape - Bell leaps and his fingertips graze the edge of the ball. But Fleck says it was "a catch we need to make."

So all the Gophers need to do is get someone at WR with glue for hands and a 45" vertical jump, and they should be fine.
I don't think his hands were even close to touching that ball. It was a couple feet high. If Fleck said that ball should have been caught he's an idiot.
 

Yeah, clearly there is something going on behind the scenes with Wright that is cutting into his playing time, but let's just assume it is just the coaches ego and not something else....makes sense.

Gotta love the assumptions fans can make with little to no information.

There is zero doubt that Wright is a talented player, but that doesn't mean you play him no matter what if he isn't doing what he is supposed to be doing away from the field.
No one would have believed Fleck would ever put his ego and stubbornness ahead of winning ..... until we saw it with Sanford, Morgan, and prevent offense. Now, not so sure about Dylan Wright.
 

Boyd's redshirt has been burned, and for no more than he's played after the fourth game,
this might have been a bad decision.
He's been on the field a lot. Just hasn't been thrown to much.. Did have at least one drop.
 

If they thought Wright was a project, then why did he star during the Ohio State game?

If he had never played (so well) in that game, then I wouldn't even know of him hardly.


We don't know, though.

If he's doing "bad stuff", such that it's not "bad" enough to get kicked off the team, but it is "bad" enough that the coaching staff wants to "send a message" by cutting his playing time, to the detriment of the team ...... what are hypothetical examples of that?? That's where I'm struggling with this.
Player has to earn playing time. Fine, but usually that means performance. If it is a culture thing does coach bear some responsibility for showing a kid the value of buying in? Or is it just all up to the kid. Simon, are you there? CAB? Tanner?
 


To clarify my previous post, when I say that "you need to construct an offense around [Tanner's] weaknesses," I mean that both in terms of: (i) scheme; and (ii) personnel.

This coaching staff has done a good job in terms of developing a scheme that accentuates Tanner's talents (there are many, as I pointed out in the previous post) and minimizes exposure of his weaknesses. The scheme stay away from routes that require a cannon arm, or requires Tanner to be a lightening-quick runner, etc.

In terms of personnel, coaching staff tried. They brought in Wright. It just didn't quite all come together at the pace required.
I agree with your previous astute posts on Tanner's limitations in terms of receivers and progressions. But not sure why you are saying that the coaching staff has done a good job scheming around Tanner's talents. We've seen multiple games that this is just not the case. Sure, they finally pulled out a little self awareness and improved at Iowa in terms of playcalling, but you're also full of it if in the games before it (BG and Illionois especially) you think Sanford and Co. were putting their QB in a position for success with a dedicated strategy of running the ball every down unless it was 3rd and 8 or longer. On top of that, there were maybe three receivers (counting TE or RB) on many passing downs, which lead to no one being open and coverage sacks.

Yet at Illinois, we managed our best passing offense once we finally spread things out in the 4th. Wouldn't a good scheme allow Tanner to get more quick throws in? Running backs, tight ends involved more if need be? No. No, because the previous approach was near absolute refusal to throw it on most downs unless it seemed too far to pick up a first down running.

So why are you so confident that the coaches did such a great job in the offseason of scheming around Tanner's weaknesses, but also simultaneously completely misjudged the performance of the receivers to the extent that we have a service academy quality passing game?

It's not just the staff, and it's not just the personnel. I just think receiver room is a more convenient way to spread the blame than looking at 75% of the problem, which is playcalling and QB execution.
 
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It's not the whole story in terms of the competence of the coaching staff. They understood what they needed to do in terms of bringing in a WR, and did their best to get that done. They understood what needed to be done on D in terms of strengthening the front 7, and they did that. This staff has clarity of vision, acts purposefully, and has a strong philosophy. It's a winning staff. Rome was not built in a day.



 




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