Shama on Fleck: 21 Big Ten wins over four years is the most ever for the football program that began in 1882.

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BleedGopher

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Per Shama:

Coach P.J. Fleck’s program has the fourth best winning percentages among league teams dating back to the 2019 season, as pointed out this summer by Lindy’s Sports in its Big Ten football preview. The Gophers trail only Ohio State, Michigan and Iowa with their .696 percentage in all games and .618 against Big Ten opponents.

Minnesota is 21-13 in league games during this stretch. The 21 Big Ten wins over four years is the most ever for the football program that began in 1882. The Gophers are 32-14 overall, including three consecutive bowl wins during the four-years.

Throw out Minnesota’s 3-4 record during the COVID season of 2020 when the Gophers played only conference games, and the winning percentages are even more impressive. That year was an outlier for many programs because of the pandemic challenges, including for the Gophers who were coming off a 2019 season with an 11-2 overall record and 7-2 Big Ten mark (tied with Wisconsin for best in the Big Ten West Division). Expectations in Dinkytown were not for 3-4.

The Gophers are having their best four-year stretch since 1960-1963 when the overall and Big Ten records were 25-12 and 19-9 respectively. In the four seasons before Fleck arrived in 2017, Minnesota was 16-17 in league games and 31-21 overall.


Go Gophers!!
 

Shama continues:

"For all the program’s success, there are significant things remaining on the to-do list. Goals including winning the program’s first outright West Division title, first Big Ten championship since 1967, a return to the Rose Bowl for the first time since 1962 and an initial entry into the playoffs which will have an expanded field starting in 2024."

He forgot one important thing: Beat Iowa, it's time.

Go Gophers!!
 



gopherbadgerman said:
My only bitch besides not beating Iowa - I hate when people throw out 2020. If Gophers had gone 5-2 instead of 3-4 NO ONE would talk about not counting that season.
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While true, 2020 counted against Minnesota probably more than anywhere else with all of the unrest in Minneapolis that was still active following the Floyd incident. Fleck did a lot of good keeping the ship upright because, for all intents and purposes, it could've gone ass over teakettle and the following years could've followed suit. Instead, we reversed course and came back strong.
 


2020 was a clusterfart for all P5 schools and was not an accurate reflection of the strength of programs that season. Remember the MN-Neb game Dec 12 that year, after a 3 week layoff due to covid issues, the Gophers missing 33 players and starting a number of true freshman for the first time in their careers, went in to Lincoln and spanked the Huskers in the 2nd to last game of a screwed up season. Gophers lost the following week to Wisky in overtime.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
My only bitch besides not beating Iowa - I hate when people throw out 2020. If Gophers had gone 5-2 instead of 3-4 NO ONE would talk about not counting that season.
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Disagree
 

gopherbadgerman said:
My only bitch besides not beating Iowa - I hate when people throw out 2020. If Gophers had gone 5-2 instead of 3-4 NO ONE would talk about not counting that season.
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Disagree
Obviously fans of an individual school would count a championship if it occurred in 2020

The point more is, nothing that happened in 2020 is really symptomatic of the health of lack of health of a program. See Indiana, penn state, and Michigan. Games mattered. Things mattered. But if looking at an evaluation of a program in a 5 year stretch, 2020 has to be discounted. It simply wasn’t real. Players out. Players in but couldn’t practice. Different state laws allowing for different meetings for different teams. Entire game plans being scrapped minutes before games when someone comes down with a fever. It simply wasn’t real.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
My only bitch besides not beating Iowa - I hate when people throw out 2020. If Gophers had gone 5-2 instead of 3-4 NO ONE would talk about not counting that season.
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+1

I certainly would have considered the losing streak broken if we had won Floyd that year. If I were willing to count a data point that supported my preferred narrative when I would have discounted that data point if it contradicted my preferred narrative, that would be the definition of cherry picking.

I am willing to exclude it for specific points when the number of games is relevant. So I would be OK with saying "we have won 9+ games in three straight years, excluding the season where there weren't even 9 games played."
 



Some guy said:
Disagree
Obviously fans of an individual school would count a championship if it occurred in 2020

The point more is, nothing that happened in 2020 is really symptomatic of the health of lack of health of a program. See Indiana, penn state, and Michigan. Games mattered. Things mattered. But if looking at an evaluation of a program in a 5 year stretch, 2020 has to be discounted. It simply wasn’t real. Players out. Players in but couldn’t practice. Different state laws allowing for different meetings for different teams. Entire game plans being scrapped minutes before games when someone comes down with a fever. It simply wasn’t real.
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I'd agree with this and what @Redbird wrote. Anyone can say "games count" and that can't be refuted, but those games were not indicative of how good/bad the teams were, like you state.

I wouldn't call this "cherry picking" as @bleedsmaroonandgold does, because even if we went undefeated that year, it still wouldn't change the fact that an undefeated covid season is no where, any where, close to an undefeated "normal" season.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
My only bitch besides not beating Iowa - I hate when people throw out 2020. If Gophers had gone 5-2 instead of 3-4 NO ONE would talk about not counting that season.
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I thought we didn’t count that year or any of his first five because, “ThOsE wEreNt hIs pLaYerS!”
 

GopherTheJugular said:
I'd agree with this and what @Redbird wrote. Anyone can say "games count" and that can't be refuted, but those games were not indicative of how good/bad the teams were, like you state.

I wouldn't call this "cherry picking" as @bleedsmaroonandgold does, because even if we went undefeated that year, it still wouldn't change the fact that an undefeated covid season is no where, any where, close to an undefeated "normal" season.
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NW went 7-2 that year. Enough said
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
+1

I certainly would have considered the losing streak broken if we had won Floyd that year. If I were willing to count a data point that supported my preferred narrative when I would have discounted that data point if it contradicted my preferred narrative, that would be the definition of cherry picking.

I am willing to exclude it for specific points when the number of games is relevant. So I would be OK with saying "we have won 9+ games in three straight years, excluding the season where there weren't even 9 games played."
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What if there is no narrative?
What if Minnesota was a disappointing team in 2020 that was middling in the big ten despite high expectations

But what if 2020 was a fake season anyways
 




mngg11 said:
While true, 2020 counted against Minnesota probably more than anywhere else with all of the unrest in Minneapolis that was still active following the Floyd incident. Fleck did a lot of good keeping the ship upright because, for all intents and purposes, it could've gone ass over teakettle and the following years could've followed suit. Instead, we reversed course and came back strong.
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But the point is valid, if Gophs had gone 6-1 or 5-2, a many on GH who exclude that year's record would not. I don't, the games were played and it impacted all teams.
 

PMWinSTP said:
But the point is valid, if Gophs had gone 6-1 or 5-2, a many on GH who exclude that year's record would not. I don't, the games were played and it impacted all teams.
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I think many would still exclude it HOWEVER it is kind a major straw man since Shama included it
 

IFs, Buts, Candy and Nuts it's over! Next Play! In spite of the PJ factism it doesn't exist we have momentum. We expect another solid season. We expect to beat Michigan, Iowa and Wisconsin for the first time in a season since the 60's. We expect to win the West! PJ has us ready to compete in 2023! Let's go! Row the Boat! Ski U Mah! Go Gophers!
 

Why the obsession with the past?
This year's schedule is a true test of how far MN has progressed under PJ.
 

Plato said:
Why the obsession with the past?
This year's schedule is a true test of how far MN has progressed under PJ.
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Not sure if you ever took a statistics class but a multiple year sample of someone's body of work is generally considered more valuable for evaluation than a handful of games.
 

Plato said:
Why the obsession with the past?
This year's schedule is a true test of how far MN has progressed under PJ.
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It will be interesting
Last time Minnesota faced a schedule this tough was probably 2015.

2015 the team went 5-7 (2-6) then won a bowl game after qualifying by APR
Wins against:
Colorado State
Kent State
Ohio
Purdue (2-10)
Illinois (5-7)
Central Michigan

Losses to
TCU (11-2)
Northwestern (10-3)
Wisconsin (10-3)
Iowa (11-2)
Nebraska (6-7)
Michigan (10-3)
Ohio state (12-1)
 

gopherbadgerman said:
My only bitch besides not beating Iowa - I hate when people throw out 2020. If Gophers had gone 5-2 instead of 3-4 NO ONE would talk about not counting that season.
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Disagree....2020 was such an unprecedented year that little to no stock should be put in the results from that season for any team.

Will be nice in a few years where it will no longer be a factor in the short term records for teams.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Not sure if you ever took a statistics class but a multiple year sample of someone's body of work is generally considered more valuable for evaluation than a handful of games.
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It all depends on what games are in the sample size.
I consider conference games as the only sample with looking at.
Division or conference championships could be included.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
My only bitch besides not beating Iowa - I hate when people throw out 2020. If Gophers had gone 5-2 instead of 3-4 NO ONE would talk about not counting that season.
Click to expand...

If you’re counting total wins it’s dumb to count a shortened season.
 

Plato said:
Why the obsession with the past?
This year's schedule is a true test of how far MN has progressed under PJ.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the past have a lot to do with understanding how far MN has progressed?
 


2020 was a messed-up year. but the B1G played games, and those games counted in the standings.
so those games count when talking about the Gophers' record.

FWIW - if you go by winning percentage, Fleck's first season at 5-7 actually had a slightly lower winning percentage (.417) than the 3-4 season in 2020 (.429).
 

short ornery norwegian said:
2020 was a messed-up year. but the B1G played games, and those games counted in the standings.
so those games count when talking about the Gophers' record.

FWIW - if you go by winning percentage, Fleck's first season at 5-7 actually had a slightly lower winning percentage (.417) than the 3-4 season in 2020 (.429).
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Lemme guess, you are a big Bonds and McGwire guy?
 

gopherbadgerman said:
My only bitch besides not beating Iowa - I hate when people throw out 2020. If Gophers had gone 5-2 instead of 3-4 NO ONE would talk about not counting that season.
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Indiana went 6-1 in the B1G and ended the season ranked #12. I doubt many Hoosier fans consider that a real season, even though they enjoyed the heck out of it. Northwestern was similar at 7-1 in B1G and ending at #10.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
He’s comparing to any other 4 year stretch. He included a year with less games. It’s not apples to apples.
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They played 28 B1G games in that 1960-63 4 year stretch. Played 34 in the 4 year stretch for Fleck. Looking at B1G games winning percentage, the 1960-63 stretch is better and a closer apples to apples comparison IMHO. So yes, 2020 had two fewer B1G games, but in the overall 4 year stretch, there were six more played by comparison.
 

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