Shama: Indiana Football Success Hangs Over Gopher Program

[The Deliberate Stranger]

Bold: 2003 Gopher team was close.

Like the 2019, they played three ranked teams, but they lost to all three whereas 2019 beat Penn State, is basically the difference. Strength of schedule not terribly different ... I don't buy for a second that 2019 PSU was #4 team in the country, no chance.

2003 team beat Wisconsin at home, granted they were not ranked.

2003 gopher team had a sharmin sawwwwft schedule, that Wisconsin team went 7-5, 2919 Penn State went 11-2 and won the Cotton Bowl and finished top ten in the country. They also beat Auburn, the only team to play LSU within a field goal that year

 

[Some guy]

I think everyone would, but part of the reason Cig is he believed that the President they brought over from Georgia would be all in on having football be the money maker for the University. I can't honestly say with a straight face our BoR would be willing to allow athletic department to be attractive enough to that type of coach and then from there the coach has to be good enough, plenty of schools have the resources and still suck

I’m going to be honest I think if cignetti got offered the Purdue job instead of the Indiana job he probably would’ve taken it.

I don’t think it was 6-8 programs in the country he would’ve left JMU for and Indiana was one of them. I think Indiana is the first P4 offer he got.


I agree the gophers have structural issues at times. But I don’t agree that the gophers couldn’t land a coach like that. I agree they might not be able to IDENTIFY but to me that’s a different issue

 

[Some guy]

2003 gopher team had a sharmin sawwwwft schedule, that Wisconsin team went 7-5, 2919 Penn State went 11-2 and won the Cotton Bowl and finished top ten in the country. They also beat Auburn, the only team to play LSU within a field goal that year

2003 gophers were 0-3 vs the top half of the big ten.
They were 5-0 vs the bottom half

it was wild.
And people say that the big ten west era was easy.
The gophers second best win was vs 6-6 northwestern on the season and they finished 10-2

 

[IceBoxGopher]

I think there's two things true here. First, Indiana's success is of course going to be the envy of every college football team that's been trying to turn a corner or get over the hump. I don't think Minnesota is alone in being one of those programs.

But, secondly, I think Minnesota is a bit more unique in a few regards. One is that Minnesota did have history as a football power, and has been trying to reclaim it for decades. It's not just a sense of 'they could do it so why can't we?' It's more, 'We've done it before, why can't we do it again when Indiana just did it in one go?'

The other piece is it's not just Indiana. The Hoosiers are the latest in a string of Midwest/Big Ten football programs that have reached major heights, in Indiana's case the mountain top, while the Gophers have struggled to climb up, only reaching 10+ wins twice.

Wisconsin with Alvarez/Bielema/Chryst, Iowa with Fry/Ferentz, Michigan State with Dantonio, Missouri under Gary Pinkel and now the Hoosiers in the last two years are all nearby examples that such a project can work at non-Blue Blood Midwest schools. Even Illinois, going to a Sugar Bowl and a Rose Bowl in the 2000s, along with the solid run Bielema has them on now counts.

Obviously Indiana set itself apart in that it won the national title, and the rest all varied in overall success. However, all of those programs won division titles, conference titles, had multiple 10+ win seasons, went to/won BCS/NY6 bowls and regularly finished ranked.

Minnesota fans and the team, in the same conference/region, also existing as a major university program in a premier conference with a storied football history, has had to watch all of that while clawing for success, and Indiana's rise just feels like the cherry on top. That's why I think it does sting a bit more.

2003 gophers were 0-3 vs the top half of the big ten.
They were 5-0 vs the bottom half

it was wild.
And people say that the big ten west era was easy.
The gophers second best win was vs 6-6 northwestern on the season and they finished 10-2

2003 gopher team had a sharmin sawwwwft schedule, that Wisconsin team went 7-5, 2919 Penn State went 11-2 and won the Cotton Bowl and finished top ten in the country. They also beat Auburn, the only team to play LSU within a field goal that year

On this point, I do agree that 2019's run was more impressive, because of the strength of schedule, on top of having one more victory. In fairness to the 2003 squad, though, if looking at raw talent, I think the 2003 team is up there overall. They had the roster to beat Michigan and Michigan State that year, but as we all know nothing is won on paper.

Since 2000, though, I still think one of the toughest schedules where Minnesota still finished with a winning record was 2014. Like 2003, that was another one where the Gophers (mostly) beat the teams they should've, many with losing records, while falling against the stronger opponents. However, there were many good teams on the schedule.

• TCU, finished 12-1, Big 12 Champion, Ranked No. 3/3, Won Peach Bowl
• Ohio State, finished 14-1, B1G Champion, National Champion, Ranked No. 1/1, Won CFP
• Wisconsin, finished 11-3, B1G West Champion, Ranked No. 13/13, Won Outback Bowl
• Missouri, finished 11-3, SEC East Champion, Ranked No. 11/14, Won Citrus Bowl

The only bad loss on that 2014 team's schedule was against Illinois. But I think had they played a schedule more akin to 2003, or even what the 2016 squad did, they probably win 10 games.

 

[mngg11]

I’m going to be honest I think if cignetti got offered the Purdue job instead of the Indiana job he probably would’ve taken it.

I don’t think it was 6-8 programs in the country he would’ve left JMU for and Indiana was one of them. I think Indiana is the first P4 offer he got.


I agree the gophers have structural issues at times. But I don’t agree that the gophers couldn’t land a coach like that. I agree they might not be able to IDENTIFY but to me that’s a different issue

To your last paragraph, Fleck was the exact kind of hire for us that Cig was for Indiana. Higher profile based on recent achievement, high reward/row risk, and the U technically swung for the fences as he was the hottest name in that coaching carousel for a school of our caliber (maybe overall? I dont remember the other names that year). He just never achieved to the extent that Cig has, although he's been significantly successful with our program.

 

[Unregistered User]

To your last paragraph, Fleck was the exact kind of hire for us that Cig was for Indiana. Higher profile based on recent achievement, high reward/row risk, and the U technically swung for the fences as he was the hottest name in that coaching carousel for a school of our caliber (maybe overall? I dont remember the other names that year). He just never achieved to the extent that Cig has, although he's been significantly successful with our program.

2016-17 FBS head coaching changes

Here is a list of the FBS head coaching changes made during the 2016 season.

www.espn.com

 

[Some guy]

I think there's two things true here. First, Indiana's success is of course going to be the envy of every college football team that's been trying to turn a corner or get over the hump. I don't think Minnesota is alone in being one of those programs.

But, secondly, I think Minnesota is a bit more unique in a few regards. One is that Minnesota did have history as a football power, and has been trying to reclaim it for decades. It's not just a sense of 'they could do it so why can't we?' It's more, 'We've done it before, why can't we do it again when Indiana just did it in one go?'

The other piece is it's not just Indiana. The Hoosiers are the latest in a string of Midwest/Big Ten football programs that have reached major heights, in Indiana's case the mountain top, while the Gophers have struggled to climb up, only reaching 10+ wins twice.

Wisconsin with Alvarez/Bielema/Chryst, Iowa with Fry/Ferentz, Michigan State with Dantonio, Missouri under Gary Pinkel and now the Hoosiers in the last two years are all nearby examples that such a project can work at non-Blue Blood Midwest schools. Even Illinois, going to a Sugar Bowl and a Rose Bowl in the 2000s, along with the solid run Bielema has them on now counts.

Obviously Indiana set itself apart in that it won the national title, and the rest all varied in overall success. However, all of those programs won division titles, conference titles, had multiple 10+ win seasons, went to/won BCS/NY6 bowls and regularly finished ranked.

Minnesota fans and the team, in the same conference/region, also existing as a major university program in a premier conference with a storied football history, has had to watch all of that while clawing for success, and Indiana's rise just feels like the cherry on top. That's why I think it does sting a bit more.



On this point, I do agree that 2019's run was more impressive, because of the strength of schedule, on top of having one more victory. In fairness to the 2003 squad, though, if looking at raw talent, I think the 2003 team is up there overall. They had the roster to beat Michigan and Michigan State that year, but as we all know nothing is won on paper.

Since 2000, though, I still think one of the toughest schedules where Minnesota still finished with a winning record was 2014. Like 2003, that was another one where the Gophers (mostly) beat the teams they should've, many with losing records, while falling against the stronger opponents. However, there were many good teams on the schedule.

• TCU, finished 12-1, Big 12 Champion, Ranked No. 3/3, Won Peach Bowl
• Ohio State, finished 14-1, B1G Champion, National Champion, Ranked No. 1/1, Won CFP
• Wisconsin, finished 11-3, B1G West Champion, Ranked No. 13/13, Won Outback Bowl
• Missouri, finished 11-3, SEC East Champion, Ranked No. 11/14, Won Citrus Bowl

The only bad loss on that 2014 team's schedule was against Illinois. But I think had they played a schedule more akin to 2003, or even what the 2016 squad did, they probably win 10 games.

Gotta take advantage when you can. Which is why it’s such a shame about MO’s Achilles
And such a shame about laying a couple eggs the next year

 

[The Deliberate Stranger]

I think there's two things true here. First, Indiana's success is of course going to be the envy of every college football team that's been trying to turn a corner or get over the hump. I don't think Minnesota is alone in being one of those programs.

But, secondly, I think Minnesota is a bit more unique in a few regards. One is that Minnesota did have history as a football power, and has been trying to reclaim it for decades. It's not just a sense of 'they could do it so why can't we?' It's more, 'We've done it before, why can't we do it again when Indiana just did it in one go?'

The other piece is it's not just Indiana. The Hoosiers are the latest in a string of Midwest/Big Ten football programs that have reached major heights, in Indiana's case the mountain top, while the Gophers have struggled to climb up, only reaching 10+ wins twice.

Wisconsin with Alvarez/Bielema/Chryst, Iowa with Fry/Ferentz, Michigan State with Dantonio, Missouri under Gary Pinkel and now the Hoosiers in the last two years are all nearby examples that such a project can work at non-Blue Blood Midwest schools. Even Illinois, going to a Sugar Bowl and a Rose Bowl in the 2000s, along with the solid run Bielema has them on now counts.

Obviously Indiana set itself apart in that it won the national title, and the rest all varied in overall success. However, all of those programs won division titles, conference titles, had multiple 10+ win seasons, went to/won BCS/NY6 bowls and regularly finished ranked.

Minnesota fans and the team, in the same conference/region, also existing as a major university program in a premier conference with a storied football history, has had to watch all of that while clawing for success, and Indiana's rise just feels like the cherry on top. That's why I think it does sting a bit more.



On this point, I do agree that 2019's run was more impressive, because of the strength of schedule, on top of having one more victory. In fairness to the 2003 squad, though, if looking at raw talent, I think the 2003 team is up there overall. They had the roster to beat Michigan and Michigan State that year, but as we all know nothing is won on paper.

Since 2000, though, I still think one of the toughest schedules where Minnesota still finished with a winning record was 2014. Like 2003, that was another one where the Gophers (mostly) beat the teams they should've, many with losing records, while falling against the stronger opponents. However, there were many good teams on the schedule.

• TCU, finished 12-1, Big 12 Champion, Ranked No. 3/3, Won Peach Bowl
• Ohio State, finished 14-1, B1G Champion, National Champion, Ranked No. 1/1, Won CFP
• Wisconsin, finished 11-3, B1G West Champion, Ranked No. 13/13, Won Outback Bowl
• Missouri, finished 11-3, SEC East Champion, Ranked No. 11/14, Won Citrus Bowl

The only bad loss on that 2014 team's schedule was against Illinois. But I think had they played a schedule more akin to 2003, or even what the 2016 squad did, they probably win 10 games.

Even that Illinois team made a bowl game!

 

[mngg11]

2016-17 FBS head coaching changes

Here is a list of the FBS head coaching changes made during the 2016 season.

www.espn.com

Fleck maybe wasn't the hottest name by recognition at the time, but has definitely been the most successful of that group, sans Kiffin and Riley? Fleck owns the head to head vs Fickell, Rhule, and Brohm, and is 1-1 vs Riley. Everyone else on the list appears irrelevant today.

If you regraded that hiring class you'd have to give PJ and the U no less than a solid B, right? Dude has been remarkably consistent and resilient.

There's no way Kiffin or Riley would've ended up here (we wouldnt have wanted Freshwater anyways) and Fleck was the popular up and comer having guided a MAC team to the playoffs

 

[The Deliberate Stranger]

I’m going to be honest I think if cignetti got offered the Purdue job instead of the Indiana job he probably would’ve taken it.

I don’t think it was 6-8 programs in the country he would’ve left JMU for and Indiana was one of them. I think Indiana is the first P4 offer he got.


I agree the gophers have structural issues at times. But I don’t agree that the gophers couldn’t land a coach like that. I agree they might not be able to IDENTIFY but to me that’s a different issue

Well imo we did land a good coach in 2016 and when we had a similar season in 2019 that IU had in 2024, we did not take nearly the same steps IU did to invest in the program and sustain.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

Well imo we did land a good coach in 2016 and when we had a similar season in 2019 that IU had in 2024, we did not take nearly the same steps IU did to invest in the program and sustain.

It was Covid’s fault.

 

[The Deliberate Stranger]

It was Covid’s fault.

It didn't help, especially with losing spring ball, summer workouts and having a training camp where all you could really do was talk to your position room on zoom, especially for us when we were breaking in a new defense, of course that affected everyone but the standings played out in. Away where teams like NW and Indiana who had a lot back were able to sneak up on teams, but that 2019 team lost a lot of coaches that off season where as about halfway through 2024 Indiana realizes what they had and re did cig's contract and triples his assistant coaching salary pool so he could keep his staff together

 

[MNVCGUY]

It was Covid’s fault.

It would have been interesting to see if the trajectory of the program would have been different without Covid. 2019 was an awesome year but a big part of our ability to directly capitalize on it was killed by Covid and the mess it made of the 2020 season.

 

[mngg11]

It would have been interesting to see if the trajectory of the program would have been different without Covid. 2019 was an awesome year but a big part of our ability to directly capitalize on it was killed by Covid and the mess it made of the 2020 season.

And Floyd. I think a number of people forgot how close to home that hit the program internally based on the messaging that came from Fleck in the months following it. He could've lost the team but they emerged from it way better than they could have. Followed up with a few 9 win seasons.