Shama: Coach Ben Johnson’s Job Safe for Now

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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Per Shama:

The Gophers have been playing Big Ten basketball for over 115 years. A last place finish this winter in the Big Ten standings (all but certain) will be the program’s second straight in the basement.

That’s never happened before but the 2023 Gophers are historically bad. They have one conference win after last night’s embarrassing 81-46 loss to Maryland—the largest margin of defeat ever for a Minnesota Big Ten home game.

No Gopher team since World War II has won only one conference game. Minnesota’s record is 7-15 overall, 1-11 in league games and the Gophers are stumbling through a seven game Big Ten losing streak.

There are eight games remaining on the regular season schedule and the Gophers are expected to lose them all. They might not but Minnesota faces an ambitious challenge trying to match last season’s dismal 4-16 conference record.

The results of head coach Ben Johnson’s first two seasons leading the program are painful and they substantiate concerns of critics about his hire as a former college assistant with no experience leading a program. But let’s be clear: he is going to be the Gopher head coach for the foreseeable future.

How long? If Johnson directs the program into a competitive position where the Gophers are contending annually for upper-level positioning in the standings, he will be a hero and working in Dinkytown indefinitely. But if the program can’t come out of the abyss by next winter, then athletic director Mark Coyle could be thinking one additional trial year for the 42-year-old Minneapolis native.

It’s delusional to think Johnson will be terminated after this season. The cost to buyout his contract after two years is almost $8 million. The buyout amount (calculated on remaining years of his $1,950,000 annual salary) is reduced by 25 percent, 50 precent and 75 percent after years three, four and five respectively.

Also, Coyle doesn’t do knee-jerk reactions with coaches he hires. Patience with men’s basketball will be the mantra for a while. This comes in an environment where interest in the program has reached apathy status and program revenues are light years from their potential in an athletic department that counts on basketball to be a cash cow to help the budgets of other sports.


Go Gophers!!
 



1. If Ben Johnson's buyout is anywhere near $8 million, that's a fireable offense for Mark Coyle
2. There was no reason to pay Ben Johnson more than $1.5 million annually or to extend him after the first last place season in 30 years. If we were in year 2 of a 5 year/7.5 million dollar contract, a reasonable buyout amonunt would be 2.5 million on April 1 (50% of salary remaining). So again this would be on Coyle.
3. Iowa State paid between 8.5-10 million dollars in buyouts between buying out Prohm and buying Otz out of his UNLV contract (https://247sports.com/college/iowa-...cusses-finances-of-coaching-change-162864272/). If Iowa State can swing that in Ames, Iowa without the benefit of Big Ten dollars and the uncertain (at best) future of the Big 12, and Minnesota cannot, that speaks very poorly of Mark Coyle and his ability to both manage funds and fundraise.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yep, he deserves next season with expectations and I think he'd need a major bounce back. Going 5-15 next year is unacceptable, even if it is a 4 game improvement.
Click to expand...
Needless to say his team has to improve but I don't really know what the number is. If Gophers go winless but lose every game by one point, I would be suicidal but would not fire him.
 


EG#9 said:
1. If Ben Johnson's buyout is anywhere near $8 million, that's a fireable offense for Mark Coyle
2. There was no reason to pay Ben Johnson more than $1.5 million annually or to extend him after the first last place season in 30 years. If we were in year 2 of a 5 year/7.5 million dollar contract, a reasonable buyout amonunt would be 2.5 million on April 1 (50% of salary remaining). So again this would be on Coyle.
Click to expand...
While I don’t disagree we could’ve paid Johnson less, you still pay the going rate for a variety of reasons. Sadly only a couple are related to basketball.
EG#9 said:
3. Iowa State paid between 8.5-10 million dollars in buyouts between buying out Prohm and buying Otz out of his UNLV contract (https://247sports.com/college/iowa-...cusses-finances-of-coaching-change-162864272/). If Iowa State can swing that in Ames, Iowa without the benefit of Big Ten dollars and the uncertain (at best) future of the Big 12, and Minnesota cannot, that speaks very poorly of Mark Coyle and his ability to both manage funds and fundraise.
Click to expand...
You vastly underestimate the support ISU has in Ames. They get boosters to cover those tabs. We don’t have that. We also need regent approval and they won’t. You can be upset with Coyle, but he’s hired by a group of people and that’s whom he reports too. I’m sure they are very plenty happy with him as it’s my understanding he’s done better with fundraising. My god they were happy with Maturi.
 

HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving said:
Needless to say his team has to improve but I don't really know what the number is. If Gophers go winless but lose every game by one point, I would be suicidal but would not fire him.
Click to expand...

I think losing every game by 1 would actually be super funny, minus losing every game. So many unpredictable losses would happen. I’d be suicidal as well but in a fun way!
 


BleedGopher said:
Per Shama:

The Gophers have been playing Big Ten basketball for over 115 years. A last place finish this winter in the Big Ten standings (all but certain) will be the program’s second straight in the basement.

That’s never happened before but the 2023 Gophers are historically bad. They have one conference win after last night’s embarrassing 81-46 loss to Maryland—the largest margin of defeat ever for a Minnesota Big Ten home game.

No Gopher team since World War II has won only one conference game. Minnesota’s record is 7-15 overall, 1-11 in league games and the Gophers are stumbling through a seven game Big Ten losing streak.

There are eight games remaining on the regular season schedule and the Gophers are expected to lose them all. They might not but Minnesota faces an ambitious challenge trying to match last season’s dismal 4-16 conference record.

The results of head coach Ben Johnson’s first two seasons leading the program are painful and they substantiate concerns of critics about his hire as a former college assistant with no experience leading a program. But let’s be clear: he is going to be the Gopher head coach for the foreseeable future.

How long? If Johnson directs the program into a competitive position where the Gophers are contending annually for upper-level positioning in the standings, he will be a hero and working in Dinkytown indefinitely. But if the program can’t come out of the abyss by next winter, then athletic director Mark Coyle could be thinking one additional trial year for the 42-year-old Minneapolis native.

It’s delusional to think Johnson will be terminated after this season. The cost to buyout his contract after two years is almost $8 million. The buyout amount (calculated on remaining years of his $1,950,000 annual salary) is reduced by 25 percent, 50 precent and 75 percent after years three, four and five respectively.

Also, Coyle doesn’t do knee-jerk reactions with coaches he hires. Patience with men’s basketball will be the mantra for a while. This comes in an environment where interest in the program has reached apathy status and program revenues are light years from their potential in an athletic department that counts on basketball to be a cash cow to help the budgets of other sports.


Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...
Who negotiated that contract? Good heavens. An 8 million dollar buyout? CBJ would have signed for the base amount with little or no buyout if it was put to him. That's idiotic.
 




Coyle should be fired for his negotiating skills, while on the other hand, CBJ’s agent should be hired by every player / coach in America
 

EG#9 said:
1. If Ben Johnson's buyout is anywhere near $8 million, that's a fireable offense for Mark Coyle
2. There was no reason to pay Ben Johnson more than $1.5 million annually or to extend him after the first last place season in 30 years. If we were in year 2 of a 5 year/7.5 million dollar contract, a reasonable buyout amonunt would be 2.5 million on April 1 (50% of salary remaining). So again this would be on Coyle.
3. Iowa State paid between 8.5-10 million dollars in buyouts between buying out Prohm and buying Otz out of his UNLV contract (https://247sports.com/college/iowa-...cusses-finances-of-coaching-change-162864272/). If Iowa State can swing that in Ames, Iowa without the benefit of Big Ten dollars and the uncertain (at best) future of the Big 12, and Minnesota cannot, that speaks very poorly of Mark Coyle and his ability to both manage funds and fundraise.
Click to expand...
Football and Hockey = Coyle Capital
He has a ton of it based on those successes.

We’re still paying off Athletes’ Villages as well, so your comment about the AD finances is beyond laughable.

High level people don’t make decisions based on knee jerk reactions/emotional feelings.
 
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Much like Pitino, there's also this in his buyout:

Regent Steve Sviggum said Johnson’s buyout is “skillfully negotiated” and there would be no buyout paid out if coach Johnson were to find a “comparable” position, including head-coaching or assistant job in NCAA.

I'm fairly confident Ben will be able to land at least an assistant job whenever Minnesota decides to cut their losses and try to become a Big Ten basketball program again.

www.twincities.com

Contract of Gophers men’s basketball coach Ben Johnson approved by U regents

The University of Minnesota’s Board of Regents unanimously approved the contract of new Gophers men’s basketball coach Ben Johnson on Wednesday. The regents voted 11-0 with one absence; it came aft…
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Much like Pitino, there's also this in his buyout:

Regent Steve Sviggum said Johnson’s buyout is “skillfully negotiated” and there would be no buyout paid out if coach Johnson were to find a “comparable” position, including head-coaching or assistant job in NCAA.

I'm fairly confident Ben will be able to land at least an assistant job whenever Minnesota decides to cut their losses and try to become a Big Ten basketball program again.

www.twincities.com

Contract of Gophers men’s basketball coach Ben Johnson approved by U regents

The University of Minnesota’s Board of Regents unanimously approved the contract of new Gophers men’s basketball coach Ben Johnson on Wednesday. The regents voted 11-0 with one absence; it came aft…
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com
Click to expand...
I don’t think there any an assistant jobs that pay $2m (for comparable purposes)
 

Gopherfan84 said:
While I don’t disagree we could’ve paid Johnson less, you still pay the going rate for a variety of reasons. Sadly only a couple are related to basketball.

You vastly underestimate the support ISU has in Ames. They get boosters to cover those tabs. We don’t have that. We also need regent approval and they won’t. You can be upset with Coyle, but he’s hired by a group of people and that’s whom he reports too. I’m sure they are very plenty happy with him as it’s my understanding he’s done better with fundraising. My god they were happy with Maturi.
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Great post and info.
 



Well we did have to hold off Montana State......or not.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Much like Pitino, there's also this in his buyout:

Regent Steve Sviggum said Johnson’s buyout is “skillfully negotiated” and there would be no buyout paid out if coach Johnson were to find a “comparable” position, including head-coaching or assistant job in NCAA.

I'm fairly confident Ben will be able to land at least an assistant job whenever Minnesota decides to cut their losses and try to become a Big Ten basketball program again.

www.twincities.com

Contract of Gophers men’s basketball coach Ben Johnson approved by U regents

The University of Minnesota’s Board of Regents unanimously approved the contract of new Gophers men’s basketball coach Ben Johnson on Wednesday. The regents voted 11-0 with one absence; it came aft…
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com
Click to expand...
I actually don't think this makes that much of a difference.

Despite having a buyout, Pitino probably jumped at the New Mexico job because of the opportunity to continue being a HC. The opportunity, in the long term, had more monetary value than his buyout because if he sits out and collects his buyout, who knows when he'd get another HC opportunity.

For Johnson, he would likely get an assistant job somewhere for $200K. Well, I don't think that opportunity is worth the $2 million. He could sit out for a year, collect the buyout and then a similar opportunity is likely sitting there and he has another $2 million in the bank.

Whoever negotiated the buyout on our end butchered it. I don't think Ben's team was really negotiating against us at arms length - I think we could have had him for $800K without much of a buyout.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Football and Hockey = Coyle Capital
He has a ton of it based on those successes.

We’re still paying off Athletes’ Villages as well, so your comment about the AD finances is beyond laughable.

High level people don’t make decisions based on knee jerk reactions/emotional feelings.
Click to expand...
Fleck was a great hire, but he hasn't exactly taken hockey to a new level. In the six completed mens hockey seasons since Coyle took over, we have one Frozen Four, one conference tournament championship, and two regular season conference championships. In the six seasons before he took over, we had two Frozen Fours (including one championship game appearance), 1 conference tournament championship, and 5 regular season conference championships (two of which were the old WCHA).

On the women's side, we have two Frozen Fours, one conference tournament championship, and two regular season conference titles in the six years since he arrived. In the six years before he arrived, we were in the Frozen Four five times with 4 national titles, won the conference tournament three times, and the regular season three times. For both mens and womens, we should remember one of Coyle's years had the NCAA tournament cancelled for COVID, and maybe we would have made a splash in those tournaments, but I don't think we had number 1 ranked teams at the end in either season that would lead us to believe we were robbed of the finish of our best season in either sport. That said, anything can happen.

So, since Coyle has been here, he has significantly improved football, both basketball teams are circling the drain, women's hockey has been worse, and men's hockey has been comparable but slightly worse than the six years before he arrived. No problem crediting him for the football improvement, but his complete body of work doesn't have me convinced he walks on water.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Fleck was a great hire, but he hasn't exactly taken hockey to a new level. In the six completed mens hockey seasons since Coyle took over, we have one Frozen Four, one conference tournament championship, and two regular season conference championships. In the six seasons before he took over, we had two Frozen Fours (including one championship game appearance), 1 conference tournament championship, and 5 regular season conference championships (two of which were the old WCHA).

On the women's side, we have two Frozen Fours, one conference tournament championship, and two regular season conference titles in the six years since he arrived. In the six years before he arrived, we were in the Frozen Four five times with 4 national titles, won the conference tournament three times, and the regular season three times. For both mens and womens, we should remember one of Coyle's years had the NCAA tournament cancelled for COVID, and maybe we would have made a splash in those tournaments, but I don't think we had number 1 ranked teams at the end in either season that would lead us to believe we were robbed of the finish of our best season in either sport. That said, anything can happen.

So, since Coyle has been here, he has significantly improved football, both basketball teams are circling the drain, women's hockey has been worse, and men's hockey has been comparable but slightly worse than the six years before he arrived. No problem crediting him for the football improvement, but his complete body of work doesn't have me convinced he walks on water.
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Fair enough, but has there been that significant drop off in hockey, when you factor in more competition with more colleges adding it and more HS girls playing it, so MN isn’t one of the only primary talent pools available?
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Coyle should be fired for his negotiating skills, while on the other hand, CBJ’s agent should be hired by every player / coach in America
Click to expand...
You should do more research on coaches contracts and our previous ADs. Coyles good and didn’t hamstring us much at all with Ben’s contract.
I know we don’t like his bball hires, but he’s been good for MN athletics imo.
 
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$8m after 2 years really isn't meaningful so I don't know why people are upset. He was never going to be fired after 2 years without cause, and with cause there would be no buyout. So it's really just staying at market which makes the U look better to outsiders.
 

Tuesday’s noon show with Ben on the Fan will be lit. Last weeks was a disaster so I can only imagine.
 

mngolf said:
$8m after 2 years really isn't meaningful so I don't know why people are upset. He was never going to be fired after 2 years without cause, and with cause there would be no buyout. So it's really just staying at market which makes the U look better to outsiders.
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This is the kind of thing that subsidized institutions do. It's nuts. 8 million for appearance sake. If Ben were offered the job and they said- no buyout- you have never done this before but you get your 2 million per year...he takes it in a heartbeat.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Much like Pitino, there's also this in his buyout:

Regent Steve Sviggum said Johnson’s buyout is “skillfully negotiated” and there would be no buyout paid out if coach Johnson were to find a “comparable” position, including head-coaching or assistant job in NCAA.

I'm fairly confident Ben will be able to land at least an assistant job whenever Minnesota decides to cut their losses and try to become a Big Ten basketball program again.

www.twincities.com

Contract of Gophers men’s basketball coach Ben Johnson approved by U regents

The University of Minnesota’s Board of Regents unanimously approved the contract of new Gophers men’s basketball coach Ben Johnson on Wednesday. The regents voted 11-0 with one absence; it came aft…
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com
Click to expand...
If he got fired and had 8 million coming, why in heavens name would he go sign up for a 300k per year assistant job in order to forfeit the 8 million? I beg to differ with Sviggum on the level of skill that took.
 

bga1 said:
This is the kind of thing that subsidized institutions do. It's nuts. 8 million for appearance sake. If Ben were offered the job and they said- no buyout- you have never done this before but you get your 2 million per year...he takes it in a heartbeat.
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You don't want to turn off the next hire by looking cheap(Twins). Especially if you can do it without costing much.
 

Was that the entire article? Or just part of it?

If that Shaman guy wrote an article of just that...either he's a LIAR or he's an IDIOT.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
He's going to reaffirm his commitment to ferocious defense and grit, and guarantee we won't finish last.
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I suspect that previous to the show Ben is provided the list of questions that Grimmer will ask. Ben either doesn’t review them or doesn’t care so when Grimm asks the question and Ben doesn’t answer it directly, Gaaaaaaaaardsy takes over reframes the question while simultaneously answering the question. You can hear Grimm’s frustration only if you are familiar with Grimm.
 

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