Shama: 5,503 public season tickets have been sold, a 20% drop from 2019-2020 last time fans could attend

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Personally, I don't blame any of this on Ben Johnson; never have. He did what people do everyday: Accepted a job he was offered. He went on an interview, was offered the job and given a huge salary. Literally happens every day in every profession.

The mess that is the men's hoops program falls squarely on Coyle, the board and likely on president Gabel. I just hope fans can separate the miserable season that awaits from Johnson or even the players to a certain extent and understand where this cluster begins.

It fully begins with the U's administrators, who bungled this process so thoroughly that they stand to lose both revenue and fans hand over fist for the foreseeable future.
 
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Decided not to renew my tickets this year. It wasn’t really one thing, but more a combination of many factors that have been discussed here. I would usually go to about 75% of the games with my dad, my wife, or one of 3-4 different friends. Either sell or give away the other 25%. My friends all have young families so they have their obligations at home, and also aren’t very excited about this years team. Dad has had some health issues so is not real comfortable going to games in an indoor arena where mask-wearing is lax. Wife has never really cared much about basketball, and we’ll hopefully be adding to our own family soon. And personally I’m not real excited about this year’s team plus it is just way more convenient and less expensive to watch the games at home. I’ll probably buy tickets for a couple games. Not real worried about being able to re-up on my season tickets at some point in the future if circumstances and excitement around the program change.

Would be curious if the ticket office has done any research on the reasons behind the drop in season ticket numbers. Is it the coaching hire? COVID worries in an indoor arena? Just general lack of excitement around the program? Probably all the above to a degree, but I wonder if one of those or something else is a driving factor.
 

leib0039 said:
I dont think people buy season tickets for the coach per se. A Kansas fan doesnt buy tickets to see Bill Self coach the game, but the coaches style, recuits and success do matter. I would hazard a guess if Smith/Dutcher got the job they would have been up a bit from these numbers simply because we would have probably pushed a little harder for "win now" guys and you could say hey look at their recent teams, we might be solid! I think under Muss they would have been up from last year because thats how Muss recruits, he gets high profile grad transfers that people can talk themselves into. "Hey I dont know if he is any good, but he was a 4* and went to Duke, and this guy put up 26 ppg who cares if it was at Winthrop, and this guy lead the ASun in rebounds and blocks, hey we are going to be exciting and good lets do it!" None of those things have to do with the person the coach is, but the coaches choices do lead to these numbers. We got a group of under whelming names who have been largely assumed to get destroyed this year, along with a non-rah rah personality leads to a drop in sales. That isnt a knock on BJ its just the truth. Like many said, his personality or style wont matter if we win games. People can complain about Wisconsin all they want, but if the Gophers go 22-10 every year it wont matter if we average 42 points a game and only get 2* recruits, the place will fill up.

The administration (Gable, Coyle, Regents, etc) had to know this was almost a 100% given when they made the hire. The odds we see a huge bump in ticket sales for the next 1-3 years isnt really high, we all hope it is, but that will be a wait and see thing.
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I understand your point, but re: Muss. He has signed two 5-stars and three 4-star high school recruits for the '22 class. And I think this also goes for others who many think only recruit via the portal. They may start that way, but with a little success it becomes more of a blend of high school and portal. It started more with basketball, but now college football coaches are realizing the portal is friend and not a poor reflection on coach or program.
 

topos said:
I'm genuinely curious what they could have done to convince you to renew.
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I'll tell you mine because I was in a similar situation.

Even though I don't live in the cities, I was on the fence about buying season tickets. I don't know, I like having them and I end up giving the majority of my tickets to family, friends, etc. I wish there was a better system for maybe donating tickets to neighboring schools (other programs do a much better job of this), I even probably could have been talked into keeping my tickets. To be honest, it feels weird not being a season ticket holder and one of the reasons I let them go is that it seemed like the U was "take it or leave it" with the season ticket holders. How they handled my renewal, kind of confirmed that.
 


goldengophers said:
I still can't understand why this was bulldoze scenario, the further from the hire we get the more headscratching it is.
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At the end of the day, the only thing that can really sustain season ticket growth is winning. If they really believed that Ben Johnson gives us the best chance to win basketball games, then the season tickets will follow. I've made it clear I'm skeptical that played much a role in this hiring and I'm skeptical it even matters to the people above Coyle. But if Ben Johnson wins, people will show up.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'll tell you mine because I was in a similar situation.

Even though I don't live in the cities, I was on the fence about buying season tickets. I don't know, I like having them and I end up giving the majority of my tickets to family, friends, etc. I wish there was a better system for maybe donating tickets to neighboring schools (other programs do a much better job of this), I even probably could have been talked into keeping my tickets. To be honest, it feels weird not being a season ticket holder and one of the reasons I let them go is that it seemed like the U was "take it or leave it" with the season ticket holders. How they handled my renewal, kind of confirmed that.
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Minor miracle here, but BobLob and I are basically in complete alignment here. As a 25 year season ticket holder, supporting this program has been trying some years - the ebbs have far outweighed the flows over that time period. Even the glory of '97 was blown off the map and the success beyond that was always one-off, not at all sustained. As such, I took the view that my season ticket purchase was not for that year per se, but an investment in the program and in the really bad years, I rationalized my renewal by considering the entire package a donation. Indeed, there have been several years/games where I literally couldn't give my tickets away to anyone I knew; nobody wanted them - and not even for Gophers vs. Hyphen State U, but even Big Ten games.

I also am not a win at all costs guy and can be entertained and engaged with a sports program that has interesting characters, a fun style of play and interesting entertainment outside the game itself. I enjoy the college vibe at Williams Arena - even through the pro-style "upgrades" like super loud rock music, instead of the band (ok, boomer). I enjoy watching a good coach develop and improve his team and root for those kids sometimes more than the incredibly gifted athletes. Not alone here, but Bobby Jackson is my all-time favorite and not solely because he was such a great athlete. He is exactly the type of athlete that I was/am, in terms of his approach, so I identify strongly with that type of athlete. He left nothing in the tank by the end of the game. He gave every single thing he had to the game and it helped him reach heights his athleticism alone would not have. Players like Bobby, Dusty Rychart, Jordan Murphy, Zach Puchtel, those gritty, determined players are super fun to watch play and develop.

Pitino had some good teams and I do believe he was a decent coach. But I just think he didn't adapt well to the personnel he put together on a yearly basis. I was really fed up last year watching them chuck up 40 threes a game at a 25% clip. I just think Dick Pit needs 4 and 5 star athletes to be a good coach. His system offers too much freedom to lesser athletes. A guy like Amir Coffey could thrive, because he was such a smart player. But others struggled and then add to that Carr, who would shoot from half-court, if he was open - not out of selfishness, but confidence, I just don't think Pitino knew how to hone that type of group.

I don't know if Ben Johnson is the answer. It's a head-scratching hire, for sure. A guy like Dutcher didn't do much for me either. I think had they hired Musselman, I would have renewed. Outside of that, the marketing crew would have had to tug at my hearts strings at least a little bit. But, they basically mailed it in and I didn't pick up the phone. As anyone in marketing knows, once you lose a customer, it's often very difficult to get them back. You have to hang onto committed long time customers for dear life. It's the lifeblood of any product. It's just plain bad business not to try.

/rant
 

I think this season was probably going to be rough no matter who was hired. But if it was someone like Musselman there probably would have been more people hold on to the season tix because the chances of success down the road are probably greater.

This says to me that many people aren't convinced Johnson can win here, not just this year but in the future too. And the skepticism is valid as he hasn't proven anything yet.
 

Call me disappointed but not surprised that it appears that our athletic department has done little to nothing to hold on to longtime and loyal season ticket holders. I held on because I like the game and it keeps me connected with the people I go with. That has always been the case, and probably will be into the future. The fact that they have not come up with a clever marketing gimmick about grit, development and the future suggests that they either don't care or the department is in a free fall adapting to post pandemic economic reality.

The malaise is even more disconcerting than the head scratching hire. I'm 100% with the sentiment that this is not Ben's fault or problem. This is way above his head.
 



Holy Man said:
Call me disappointed but not surprised that it appears that our athletic department has done little to nothing to hold on to longtime and loyal season ticket holders. I held on because I like the game and it keeps me connected with the people I go with. That has always been the case, and probably will be into the future. The fact that they have not come up with a clever marketing gimmick about grit, development and the future suggests that they either don't care or the department is in a free fall adapting to post pandemic economic reality.

The malaise is even more disconcerting than the head scratching hire. I'm 100% with the sentiment that this is not Ben's fault or problem. This is way above his head.
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That the football program still get great content out compared to what has been put out for the basketball program might suggest something else is lacking or going on behind the scenes.

i think PJ is very much involved in the marketing of his program, i think in past interviews he even aluded (Sp) to the production crew at the U.

this is what i pointed out about Ben right after his 2nd and subsequent tv apperances. He is just way too mellow. I dont think the marketing for his program is the same as football because Ben doesnt care about that like PJ.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
That the football program still get great content out compared to what has been put out for the basketball program might suggest something else is lacking or going on behind the scenes.

i think PJ is very much involved in the marketing of his program, i think in past interviews he even aluded (Sp) to the production crew at the U.

this is what i pointed out about Ben right after his 2nd and subsequent tv apperances. He is just way too mellow. I dont think the marketing for his program is the same as football because Ben doesnt care about that like PJ.
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I agree with this. This may not be Ben's fault per se, but if the department is letting him down, sometimes you have to be your own salesman. He's not doing much on that front from what I have seen.

I listen to a fair amount of MSP sports talk and Gopher basketball discussion is zero out side of an occasional recruiting nugget from Doogie. I don't fault them really, but it doesn't seem like Ben's banging down the door to give interviews or drive interest.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'll tell you mine because I was in a similar situation.

Even though I don't live in the cities, I was on the fence about buying season tickets. I don't know, I like having them and I end up giving the majority of my tickets to family, friends, etc. I wish there was a better system for maybe donating tickets to neighboring schools (other programs do a much better job of this), I even probably could have been talked into keeping my tickets. To be honest, it feels weird not being a season ticket holder and one of the reasons I let them go is that it seemed like the U was "take it or leave it" with the season ticket holders. How they handled my renewal, kind of confirmed that.
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Understood. I appreciate the insight.
 

Granted, Johnson is not a 'wild and crazy' guy.

But, I think he is an intelligent guy, he's a Gopher alum and I think he can be an effective salesman for the program - IF he is presented in the right way.

If I was doing marketing for the U, I would hit heavy on the 'hometown' aspect - He's "One Of Us."
maybe do a takeoff on those old EF Hutton ads - with the point that Ben may not be a carnival barker, but when he talks, it's worth listening to. have some fun with it - do an ad where a "consultant" tries to get Ben to be more "upbeat," but Ben responds with "that's not me."
Or even an ad with Fleck trying to get Ben to be more like Fleck, but it doesn't work.

being sincere and honest is not a bad thing. you can sell that, if you put some effort into it.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
Granted, Johnson is not a 'wild and crazy' guy.

But, I think he is an intelligent guy, he's a Gopher alum and I think he can be an effective salesman for the program - IF he is presented in the right way.

If I was doing marketing for the U, I would hit heavy on the 'hometown' aspect - He's "One Of Us."
maybe do a takeoff on those old EF Hutton ads - with the point that Ben may not be a carnival barker, but when he talks, it's worth listening to. have some fun with it - do an ad where a "consultant" tries to get Ben to be more "upbeat," but Ben responds with "that's not me."
Or even an ad with Fleck trying to get Ben to be more like Fleck, but it doesn't work.

being sincere and honest is not a bad thing. you can sell that, if you put some effort into it.
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thats all true. At the end of the day, not many ppl are like PJ.
If marketing the program to the public is not as important to Ben as to PJ, I care but in reality what I care about more is winning.
 

I just don't get the feeling they are setting up Ben for success, why has nearly everything since he was hired been a dry desert? When you hire someone with as little experience and overall marketability your athletic department needs to divert and increase resources around him. This is why Coyle typically hires big personalities or people with proven success. Coyle has to be looking for other jobs...
 
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goldengophers said:
I just don't get the feeling they are setting up Ben for success, why has nearly everything since he was hired been a dry desert? When you hire someone with as little experience and overall marketability your athletic department needs to divert and increase resources around him. This is why Coyle typically hires big personalities or people with proven success. Coyle has to be looking for other jobs...
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Honestly, I think it's intentional. I think they'd prefer for super casual fans not to look into his resume (especially when our team will likely struggle). It really feels like the U would like to pretend we don't have a team this year.

I also think journalists are timid to rip the hiring and I can see why. You can look at the countless people on this board that hint that any criticism towards the hiring is somehow a borderline racist attack on Ben Johnson. We live in bizarre world where truth isn't super important. You can look at Mike Tomlin's bizarre rant (and the rush to praise the rant). It wasn't the truth. This year, Pete Carroll was questioned about going to USC. Sean Payton has been rumored to Texas in the past. Gruden had been asked about tons of college jobs. Harbaugh left San Fran for Michigan (he was asked about it before he left). White coaches have been asked about college jobs tons and tons of times. It's usually good coaches. Mike Tomlin twisted a compliment into being a victim and was praised for it - - while being dead wrong.

So I think there is some hesitancy to rip the hire or even talk about the hire. How do you talk about it without discussing the elephant in the room? I think the U knows this too. We are going to have a really bad team and a coach who doesn't really have much of a resume, while those things aren't really connected, I think they're okay without it having much publicity right now.
 

goldengophers said:
I just don't get the feeling they are setting up Ben for success, why has nearly everything since he was hired been a dry desert? When you hire someone with as little experience and overall marketability your athletic department needs to divert and increase resources around him. This is why Coyle typically hires big personalities or people with proven success. Coyle has to be looking for other jobs...
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To some extent, but all they have to sell is some distant future hope. The last thing you want to do is over hype and under deliver.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Honestly, I think it's intentional. I think they'd prefer for super casual fans not to look into his resume (especially when our team will likely struggle). It really feels like the U would like to pretend we don't have a team this year.

I also think journalists are timid to rip the hiring and I can see why. You can look at the countless people on this board that hint that any criticism towards the hiring is somehow a borderline racist attack on Ben Johnson. We live in bizarre world where truth isn't super important. You can look at Mike Tomlin's bizarre rant (and the rush to praise the rant). It wasn't the truth. This year, Pete Carroll was questioned about going to USC. Sean Payton has been rumored to Texas in the past. Gruden had been asked about tons of college jobs. Harbaugh left San Fran for Michigan (he was asked about it before he left). White coaches have been asked about college jobs tons and tons of times. It's usually good coaches. Mike Tomlin twisted a compliment into being a victim and was praised for it - - while being dead wrong.

So I think there is some hesitancy to rip the hire or even talk about the hire. How do you talk about it without discussing the elephant in the room? I think the U knows this too. We are going to have a really bad team and a coach who doesn't really have much of a resume, while those things aren't really connected, I think they're okay without it having much publicity right now.
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Why do you continue to defend that hill?

Your comments about Tomlin not telling the truth are not true! Mike was just emphatically stopping any rumors that he was interested in coaching college football. He said he had one of the best jobs in all of football why would he want to go coach college football. He then mentioned the names of a couple other well established, accomplished coaches to point out how the question was so ridiculous. Google searches do not produce any links to any questions or rumors about coaching college for Sean Payton or Andy Reid. Mike did not mention any of the other coaches that you listed, all of those coaches have prior college head coaching experience. I see that Stephen A did turn it into a race issue, but that is not what I saw in the Mike Tomlin statement.
 

What surprises me is how much tickets cost. I go to Minnesota over Christmas and bought seven tickets for a sparsely attended pre-season game and it nearly broke the bank. It would seem to me that you'd lower the price to what the market would hold and it's a lot more fun to go to a stadium that is full than half empty. I have no problem with the hire but in Covid times, going to a big indoor party doesn't seem like a good choice quite yet. Know too many people who died.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Gopher football sold more season tickets for this year than they had sold in 2019…just as a point of reference. Same school, same market, same Covid.
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Not the same for Covid...indoor versus outdoor...not even close to the same risks. I believe outdoors is 17 times less dangerous.
 

CoMn said:
Not the same for Covid...indoor versus outdoor...not even close to the same risks. I believe outdoors is 17 times less dangerous.
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I meant same Covid as in they didn’t have fans either.
 

To defend Ben a bit...it's not his job to market to the fans as much as to market the program to players and coaches. It does seem like on the recruiting front he's doing a good job. Time will tell but I am optimistic. I couldn't stand Pitino's coaching. I think he was less than average and his player development was lousy. Some players got better but good coaches make nearly all players a lot better from freshman to senior year.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Granted, Johnson is not a 'wild and crazy' guy.

But, I think he is an intelligent guy, he's a Gopher alum and I think he can be an effective salesman for the program - IF he is presented in the right way.

If I was doing marketing for the U, I would hit heavy on the 'hometown' aspect - He's "One Of Us."
maybe do a takeoff on those old EF Hutton ads - with the point that Ben may not be a carnival barker, but when he talks, it's worth listening to. have some fun with it - do an ad where a "consultant" tries to get Ben to be more "upbeat," but Ben responds with "that's not me."
Or even an ad with Fleck trying to get Ben to be more like Fleck, but it doesn't work.

being sincere and honest is not a bad thing. you can sell that, if you put some effort into it.
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They will be looking for a new basketball coach as soon as his contract is up and maybe sooner. You know it, I know it and unfortunately everyone else does, too. This is going to be a disaster. It's like looking off the front deck of the Titanic and seeing a huge iceberg dead ahead.
 

Gold Rush said:
They will be looking for a new basketball coach as soon as his contract is up and maybe sooner. You know it, I know it and unfortunately everyone else does, too. This is going to be a disaster. It's like looking off the front deck of the Titanic and seeing a huge iceberg dead ahead.
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I tend to agree as I think this has Ryan Saunders written all over it. I want Ben to succeed but this is going to be a tough road in the best conference with top end coaches all around.
 

goldengophers said:
I tend to agree as I think this has Ryan Saunders written all over it. I want Ben to succeed but this is going to be a tough road in the best conference with top end coaches all around.
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Interesting. Why Saunders ? He has not even offered a hint of elite. No one has hired him .
 

alchemy2u said:
Why do you continue to defend that hill?

Your comments about Tomlin not telling the truth are not true! Mike was just emphatically stopping any rumors that he was interested in coaching college football. He said he had one of the best jobs in all of football why would he want to go coach college football. He then mentioned the names of a couple other well established, accomplished coaches to point out how the question was so ridiculous. Google searches do not produce any links to any questions or rumors about coaching college for Sean Payton or Andy Reid. Mike did not mention any of the other coaches that you listed, all of those coaches have prior college head coaching experience. I see that Stephen A did turn it into a race issue, but that is not what I saw in the Mike Tomlin statement.
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What hill am I defending? It's literally the first time I've ever said that part of the reason (IMO) the U is not covering the hire is because why he was hired. It's literally the first time I've ever written about it.

If you don't think Mike Tomlin was hinting that it was a race issue, you're insane. You people hint at things and then don't even have the courage to say the things you're obviously hinting. SAS is annoying, but at least he has the balls to say what he really means.

Also, your google doesn't work. Sean Payton was rumored to Texas in 2013. Give it another try.

You seem to really struggle with the meaning of common phrases and google, otherwise I would have told you to look some of this stuff up.
 

CoMn said:
To defend Ben a bit...it's not his job to market to the fans as much as to market the program to players and coaches. It does seem like on the recruiting front he's doing a good job. Time will tell but I am optimistic. I couldn't stand Pitino's coaching. I think he was less than average and his player development was lousy. Some players got better but good coaches make nearly all players a lot better from freshman to senior year.
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100%. This isn't on Ben at all. For me, the only thing that matters is winning games. I think PJ's salesmanship works for the football team, but I don't think you need that kind of energy to be a successful football coach. Winning is the only thing that matters.
 

builtbadgers said:
Interesting. Why Saunders ? He has not even offered a hint of elite. No one has hired him .
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They were both hired for jobs they otherwise would never have gotten if it wasn't for provincial (and possibly other non-basketball related) reasons.

No one hired Saunders except for the Timberwolves.
No one has hired Ben Johnson except for the Gophers.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
They were both hired for jobs they otherwise would never have gotten if it wasn't for provincial (and possibly other non-basketball related) reasons.

No one hired Saunders except for the Timberwolves.
No one has hired Ben Johnson except for the Gophers.
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Exactly my point. Some fans seem to put great value on where your from and or what your name is. Saunders has done nothing to suggest that he would even get the consideration that Ben got.
 

builtbadgers said:
Exactly my point. Some fans seem to put great value on where your from and or what your name is. Saunders has done nothing to suggest that he would even get the consideration that Ben got.
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Both unqualified, can certainly argue degrees of unqualifiedness.
 

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