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Looking at the 2006/2007 classes and who is left, there should not be a lot of surprise over our results this season (or what to expect next season). These are our redshirt seniors and our true seniors.

2006
Dominic Alford OL - on and off starter
Tommy Becker LB - plays DIII these days
Andy Brinkhaus OL - non-contributor
Garrett Brown DT - major contributor, graduated
R.J. Buckner DB - non-contributor
D.J. Burris OL - on and off starter
Brylee Callender RB - CC, then failed out? Not sure
Lee Campbell LB - major contributor, graduated
Duran Cooley DB - JUCO, graduated
Willie Dyson DE - not with team
Eric Ellestad K - finally playing, contributing
Ben Fischer WR - not with team, graduated? non contributor
Jamar Howard WR - didn't qualify
E.J. Jones ATH - I'll avoid the cheap shot...not with team
Daron Love DB - not with team
Robert McField DE - jail last I heard?
Sean McWhirter DE - not with team
Josh Robertson DB - don't even remember this guy
Rudy Robinson LB - ditto
Terrence Sherrer RB - not with team, transferred
Adam Weber QB - major contributor, to some people's behest :)
Mike Wey LB - non contributor, not with team

2007
Duane Bennett RB - part time starter, major contributor. Garnered one Emmit Smith comparison his first year :)
Clint Brewster QB - last I heard he was third string QB for a D 1-AA team in the South
Chris Bunders OL - starting guard/part of rotation - major contributor
Justin Chatman ATH - not with team, non-contributor
Marc Cheatham WR - JUCO, non-contributor
Ryan Collado DB - part time starter/major nickel role
Trey Davis OL - will likely be a starter next year
Serge Elizee DT - didn't get into Carlson, never matriculated
Tray Herndon WR - whoops! not here anymore
Harold Howell ATH - most electrifying player in this class...not here anymore
Anthony Jacobs DE - part of DL rotation, starter next year
Durrell Clark- JamesDB - JUCO, non-contributor
Collin McGarry TE - haven't seen him out there much, non contributor?
Ryan Orton OL - part of rotation, some contributions
Shane Potter DB - at SDSU or USD now?
Eric Small DE - major contributor, graduated
Andre Tate' RB - at St. Thomas, or elsewhere, now? Disappointed about this one.
Kyle Theret DB - major contributor, 4 year starter
Curtis Thomas DB - one of our fastest players to not catch NDSU's fullback...sigh. Gone.
Jimmy Thompson WR - non-contributor, gone.
Logan Uu LB - JUCO, non-contributor (except for a big late hit I remember)
Ryan Wynn - injured, hasn't really contributed so far but could next year
Damien White WR - sadly, killed back in LA after leaving team
Ralph Spry WR - Auburn gave him a scholarship? Transferred.
Derrick Onwuachi DE - JUCO, mostly a major contributor, graduated


Wow! Out of those two classes, we will have 10-12 contributors to the team next year, by my calculations. That is bush league. The short amount of time for Brewster to recruit/losing a few recruits (like Greg Jones...sigh) really hurts. Mason's poor 2006 class hurts. So does Brewster's running off of recruits/attrition due to coaching change/taking low quality, late recruits. Brewster's 2008 class is really going to have to step up!
 




Shouldn't you also look at 2005? Any redshirts would still be around. Tavale, Triplett and Haudan are the only ones I can think of right now.
 


You spend an hour on these things, post them and get three comments. Just trying to put something up there to show it was read. So yeah probably a little of both.

But really I do remember all the departures and misses in Brewster's first year. And all the mismatched recruits from Mason's classes. It is interesting to actually see it all, and think about the tremendous handicap this program has had as we wait for the full classes to mature.
 

The retention issue was not particularly isolated. For example, in 2004 we signed six QBs. Guess what? They didn't all hang around.
 

2006 team member Ben Fischer transferred to Winona State and is averaging 9.1 points per game as a member of the basketball team.

Non-qualifier Jamar Howard is now a junior with the Cincinnati Bearcats after spending two years at the College of the Sequoias and caught 3 passes this past season.

Serge Elizee played for Southern Methodist University after deciding not to attend the University of Minnesota.

Trey Herndon now plays for Vanderbilt and caught 1 pass this past season (his sophomore season after sitting out last year).

Jimmy Thompson from 2007 transferred to South Dakota and was starting strong safety for the Coyotes this past season.

Shane Potter also transferred to South Dakota and lined up beside Thompson as the starting free safety.

Tommie Becker is appropriately a Tommie, starting at LB for St. Thomas.

Couldn't find much on the other guys who didn't stick around.
 

Schnoodler said:
You spend an hour on these things, post them and get three comments. Just trying to put something up there to show it was read. So yeah probably a little of both.

But really I do remember all the departures and misses in Brewster's first year. And all the mismatched recruits from Mason's classes. It is interesting to actually see it all, and think about the tremendous handicap this program has had as we wait for the full classes to mature.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I needed a break from grading and it took me about 20 minutes.
 



Winnipegopher said:
Shouldn't you also look at 2005? Any redshirts would still be around. Tavale, Triplett and Haudan are the only ones I can think of right now.
Click to expand...

Those guys will have graduated after this year...I was mostly looking at how next year's team but realized the argument worked pretty well from this years team as well.
 

harrys ghost said:
The retention issue was not particularly isolated. For example, in 2004 we signed six QBs. Guess what? They didn't all hang around.
Click to expand...

I think that was a combination of ineffectiveness, injury, and incompetence on the behalf of the coaching staff. I mostly meant that when Mason was fired, several guys left the team/decided to switch their commitments. Brewster ran a few guys off the team as well (intentionally or unintentionally).
 

Great post! This really puts into perspective the uphill climb and relatively bare cupboard Brewster inherited.
 

AhliBobwa said:
Great post! This really puts into perspective the uphill climb and relatively bare cupboard Brewster inherited.
Click to expand...

All that disappointing recruiting/talent-gap reality makes 6-6 and a bowl look like a real coaching achievement relative to BT brethern IL, Michigan, Purdue and Indiana.
 



NewEngland_Gold said:
All that disappointing recruiting/talent-gap reality makes 6-6 and a bowl look like a real coaching achievement relative to BT brethern IL, Michigan, Purdue and Indiana.
Click to expand...

I compared the stats from the last 2 years(7-6, 6-6) look at the production numbers versus the 2008 class. Also included is the 09 class, look at the talent that was allowed to RS this year.
The future IS bright folks, the 08 class is doing alot of heavy lifting, the production will go up as they and the 09 class mature physically and mentally.

06 8 players of 22
RSJr Dominic Alford OL 20 games 13 starts
RSJr Andy Brinkhaus OL 1 game
Sr Garrett Brown DT 77 tackles 11.5 TFL 1 sacks 3FF 1FR
Sr R.J. Buckner DB no playing time
RSJr D.J. Burris OL 19 games 14 starts
Sr Lee Campbell LB 192 tackles 15 TFL 4.5 sacks 3 INT 1 FF 3 FR 2 block kicks
RSJr Eric Ellestad K 11-14 kicking
RSJr Adam Weber QB 428-745-27-22 5082 pass 98-4 rush

07 11 players of 24
RSSo Duane Bennett RB 542-8 rush 26-302-3
RSSo Chris Bunders OL 19 games 15 starts
Jr Ryan Collado DB 50 tackles 4 TFL 2 sacks 1 INT 1FF 1 FR
RSSo Trey Davis OL 10 game 4 start
RSSo Anthony Jacobs DE 26 tackles 5 TFL 2.5 sacks
Jr Collin McGarry TE some playing time
RSSo Ryan Orton OL 17 games 7 starts
Sr Eric Small DT 51 tackles 8.5 TFL 2 sacks 2 FF 2 FR
Jr Kyle Theret DB 144 tackles 3.5 TFL 1 INT 2 FR
Sr Logan Uu LB 3 tackles
RSFr Ryan Wynn OL 13 games 13 starts

08 24 players of 29
So Xzavian Brandon WR RS
RSFr Keanon Cooper LB 43 tackles 2.5 TFL 1 sack 1 FF 2 blocked kicks
SoTim Dandridge DB 3 tackles
So Jewhan Edwards DT 13 tackles 3.5 TFL 1 FR
So Deleon Eskridge RB 937 yd rush 31-199 rec
RSFrRyan Grant LB 1 tackle
Fr MarQueis Gray QB 231 yd rush 5-13-1-1 pass 4-21-1 rec
So Brandon Green WR 42-598-2 rec
So Johnny Johnson DB 6 tackles
So Brandon Kirksey DE 22 tackles 4 TFL 1 FF
So Eric Lair TE 8 yd rush
Sr Simoni Lawrence DB 143 tackles 18.5 TFL 6 sacks 2 INT 3 FF 1 FR 2 TD
Fr Sam Maresh LB RS
Sr Cedric McKinley DE 41 tackles 10.5 TFL 5 sacks 2 FF 3 FR
So Da'Jon McKnight WR 13-235-1 rec
Sr David Pittman WR 4-32 rec
Fr Spencer Reeves LB 1 tackle
So Shady Salamon RB 6 tackles 140 yd rush 9-91-1 rec
Sr Rex Sharpe LB 9 tackles
Sr Traye Simmons DB 95 tackles 2.5 TFL 6 INT 1 FF 2 TD
So Troy Stoudermire WR 6 tackles 26-286-2 rec 31 yd rush 82-2090 KR 25.5 avg
So Gary Tinsley LB 20 tackles 2.5 TFL 1 sack
RSFr Kevin Whaley RB 325 yd rush 1-6 rec
RSFr D.L. Wilhite DE 3 tackles 2 TFL 2 sacks 1 FF 2 FR 1TD

Moses Alipate QB RS
Bryant Allen WR 3 yd rush 5-45 rec 6-73 PR
Josh Campion OL RS
Hayo Carpenter WR 17 yd rush 2-42 rec 3-88 KR
Michael Carter DB 11 tackles 1 TFL 1 sack 1 FF
Matt Garin DE RS
Kendall GM DE RS
Ra'shede Hageman TE RS
Eric Jacques DL RS
Victor Keise WR RS
Kerry Lewis DB RS
Hasan Lipscomb RB JUCO
Brooks Michel OL RS
Ed Olson OL RS
Dan Orseske P 9-401 Punt RS
Nick Rengel FB RS
Joey Searcy DT RS
Brent Singleton LB RS
Kenneth Watkins DB RS
Jeff Wills OL 12 games 12 starts
 

I'm not sure how to read it, which is in reality why I don't have a great response. I think I was initially miffed that things like didn't contribute. The better the players you have on your scout team the better your first team should get. Did we get to bowl games b/c these guys who "didn't contribute" worked their ass off? Or if they were better we would have won more games?

I guess I struggle with the out right label of something like "failure".
 

I don't hold the 2006 recruiting class against Mason too much. Maturi left him with as a lame duck until January 2006. Pretty tough to put together a solid class at that point.
 

monk10 said:
I'm not sure how to read it, which is in reality why I don't have a great response. I think I was initially miffed that things like didn't contribute. The better the players you have on your scout team the better your first team should get. Did we get to bowl games b/c these guys who "didn't contribute" worked their ass off? Or if they were better we would have won more games?

I guess I struggle with the out right label of something like "failure".
Click to expand...

I didn't mean "didn't contribute" in a malicious sense -- I meant they never made a meaningful impact in a game. Some guys who are on the team never saw the light of day on the football field. That doesn't mean they don't work hard, and it doesn't mean they are a failure. It might mean the coaches misidentified them when they were recruiting -- I'm sure they're nice guys but I don't think we want to give scholarships to people to run a scout team for 4-5 years. Maybe they were instrumental to team chemistry (a la Kevin Payton on the BB team) or were very useful on the scout team...I know these things aren't all black and white.
 

Like I said I was initially miffed. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. However, I will once again disagree. People who are given scholarships that are pretty good (could have played MaC or Sunbelt easily), but got beat out by a better player doesn't necessarily mean we handed out a scholarship to the wrong person.

Things we don't know: Next year's recruiting class, injuries, late developing abilities, etc.

Either way, like I said I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
 

DarrenTheGreek said:
I don't hold the 2006 recruiting class against Mason too much. Maturi left him with as a lame duck until January 2006. Pretty tough to put together a solid class at that point.
Click to expand...

Maturi should have fired Mason then and there. To me (and I could easily be wrong), it looked like pure power play on the part of Mason. I think that was the first time he had negotiated with Maturi and he may have been out to establish who had the upper hand. Mason had some chips and used them wisely, but Maturi's continuing to stay at the table screwed the program a bit.

I don't want it to sound like I thought Mason was this terrible coach, but I always thought he treated Minnesota like we were so lucky to have him. Never cared for his attitude. Treated us like football "flyover country."

eker, I didn't take exception to the "didn't contribute" comments. I think I understand where you are going with it. These guys all earned scholarships and to do that, you have to be a good football player. For whatever reason--and there are a lot of possible reasons good, bad, and in-between--it didn't happen for them at the University of Minnesota.

As I pointed out in my response, a fair number of these athletes found a new football home and are contributing there.
 

AhliBobwa said:
Great post! This really puts into perspective the uphill climb and relatively bare cupboard Brewster inherited.
Click to expand...

Which continues to make it a head scratcher that more of Brewster's recruits haven't been contributing. I don't buy the strawman that it takes kids time to mature/develop and that seniors always start or team cohesiveness is ruined - there are plenty of young kids contributing at good programs throughout the country. If there is nothing on the depth chart in front of the Brew recruits, which from the list provided above clearly seems to be the case, then they should have been able to move up more quickly than they have in most cases IMO.
 

Like I said in an early thread, the one trait I really like about Brewster is has continued strategy to invest in this team. Continually making choices that hurt now but have a payoff later. Red shirting and forcing kids to learn the system before they play will pay off in huge ways, but it hurts in the short term as some of our best talent can't see the field.
 

Schnoodler said:
Like I said in an early thread, the one trait I really like about Brewster is has continued strategy to invest in this team. Continually making choices that hurt now but have a payoff later. Red shirting and forcing kids to learn the system before they play will pay off in huge ways, but it hurts in the short term as some of our best talent can't see the field.
Click to expand...

Exactly, good programs redshirt most of their freshmen. Look at our 09 class, all redshirted except for Carter, Allen, Wills and Carpenter.
I also don't buy the fact that Brewster's recruits haven't been producing and playing. Look at the stats, not all of them are starting, but most of the 08 class have made meaningful contributions to the last two years. There are a ton of guys who have played enough now to have a breakout season next year.
Tinsley, Cooper, Wilhite, Kirksey, Edwards, Carter, Stoudemire, Mcknight, Green, Whaley, Gray, Eskridge, Reeves, Dandridge all have gotten a taste of action or have played minutes in big games. All could break out next year, most likely it will be a mixed bag.
Then we have all of the RSFr. Guys like Hageman, Garin, KGM, Keise, Singleton, Watkins, K. Lewis, Michel, Olson, Orseske, Rengel could all play next year in certain situations.
THEN you have the incoming guys, Green,C Lewis, Bouie, Erye, who knows who else can also contribute. Many will RS, and the cycle continues, and builds, and the program grows.
The amount of young talent is almost overwhelming, and from this group will emerge the next generation of Gopher stars, the next faces of the program, etc.
 

Clyde Tester said:
Which continues to make it a head scratcher that more of Brewster's recruits haven't been contributing. I don't buy the strawman that it takes kids time to mature/develop and that seniors always start or team cohesiveness is ruined - there are plenty of young kids contributing at good programs throughout the country. If there is nothing on the depth chart in front of the Brew recruits, which from the list provided above clearly seems to be the case, then they should have been able to move up more quickly than they have in most cases IMO.
Click to expand...

plenty of young guys contributed on this team too, especially on defense. just because their names weren't at the top of the depth chart doesn't mean they didn't do anything. cooper, kirksey, edwards, wilhite, tinsley, and carter all saw significant playing time, even at critical times of the game. add in gray, mcknight, green, whaley, stoudemire on offense, and i would say quite a few brewster recruits contributed this year. this is why i am very optimistic going into next year
 

what makes me scratch my head is

Originally Posted by Clyde Tester View Post
Which continues to make it a head scratcher that more of Brewster's recruits haven't been contributing. I don't buy the strawman that it takes kids time to mature/develop and that seniors always start or team cohesiveness is ruined - there are plenty of young kids contributing at good programs throughout the country. If there is nothing on the depth chart in front of the Brew recruits, which from the list provided above clearly seems to be the case, then they should have been able to move up more quickly than they have in most cases IMO.


Was it not a true freshman and a red shirt freshman that combined on the touchdown that put us ahead of SDSU. Did we not have a Freshman make Phil Steele s All Freshman team?

Did our sophs not have great numbers on offense and defense

Was it not our true freshmen quarter back that was the talk of the big 10 who caught a pass from the great Eric Decker...

What makes me scratch my head is what logical explanation you have for such an asinine observation
 

gopher pops said:
Originally Posted by Clyde Tester View Post
Which continues to make it a head scratcher that more of Brewster's recruits haven't been contributing. I don't buy the strawman that it takes kids time to mature/develop and that seniors always start or team cohesiveness is ruined - there are plenty of young kids contributing at good programs throughout the country. If there is nothing on the depth chart in front of the Brew recruits, which from the list provided above clearly seems to be the case, then they should have been able to move up more quickly than they have in most cases IMO.


Was it not a true freshman and a red shirt freshman that combined on the touchdown that put us ahead of SDSU. Did we not have a Freshman make Phil Steele s All Freshman team?

Did our sophs not have great numbers on offense and defense

Was it not our true freshmen quarter back that was the talk of the big 10 who caught a pass from the great Eric Decker...

What makes me scratch my head is what logical explanation you have for such an asinine observation
Click to expand...

Wow, Pops, pretty harsh reaction to what I'd say is a fair concern. It has been acknowledged in this thread that there weren't many young guys at the top of the depth chart this year, especially on defense. If that's because they aren't yet ready (meaning playing well enough) to be at the top of the depth chart then so be it. But then it's fair to ask why. If they do have plenty of skill, but the coaches are too stubborn or unwilling to supplant seniors in the starting lineup, then it's worth also asking why that is?

I don't think anyone is questioning the contribution of some exciting young players - as a fan I'm very excited about some of the things I've seen from a few young guys - but it's fair to ask why they aren't starting if the "cupboard is bare" in the upper classes (using the OP's words).

All I'm trying to say is that we can't have it both ways as fans (or as a VERY invested fan in your case :p ). We can't on one hand say that the upper class talent is lacking (which is what the original poster was I think trying to point out) but then talk about how great all of our young talent is if they aren't on top of the depth chart. You have to understand that the logic doesn't make sense, right? Either the younger guys aren't good enough to rise to the top of the depth chart, or the coaching staff are for some reason choosing not to start their best players. Which one is it?

I'm with you Pops in that I think we've seen flashes of very good play from some of the newer talent on the roster. I'm just frustrated as a fan that either they haven't been rewarded for their efforts with a starting spot or conversely that the coaching staff is sticking with upperclassmen even though they're being outplayed by some younger guys.

This whole question of the young talent v. the upper class starters is one that we repeatedly rehash on this board and the same arguments are repeatedly made. I just don't buy the logic that I usually see. Don't we as fans have to believe that the coaches are going to play their best players? If not, why not? If so, are the best players really all of the seniors from the "dud" Mason classes?

BTW Pops, I'm hurt you never responded to my PM asking for your thoughts on another topic...I appreciate your insight and don't have the first idea why you've chosen to go after me with name-calling. :confused:
 

Clyde Tester said:
All I'm trying to say is that we can't have it both ways as fans (or as a VERY invested fan in your case :p ). We can't on one hand say that the upper class talent is lacking (which is what the original poster was I think trying to point out) but then talk about how great all of our young talent is if they aren't on top of the depth chart.
Click to expand...

I wanted to point out the attrition and lack of senior presence our team next year will have. We had decent senior leadership this year, in my opinion. Next year, I expect Brewster's recruits to step up. I wouldn't expect talented recruits to step in and contribute in major ways as freshmen and sophomores (there are always exceptions). I'm glad Brewster had the discipline to redshirt many of them.

Basically, I agree with you to a point. Just because Brew's recruits were not predominating the depth charts doesn't mean they aren't talented and promising. I really do think they need time to acclimate to the system and mature their bodies to be ready for the pounding at this level. I think we will see that next year.
 

clyde, my response would be that you can't throw them out there all at once. You red-shirt as many as you can and then start inserting them into more and more game situations as they become more experienced. I think Brewster has brought in better classes and he has brought them along slowly. That's why you need to give head coaches five years.
 

50PoundHead said:
clyde, my response would be that you can't throw them out there all at once. You red-shirt as many as you can and then start inserting them into more and more game situations as they become more experienced. I think Brewster has brought in better classes and he has brought them along slowly. That's why you need to give head coaches five years.
Click to expand...

I agree. In an ideal world darn near every Freshman that comes in will redshirt - it means you've got strong talent and depth ahead of them and you are in a position to allow your players to grow with the program. Right now things are sort of a mish mash as you say - some kids are getting more PT/opportunity than others.

Part of the dilemma I'm sure is that Brewster understands he needs to win games - he knows his seat is at least warm. So as a coach he is torn - there might be young guys he could and should play, but the younger guys might be more prone to the occasional mistake or mental error. So instead he relies a bit more on the more experienced guys who might not be as fast or athletic but they know the system and in theory are a "safer" play as victories are concerned.

I am very much looking forward to this season to see who really steps up as I think there are some good athletes just waiting for their opportunity - and to see other guys grow as players and sharpen their skills. For example, Pops has said more than once he is amazed by the progress he sees in his son - as a fan that makes me excited to see what is possible next season.
 

I think you're missing it clyde. The guys playing aren't without talent. They may not have as much, but they are talented. The combination of experience and talent makes them the better option. Brew is not playing it safe, that's just how it really works. What you want are highly talented athletes with alot of experience. Right now the talent difference doesn't outweigh the experience difference. You and others seems to think there's this weird avoidance of putting the best team on the field. The truth of the matter is that you are discounting the value of experience and strength training. It matters a great deal at this level.
 

Clyde, I must have misunderstood your first couple of posts on the thread. I agree with you. I wish Brewster would have steered away from JUCO kids altogether and taken his lumps in his first two seasons, but he's one competitive guy and I think given the way he came into the job and the level of success that Mason had enjoyed (middling, but over .500), he wanted to go to a bowl last season at all costs. I don't know if that is going to help him or hurt him in the long run.
 

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