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SHGopher said:
One of Minnesota's "accomplishments" is NEARLY beating a string of good teams like Purdue, Wisconsin, and Illinois. Close, so close. Gophers are right there.

So no NCAA tournament but they can play in that mix.

Plus nearly beat Missouri, Iowa.... Did beat others pretty good like Ohio State.
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If only.... there is a decent chance that a nice but not stunning finish would leave us all wondering where we would be at if we closed out Iowa, Missouri and Wisky. Those were the ones we should have won- but didn't.
 


bga1 said:
It is sure shaping up that, based on the lack of merit in our schedule, we probably only have 2 routes in:

1. Win 5 in a row starting now and hopefully there is 3 quad 1 wins in that stretch. That route still is not a sure thing.
2. Win 4 in a row in the BTT
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Agree. Winning out now to the BTT final, and we might get in, but no sure thing.
 

1-7 in quad 1. We really don't have any great wins. 3 good wins basically and yah a disgusting NC
EasyThere Pilgrim said:
So if we win at Northwestern...and we advance farther in the conference tournament than the teams we're tied with...those teams should all leapfrog us??

Those teams all have such impressive non-conference wins??
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EasyThere Pilgrim said:
So Iowa, Nebraska, & Northwestern beat NOBODY in the non-conference.

Michigan State beat Baylor...but lost to James Madison, Duke, & Arizona.

Wisconsin beat Marquette & Virginia...but lost to Tennessee, Providence, & Arizona.

If the Gophers finish strong...I don't think the above results warrant leapfrogging.

NOTE: I'm not basing my opinion on computers.
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You make good points if the committee is going to use eye test and how teams are playing at the end of the year. However, our conference schedule with only seeing some of the top teams once will hurt us in the end. Non conference really should not be a factor unless it becomes a H2H factor. Those were played over 2.5 months ago. Teams in March are not the same as they were in Nov./Dec. Had we played some Quad 1 games early in the year, our record is likely worse.

MN is 10th in conference NET, not going to happen without 4-5 wins over the next two weeks.

With the portal I think non-conference should be used less to determine the field.

No perfect way to do it.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
No perfect way to do it.
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Amen! That's a point that can never be stated too often.

The way they "do it" is mostly observable though. Whatever kind of system you have, people can adjust to it if it is mostly transparent.

I've stated many times that I am not "angry" about the nonconference schedule because I understood the intent of it and I never expected the team to be good enough for the NCAA tournament anyway but the schedule's effects on NET clearly are observable this season if one has been following throughout the season. The schedulers for next season can't claim ignorance.
 
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EasyThere Pilgrim said:
So Iowa, Nebraska, & Northwestern beat NOBODY in the non-conference.

Michigan State beat Baylor...but lost to James Madison, Duke, & Arizona.

Wisconsin beat Marquette & Virginia...but lost to Tennessee, Providence, & Arizona.

If the Gophers finish strong...I don't think the above results warrant leapfrogging.

NOTE: I'm not basing my opinion on computers.
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In my semi computer world, Purdue isn’t “nobody.” Cats beat them at home in December. Or do December games not count?
 

MaxyJR1 said:
You make good points if the committee is going to use eye test and how teams are playing at the end of the year. However, our conference schedule with only seeing some of the top teams once will hurt us in the end. Non conference really should not be a factor unless it becomes a H2H factor. Those were played over 2.5 months ago. Teams in March are not the same as they were in Nov./Dec. Had we played some Quad 1 games early in the year, our record is likely worse.

MN is 10th in conference NET, not going to happen without 4-5 wins over the next two weeks.

With the portal I think non-conference should be used less to determine the field.

No perfect way to do it.
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Agreed. All I'm saying is that my preference is that NCAA look at everything.
 




tjgopher said:
Kind of interesting on Iowa and Ohio State...they definitely want Minnesota to keep winning. If MN moves into Top 75 (at #77) right now, then the Iowa win at Carver against us and the OSU win in Columbus against us would add a Quad 1 wins to their resumes. Somewhat unique chance for both to bolster the resume without having to step foot on the court.
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Wow, I didn't even notice that Ohio State is supposedly still in the hunt.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Unfortunately, we're the team that has played NOBODY.

Iowa has beaten Seton Hall, and has 3 very respectable losses(Creighton, OU and Iow State)

Nebraska has won at Kansas State. And had a very respectable loss to Creighton.

NW has beaten Dayton. And yes they do have the terrible Chicago State loss.

Nebraska has FIVE wins better than our best win OOC. As does Michigan State. And that doesn't even touch on the fact that Iowa and Michigan State have 4 Q1 wins. NW has 5. And we've got 1.

We played the worst OOC in the country and still managed 2 losses against that schedule. It was a terrible non-conference performance from a "getting selected to the tournament" perspective. And we lost to the top 3 teams in the league(from NET perspective)
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The key word is LEAPFROGGING.

I don't think any of that is cause for leapfrogging. Like if the Gophers finish 11-9 and do better than them in the B1G Tourney.

Tiebreaks, yes. But not leapfrogging.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
The key word is LEAPFROGGING.

I don't think any of that is cause for leapfrogging. Like if the Gophers finish 11-9 and do better than them in the B1G Tourney.

Tiebreaks, yes. But not leapfrogging.
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Well you can think what you want and be wrong. Conference record doesn't mean anything. It's your full body of work. You can't just exclude the OOC schedule because you want too.
 





EasyThere Pilgrim said:
So Iowa, Nebraska, & Northwestern beat NOBODY in the non-conference.

Michigan State beat Baylor...but lost to James Madison, Duke, & Arizona.

Wisconsin beat Marquette & Virginia...but lost to Tennessee, Providence, & Arizona.

If the Gophers finish strong...I don't think the above results warrant leapfrogging.

NOTE: I'm not basing my opinion on computers.
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This is a great snippet of information for interpreting the season, for context, I think.

Also, gives great feedback for the choices made for opponents in non-conference games.

One path is to punt during non-conference with useless easy games, and another path is to schedule harder but beatable teams where you may lose.
 
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leib0039 said:
1-7 in quad 1. We really don't have any great wins. 3 good wins basically and yah a disgusting NC
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And now the grinding of teeth begins. But but but Nebraska! Iowa!!

Bobo's praised the OOC schedule as a must, now that it is a reason for not getting in the NCAA, the bobo's want it both ways.

NIT is fine for season three. Until it isn't.

NCAA is the goal, each and every season. Just win.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Amen! That's a point that can never be stated too often.

The way they "do it" is mostly observable though. Whatever kind of system you have, people can adjust to it if it is mostly transparent.

I've stated many times that I am not "angry" about the nonconference schedule because I understood the intent of it and I never expected the team to be good enough for the NCAA tournament anyway but the schedule's effects on NET clearly are observable this season if one has been following throughout the season. The schedulers for next season can't claim ignorance.
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I doubt if the schedulers for this season are claiming ignorance about anything. They intentionally went with a weak schedule to allow a last place team the previous year to develop a team with eight new players. The objective of that pre-conference schedule was clearly to prepare the team to be competitive in the conference. The strategy worked.

Nobody on the planet was concerned in November that a weak non-conference schedule would ruin our shot at the Tournament. The fact it is now impacting our situation is simply testament to the enormous jump the team has made this year.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Agreed. All I'm saying is that my preference is that NCAA look at everything.
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We have many threads here wondering about what ifs and the tournament. The simple fact is the tournament selection committee uses a lazy and idiotic methodology in selection.

Computer data is bullshiit. You can't compare a team's strength in March with a game played in November, especially now that most teams have new transfer players every year and need ten games to feel things out.

The debate here is not whether the Gophers make the tournament; they won't barring the auto bid via winning the BTT. A better debate is whether the NCAA Tournament will remain a joke ordered by computer data or a test of the best teams.
 

Dakota2 said:
We have many threads here wondering about what ifs and the tournament. The simple fact is the tournament selection committee uses a lazy and idiotic methodology in selection.

Computer data is bullshiit. You can't compare a team's strength in March with a game played in November, especially now that most teams have new transfer players every year and need ten games to feel things out.

The debate here is not whether the Gophers make the tournament; they won't barring the auto bid via winning the BTT. A better debate is whether the NCAA Tournament will remain a joke ordered by computer data or a test of the best teams.
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I disagree. If we return our nucleus in 2024/2025 and beat a few high-profile opponents that start slow as the transfers gel, I'd want to be rewarded for that come March.

It hurts us this year, but the teams that achieve some continuity year after year shouldn't be punished for beating schools relying heavily on the transfer portal.
 

Dakota2 said:
I doubt if the schedulers for this season are claiming ignorance about anything. They intentionally went with a weak schedule to allow a last place team the previous year to develop a team with eight new players. The objective of that pre-conference schedule was clearly to prepare the team to be competitive in the conference. The strategy worked.

Nobody on the planet was concerned in November that a weak non-conference schedule would ruin our shot at the Tournament. The fact it is now impacting our situation is simply testament to the enormous jump the team has made this year.
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yeah, team was picked to finish last in the conference, making the NCAA tournament wasn't even on the radar coming into the season. The non-conf schedule was setup the way it was to give the new faces time to gel and figure out how to play together.

Coyle has already said it will be tougher next year, obviously if this year's non-conf schedule was an every year thing that would be an issue, but it won't be.
 

Picked to finish last, blah blah blah. Give new faces time to gel.

How in the world do teams "gel" in the non con playing tougher schedules? How?

Refusing to excuse losing. New players is yet another excuse.
 

Dakota2 said:
We have many threads here wondering about what ifs and the tournament. The simple fact is the tournament selection committee uses a lazy and idiotic methodology in selection.

Computer data is bullshiit. You can't compare a team's strength in March with a game played in November, especially now that most teams have new transfer players every year and need ten games to feel things out.

The debate here is not whether the Gophers make the tournament; they won't barring the auto bid via winning the BTT. A better debate is whether the NCAA Tournament will remain a joke ordered by computer data or a test of the best teams.
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You also have teams that tested early in the season and are now coasting headed into the tournament. There will be upsets in conference tournaments because of this. So beating a team in a conference tournament that is already secured in the NCAA tournament can be seen as flawed.

36 At-Large berths are available after the 32 Auto-Matic berths. Having Mid-Major conferences in the tournament is already making it a joke if you really want the best 68 teams.

Again nothing is perfect when there isn't balance in scheduling.

Pro sports provide the balance people seem to want college sports to adopt.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
You also have teams that tested early in the season and are now coasting headed into the tournament. There will be upsets in conference tournaments because of this. So beating a team in a conference tournament that is already secured in the NCAA tournament can be seen as flawed.

36 At-Large berths are available after the 32 Auto-Matic berths. Having Mid-Major conferences in the tournament is already making it a joke if you really want the best 68 teams.

Again nothing is perfect when there isn't balance in scheduling.

Pro sports provide the balance people seem to want college sports to adopt.
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Yeah, no matter what you do with the NCAA tournament there will always be teams that get in who shouldn't and teams that get left out that should have been included.

I like that the mid-majors get an automatic berth, makes the tournament fun when you get those teams that come out of nowhere and make a run.
 

Dakota2 said:
We have many threads here wondering about what ifs and the tournament. The simple fact is the tournament selection committee uses a lazy and idiotic methodology in selection.

Computer data is bullshiit. You can't compare a team's strength in March with a game played in November, especially now that most teams have new transfer players every year and need ten games to feel things out.

The debate here is not whether the Gophers make the tournament; they won't barring the auto bid via winning the BTT. A better debate is whether the NCAA Tournament will remain a joke ordered by computer data or a test of the best teams.
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All teams have new players. Why didn't the other teams need time to "feel things out'?

The computer data isn't perfect. But the schedule played by one team to the next is vastly different. You need to have some basis for evaluation, more than just the eye test. The Gophers are likely one of the best 68 teams now. But the entirety of the season matters, as it should. They can still play themselves into the tournament.

Nobody (apparently including Ben Johnson) expected the Gophers to be in the tournament at the start of the year and the schedule was set up that way. Hopefully he doesn't make that same mistake in the future.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
36 At-Large berths are available after the 32 Auto-Matic berths. Having Mid-Major conferences in the tournament is already making it a joke if you really want the best 68 teams.
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Having mid-majors in the tournament is what gives it appeal, in my view. I don't need the see the 10th place B1G team play against the 11th place SEC team in round one.
 

golfing18now said:
All teams have new players. Why didn't the other teams need time to "feel things out'?

The computer data isn't perfect. But the schedule played by one team to the next is vastly different. You need to have some basis for evaluation, more than just the eye test. The Gophers are likely one of the best 68 teams now. But the entirety of the season matters, as it should. They can still play themselves into the tournament.

Nobody (apparently including Ben Johnson) expected the Gophers to be in the tournament at the start of the year and the schedule was set up that way. Hopefully he doesn't make that same mistake in the future.
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Well, daka$$ will be along to dismiss any talk like this.
 

Mn is the only team that just can't figure things out. Other teams bring in lots of new faces and don't make the excuses.

Mn is the victim, according to gh fans.

Mn can't. Can't.

Any questions why Mn hadn't won in decades?
 

Dakota2 said:
I doubt if the schedulers for this season are claiming ignorance about anything. They intentionally went with a weak schedule to allow a last place team the previous year to develop a team with eight new players. The objective of that pre-conference schedule was clearly to prepare the team to be competitive in the conference. The strategy worked.

Nobody on the planet was concerned in November that a weak non-conference schedule would ruin our shot at the Tournament. The fact it is now impacting our situation is simply testament to the enormous jump the team has made this year.
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Lots of us were concerned about the weak a$$ ooc schedule when it was announced.

Lies. From. Dak.
 

golfing18now said:
All teams have new players. Why didn't the other teams need time to "feel things out'?

The computer data isn't perfect. But the schedule played by one team to the next is vastly different. You need to have some basis for evaluation, more than just the eye test. The Gophers are likely one of the best 68 teams now. But the entirety of the season matters, as it should. They can still play themselves into the tournament.

Nobody (apparently including Ben Johnson) expected the Gophers to be in the tournament at the start of the year and the schedule was set up that way. Hopefully he doesn't make that same mistake in the future.
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I think that is his exact point. That many teams take time to gel now with the way things are, not just the Gophers.
 

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